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crazyinsane105
05-03-2006, 09:08 PM
Chinese forces increased activity during Kargil crisis
NEW DELHI, APR 30 (PTI)
In remarks that are likely to reopen the debate on intelligence vis-a-vis the Kargil crisis, the then Army Chief says the possibility of a conventional conflict with regular Pakistani forces was consistently negated and that Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee also ignored his statement on the subject.

Gen V P Malik, who headed the force during the 1999 Kargil crisis, also brought in a new angle in his just-published book 'Kargil - from surprise to victory' that China made a "demonstrative support" to Pakistan at the height of the conflict that its forces almost sparked off a stand-off on the Sino-Indian border in Arunachal Pradesh.

He asserts that there were no intelligence reports to warn of the surprise Pakistani moves to infiltrate troops through wide gaps in defence.

"R&AW (external intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing) which was responsible for keeping track of the movement of Pakistani military units and for the order of battle of the Pakistani army formations, showed no accretion in the force level of the Force Commander Northern Areas (FCNA) in the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir during a period preceding the intrusion," Malik says in the book.

Intelligence Bureau had remained focused on Jehadi activities and its report had only implied that Jehadi inflitration could take place in the Kashmir valley or Dras-Kargil sector, he says.

"In none of these reports was there any hint of the impending military operation of infiltration with a view to occupying important mountain heights within the Indian territory," the General says. "Prior to the intrusion the FCNA had realigned the areas of responsibility of its brigades and moved the reserve battalion, usually based in Gilgit, to the LOC. RAW and military intelligence units in 3 infantry division did not notice these developments." The intelligence reports may have indicated an enchanced level of artilery fire exchange in Kargil during the forthcoming summer, but the possibility of a conventional conflict with regular Pakistani forces was consistently "negated".

Malik says even after the intrusion had been detected, the Brigade commander did not realise the seriousness of the situation dismissing the intruders as handful of militants and tasked the units accordingly.

Even visual aerial surveillance and aerial reconnaissance had failed failed to pick up some telltale signs of the massive intrusion.

The book says even after the intrusion had come to light, it was sought to be painted as infiltration and occupation of heights by Jehadi elements.

It was only after the Aviation Research Wing managing to photograph a Pakistani military helicopter flying over Indian territory in Kargil areas and interception of telephonic conversation between then Pakistani Army Chief Pervez Musharraf, at that time on a visit to Beijing, and his Chief of General Staff Mohd Aziz Khan had the contours of regular Pakistani troops involvement been brought home to Indian policy makers, it says.

The former army chief says at the spate of CCS meetings even after the telephone interception and fresh ground inputs, the RAW and IB chiefs were still persisting with giving the composition of intruders as 70 per cent regular army troops and 30 per cent jehadis. "I questioned this assessment and pointed out that all the evidence available with the army indicated that the intrusion was by the Pakistani army.

"The Prime Minister did not pay much attention to my statement and only the Secretary of the National Security Council Satish Chandra pointing to RAW and IB chief whispered to me General Malik inki bhi to laaj rakhni hai (we have to save their honour too).

"I consider this remark unforgettable," Malik writes.

On future whether there could be other Kargils in the making, he says the Pakistan army's nexus with radical Islamist and the Jammu and Kashmir militants has the potential to bring India and ***** tan to the brink of war again.

On the Chinese action, Malik says, "The People's Liberation army deployed troops in temporary posts in Chantze in West kameng district, resulting in a military standoff in the first week of July 1999" as Indian forces were in full scale operations to evict intruding Pakistani troops from the Kargil heights. "Chinese had inducted one company in the area opposite Chantze, with the rest of the battalion waiting in the wings," Malik discloses in the book.

He says it was not only at Kameng, but the Chinese army enhanced its level of activity along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh as well from where some of the forces had been thinned down to be redeployed in Kargil.

"This enhancement in PLA activities along the LAC coincided with the start of the conflict in Kargil" Malik says which at military level, indicated a demonstrative support to Pakistan.

Malik says this ran contrary to Beijing's assertions in recent years that it was pursuing an independent foreign policy and that its relations with Pakistan would not be at the cost of India.

The Chinese forces also made a show of force in Demchok, in eastern Ladakh, constructed a track from Spanggur to south end of Pangong lake and a track in Trigg heights.

Malik says the stand-off at Chantze continued throughout the Kargil crisis till the Chinese agreed to dismantle the additional temporary posts created and withdrew the troops by end of September. He says India also received intelligence reports that PLA's Director in the Department of Armament had visited Islamabad during the conflict to help Pakistan army overcome its critical deficencies in conventional armament, ammunition and equipment.

"Lack of road communication and vulnerability at Trigg Heights did not give us a particularly comfortable military posture," Malik says adding, Indian forces had increased vigilance to match the PLA patrolling to make sure that operational situation on the Sino-Indian border was not permitted to escalate.



Wow, I had no idea that China had done such actions during the Kargil period. And this is coming from a military general, not some journalist.




hhyapster
12-15-2007, 02:10 AM
No amount of conflict is justified in modern days for whatever reasons. The war will be wasteful in human lives, materials and esources. The basic interest of nation must be resolved over the table, best to serve the people of two warring factions.

Finn McCool
12-15-2007, 05:14 PM
I think that the Chinese government was concerned that the war could escalate and lead to large-scale conventional conflict between Pakistan and India, which would likely have ended in Pakistan's defeat. China probably wouldn't have entered the conflict but they wanted to discourage India escalation by making the Indians believe that a full-scale war with Pakistan would invlove China. Who knows, it might have worked.

sidewinder
12-15-2007, 07:58 PM
indian Army moves 6,000 troops to border with China

13 Dec 2007, 1956 hrs IST,PTI

NEW DELHI: Amid reports of intrusion by Chinese forces in Bhutan, the Army has moved more than 6,000 troops to the Sino-Indian border, close to tri-junction of India, Bhutan and China.

However, Army Chief Deepak Kapoor said that reported intrusions of Chinese forces in Bhutan was 'a matter between the two countries'.

The shifting of Army formations north of Nathu La comes in the wake of reports of Chinese troops coming close to the Siliguiri corridor. But Army authorities brush it aside, saying that Chinese forces have been coming close to the Dolam Plateau for over two decades as the boundary in the area is still to be defined.

Army officials described the movement from Jammu and Kashmir as "routine move-back" of troops to their original locations".

They said the forces being moved were all formations of the Kalimpong-based Army's 27 Mountain Division, which had gone for counter-insurgency operations in Jammu and Kashmir during Operation Parakaram in 2001.

According to Army sources, an entire brigade of the 27 Division and an additional battalion had been moved back over a period of three-four months, as situation in Jammu and Kashmir had "stabilised".

When asked whether Army was concerned about reported intrusions of Chinese army into Bhutan, Gen Kapoor, speaking on the sidelines of an Army seminar here, said it was a matter between Bhutan and China to solve.

"It is a matter between Bhutan and China to resolve. So, that is an issue at diplomatic level. I have nothing to say," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Army_moves_troops_to_border_with_China/articleshow/2620548.cms

Londo Molari
01-04-2008, 01:48 AM
The Kargil conflict was a disgusting conflict indeed... at the culmination of the pakistani/indian peace process, the pak army chief secretly started a conflict. That is why the Indians were unable to believe what was happening for so long. And when the pakistani government found out and fired him, he staged a coup and took over... disgusting. And shocking that something so absurd can happen in pakistan. He got so many people killed and almost started a full-scale war between two nuclear countries. But it seems like the psycho's ruling days are finally ending, and REAL peace in the region may be approaching.

I think there is tremendous potential in the near future when pak/indian relations improve once again... indian/chinese relations are already improving and pak/china relations are always strong. Its almost half the world's population, and working together, given time, they can surely become the new core of the economic world.

Amna Malik
01-05-2008, 01:42 PM
It is highly naive to claim that India would have won the war. India had to utilize 3 brigades to face off 2000 lightly armed troops. The 3 brigades also had air support and Smerch artillery batteries. In the significant amount of time, the 2000 lightly armed troops could still not be deterred. After the unilateral withdrawal from Kargil, the 2000 troops still held most of the peaks.

Kargil is seen as an eye-opener by all indian military brass. Logistics went wrong and command was faulty and big gaps were found in the Indians fighting capability.

The pakistani's never wanted to escalate the war, but the Indians knew that they could not possibly win without bringing out the big guns. The pakistani incursion was a direct response to Indian shelling along the neelum sector during the so called peace process that they were trying to take advantage of.

General Musharraf did the right thing in the entire pakistani militaries eyes in deterring the Indians from any aggression, escalated by the growing confidence in the modernisation of the indian armed forces. Bear in mind, before 1999, the pakistani armed forces were in a stagnant state technologically whilst the Indians had made great strides.

That gap is now slowly being closed and is forseen to overtake their capabilities technologically in the near future.

The indians lost around 3000 men during the conflict whilst losses on the pakistani side were around 800

Gollevainen
01-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Thread Closed. No Pakistan-india ranting under my watch!

Gollevainen
Super Moderator