The New Iraqi Airforce

[DPRKPTboat]

As well as rebuilding the Iraqi army, The Coalition is also helping to build the New Iraqi airforce. Heres a good link for anyone who wants info on it:

http://www.scramble.nl/iq.htm

According to this site, 5 Iraqi airbases have now been rebuilt. The New Iraqi air force is currently equipped with Mi-17s, UH-1s, C-130s and hte jordanian built SB7L-360, a surveillance aircraft. Currently the airforce is mostly used for training and counter-insurgency, but as time goes buy, its duties will expand to aerial combat. In 15 years time (If that country isn't torn apart by then) I believe Iraq will have Tornadoes, F-16s, F-14s and toher western aircraft. Be my guest if anyone else has any theories. And if anyone knows of any current Iraqi air force development, please post it here.

[Vlad Plasmius]

Perhaps China can sell a few FC-1s or J-10s. I think that looks to be pretty favorable. I don't know if the U.S. would give Iraq free fighters, but China would definitely give them a good price. It'll be interesting to see.

[DPRKPTboat]

Perhaps China can sell a few FC-1s or J-10s. I think that looks to be pretty favorable. I don't know if the U.S. would give Iraq free fighters, but China would definitely give them a good price. It'll be interesting to see.

Would China be interested in selling Iraq advanced fighters? I'm not sure. I'm not aware of any major Chinese interests in Iraq. Much of the Iraq's oil is controlled by America. Infact, nearly the whole country is controlled by America. I don't really see how the Chinese would be able to gain any benefits there. And they were never very intersted in Iraq anyway. I know that the new Iraqi navy's patrol boats wre Chinese built, but I think its more likely that Iraq's combat aircraft would be Western. Eventually, Iraq may provide a useful buffer for the West against Iran, so it would make sense for alot of Iraq's weapons to be western.

[adeptitus]

Here's a couple US military articles on the new Iraqi AF:
http://www.dod.mil/news/Mar2006/20060307_4419.html
http://www.dod.mil/news/Mar2006/20060303_4375.html
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123014006
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/jan2006/a011706ms2.html
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/oct2005/a102405tj2.html

[PiSigma]

don't think china would want to sell fc-1 or j-10 to iraq for security reasons. currently they are china's best fighters, and since iraq is under american control. selling these planes to iraq just means USA will get a good long look at it and play around with the stuff inside. which means USA will know exactly what the strength and weaknesses of fc-1 and j-10 are. that is certainly a huge disadvantage to china, especially since china actually use j-10 for the air force. it will not be good for china if there's a confrontation with USA, when US knows about all the secrets in J-10 already. so no matter what.. don't think china will be selling fc-1 and j-10 to iraq.. maybe some J-7 or J-8, since they are old and everyone have the tech already.

[adeptitus]

So far the US has been pretty careful with what it gave to the Iraqi's. The New Iraqi Army received some cold-war era surplus T-72M's from Hungary, and retired M113A1 APC's from Swiss government (via UAE). The new Iraqi AF has been given some helicopters and AC-130 transports, but no real combat aircraft.

In the past, some have speculated that the US would rebuild Iraqi military with its own hardware - M60, possibly even M1 MBT's, surplus F-16's, AH-1's, and so on. They had hoped the Iraqi people would welcome the US with open arms and turn into a democratic US ally and hedge against Iran, or so they thought.

The realities of Iraq today is quite different and I don't think the US really trust the new Iraqi Army yet. Also the Iraqi army themselves said they're more familiar with Soviet/Russian arms, so the US army even attempted to purchase AK-47's from China for the New Iraqi Army, opposed by the Pentagon.

[Vlad Plasmius]

selling these planes to iraq just means USA will get a good long look at it and play around with the stuff inside.

I doubt the country will be in our hands for long. ;)

I don't think there'd be real objections to offering FC-1. The Pakistanis are allies with China and are very close to the U.S. Hell, Pakistan's also getting the J-10. If we wanted to see the aircraft's performance we could go to the more experienced pilot's. I think China would only have a problem with the possibility that a few might "disappear". That would only work if we have tight control and there's still some chaos to blame it on.

[vincelee]

there is a difference between strategic alliance and a puppet.

And if you haven't noticed, there is almost a civil war going on in Iraq.

[Indianfighter]

The new Iraqi Airforce can also purchase the Dhruv military helicopter from India. It will immediately give it a quantum leap in helicopters as compared to many airforces in the world, as the Dhruv is a very competent helicopter in the 5.5 ton category. It is similar to Eurocopter models in that category.

Also, Iraqi Airforce can purchase used MiGs from India, ranging from MiG-21s to MiG-27s.

[MIGleader]

Why on earth would Iraq want to purchase stuff from india? you realize all the weapons must be new, so why would anyone want to buy second hand Migs? Iraq is preparing for the 21st century, thus will lay hands on at least mig-29s, not older.

Dhruv might have a chance if the Iraqi army is interested in helicopters.

[DPRKUnderground]

The new Iraqi Airforce can also purchase the Dhruv military helicopter from India. It will immediately give it a quantum leap in helicopters as compared to many airforces in the world, as the Dhruv is a very competent helicopter in the 5.5 ton category. It is similar to Eurocopter models in that category.

Also, Iraqi Airforce can purchase used MiGs from India, ranging from MiG-21s to MiG-27s.

I agree with the Dhruv part. It would be cheap and the US would be happy, but the Iraqis are familiar with Russian stuff. I think Mi-17s are going over there for heavy stuff. Tank-wise, Iraq is has shown interest in the Al-Khalid. It uses some Ukrainian systems, so they would be familiar with some stuff, not much, but some. Also it works in the desert. The Iraqi government has also shown interest in the Al-Tahla for the APC. Basically a cheap, improved version of the M-113. But the Air Force doesn't want flying coffins! They're going with MiG-29s and F-16s!

[Vlad Plasmius]

I think there's a good chance of Iraq getting FC-1s, though J-10s may be a while.

Also, Iraq's government isn't a puppet. Our puppet got kicked out and we're not going to back up the claims by removing a legally-elected leader. The current leader is Shiite and not exactly moderate. As I recall his party includes leaders of the Badr Corps, a Shiite militia. We have put far more support into the Kurds than Shiites. We were helping the Kurds a lot, when the Shiites rebelled we didn't so much as grunt and let Saddam massacre them.

We have no real love for the Shiites and, in truth, no one in Iraq has an real love for us. More like they acknowledge us as a necessary evil and we them. Regardless of what the military brass in the Pentagon want, Bush isn't a war-mongerer and doesn't agree with all this strategic positioning. However, we can't leave and we have to work with whatever government the people chose.

[PLABUDDY]

I think there's a good chance of Iraq getting FC-1s, though J-10s may be a while.
No way. Chinese government won't sell weapons that advanced to Iraq. At least not before America completely withdraws its forces. China will never ever reveal their most recent and advanced weapons to America, or they would be giving their secret away, and selling weapons to Iraq now will only allow America access to them.:china: :nana: :D

[WEN?]

playbuddy is right. sellling our stuff to iraq is really selling it the US for they still have effective control over the nation. also selling it to them now and letting them use it will really give the US a chance to shoot the J-10's down and even capture them and then they will see our technology first hand. best leave it to later and give them less advanced stuff for the may have put pawns in the gov or left some spies hanging around.

[swimmerXC]

Why on earth would Iraq want to purchase stuff from india? you realize all the weapons must be new, so why would anyone want to buy second hand Migs? Iraq is preparing for the 21st century, thus will lay hands on at least mig-29s, not older.

Dhruv might have a chance if the Iraqi army is interested in helicopters.

Well India might sell LCA if it comes into production soon and the Indian governments wants to export them...

I think there's a good chance of Iraq getting FC-1s, though J-10s may be a while.

FC-1 might have a good chance once China develops an engine for it, for the time bring Russia will probably not let them export it; and you know Russia will be dying to get a market in Iraq.
J-10...
Just sell them the airframe :roll:

[vincelee]

"Our puppet got kicked out and we're not going to back up the claims by removing a legally-elected leader."

The US has done it before (Iran comes to mind), and it'll do it again.

[Vlad Plasmius]

PLABUDDY

No way. Chinese government won't sell weapons that advanced to Iraq.

FC-1 isn't that advanced and we'll have plenty of access to that technology when it's transferred to Pakistan.

At least not before America completely withdraws its forces.

That's why I mentioned J-10. When we're not there anymore, or have far less influence over the goings-on, China can feel secure in selling the J-10A. By that time they'll probably have work on J-10C and J-12 started.

China will never ever reveal their most recent and advanced weapons to America, or they would be giving their secret away, and selling weapons to Iraq now will only allow America access to them.

So would selling weapons to Pakistan. Remember the U.S. trained with Kuwaiti artillery forces using the PLZ-45. We have done excercises with India using Russian equipment and Russia would have a lot of interest in protecting their secrets as well. China may in fact, want us to see the aircraft in action so as to have some bragging rights.

vincelee

The US has done it before (Iran comes to mind), and it'll do it again.

That was around 50 years ago during the Cold War where few eyes watched or few eyes cared. Now we live in a far more conscientious time and many eyes are watching us around the world. An overthrow would be criticized by many nations and by the American public. It would quickly get to terrorists who would capitalize on it. Bush isn't that stupid, despite all appearances.

[adeptitus]

The PRC doesn't have to export FC-1 with "sensitive" domestic technology. No reason why they can't sell via Pakistan as JF-17 with European avonics & radar, like the FIAR Grifo S-7. The first fixed-wing fighters delivered to the new Iraqi AF are unlikely to be equipped with BVR missiles anyway.

But I think the US will stay in Iraq for some years to come, and if the T-72 sale was any indication, they'd prolly import some used/surplus MiG-21's from former Eastern-block nation to serve in the new Iraqi AF.

[Kampfwagen]

Right now, it is very unlikely China will sell anything to Iraq. It would be a PR nightmare if China was found to be selling weapons to a nation supousedly under western influence. Not only that, but imagine if civil war DID break out and someone is found using Chinese imported military technology? People could leap to the conclusion that China is somehow trying to vie for territory in Iraq, or even cause general chaos for whatever reason people could come up with. It would be a political nightmare. Besides, it's not too intelegent for China to go selling top military technology willy-nilly like the Soviets did.