China loses unique animal

[DPRKPTboat]

Deecember 13th has carried sad news for China. The Yaghtze river dolphin, or Bajii is now believed to be extinct, according to the latest survey. China has lost one of its most unique pieces of natural heritage. This species has existed for 20 million years, and has now met its end. Hopefully this will spur China to conserve its over unique animals, and prevent other sad losses like this being repated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6179407.stm

[FuManChu]

This is what happens when a country puts uncontrolled economic growth before pollution control. That is not say the species would have been saved if polluters were cracked down on, but if China took environmental policies more seriously then it would have had a better chance.

All I can say is, what's the point of having fast growth if future generations (apart from the rich) are going to be too ill to enjoy it?

[eecsmaster]

Someone obviously never looked into Western industrialization...

[Gollevainen]

Western indrustialation has also made its share on destroying the earth, but its shame, as nowadays when the popular knowlidge should know better and the scientific knowlidge about the ecosystems are almoust basic stuff, that these sort of things happen:mad:

But this is common proplem for all devolping world, including South America and Africa as well, but also, for the western countries as well, as we can see on how US gov. is so keen to wider its oil industry in Alaska...

[Finn McCool]

as we can see on how US gov. is so keen to wider its oil industry in Alaska...

And everywhere else. A couple of years ago they put this intiative on the ballot to allow lots of oil drilling platforms off the California coast. There are already quite a few, and the people here didn't like the idea. It was voted down.

[FuManChu]

Someone obviously never looked into Western industrialization...

So you're saying all countries should use that as a model for their development? If that's the case then we're all doomed to a very grim future. As Golle says today we fully understand the danger of pollution and what it can do to the environment, so there are no excuses for not taking action.

[SteelBird]

Save the dophins before they die!!!

Since the Chinese fresh water dophins have extincted, it's useless for further argue. There is another kind of fresh water dophins in Cambodia's river, the Mekong river, in Kratie province. According to the National Dophins Association, there are still 200 of them living there. The dophins always die in accident such as mis-fishing. Save the dophins before they die!!!

[Kampfwagen]

The Chinese River Dolphin was not exactly unique. There were at least three species of River Dolphin (such as the Bolo of the Amazon, also criticaly endangered).

But when I heard of this, my heart sank. They were such beautiful creatures.

I only hope they mis-counted.

[eecsmaster]

*****************

NO insulting other members, he have his point, you have your's. talk it out like adults there's no need to insult other just because they don't agree with you - PiSigma

No insults! Asking for a ban?

[FuManChu]

So Fu, what do you propose? An economy based on tourism? Sure we know ALL about pollution now, but can we really do anything about it?

For a start prolific polluters could actually be punished according to China's laws. Local authorities sacrifice enforcement of environmental law for growth. There is no reason why China needs to have such very, very high growth. In fact enforcing regulations could take the edge off the high growth level and reduce it to a more sustainable level. Or by cleaning up China not much money may be lost at all, given environmental damage costs several percentage points of total GDP growth a year - can't remember specifics.

You wouldn't need to prosecute everyone at the same time, only some of the biggest offenders to send a message to the rest to clean up their act. These days it is possible to reduce pollution at source if you but invest in it. How about a little state help with cheap loans, or whatever, for companies that invest in polluting-reducing systems - on the other hand people that refuse to upgrade could be restricted in what loans they can get when on what terms, maybe with higher interest rates. There are many things that could be done. It's not a question of polluting massive amounts of crap all the time or shut down - there is a way in between.

But if China puts off such change to save money, it will have to pay a lot, lot more in the future to clear up the mess. Then the economy may falter because the environment is under so much pressure.

Some pain now to offset serious, unavoidable future problems - that's a no-brainer to anyone with a brain.

So the poor kids in China can either have their beloved river run yellow, or starve, and I honestly don't believe that you have the right or the IQ to throw such a blanket statement at such a complex issue. Then again, this is so typical of your ignorant-ness.

Typical apologist over-exaggeration. No one has to starve, or are you saying China's economy is based on mass pollution? Besides I would say those poor kids would prefer to have a healthy future free of cancer and other afflictions caused by pollution for them and their children by taking a risk there might not be quite as much work in the future. At least they wouldn't be condemning future generations to a ghastly life.

What would you prefer - potentially being hungry or potential dying a slow, painful death with no medical care to make it more tolerable? Oh, wait, you don't live in the countryside where they have all those problems so you wouldn't care, would you?

[eecsmaster]

"Oh, wait, you don't live in the countryside where they have all those problems so you wouldn't care, would you?"

do you detect a sense of supreme irony?

[FuManChu]

do you detect a sense of supreme irony?

Not really, because I do actually care about people regardless of where they live. Just because someone lives in a village doesn't mean they are less important than those that live in the city, but that's the overwhelming impression I got from you, giving your nonsense talk about how if people aren't able to pollute as much as they like, the poor are going to die of starvation - conveniently forgetting about those people who are dying today from lax enforcement of anti-pollution laws. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how many people die in China as a result of pollution and how many die as a result of authorities taking action against polluting companies.......

I note you didn't come up with any alternative ideas as to how China should address its pollution problem. Guess you don't have much of an imagination and just follow what the other sheep do.

[Gollevainen]

Now there, Fu, dont call Eccmaster a sheep...and otherwise you two are the last persons in this forum that has afford to test how big the leach is.

Now dolphins are happy creature, so lets remain happy ourself, shall we?

[eecsmaster]

missing the point as always. I never made any direct suggestions to the problem, because I at least grasp the concept that such a complex problem cannot be solved by merely speaking one's opinion at an online forum. All I said is that you, who have almost no knowledge of the situation, cannot make blanket statements like the ones you have just made.

Sure you can care about people all the damn you want, but that doesn't mean you will offer anything close to a solution. Such emotional response like "oh I care about people regardless of where they live" while you live in the comfort of a heated home on the other side of an ocean shows just how biased and ignorant you are.

Many of the best solutions are engineering ones, and you obviously are not an engineering, so next time you bring up some teary-eye liberal arts response like the ones you've just made, remember, talking alone solves nothing.

by the way, I don't live in China.

[FuManChu]

remember, talking alone solves nothing.

Then what is the point in coming to an internet forum like this? Why do people come here and exchange ideas about the Chinese and other militaries? Why do they put forward opinions, ask for others, etc? According to you, talking solves/affects nothing, so why do people bother coming here? Why do they talk about something they have no control over as if they did? Congratulations, you've just presented a great argument why this place shouldn't exist.......

Come on, the whole point of a forum is to put forward ideas by talking about issues. Don't try to imply it isn't - it's what we do here!!!!! :)

[Finn McCool]

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]and otherwise you two are the last persons in this forum that has afford to test how big the leach is.COLOR]

Hey Golle what's "the leach?":confused: :confused:

[FuManChu]

Hey Golle what's "the leach?":confused: :confused:

I'm not sure I want to know. :rofl:

[Gollevainen]

Leach= leash, written as it's spelled by nature finnish speaker...;)

[sumdud]

China never put them into zoos???! :confused:

Well, anyone know how many Pearl River ones are left?

No remaining corpses?
With pollution up and overfishing, those dolphins would be dead sooner or later....

I wonder if dolphins and such will ever end up as a sea monster 10000 years from now like that of Lake Champlain. That'd be nice.......

[SampanViking]

Well we can all hope that Labs are taking and preserving Genetic material for these and other endnagered species so that a return might be possible later.

In the meantime, the best way to beat the Pollution problem is to get through the dirtiest stages of Industrialisation as quickly as possible. this means building an exconmomy as quickly as possible that has the resources to pay and enact the cleaning and protection programs.

Not an easy option, but real solutions seldom are.

[Kampfwagen]

Now dolphins are happy creature, so lets remain happy ourself, shall we?

Not to insult your moderating abilities, but I think that this dolphin is anything but happy right now.

sumdud, for Aquatic animals to be placed in a Zoo or Aquarium, especially ones that were so rare as the Chinese River Dolphin, the risks far outweighed the rewards. Ten to one says that any captive examples would have been very hard to maintain in captivity. But I like that idea. There are already several reported 'Sea Monsters' in the Rivers of China, such as Giant Red Salmon and Giant Frogs. So maybe the River Dolphin will join the ranks of the Tasmanian Tiger and Mokele-Embembe. No doubt people will report it for years to come.

Sampan. It is a lot more complicated than it seems, but I bet you already gathered that. Cloning is a risky procedure with a high attrition rate and the offspring usually have nervous issues later in life (Dolly died of neurological complications, if I remember correctly). On top of that, you need to find a similar genetic relative to carry the offspring in the case of Extinct Animals. This can be very difficult, especially with mammals and most especially Aquatic Animals. And raising Aquatic Animals is very difficult in general. And to make sure they have all the material needed, they may need more than a simple hair or skin sample. They typically need either Sperm or an Egg, then fertilize that with the parent animal. It is then that a hybrid animal is created and, over various generations, eventually becomes the genetically 'pure' original breed. And best of all, it is all theoretical.

But I hope we manage to do it some day.

[planeman]

Now dolphins are happy creatureScientific evidence please;) Actually dolphins are one of the few animals believed to have sexual contact for purely recreational purposes, humans and chimps being the other obvious examples. :coffee:

I guess the Bajii should have been a bit more recreational?

[Gollevainen]

well it was a sarcastic comment pointing to the common entertainment idustry generalisation and known clisée of dolphins (and other levithans) to be "happy" or cheerfull beasts.