Pla Test1

[savoer]

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/pic/2005-09-06/815841_978907571.jpg

[MIGleader]

ive seen this in the old forum. its a type 85 with era and other gadgets.

[Vanguard1688]

no its a type 59D

[savoer]

no its a type 59D

yes, as you say

[MIGleader]

sry, typo. i was thinking about the type 85 when i posted, so i accidentaly posted it. so whats the point again?

[sumdud]

The tank is a great improvement, but still is a long way from being a good MODERN tank. It has added armor, better 105 gun, NBC protection. But it relies heavily on ERA, and anyone can still kill it by kicking it in the azz.

I see not much potential in this thing when fighting openly as a MBT. I'd say though, it can do a lot when fighting in the cities and maybe in jungles. In most cities, roads are narrow, so most MBTs can't pass through. This little one can, however. And it can so ambush incoming tanks. And if there are soldiers with RPGs, the 59 can save itself if given a seond upgrade with racks installed.

[BrotherofSnake]

China needs to scrap this thing and get more t-98's.

[Obcession]

Well of course they need to scrap it and of course everyone wants more T98's, but it's not cost efficient.

[adeptitus]

Not all of PRC's borders require T-98's to secure. For an example, Mongolia's army is equipped with ~650 T-54/55 & T-62's, plus about a thousand older APC's (BMP-1, BTR-40/60). Burma only has ~80 Type-69-II's, and most of the former Soviet Republics are armed with old export variants of the T-72M (T-72A).

A modernized T-59D is prolly a good match to the T-72A/T-72M.

[MIGleader]

any rpg will whoop a 59d. it sucks, no matter how much new gear you put on it. you might as well scrap em, or sell em. if you can sell the 59 ds at a few thousand $ a piece, you would have alot of buyers.

i never knew mongolia had such a military

[sumdud]

well, don't racks help against HEAT? If you put racks around it, it's not easy for RPGs to touch it. Then again, China's not going to put them in the azz.........

I don't think the 59 can take a lot of pressure from an exploding ERA, though.

China isn't going to scrap all of them now. type 98s are much better, but also much more expensive, and it isn't needed on all borders.

Now that China is modernzing the type 59, it is the type 69s and then 79s that I think they should scrap first.

But yes, T-54/55 technology and upgrades are certainly wanted in many places, poor countries. Peru I know wants them.

[Battlemaster]

China need more modern tanks. the older generation tanks aren't very usefull anymore. that weak armor can be easily destroyed by an RPG 7. maybe the Mongolian border, but not the Idian border. they use more modern fighting armor and they have better equipment.

you must also think of western tanks. they are far more superior than the chinese tanks. for example the US, M1A2 Abrams and the German Leopard 2.

China need to focus on the future and build a superior tank to the western tanks.

[MIGleader]

tanks= battleship on wheels
the tank is out dated. china should concentrate more on ifvs, light apcs. vehicles more like the stryker.

tanks are million dollar machines that can be destroyed by a 50$ rpg. so why risk all that money?

[Battlemaster]

tanks are well arm and have great armor. and it isn't so easy to destroy it. see operation iraqi freedom. you need heavy armor to move on a battlefield. an apc isn't always the answer to an succes.

[rommel]

tanks= battleship on wheels
the tank is out dated. china should concentrate more on ifvs, light apcs. vehicles more like the stryker.

tanks are million dollar machines that can be destroyed by a 50$ rpg. so why risk all that money?

Well, Stryker is not better... It cost 600 million to Canada to buy only 76 Stryker, and these thing cannot sustain anything heavier than a caliber 7.62 machine gun.

The Stryker are millions dollars machine that can be destryoed by a 2$ machine gun bullet or a 10$ mine...

[sumdud]

If China decides to upgrade the old tanks, I'd say it's better to upgrade only the type 79 since it's the best old tank out there. The "D" upgrade on the 59D is great on most parts, but thr armour upgrade stinks..... I'd prefer giving it armor blocks (or armor triangles. I mean the ones fitted on the Leo2A6s. They are basically hollow pyramids, and they look great from my physics) that will be compatable with other tanks while being a long term defense. And the armor upgrade covers only the front........

I'd say that until China's roads get to the quality of the West and the size of America's, China should keep a few of these(with more armor!!!) as RRU city tanks.(given that there are no light tank developments) since MBTs aren't exactly very adaptable to narrow city alleys. And the centered guns exposes a lot of the tankwhile sneaking up a prey.

But otherwise, these tanks are useless.

I really wonder how good those triangles are though.
And maybe a new armor, composed of concrete/bricks(anti-HEAT), steel, lead and cadmium(you still have neutrons shooting thru the tank even w/ a NBC system.) with those triangles.

[Kampfwagen]

Well of course they need to scrap it and of course everyone wants more T98's, but it's not cost efficient.

Honestly, I think that if used correctly, a T-56 with some modifications to hull and turret could become an effective Urban Combat Vehicle for clearing out areas without sufficent armor.

[renmin]

When you think about it, the T-56 is really outdated, some 60s-70s technology. But a group can still take out your every day MBT in 1 salvo. as for IFVs and APCs, They are must haves for every army but not the most important. a army must have a equal balance of weapons. I think these old tanks shouldnt be scraped. They could come up as good backup. Yes China should get more T-99s but they are quite costly as mentioned before.

[crazyinsane105]

China should perform the Al Zarrar upgrade on their T-55 tanks. The Al Zarrar has a 125 mm gun (yeah, how the Pakistani engineers managed to make a T-55 chasis handle the recoil of a 125 mm gun is beyond me), ERA (although the newer Al Zarrars have a more advanced armor), and better fire control systems. I think that the Al Zarrar would be able to take many RPG hits, but I doubt it will survive a hit from a 125 mm gun. But then again, it is the most cost efficent method of upgrading the T-55's.

[MIGleader]

why though? china already has around 1500 type 96's. i beilive a 125mm gun version of the type 59 was already introduced to the export market, but the pla did not adopt it. i think china should keep building 96's to keep its tank force strong.

[crazyinsane105]

why though? china already has around 1500 type 96's. i beilive a 125mm gun version of the type 59 was already introduced to the export market, but the pla did not adopt it. i think china should keep building 96's to keep its tank force strong.

Well, if PLA has around 1500 Type 96's, then it would be reasonable not to spend a lot of money on the T-55's. I forgot PLA had that many Type 96 tanks.

[sumdud]

I find the Al-Zarrar upgrade really nice. If I actually upgrade 59/69/79s (They should've upgrade the 79s, not 59s......) into Al-Zarrar config, I would keep them until the day they really become fully dead. I wouldn't put a 125 on it though. The recoil can be a hemi, and if the loader doesn't get out of the way quick enough (Especially in such a small tank.) I'd keep the 105 instead.

If the Al-Zarrar can take a lot of RPGs, I'd say it fits in with an urban battle.
How much does it weigh?