Iran military parade

[DPRKPTboat]

Heres some good pics of the 2003 parade in Tehran. They show the elite of the Iranian miltary, including the Shahab 3 missile and sevral indigenous Iranian MBTs.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_249.shtml

I'm sure there must have been pardes like this recently. If so, does anyone have any pics of them? And if anybody has a video of one of these events, please post it here - I just love these things.

[Vlad Plasmius]

I must say, the Zulfiqar is an interesting bit of hardware. Supposedly it's pieced together from a bunch of domestically-produced parts copied from their foreign tanks. However, while it does have some resemblance to the British Chieftan and Russian T-72, it doesn't look like it has very much foreign influence. I'd say it's by all means an indigenous design and make, though undoubtedly they looked at their current tanks for reference and inspiration.

Maybe they ripped some electronics from the other tanks or suspension or something like that, though they've probably worked with them enough to make their own and make them better. It's amazing that Iran's military growth is so poorly covered.

Iran is probably going to be a major world power at this rate.

[PiSigma]

why are all the tanks and IFVs and the missiles being carried on trucks... they are all self mobile, it just doesn't make any sense. if a heliocopter was carried on a truck i would understand, to give the audience a closer look. but tanks can drive on those streets under their own power. unless it's got something to do with their roads??? not reinforced enough to have tanks roll on them?

[Indianfighter]

I must say, the Zulfiqar is an interesting bit of hardware. Supposedly it's pieced together from a bunch of domestically-produced parts copied from their foreign tanks. However, while it does have some resemblance to the British Chieftan and Russian T-72, it doesn't look like it has very much foreign influence. I'd say it's by all means an indigenous design and make, though undoubtedly they looked at their current tanks for reference and inspiration.

Maybe they ripped some electronics from the other tanks or suspension or something like that, though they've probably worked with them enough to make their own and make them better. It's amazing that Iran's military growth is so poorly covered.
I agree with the above statement, completely.

Although the Zulfiqar has been pieced together by equipment from other tanks, yet it is quite indigenous, unlike the Al-Khalid tank which is an upgrade of the T902M.
Its uniqueness and that too from a relatively mediocre, isolated and embargoed nation like Iran is interesting.

The tank looks like a mixture of Chieftain and some western-style designs.

"The Iranian Zulfiqar [Zolfaqar] main battle tank is believed to be pieced together or developed from major components of the Russian T-72 and American M48 and M60 tanks. This tank, which is claimed to be in production in Irana, is said to be similiar in configuration to the M-48 and M-60. Other reports suggest that it bears a close resemblance to the American M1 Abrams."

"The Iranian tank is armed with a 125mm smoothbore gun fitted with a fume extractor which may be fed from an automatic loader. It is known that the Zulfiqar uses suspension like that fitted to Western MBTs such as the M48/M60 MBT. The diesel engine is not taken from the T-72 since this has a distinct exhaust outlet on the left side of the hull. This feature is absent on the Zulfiqar."

Source:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/zulfiqar.htm

Iran is also developing the Tosan tank, and the Cobra APC indigenously with inputs from foreign sources.

[ahho]

why are all the tanks and IFVs and the missiles being carried on trucks... they are all self mobile, it just doesn't make any sense. if a heliocopter was carried on a truck i would understand, to give the audience a closer look. but tanks can drive on those streets under their own power. unless it's got something to do with their roads??? not reinforced enough to have tanks roll on them?

If rubber padding is meant for the road, then none of the tank shown was equipped with any rubber padding???

also any know performance predictions about this beast?? Like range and speed??

[SteelBird]

If rubber padding is meant for the road, then none of the tank shown was equipped with any rubber padding???

also any know performance predictions about this beast?? Like range and speed??

Since the tanks don't have rubber padding, do you notice that the missile launcher was also carried on a truck too. doesn't it have rubber wheels? or maybe it doesnt have an engine or simply just a model!!! :roll:

[DPRKPTboat]

I must say, the Zulfiqar is an interesting bit of hardware. Supposedly it's pieced together from a bunch of domestically-produced parts copied from their foreign tanks. However, while it does have some resemblance to the British Chieftan and Russian T-72, it doesn't look like it has very much foreign influence. I'd say it's by all means an indigenous design and make, though undoubtedly they looked at their current tanks for reference and inspiration.

Maybe they ripped some electronics from the other tanks or suspension or something like that, though they've probably worked with them enough to make their own and make them better. It's amazing that Iran's military growth is so poorly covered.

Iran is probably going to be a major world power at this rate.

I always find it interesting how a third-world country like Iran is able make its own indigenous hardware. The Zufiquar is particulary interesting because it seems like such a modern tank. That is one thing that always amazes me about Iran - some of its hardware seems so modern - almost as modern as China's new hardware. And it seems very capable, building its own spare parts, upgrades and weapons. And thats more than can be said for the Iraqi military and its weapons before it was invaded - most of their tanks were obsolete, their Navy was weak as was the air force - both were complete no shows as far as the Iraq war was concerned. The Iranian military seems to be more powerful. But then Iran hasn't had heavy sanctions like Iraq. Even so, I think Iran could prove to be a tough enemy if we go to war with it.
But be careful about saying Iran is a major superpower - remember these parades are intended to create that impression - they show the elite minority of the Iranaian military. In reality, the majority of Iranian equipment is out of date.
As for the question about the trucks, that was something that puzzled me to. Maybe they could be dummies - maybe this was only intended as a showpiece, or the roads weren't properly done - I don't know about the quality of roads in Tehran. It hasn't suffered from economic embargoes like Baghdad did. Getting back to my original question, have their been any more big parades like this recently?

[MIGleader]

heres the 2004 parade. No tanks though. What amazes me is irans determination not to import any major military hardware, despite having the power to buy quality chinese and russian equipement.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_394.shtml

[DPRKUnderground]

I agree with the above statement, completely.

Although the Zulfiqar has been pieced together by equipment from other tanks, yet it is quite indigenous, unlike the Al-Khalid tank which is an upgrade of the T902M.
Its uniqueness and that too from a relatively mediocre, isolated and embargoed nation like Iran is interesting.

The tank looks like a mixture of Chieftain and some western-style designs.

"The Iranian Zulfiqar [Zolfaqar] main battle tank is believed to be pieced together or developed from major components of the Russian T-72 and American M48 and M60 tanks. This tank, which is claimed to be in production in Irana, is said to be similiar in configuration to the M-48 and M-60. Other reports suggest that it bears a close resemblance to the American M1 Abrams."

"The Iranian tank is armed with a 125mm smoothbore gun fitted with a fume extractor which may be fed from an automatic loader. It is known that the Zulfiqar uses suspension like that fitted to Western MBTs such as the M48/M60 MBT. The diesel engine is not taken from the T-72 since this has a distinct exhaust outlet on the left side of the hull. This feature is absent on the Zulfiqar."

Source:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/zulfiqar.htm

Iran is also developing the Tosan tank, and the Cobra APC indigenously with inputs from foreign sources.

I think this goes for a lot of tanks. The Chinese atrted by copying Soviet tanks, the Merkava is based on numerous Western designs, and the Arjun had a lot of foreign assistance, the same goes with the Al-Khalid as you pointed out. It's amazing that Iran started out with such an original design! But I speculate that it's entirely indigenous, the Russians must have helped them out on electronics, and the turret resembles the Patton and T-72.

[adeptitus]

I always find it interesting how a third-world country like Iran is able make its own indigenous hardware.

Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion, which is roughly equal (both economy and military expenditure) to Argentina. I don't think they qualify as 3rd world countries.

IMO if a country can afford to spend 4+ billion/year on their military, I think they can afford to develop and build tanks.

The Iraq's military was only large on paper. Saddam rode that country right into the ground. When Saddam Hussein first took power in 1979, Iraq had $36 billion cash reserves and no long-term foreign debt. Thats' $36 billion USD in 1979 money. Saddam went to war the following year and burnt $120 billion alone on first 4 years of Iran-Iraq war. By war's end Iraq owed $27 billion to Western countries and $50 billion to Gulf States, with inflation running at 40%. So what does Saddam do? Start another war by invading Kuwait.

While the elite Republican Guards were better equipped, the conscript Iraqi infantryman was given as few as 4 live rounds for target pratice during basic training.

[darth sidious]

Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion, which is roughly equal (both economy and military expenditure) to Argentina. I don't think they qualify as 3rd world countries.

IMO if a country can afford to spend 4+ billion/year on their military, I think they can afford to develop and build tanks.

The Iraq's military was only large on paper. Saddam rode that country right into the ground. When Saddam Hussein first took power in 1979, Iraq had $36 billion cash reserves and no long-term foreign debt. Thats' $36 billion USD in 1979 money. Saddam went to war the following year and burnt $120 billion alone on first 4 years of Iran-Iraq war. By war's end Iraq owed $27 billion to Western countries and $50 billion to Gulf States, with inflation running at 40%. So what does Saddam do? Start another war by invading Kuwait.

While the elite Republican Guards were better equipped, the conscript Iraqi infantryman was given as few as 4 live rounds for target pratice during basic training.

yet even with such a poor economy they manage to built some modern weapon

example

AWACS made using Il-76 and french radar

super scud with 1200km range

T-72 with extra heavy armour ( armour made from cement rubber steel and other such material)

super cannon that can launch shells into space

[Baibar of Jalat]

Darth sidious
super cannon that can launch shells into space

Are you talking about Iraq?
The iranians never and will not build a super cannon. Or have they? pretty sure they have not.

P.s Iran has got some good higher educational institutions, definately not a third world country.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion,

So Iran's GDP is equal to about 30% of the US defense budget, and their military expenditures are equal to about what Bill Gates makes annually. Interesting.

[darth sidious]

Darth sidious


Are you talking about Iraq?
The iranians never and will not build a super cannon. Or have they? pretty sure they have not.

P.s Iran has got some good higher educational institutions, definately not a third world country.

yes a smaller version of the gun is already made before the gulf war and the actual cannon is also under construction but was destroyed after the gulf war

[ahho]

So Iran's GDP is equal to about 30% of the US defense budget, and their military expenditures are equal to about what Bill Gates makes annually. Interesting.
comparing to the USA does not make any sense at all, the best would be comparing it t neighboring country such as isreal or saudi

[Vlad Plasmius]

super cannon that can launch shells into space

They didn't actually build that. They were developing it, but the actually gun was still on paper.

But be careful about saying Iran is a major superpower - remember these parades are intended to create that impression - they show the elite minority of the Iranaian military. In reality, the majority of Iranian equipment is out of date.

I said Iran is probably going to be a major world power. I never said they'd be a super power or that they are currently a world power. Right now they're just a regional power and they still have to share that with several nations.

[FreeAsia2000]

It is possible that Iran and Pakistan will co-operate in the future in building
weapons systems as the Shah of Iran suggested in the past

Contributing Editor AIR MARSHAL (Retd) AYAZ AHMED KHAN talks about the faulty procedures in our defence planning and procurement sector and recommends reforms that need to take place urgently

One of the major lessons of the 1965 and 1971 wars was that defence planning and procurement policies should be re-tailored to achieve self-reliance in defence production. The low priority given to indigenize major weapon systems by Islamabad was made clear to the senior officers during the 1972 foreign tour of the first regular National Defence College course to Tehran. General Tofanian, Shah’s defence minister and former commander of the Iranian Air Force, answering a question from a NDC student (late Lt General Fazle Haq, then a Brigadier) said, "Iran -Pakistan defence cooperation has been the victim of "PARALYSIS OF ANALYSIS".

Referring to Shah’s offer to President Ayub Khan for co-assembly, joint-manufacture of main battle tanks (MBT’s) Pakistan’s hesitation and GHQ’s astonishing reply that "tank had no future", left the Iranian General Staff speechless, and the Shah angry. This unwise reply infuriated the Iranian ruler, and stalled the possibilities of self-reliance in the vital field of armour manufacture.

Pakistan Army wiz-kids had gone in circles to prove to the Field Marshal that armour i.e. the tank would be a useless weapon platform in a future war. This reply based on the study carried out by the General Staff or armour specialists reflected a state of mental paralysis which has afflicted our defence planners for a long time. Was such a conclusion based on the fact that during the 1965 war, Pakistani tanks from No1 Armoured Division had got stuck in the paddy fields of Khemkaran, and became easy targets for Indian gunners hiding in sugarcane fields? But then No. 6 Armoured Division did well in the Chawinda area to destroy Indian armour advancing towards Gujranwala. Was such a recommendation made due to the Khemkaran experience, or due to the new weapon systems i.e. ATGM’s and guided missile firing fighters and helicopters being inducted into modern armies, which could destroy exposed tanks. Frankly Field Marshal’s advisors were proven right during the 1967 Arab - Israel war. Nasser’s tanks in the Sinai desert became sitting ducks for the Israeli Air Power. Over eight hundred Egyptian tanks caught in the open were destroyed by Israeli Air force fighters. But it must not be forgotten that before going for the Egyptian armour, Israeli Air Force had caught the Egyption Air Force on the ground and destroyed it. Israeli air force had complete air superiority during the 1967 war.

Pakistan armour was not used to any great effect in the ‘71 war. And Pakistani generals were again right when in the 1973 October war, Egyptian and Syrian armies turned the tables on the Israeli Air Force and Armour by destroying it with shoulder fired SAM;s and ATGM’s. But in spite of the Arab and Israeli armour debacles in the 1967 and 1973 wars, and Pak debacle in the ‘71 war, armies every where stepped up their efforts for more and better quality tanks. India started tank manufacture in earnest, and Arjun MBT after completion of intensive test trials is ready for delivery to Indian Army armoured corps. Pakistan lost a golden opportunity for self-reliance in armour manufacture, primarily because of the inability of our decision makers to take bold and timely decisions viz armour manufacture in Pakistan with Iranian cooperation, which certainly was in our long term national interest.

Al-Kalid MBT is a victim of indecisions, time and cost over- runs, and its series production is nowhere in sight. It is worth mentioning that the first Al-Khalid was demonstrated to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in early 1992, when General Mirza Aslam Beg was the COAS. Had there been consistency in procurement planning, this vital project surely would have taken concrete shape during the last six years, and we would have seen squadrons of Al-Khalid tanks rolling the 23 March Pakistan Day parades.

General Tofanian also referred to Shah’s offer the 1965 war to fund co-assembly and progressive manufacture of French Mirage fighters in Iran and Pakistan. Pakistan again rebuffed Iranian offer. Pakistan Air Force at the time was engaged in urgent plans to procure Mirage Ill’s and V’s from France, and the Air Staff perhaps felt that the Iranian offer would hinder the pace of procurement of the urgently required fighters. But the Iranian offer merited very serious consideration, because it was being funded by Tehran, and would have been a major step towards self - reliance in the vital field of combat aircraft manufacture. The STORY OF PAKISTAN AIR FORCE does not throw any light on this offer from Iran. Senior PAF officer, and PSO’s at the time may wish to throw some light on this matter.

http://www.defencejournal.com/march98/paralysis.htm

I'm not sure that how much the Iranian military would contribute except in
terms of funding.

[DPRKPTboat]

yet even with such a poor economy they manage to built some modern weapon

example

AWACS made using Il-76 and french radar

super scud with 1200km range

T-72 with extra heavy armour ( armour made from cement rubber steel and other such material)

super cannon that can launch shells into space

Yes, Iraq did manage to install some upgrades and build some good weapons, but as adeptitus said, the idea of these weapons being used to beat off the coalition was on paper and unrealistic. Most of these weapns were the only ones Saddam put on parade. Yes, those T-72s did have laser-designating rangefinders and ERA, and they did build their own version, but there were only 500 of these in service at the time of the Iraq war, used by the Republican guard. The other tanks were obsolete. People thought that the Mirage F1s in the Iraqi air force would play some part, but it was a similar story - a lack of spare parts grounded the entire air force. The realistic fact was that Iraq was no match for the U.S. in open warfare. And it could be no different for other countires we often consider as the main enemies of the west, such as North Korea, for example.
As for the "Super SCUD", if you're talking about the Al-Hussein, that was also a no show because it barely worked. It was 2 SCUDs welded together for Christs sake!!!:rofl: I didn't hear about the space cannon, but even if it had been built, it wouldn't have saved Saddam's regime.
Iraq's main downfall was Saddam's aggressive policy towards his neighbours and the west and the economic sanctions that resulted. Iran, on the other hand, played the game a bit more - after the Iran-Iraq war no further aggression was made. With the attention focused on Iraq, Iran was left alone, which allowed it to rebuild, no sanctions were placed, which is why Iran is currently a stronger regional power than Iraq was under Saddam. Its basically what Iraq would have been if it had not had its economy destroyed by Saddam. Its only now that it is a major concern of the west.
But remember, it is still a poor country - Argentina is also a poor country - at the monet Iran has the status of a gradually developing nation - but its no China. In terms of modernisation, it still has a long way to go, which is why I'm impressed that its able to produce modern equipment idigenously.

[darth sidious]

Yes, Iraq did manage to install some upgrades and build some good weapons, but as adeptitus said, the idea of these weapons being used to beat off the coalition was on paper and unrealistic. Most of these weapns were the only ones Saddam put on parade. Yes, those T-72s did have laser-designating rangefinders and ERA, and they did build their own version, but there were only 500 of these in service at the time of the Iraq war, used by the Republican guard. The other tanks were obsolete. People thought that the Mirage F1s in the Iraqi air force would play some part, but it was a similar story - a lack of spare parts grounded the entire air force. The realistic fact was that Iraq was no match for the U.S. in open warfare. And it could be no different for other countires we often consider as the main enemies of the west, such as North Korea, for example.
As for the "Super SCUD", if you're talking about the Al-Hussein, that was also a no show because it barely worked. It was 2 SCUDs welded together for Christs sake!!!:rofl: I didn't hear about the space cannon, but even if it had been built, it wouldn't have saved Saddam's regime.
Iraq's main downfall was Saddam's aggressive policy towards his neighbours and the west and the economic sanctions that resulted. Iran, on the other hand, played the game a bit more - after the Iran-Iraq war no further aggression was made. With the attention focused on Iraq, Iran was left alone, which allowed it to rebuild, no sanctions were placed, which is why Iran is currently a stronger regional power than Iraq was under Saddam. Its basically what Iraq would have been if it had not had its economy destroyed by Saddam. Its only now that it is a major concern of the west.
But remember, it is still a poor country - Argentina is also a poor country - at the monet Iran has the status of a gradually developing nation - but its no China. In terms of modernisation, it still has a long way to go, which is why I'm impressed that its able to produce modern equipment idigenously.

look up project babylon and you will see the super cannon is actualy under construction by the time of the gulf war

as for Al-Hussein you got it wrogn again it uses the primary engine of a SCUD ( based on german V-2) adn a lenghten body to house more fuel this conbine with a 250kg war head caused the increase renge not wielding two toughter

[utelore]

during the engagments I had with the republican guard NONE of the T-72 that I engaged had reactive armour. some of their T-54/55 had passive type armour added on.

[DPRKPTboat]

during the engagments I had with the republican guard NONE of the T-72 that I engaged had reactive armour. some of their T-54/55 had passive type armour added on.

Wait a minute - were you in one of the Gulf wars? That's interesting, I didn't know that. Were you close enough to see their tanks? They never got close enough to fire at the U.S. tanks.
Well, the eyewitness said it - it was probably only a minority of Iraqi T-72s that had ERA or laser guidance. Perhaps only a few dozen. Maybe its the same for some of Iran's older tanks, like those T-55s that were on parade. Iran does have T-72s as well as indogenous tanks, right?

[Su-34]

Iran Army tank force is junk compared to Egypt Army tank fleet of M1-A1 tanks. Nations that use T-72 tanks in their armies in the 21st century is militarily...weak. Iran's Army needs tanks that match performance of Merkava 4, M1-A2, and Challenger 2 if it wants to defend against external threats.

[Gollevainen]

Nations that use T-72 tanks in their armies in the 21st century is militarily...weak.

oh no, not weak. You see it's not always the quality, but the ability to get the best from it. Countryes with even more inferior forces have managed to defeat superior enemyes. But i do agree, Iran would have the use for modern tanks. Wonder will there ever be more than just rumours about the Zulfigar II???

[Indianfighter]

Since the indigenous development of military hardware by Iran is being discussed, the following are really interesting insights into Iran's indigenous fighter aircrafts:

1] Azarakhsh : Iran was not known to have possessed advanced technology to build fighter planes or tanks.

According to one theory, Iran cobbled together an aircraft by reverse-engineered elements from a number of other aircraft. Evidently a modified F-5, this Iranian design evolved from an examination of the wide variety of fighter aircraft in Iran's inventory [which include both the F-4 and F-5], along with training and experimentation.

A scaled-up version of the US Northrop Grumman F-5f Tiger, Azarakhsh features shoulder mounted air intakes. It is said to be a 10- to 15- percent larger than the F-5. It incorporates an Iranian-designed radar, but with some of the avionics modules actually of Russian design.

In June 1999 it was reported that Iran had begun series production of the Azarakhsh. As of 2000 only four examples of the Azarakhsh were thought to be in existence, and series production was expected to start in 2001. As of 2001 there were six in inventory, with a production schedule established for 30 aircraft over the following three years.

Source with photo :
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/azarakhsh.htm

Comments : Iran beats even India in the diversity of the aircrafts in its Air-Force. From US made F-5s and F-14s to Russian MiG-29s, Su24, and Su-25 to French Mirage-1 and Chinese F-6 and F-7, IrAF has many frontline aircrafts of the 1980s.

Thus, just like the Zulfiqar, they assembled their own fighter plane, by combining good features of all aircrat, although the end-result appears to be very similar to the US F-5.

It may be mentioned, that this indigenous innovation by learning from the leftovers from a begone era, under the cloud of isolation and secrecy......is fascinating.

I believe that the Zulfiqar tank is much more indigenous that the Al-Khalid tank of Pakistan. The reason is that the Zulfiqar takes some features and modifications from many tanks such as M-1A1, M-60, and T-72 and is thus TOTALLY UNIQUE (after all, even Indian hardware designers do look at brochures and pictures to see what the hardware looks like. For example, the Kaveri engine).

In contrast, the Al-Khalid is just an upgrade of the Chinese Type-90 or T90S, with a Ukrainian engine, besides many other Ukrainian and Chinese inputs.
According to me, it doesnt qualify to be called an "indigenous development". It is more like the F-7 jet of China, which is an uppgrade of the MiG-21.

[DPRKUnderground]

Pakistan used many indigenous systems and Western systems on the Al-Khalid. You could say it's like an upgraded export version. A lot if designs were based on what the Shah had in plan. Plus the Shah already had a working air industry that was fledgling. But it's amazing how the mullahs got it back into shape.

[Vlad Plasmius]

Azarakhsh has been subject to some serious problems in its presentation. While it was in fact a project it's possible that some projects were confused for the Azarakhsh. Iran is developing a Fighter-bomber that is believe to be the Azarakhsh 2, confused with the Azarakhsh. In fact the picture on globalsecurity.org is fake.

Here's the original pic:

http://www.iiaf.net/archive/aircraft/images/f5_jpg.jpg

If you look at the pic of the "Azarakhsh" you'll find it actually doesn't even have a very good emblem design on it. The bullseye emblem on the "Azarakhsh" looks more like it was done in paint. That's the only picture of it mentioned. That says to me it isn't real. In fact, it's easy to see where it's edited if you look. The two seats in the cockpit are the same and you can see both "pilots" facing the exact same way.

Supposedly the Azarakhsh was just an experimental project that was probably put aside for other projects.

The globalsecurity.org article even seems to be bogus, it seems to say that the azarakhsh has supercruise at Mach 1.6, faster than F-22, but only has a combat radius of 600 kilometers.

[DPRKPTboat]

I must say, Iran does put very controversial messages in its military parades. Take a look at this video:

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2685595?htv=12&htv=12

Having troops doing stuff like that is not advisable if you want to convince the international community that your nuclear intentions are peaceful. And just out of interest, are there any ideas as to how many Shahab-3s Iran has in its arsenal. I've heard from some places that they only have just over a dozen. Not enough to threaten both Israel and U.S. bases in the Middle east.

[zeeair]

What about Al-Khalid, is it in series production or not? And any developed by Iranians APC is out there?

I must say, Iran does put very controversial messages in its military parades. Take a look at this video:

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2685595?htv=12&htv=12

Having troops doing stuff like that is not advisable if you want to convince the international community that your nuclear intentions are peaceful. And just out of interest, are there any ideas as to how many Shahab-3s Iran has in its arsenal. I've heard from some places that they only have just over a dozen. Not enough to threaten both Israel and U.S. bases in the Middle east.
If delieverd well the Dozen can do the damage required.

[hellboy]

Latest military parade held in 18th April you can see some pictures here (this parade only includes original army not guards corps who controls most of Iran ballistic missile force then you can't see most of Iranian ballistic missiles)

http://media.farsnews.com/imgrep.php?nn=8501290319

http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313502
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313505
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313500
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313498
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313485

All pictures concerning other than chinese military, should be posted in the "world military photos" -forum, thanks.

[DumLoco]

Iran is not like Iraq...
Little is kwown to most people about that country's capabilities. One tends to think of a very backward, unworthy third world country when hears the name.
It has a relatively big economy (the paralel with Argentina that someone made is a good comparison), natural resources, it's quite industralized, good infrastructure, makes R&D in technology and weapons... Of Mr. Bush so called "Axis of evil" states it is by far the more competent one, i really doubt that it can be crushed in a matter of 4 weeks like happened to Iraq.

[DPRKPTboat]

Latest military parade held in 18th April you can see some pictures here (this parade only includes original army not guards corps who controls most of Iran ballistic missile force then you can't see most of Iranian ballistic missiles)

http://media.farsnews.com/imgrep.php?nn=8501290319

http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313502
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313505
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313500
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313498
http://mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=313485

Nice pics!:)

Apparently there were no Shahab-3s or any other ballisitc missile on parade that time. Probably because the situation is already inflamed enough as it is. But they did show off their new subs, which are impressive, and their air force as well, but I didn't see any tanks. By the way, are those jets flying overhead MiG-29s or F-14s?

[hellboy]

Apparently there were no Shahab-3s or any other ballisitc missile on parade that time. Probably because the situation is already inflamed enough as it is. But they did show off their new subs, which are impressive, and their air force as well, but I didn't see any tanks. By the way, are those jets flying overhead MiG-29s or F-14s?

As I told before this military parade held in the army day in 18th April. And only army units showed their weapons and troops. There is an other military parade in Iran that held in late September each year (in anniversary of beginning war with Iraq) and it consist all of military units. This is way you can't see most of Iranian ballistic missile in this parade (for seeing shahab-3 you should wait until September this year).
This year only 6 fighter aircraft was their and all Mig-29.

[Indianfighter]

Iran is not like Iraq...
Little is kwown to most people about that country's capabilities. One tends to think of a very backward, unworthy third world country when hears the name.
It has a relatively big economy (the paralel with Argentina that someone made is a good comparison), natural resources, it's quite industralized, good infrastructure, makes R&D in technology and weapons... Of Mr. Bush so called "Axis of evil" states it is by far the more competent one, i really doubt that it can be crushed in a matter of 4 weeks like happened to Iraq.
I agree with the above post. In my opinion, Iran's military capabilities are better than that of Pakistan, which relies mainly on China for its military hardware.

One can compare the Al-Khalid (Chinese upgrade of Type-90) to the relatively indigenous Zulfiqar.
No country helped Iran make the Azarakhsh whereas it is still unkown what was Pakistan's contribution to the Chinese-Mikoyan designed FC-1.

[FreeAsia2000]

I agree with the above post. In my opinion, Iran's military capabilities are better than that of Pakistan, which relies mainly on China for its military hardware.

One can compare the Al-Khalid (Chinese upgrade of Type-90) to the relatively indigenous Zulfiqar.
No country helped Iran make the Azarakhsh whereas it is still unkown what was Pakistan's contribution to the Chinese-Mikoyan designed FC-1.

Well most pakistani's would be happy to see Iran doing so well since Iran and Pakistan have had excellent relations for decades.

Iran has provided a lot of support to Pakistan in the past and hopefully they
will co-operate in the future. Remember Iran did suggest that they jointly
build a tank in the early 1970's unfortunately some crazy people i Pakistan
believed the tank was no longer relevant :D a decision which didn't please
the shah.

Regarding the Azarakhsh

The IAMI Azarakhsh (Persian: آذرخش, lightning) is Iran's first domestically manufactured combat aircraft. Iran was not previously known to have an aircraft production capability. In April 1997 Iranian Brigadier General Arasteh, a deputy head of the General Staff of the Armed Forces declared that Iran had successfully designed, constructed, and tested its first fighter aircraft. By late 1997 Iran had begun mass producing the aircraft. By mid-2000, four aircraft were said to be undergoing operational tests, with production proceeding at a rate of around ten aircraft per year.

A great deal of the aircraft is derived from the reverse engineered components of US fighter planes. Notable among these are the F-14 Tomcat, the F-5 Freedom Fighter, and the F-4 Phantom II. Numerous enhancements and upgrades were also built into the design from an early stage.

Iran has yet to release any additional information about the aircraft and its capabilities are unknown. It is believed to be essentially a reverse engineered F-5F, but larger by about 10%-15% and powered by two Tumansky RD-33 turbofans, as used on the Mikoyan MiG-29. The Azarakhsh is also said to use the MiG-29's N-019M Topaz radar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAMI_Azarakhsh

[bd popeye]

Hey FreeAsia,.. have you been able to find any actual photos of the plane? I do believe it to be real... But the only pic I found was of a F-5 Tiger II.:( Any help would be appericated. Thanks.

[hellboy]

Hey FreeAsia,.. have you been able to find any actual photos of the plane? I do believe it to be real... But the only pic I found was of a F-5 Tiger II. Any help would be appericated. Thanks.

First of all azarakhsh was nothing else but direct reversed engineered F-5E. But later modified version dual tail fin (and perhaps with large use of composite materials in stricture) with a name of saegeh displayed. It looks like a concept aircraft for testing new thing to me more than operational one. As I knew Iran working on completely new aircraft with name of saegeh 80 ( single engine with new fuselage that looks like some thing between Mig-29 and F-5 body)

http://www.leader.ir/media/album/original/3001_865.jpg

I hope admins don't kill me because of posting picture in this topic!

[Gollevainen]

No worryes, pics are allowed if they are refering to the topic and other parts of your anwser. If you post only pics, those should be made in the photoforum.

Anyway, is there any clearer version of the pic showing the entire plane? Or other pics refering to Irans fighter projects?

[FreeAsia2000]

Hey FreeAsia,.. have you been able to find any actual photos of the plane? I do believe it to be real... But the only pic I found was of a F-5 Tiger II.:( Any help would be appericated. Thanks.

I'm going to be free this weekend so i'll see what I can locate. It's
probably going to be in some Iranian language magazines or newspapers

I've seen some pics of it flying but i'm not sure how reliable they are

[Gollevainen]

I've seen some pics of it flying but i'm not sure how reliable they are

Well if you can post them, fire at will and let us "experts" determ wheter they are anyway realistic...

[hellboy]

Here is the saeqeh (dual fin F-5) picture. Noticeable changes include dual fin, new air intake shape and modified nose.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/images/saeqeh-pic1.jpg

[bd popeye]

Thanks Hellboy and FreeAsia. FreeAsia if you can find more pics to post please do so!

Looks like an F-5 with a dual tail. I would like to know mare about it's weapons suit and avionics:confused:. Here are the stats I found at good old global security...

General characteristics
Crew: two
Length: 17.70 m (58 ft 1 in)
Wingspan: 9.20 m (30 ft 2 in)
Height: m (ft in)
Wing area: 21.9 m² (236 ft²)
Empty: 8,000 kg (17,600 lb)
Loaded:
Maximum takeoff: 18,000 kg (39,600)
Powerplant: 2x Tumansky RD-33, 81.6 kN (18,300 lbf) thrust each
[edit]
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 1.4
Range: 1,200 km (750 miles)

Anybody know about weapons????

[FreeAsia2000]

Here is the saeqeh (dual fin F-5) picture. Noticeable changes include dual fin, new air intake shape and modified nose.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/images/saeqeh-pic1.jpg

There's two versions of the sa'eqah.

The one in the picture and a new advanced version which hasn't been
shown as of yet.

The azarakhsh uses sidewinders and r-60 aphids

Incidentally you might be interested to hear that Iran has just produced the worlds' first mini-tank

More info when i get it...sorry it's spring and i'm busy with girls and work :)

[bd popeye]

The azarakhsh uses sidewinders and r-60 aphids

Sidewinders?:confused: Do the Iranians have newer versions? Or they still using old stockpiles? I don't think the US supplied the Iranians with weapons since 1979. If the have sidewinders they are very old or they purchased them from an allie.

[hellboy]

Sidewinders? Do the Iranians have newer versions? Or they still using old stockpiles? I don't think the US supplied the Iranians with weapons since 1979. If the have sidewinders they are very old or they purchased them from an allie.

Last version of sidewinders that Iran still uses is AIM-9P and they don't get any newer version of it after 1979. But they have AA-8 and AA-11 Russian short range air to air missiles and also Chinese PL-7

[Gollevainen]

That info from Globalsecurity isen't from the aircraft in the picture. Noway are those engines Rd-33 or that plane 17,7 meters long. In fact the size of the globalsecuritys aircraft is somewhat equal to MiG-29 with smaller wings...

[bd popeye]

Golly sez...
That info from Globalsecurity isen't from the aircraft in the picture. Noway are those engines Rd-33 or that plane 17,7 meters long. In fact the size of the globalsecuritys aircraft is somewhat equal to MiG-29 with smaller wings...

:( Man oh man..Bum info. What a shock. So does anyone one know the real information?

Hey Golly do you think that pic is real and not "PS"???

I think it's "PSed" Check out the shadow. It's to perfect and the rest of the aircraft is fuzzy. The tailpipe may seem to be to high off the ground. It also appears to be angeled odly as though pasted on that pic. Just my opinion..I could be wrong.

The bottom line is that I do believe that Iran has this aircraft but I just can't find any correct info on it.

[Gollevainen]

It could be photoshopped, tough i'm not 100% sure. The proplem with these Iraninan projects is that the information is really confusing and sometimes bit contradicting too...

[hellboy]

It could be photoshopped, tough i'm not 100% sure. The proplem with these Iraninan projects is that the information is really confusing and sometimes bit contradicting too...

It isn't PS I'm sure because I saw its test flight video (this picture captured from that video and its poor quality is because of it) and also there is another pictures with high details if I found them I Will post them here.

[hellboy]

http://www.khamenei.ir/Data/Media/Photo/83/04/18A/B/034.jpg

http://www.khamenei.ir/Data/Media/Photo/83/04/18A/B/039.jpg

Look at its wing I think it made of composite material

[ahho]

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/5168/182ap.jpg

http://www.khamenei.ir/Data/Media/Photo/83/04/18A/B/034.jpg

http://www.khamenei.ir/Data/Media/Photo/83/04/18A/B/039.jpg

Look at its wing I think it made of composite material


i am no expert at this, but how can you tell if it is made of composite.

also i am just wondering, wouldn't the nozzle too close together to employ 3d thrust???

[hellboy]

i am no expert at this, but how can you tell if it is made of composite.

First of all compare shiny surface of the wing with it's beside fuselage with lot of screws!
And also saeqeh is under development in Owj industries which has a good experience with composite materials by developing "Tazarv" fully composite advanced training jet.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/tomc1970/Iran/IRIAF%20Tazarv%20in%20color.jpg

[DPRKPTboat]

Look at the nose on the trainer plane - it looks like an enlargened version of the F-4 Phantom's nose, with a smaller and stockier body. I expect most of Iran's indigenous aircraft are derived from U.S. hardware - thats why they look so modern.

[planeman]

Looking at the nose of the Tazarv doesn't cry out F-4 to me at all. The Tazarv is all-new design with a completely unique look about it.

[Indianfighter]

Here is the saeqeh (dual fin F-5) picture. Noticeable changes include dual fin, new air intake shape and modified nose.

Iran never ceases to impress with its resilience and innovation by putting 2 and 2 together to make a new aircraft.

[MIGleader]

First of all compare shiny surface of the wing with it's beside fuselage with lot of screws!
And also saeqeh is under development in Owj industries which has a good experience with composite materials by developing "Tazarv" fully composite advanced training jet.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/tomc1970/Iran/IRIAF%20Tazarv%20in%20color.jpg

I question your wording. No aircraft is 100% composite, and the basic airframe is usally aluminum, titanium or another metal. Even the latest fighters using composites only use a single digit percentage of composites.

[ahho]

I question your wording. No aircraft is 100% composite, and the basic airframe is usally aluminum, titanium or another metal. Even the latest fighters using composites only use a single digit percentage of composites.
probably he doesn't mean 100%, but maybe say to the modern standard

[planeman]

Scaled composites in USA have flown a number of "all-composite" aircraft and the wings of the X-29 were all-composite(?).

[hellboy]

probably he doesn't mean 100%, but maybe say to the modern standard

Exactly what I mean!

[Gollevainen]

Golly is back so cut out the oneliners...:nono:

[PakTopGun]

I woudnt brush off Iran's ingenuity either.. They have a lot of resources, have a relatively high literacy rate (above 80%) and many trained personnel. They're also sitting on the 2nd or 3rd largest reserves of oil/gas in the world. Now they have recovered from the long Iran-Iraq war which was fought while being under tough sanctions and they have money to invest. Also, they have linked up with other countries willing to work(Russia, China, France+rest of EU) with them or suffering similar sanctions(Pakistan). I think we'll be seeing more surprising designs coming out of Iran in the near future!;)

[planeman]

Golly is back so cut out the oneliners...:nono:
Irony?
Lol.

[Gollevainen]

when Police hits you whit nigthstick its not abuse...Anyway when you see red color text, its means that there is a moderator doing some sort of moderation...Usually, as short as possiple is the best solution...

[RCI_Alliance]

Its time to revive this the discussion about Iran.

I put google Earth in play, a very interesting tool. Look at the following coordinates: 27° 9'22.99"N 56°10'6.38"E

A pretty large Military area with a Navy base, note the large number of wessles!

An airport, but interestingly no airplains around, only some helicopters. It seams they have their planes parked in few large hangars, not very wise.

An interesting hoovercraft base next zu the airport wicht 6 large and 1 smaller crafts stationed there. Why do the iranians need hoovercrafts? Are the whaters not deep enough for regular ships or do they plan an Invasion? ;)

[bd popeye]

You have to remember when you google up those satilaite sites those pics are at least a year old. And in most cases older.

Why do the Iranians need hovercraft? Perhaps to transport personell to the oil platforms in the Gulf.

[sumdud]

Yeah, what in the world is with Iran? They have so many good-looking projects, but they are on trucks........
When they say they have good R&D, you've got to wonder...... (When you have the ability to produce spare parts, don't you have also the ability to reproduce the plane?)

And notice their MLRS, the trucks that they lay on are rather..............old.
Also, their tanks' top look..............rather clean and simple.

[Mr.Jo]

Iran has a $182 billion economy and annual military budget of $4.x billion, which is roughly equal (both economy and military expenditure) to Argentina. I don't think they qualify as 3rd world countries.

IMO if a country can afford to spend 4+ billion/year on their military, I think they can afford to develop and build tanks.

The Iraq's military was only large on paper. Saddam rode that country right into the ground. When Saddam Hussein first took power in 1979, Iraq had $36 billion cash reserves and no long-term foreign debt. Thats' $36 billion USD in 1979 money. Saddam went to war the following year and burnt $120 billion alone on first 4 years of Iran-Iraq war. By war's end Iraq owed $27 billion to Western countries and $50 billion to Gulf States, with inflation running at 40%. So what does Saddam do? Start another war by invading Kuwait.

While the elite Republican Guards were better equipped, the conscript Iraqi infantryman was given as few as 4 live rounds for target pratice during basic training.


Iran 2008 Budget is (USD)$305 Billion
and according to the CIA Iran 2007 GDP(PPP) was (USD)$850 Billion and ranked 15th in the world
and International Institute for Strategic Studies estimated Iran's 2005 defense budget at $6.3 billion

lets compare that to some other country's

Saudi Arabia budget is about $150 billion
CIA has the Saudi GDP(PPP) at $550 Billion
in 2008 Saudi Arabia will spend over $31 BILLION on its military

Turkeys budget is $180 Billion
Turkey spent almost $15 billion on its military in 2007


This shows money doesn't mean anything

Saudi Arabia is spending $31 Billion on its Military thats more than what India is spending witch is $25Billion
yet Iran can easily destroy the Saudis



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