The Military of Hong Kong (amusement)

[coolstorm]

just some amusement for people:

i am curious.
if hong kong had a military of its own, why would it be like?

would it be like the one of singapore's or a little stronger?

hong kong has gdp larger than singapore as a whole as well as on a per capita basis. if it is to devote 5 percent of its gdp to the military like singapore, would it have a slightly stronger military?

[jchu1988]

HK did have a reserve army when it was under the British control.

However, since 1997 when the Chinese army "moved in" to hk, i am not sure wherther the reserve was disbanded. The Army garrisoned in hk is not paid by the Hk government but the Chinese government.

[jwangyue]

just some amusement for people:

i am curious.
if hong kong had a military of its own, why would it be like?

would it be like the one of singapore's or a little stronger?

hong kong has gdp larger than singapore as a whole as well as on a per capita basis. if it is to devote 5 percent of its gdp to the military like singapore, would it have a slightly stronger military?

In the hyperthetical situation, I would imagine it would be more like the military of Singapore. Limited Ground, Naval, and Air asset suitable for laterial warfare.

[jchu1988]

if hk was ever attacked conventionally by another country, (only as an example admins and mods, dont erase my reply again) eg taiwan, the Chinese military will retaliate instead of the reserve force as the reserve force hasnt exactly got much to fight with.

[adeptitus]

just some amusement for people:
i am curious.
if hong kong had a military of its own, why would it be like?
would it be like the one of singapore's or a little stronger?
hong kong has gdp larger than singapore as a whole as well as on a per capita basis. if it is to devote 5 percent of its gdp to the military like singapore, would it have a slightly stronger military?

If Hong Kong was willing to spend 5% of its GDP on a military, itd have similiar budget to Taiwan/ROC's military. So whatever Taiwan could afford, HK can afford it too (but with fewer manpower avail).

Singapore spends 5% of its GDP on military because of a silly piss fight vs Malaysia. Maybe I shouldn't say that too loudly since I'm going there this week, LoL. If you look at other countries in the region, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Aus, etc., they only spend about 2-3% of GDP on military.

HK has the advantage of being bigger than SG, so it prolly has enough space to build military facilities to keep its military units at home. Singapore is smaller and has to send part of its air force overseas for training.

[Nethappy]

Why would Hong Kong want a Military in the frist place. I mean i can see why it had a reserve army when it was under the British control cos UK is in the other side of the world.

But since the reunited with China has a small garrisoned like the UK did in Hong Kong but they not going to do much. But it really stupid for any country ever threaten or attack Hong Kong, cos frist of all there are going to need to find a good reason, then think about how to deal with the few hundred thousand troops sitting rite next door.

Hong Kong dun need a military it has all the protection it need.

[akinkhoo]

Singapore spends 5% of its GDP on military because of a silly piss fight vs Malaysia. Maybe I shouldn't say that too loudly since I'm going there this week, LoL. If you look at other countries in the region, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Aus, etc., they only spend about 2-3% of GDP on military.

HK has the advantage of being bigger than SG, so it prolly has enough space to build military facilities to keep its military units at home. Singapore is smaller and has to send part of its air force overseas for training.

the reason singapore is sending planes overseas is not as much because of land but airspace, there is not enough room for every squadron to clock their flying hours and train their various operation (how are we gonna train a strike mission without places of land target, bomb our neighbours? err..)

also, we can learn much from other countries airforce while basing there. military exchanges cut our learning time on the latest technology and military hardware. i am in RSAF now and i am proud to be in the best airforce in ASEAN.

yes it is weird that HALF our landmass is covered by military bases, but hey, it is fun watching apaches flyby my windows while i am having my dinner. they sure are a beauty to watch, the engine sound they make are different from other heli, they are much deeper in pitch and not noisy.

Hong Kong dun need a military it has all the protection it need.
yup :D

[DPRKUnderground]

HK did have a reserve army when it was under the British control.

However, since 1997 when the Chinese army "moved in" to hk, i am not sure wherther the reserve was disbanded. The Army garrisoned in hk is not paid by the Hk government but the Chinese government.

That sounds bad. Hong Kong should be able to protect itself! But then again, with no $$$ going to military stuff, more is being spent on health and education! :nana:

[Nethappy]

That sounds bad. Hong Kong should be able to protect itself! But then again

Hong Kong had never been able to protect itself it always been protect by a bigger countries, it use to be British now it PRC. The HK reserve army was a laughting joke. I mean they fought very bravely during WW2 and was honorable. But seen then till the time it was disbanded, they where a joke and I dun think even many Hong Kong people know about them.

Anyway, Hong Kong do need to spent more money on health and education.

That sounds bad. Hong Kong should be able to protect itself!
Hong Kong is just a city and is a Part of China, we have out big bother to protect us. I mean after all we where only rented to British for 200 years, we are Chinese after all.... hehe

[KYli]

Hong Kong had never been able to protect itself it always been protect by a bigger countries, it use to be British now it PRC. The HK reserve army was a laughting joke. I mean they fought very bravely during WW2 and was honorable. But seen then till the time it was disbanded, they where a joke and I dun think even many Hong Kong people know about them.
Anyway, Hong Kong do need to spent more money on health and education.

True, I don't know there is HK reserve army until some TV show. HK don't need to spend more on healthcare, they already have one of the best healthcare systen in Asia. HK government should try to make the Healthcare more efficent. The education is more a problem, since the British colony years the HK education is bad. Today, they still don't have a good plan to solve the problem.

Hong Kong is just a city and is a Part of China, we have out big bother to protect us. I mean after all we where only rented to British for 200 years, we are Chinese after all.... hehe
We are one big happy family:D .

[akinkhoo]

i find the discussion quite interesting, i has a query and would like your deepest opinion on it.

how much support would there be (refering to hk public) to estab hk own army division? would it be a wise idea to invest hk citizens in the army? given the level of education, living cost of a cosmopolitan city, the limited population base that could be doing something more productive; could it be affordable to the citystate? or would hk hire mainlanders to solider their army?

are HK ok with PLA garrison, and what opinions does HK has of the garrison? i think HK still has a coastal protection force, is this correct?

thx.

[KYli]

i find the discussion quite interesting, i has a query and would like your deepest opinion on it.

how much support would there be (refering to hk public) to estab hk own army division? would it be a wise idea to invest hk citizens in the army? given the level of education, living cost of a cosmopolitan city, the limited population base that could be doing something more productive; could it be affordable to the citystate? or would hk hire mainlanders to solider their army?

are HK ok with PLA garrison, and what opinions does HK has of the garrison? i think HK still has a coastal protection force, is this correct?

thx.
I don't think there are great interest in HK to establish its' own army division, but HK probably could afford to have some military force. HK would also probably accept to hire mainlanders for soliders.

Yes, HK people are OK with PLA garrison, since the PLA keep a low profile and are doing their best to not cause any trouble and inconvenient.

HK do have a coast guard and they have quick many vessels.

[Nethappy]

KYli I agree fully agree with you.

We have the capability to establish our own defence force. But you wouldn't find many Hong Kong People supporting this. We are happy that we get our protection from what we call our motherland and we are sure they do everything they can to keep us save. As Kyli already make aware the PLA garrison keep a low profile in Hong Kong and are doing their best not to cause any trouble and inconvenient.

Last time I check, the PLA garrison are not allow to mount any operation in Hong Kong unless they received an official request for help, with the exception of war time.

HK do have a coast guard and they have quick many vessels.
Hong Kong does not have a formal coast guard service. The Hong Kong Police Force Marine Region patrolling our waters and the Hong Kong Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centre utilizing asset from the Hong Kong Police Force Marine Region, Marine Department and Government Flying Service for Maritime SAR mission. But it very true that The Police Marine Region has a very large amount of ship.

[aquauant]

I happen to know a few officers in now disbanded HK reserve. Some became police officers and one heli pilot.

From what I heard, they trained pretty tough. We went to UK and malaysia jungle for training with gurhkas, the toughest soldiers in the world. The entry rate I was told was about 10%. They had to run 3 miles hilly in less than 23 min with full combat gears.

Of course, they also complained about being ill-equipped.

[Nethappy]

Anyway I think there is 2 problem with the old HK reserve, ill-equipped and underfund.

It not that Hong Kong dun have the money, but I think it more it dun need to waste that money. Unlike like the singapore it doesn't have a big bother to looking up too. They have to protect themself. We use to have UK we have PRC now, it may already become a part of our culture now, I dun think you find many people here who tell u they wanna join a army and I dun think U find many who want a HK army in the frist place.

gurhkas, the toughest soldiers in the world
Maybe, but I dun think there is a toughest soldiers in world, in reality there is no such thing. What u mean toughest, strength, stamia, or what.
Every soilder could possible agrue their soilder are the toughest or strongest in the world.

[aquauant]

toughest means simplily toughest, physically and with descipline. If you ask a gurkha to stay in one place. He will never move until you tell him to. Of course, I am not saying they will win every battle. They are just grunts. They run (literally) 100km over hilly hk in 14 hrs in boots. Over 24 hrs, he will fail. The british selects one gurkha over every few hundred applicants living in high alttitude Nepal mountainous region.

I am not saying they are the best But they are just toughest.

[ravenshield936]

I think HK is capable of having a modernized military, at least comparable to the West.

I don't necessary mean they are as powerful, but at least the equipment and training will be. One of the prime examples will be the SDU. It is world renowned, and as effective as the West, as well as that they sometimes train with the SAS, SDU, according to what I have read.

But finally of course HK probably will not need its own military force for a very long time. HK is a commercial city, and as important in international status like any Western cities.

[Nethappy]

Hong Kong SDU is more or less something in between a Federal Tatical team and the SAS. They are the best in Hong Kong.
As i said b4 they were first rise and trained by the british SAS.

[jchu1988]

SDU is generally not used unless its extreme emergengy or for CT. There only about 100 active member of the SDU, so they wont be able to much damage compared to a regular army

[Nethappy]

They are not supposed to do as much dmg as a regular army. But i was trying to said they got the same role as the SAS has in extreme emergengy and CT and most likely as well trained for that role.
Most tactical opt is handle by the EU and PTU anyway they are some were in between a elities patrol force and a load of mini swat team.

[ravenshield936]

exactly how "scary" are teh gurkhas?
i have heard they are really deadly soldiers

and the british SAS training..i read bout it

i wonder if the SDU followed the same training, cause if they did they are really elite

[Nethappy]

Read the post in Join PLA anyone?, I got some proved of training with USN seal.
Anyway, the SDU cross train with other world class CT unit e.g: SAS, Seal Team, GiGN etc.

They do follow some of the training, but not all. Over the years experience gain from cross-training with differnet forces they develop some training program and tactical more suitable for operation in the location and setting of Hong Kong.

[weiwei]

i can not understand why HK should have a military force. She is just a city of POC. what she need is only a police force. should New York have her own army?

[coolstorm]

Hong Kong Military Service Corps (HKMSC) (Chinese: 香港軍事服務團) was a British army unit and part of the British garrison in Hong Kong (see British Forces Overseas Hong Kong). Throughout the history of Hong Kong, it has been the only regular British army unit raised in the territory made up almost entirely of Locally Enlisted Personnel (LEP).

The unit was raised in the 1950s/60s with Hong Kong citizens of Chinese descent who have served in the various artillery and coastal defence units during the Battle of Hong Kong in the Second World War. For this reason, members of the HKMSC were frequently nicknamed locally as sui lei pao bing 水雷砲兵 (water mine or coastal artillery soldiers). The unit was disbanded in the early 1990s due to the handover of Hong Kong's sovereignty from the United Kingdom to the People's Republic of China in 1997.

The unit's headquarters and training depot were located at Stonecutters Island. Divided into several squadrons, the unit was commanded by a British career officer (a Lieutenant Colonel) with the assistance of a British or Chinese Regimental Sergeant Major. For most of its existence, the unit has been crucial in providing the British garrison in Hong Kong with support personnel such as drivers, dog-handlers, intelligence operators, interpreters, cooks, clerks, guards, military policemen etc.

During the 1990s the HKMSC has provided personnel to a number of overseas United Nations peacekeeping operations. The unit maintained no battle honour prior to its disbandment.

[Phead128]

Hong Kong people would rarely die for city. Considering we are not ******READ WHAT THE FORUM RULES SAYS ABOUT MINDLESS NATIONALISTIC BS*******
It would be cheaper to hire mainlanders to serve in their army. 5% of Hong Kong's 235 billion GDP is 12 billion dollars. THAT IS TWICE OF SINGAPORE'S BUDGET.

Hong Kong has excellent support personnel such as drivers, dog-handlers, intelligence operators, interpreters, cooks, clerks, guards, military policemen etc.

[Nethappy]

Hong Kong people would rarely die for city
If there ever another war and Hong Kong get invaded again, I would happy die for my city. Phead128 if you are from Hong Kong show some love for your city. No matter who's u hire, only the people who is really protecting something important to them are they really going to die for any thing.

[Kampfwagen]

Personaly, I find this topic sort of confusing. This is sort of like saying "What if Manhattan Island had it's own Military?" I am sure it did at one time, but still, it seems a bit silly to ask.

Forgive me if I miss some universal truth in all of this.

[Nethappy]

Yeah u are rite.. it's quite silly

sorry for the onliner...

[LiLaZnMaGiCsCt]

Hong Kong Military Reserves have their own standards in training, much different with the Chinese. They are very much like Singapore, but stronger and more equipped in different situations. Their Garrison Reserves and Infantry Division of the PLA is the main reason why it's known to be very effective in fast response.

[Delphi84]

Hong Kong Military Reserves have their own standards in training, much different with the Chinese. They are very much like Singapore, but stronger and more equipped in different situations. Their Garrison Reserves and Infantry Division of the PLA is the main reason why it's known to be very effective in fast response.


Wow!! How large is the standing army in HK? I dun have the actual statistics fo SAF strength here, but I have the rough breakdown:

3 Combined armed division
1 Rapid deployment division
1 People's defense force division
1 Mechanized division
1 Special forces Brigade
1 Independent artillery Brigade
1 Independent Armour Brigade

[sydneylocks]

...so, if China went to war, would HK send men to join the PLA? Sort of confused as to the economic/political/military relationship between PRC and HK.

why aren't the borders opened by now if HK is just another city?

what sort of taxes does HK pay to mainland?

do HK population ever enlisted in the PLA?

[sumdud]

Well to tell you guys the truth before anything wild pops up,
Even when HK has a high GDP, the HK government is still very poor relatively speaking. Why?
Hong Kong has no sales tax, and its income tax is very low.
Just because Hong Kong has a high GDP, its government doesn't have its common share of wealth. (How else did Hong Kong attract so much customers anyway? Why isn't Macau as rich as Hong Kong? The lack of government controls led to greater free trade.)

Personaly, I find this topic sort of confusing. This is sort of like saying "What if Manhattan Island had it's own Military?" I am sure it did at one time, but still, it seems a bit silly to ask.agreed.

SDU to me is more like the SWAT. Does it perform well against groups? I don't know.

PS
yes it is weird that HALF our landmass is covered by military bases.?!

[coolstorm]

Well to tell you guys the truth before anything wild pops up,
Even when HK has a high GDP, the HK government is still very poor relatively speaking. Why?
Hong Kong has no sales tax, and its income tax is very low.
Just because Hong Kong has a high GDP, its government doesn't have its common share of wealth. (How else did Hong Kong attract so much customers anyway? Why isn't Macau as rich as Hong Kong? The lack of government controls led to greater free trade.)

agreed.

SDU to me is more like the SWAT. Does it perform well against groups? I don't know.

PS
?!

you are wrong here. hong kong's government is actually one of the richest in the world and one of the very few governments that do not have any debts. all governments around the world such as the us, japan, mainland china, all got a lot of debts but hk's government got no debt. the low tax is exactly the reason of what makes it rich. while the tax rate is low, the revenue is actually high because of the increase in commercial activities and investment driven by a low tax rate. selling land is also one of the biggest revenue sources of the hk's government. hk's economic system is the dream of adam smith where there is the minimal level of government control and a low tax rate.
in hk, the government pay for medical services and nearly everything while the tax rate is very low.

[sumdud]

Yes, I know HK sales a lot of land and is its biggest revenue, but land doesn't grow......(My Dad thinks HK will crumble sooner or later since it is nonrenewable land that helps the government....) I know that HK has a low income tax rate and 0 sales tax, but...........if Hong Kong isn't losing money in a way, then why is Hong Kong talking about imposing a sales tax?

i wonder if the SDU followed the same training, cause if they did they are really elite SDU are among some of the most famous CT groups.

[aquauant]

SDU is just a police tactical unit. It is good at anti-crime operation. Unlike SAS or para, I seriously doubt that it has the ability to deal with terrorists/soldiers with equal or superior weaponery.

Before 97, SDU units were sent to jungle warefare training in Malaysia with the Gurkha, plus some HK military reserve. They were air-extracted for exhaustion just after a week or two. Not exactly soldier material, to say the least. Even the reserve performed better.

I am not saying Hk people are no soldier material. With proper training and leadership, soldiers can be made. Just that SDU is just SDU, good at fighting crime.

[drunkhomer]

isnt da military of hk da garrison that the PLA sends in???

and ps....hk goverment is intruducing tax very soon

[Delphi84]

SDU is just a police tactical unit. It is good at anti-crime operation. Unlike SAS or para, I seriously doubt that it has the ability to deal with terrorists/soldiers with equal or superior weaponery.

Before 97, SDU units were sent to jungle warefare training in Malaysia with the Gurkha, plus some HK military reserve. They were air-extracted for exhaustion just after a week or two. Not exactly soldier material, to say the least. Even the reserve performed better.

I am not saying Hk people are no soldier material. With proper training and leadership, soldiers can be made. Just that SDU is just SDU, good at fighting crime.

Aquauant are u a Australian/British military reserve? I would like to hear more of ur training in tropical rainforest of the equatorial region. Do u have any story of SDU training in Malaysia to share?

I have personally got throught a 3 weeks training in those rainforest of Brunei. But judging from the SDU physical fitness compared to mine( of course I'm weaker), I am quite surprise some SDU can't take it. Perhaps they are not used to the humid tropical foilage of southeast Asia? But to me wad is worst of the tropical jungle is the extremely thick foilage and the series of small knolls that seems never ending in front of u. The ridge line is also plagued with huge buttress roots, making trekking tough. Not to forget those liches that suck ur blood during river crossing. At nite, it is so dark that u can't even see your hands in front of you!! No kidding.:( :( :confused:

But perhaps, SDU is a police force, thus they may be more familiar with urban fighting instead.:D

[coolstorm]

Yes, I know HK sales a lot of land and is its biggest revenue, but land doesn't grow......(My Dad thinks HK will crumble sooner or later since it is nonrenewable land that helps the government....) I know that HK has a low income tax rate and 0 sales tax, but...........if Hong Kong isn't losing money in a way, then why is Hong Kong talking about imposing a sales tax?

SDU are among some of the most famous CT groups.

the government is planning on introducing sales tax because hk's population is getting old. right now, life expectency for its male population is the longest in the world, and for women, it's the fourth longest. overall, right now its life expectency is the second longest in the world. in 3 decades, life expectency in hong kong will be the longest in the world.

this means the majority of the population will be consisted of retired people, strinking the tax base dramatically. that's why they have to think of a new type of tax where more people will fall under it.

but the government still has a large surplus this yr with no debts unlike any other governments in the world. hong kong has never issued government bonds.

regarding the land, the government doesn't only get money from selling lands. they also tax every property trade, and an annual property tax that has a rate proportion to the market value. so when land prices remain high, the government will jsut keep generating a large revenue.

[Nethappy]

Hiya everyone... been buzy working so haven't post here quite a long time.

Hong Kong SDU are not be the best in jungle warefare, but I am pretty sure that they can match even the best counter-terrorists force in the world in a urban scenario.

[Finn McCool]

So Nethappy, now that your back what interesting info can you bring us about the Type 99? :D :china:

Off topic!!! PM him next time!!

[petty officer1]

this is a video of hong kong PLA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgXCR9r70R8

[RavenWing278]

cool nice video petty officer:) i noticed that the HK PLA have different uniforms than the mainland PLA, whats the deal?

[kwait]

The sales tax is already dead now. More than half legislators oppose this idea, so HK keeps the original tax system.:D

Basically HK people are actually 2nd class china citizen so I doubt they will send man to the war field.

For propaganda purpose, there may be a few HK people to join PLA during wartime.

[petty officer1]

the uniforms thing... you see, in china when hong kong came back to china. there is a huge business for clothing factories to compete for a uniform design for HK PLA defence force. different design, different bribe to top officers, different price all comes together. it is a mix "thing"// ;)