China's relationship with Vietnam

[bdmilitary]

Guys I know for a fact that China and Vietnam fought a war against each other and both nations lay claim to a chain of islands in the South China seas. Currently, what is the relationship between these two countries?

What is the official Chinese governments position and also what is your personal opinion. I am studying international relations (Specialising in Asia-Pacific relations) so it will be good if I can have personal opinions from real chinese people who are interested in defence and international affairs.

[Red Guard]

after 1990, the situation between china and VM had soften up. and not very long after that, viet nam had declared the war was a wrong war with china, unoffically, since viet nam needs china and soviet union no longer existed and sure wont support viet nam anymore, which they didn't very much anyway, viet nam is more and more pro china. but as a nation, which is expecting to somehow rule the indo china, they are still playing as a threat to china, especially with the islands' problem. but i don't see it a great issue, since viet nam is like a poppet to china, with our greatest enemy in asia is japan, and island problem with japan. i won't worry about viet nam very much, since they were never a great problem for the last a couple thousand years. they weren't a problem back then, and they won't become a problem right now.
which i could quote a line by Moe from "the simpsons"
"....you know, one of those 3rd world loser countries"
i myself respect viet namese people though. and in fact, when many viet namese people were pretty friendly to me when i was in high school, and even a viet namese girl madly fell inlove with my best friend......

[adeptitus]

Guys I know for a fact that China and Vietnam fought a war against each other and both nations lay claim to a chain of islands in the South China seas. Currently, what is the relationship between these two countries?
What is the official Chinese governments position and also what is your personal opinion. I am studying international relations (Specialising in Asia-Pacific relations) so it will be good if I can have personal opinions from real chinese people who are interested in defence and international affairs.

Basically they agreed that the islands weren't worth shooting each other over and opted for joint-exploration and development of the resources:

http://www.buzzflash.com/mediawatch/05/07/wmw05078.html
4//Xinhuanet, China--JOINT EXPORATION OF SOUTH CHINA SEA AGREED (Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and his Vietnamese counterpart Phan Van Khai agreed on Monday that the two countries, together with the Philippines, should jointly explore and develop the disputed areas on the South China Sea. During a meeting with Phan on the sidelines of the second summit of the Greater Mekong Subregion (GMS) Economic Cooperation in this capital of southwest China's Yunnan Province, Wen said he hoped that oil companies from the three countries would start joint prospecting on the South China Sea as soon as possible. Phan responded that Vietnam would work together with China and the Philippines to promote the development of the three-nation joint exploration. … He also called for expanded cooperation with Vietnam in major infrastructure construction projects and in tapping resources, especially in the exploration of mineral resources and power plant construction.)

My personal opinion is that of all the East-Asian countries influenced by China culturally, Vietnam is on top of the list. They might not use Chinese characters today, but they still celebrate the same holidays like Mid-Autumn festival (Têt-Trung-Thu), lit lanterns and eat mooncakes.

At personal levels there aren't that many conflicts. But economically Vietnam absolutely hate to compete against the lower labor costs in China. Many times in the past, Vietnam has accused Chinese provines of keeping minimum wages low, and depressing wages in across in Vietnam.

Militarily, without Soviet/Russian backing, the Vietnamese aren't stupid and know their navy wont' last 2 hours against the PLAN. Since conflict isn't an option, they're willing to comprimise on the Spratley claim and seek maximum gains through negotiations.

[KYli]

Basically they agreed that the islands weren't worth shooting each other over and opted for joint-exploration and development of the resources:
For now and the Future this is the best option for peace.

My personal opinion is that of all the East-Asian countries influenced by China culturally, Vietnam is on top of the list. They might not use Chinese characters today, but they still celebrate the same holidays like Mid-Autumn festival (Têt-Trung-Thu), lit lanterns and eat mooncakes.
What you say are true, but for some unknown reason. The countries who influenced by china the most, Personally I see them tends to be more hostile toward China.

At personal levels there aren't that many conflicts. But economically Vietnam absolutely hate to compete against the lower labor costs in China. Many times in the past, Vietnam has accused Chinese provines of keeping minimum wages low, and depressing wages in across in Vietnam.
The conflicts were not that great, but the mistrust and hatred still linger for many years to come. Many Vietnamese are still dislike China for these.

Militarily, without Soviet/Russian backing, the Vietnamese aren't stupid and know their navy wont' last 2 hours against the PLAN. Since conflict isn't an option, they're willing to comprimise on the Spratley claim and seek maximum gains through negotiations.
Vietnam is very ambitious nation and Vietnamese do have a strong sense of nationalism. They are willing to comprimise on the Spratley because China make steps to appease them. Such as China has give up some controversy lands between Vietnam and China, so the borders could be draw. The Joint development is a good idea, but Vietnam did not stopped their intention to take as many island and resources as they could. If Vietnam become stronger in the future, I would see more tension between China and Vietnam, but hopefully both sides could work more to solve the problems now. So the relationship should built up and trust could overcome difference.

[FuManChu]

What you say are true, but for some unknown reason. The countries who influenced by china the most, Personally I see them tends to be more hostile toward China.

Given that China repeatedly tried to exert its hegemony over places like Vietnam, such hostility is rather understandable. They were hardly going to have been happy that their big neighbour was trying to turn them into another Chinese province.

[FreeAsia2000]

Given that China repeatedly tried to exert its hegemony over places like Vietnam, such hostility is rather understandable. They were hardly going to have been happy that their big neighbour was trying to turn them into another Chinese province.

Big Brother / Little Brother hostility more than anything else.

The Chinese can't understand why the vietnamese won't take their advice and the Vietnamese want to have their own space:D

[DPRKPTboat]

Since the end of the Vietnam war, Vietnam has become a "local superpower" in its own right, as it is the dominant nation in Indochina. It has strong influence over both Laos and Cambodia. But China has also being trying to gain influence over these countries to. When the Khmer Rouge ruled Cambodia, they were suppourted by China and opposed by Vietnam. When Vietnam invaded Cambodia to overthrow the Khmer Rouge, this caused the Chinese to invade and start the Sino-Vietnma war. Cambodia is no longer communist, but Laos is, and both China and Vietnam are competing for influence there. So I would say that both countries are still quite suspicous of one another, although relations have repaired recently.

[KYli]

Given that China repeatedly tried to exert its hegemony over places like Vietnam, such hostility is rather understandable. They were hardly going to have been happy that their big neighbour was trying to turn them into another Chinese province.
:rofl:
China is a wonderful nation. China is a peaceful nation. china is a great nation.

Fumanchu don't need to worry. China and vietnam will resolve their difference.

[darth sidious]

Given that China repeatedly tried to exert its hegemony over places like Vietnam, such hostility is rather understandable. They were hardly going to have been happy that their big neighbour was trying to turn them into another Chinese province.

why are you always trying to start flaming war !!!

every one of your ppost contines topics such as China threaten Japan/korea/taiwan
ever get tired of "china threat "

for a fact i can tell you vietnam kicked out a lot of its chinese citzen in the late 70s this conbimeed with its invasiion of combodia caused the sino -vietnam war

[Gollevainen]

Well flame wars beguns usually when members fall into baits like these so try to build some reasonable converasation before I have to close the thread that has, suprise, suprise...absolutely nothing to do with military...other than re-waging the sino-vietnamese wars so please, there is a dedicated thread for that in the historical forum.

And to Fumanchu, you could have reprhased that sentence into more polite fashion to avoid beeing labeled as a troll

[adeptitus]

Since the end of the Vietnam war, Vietnam has become a "local superpower" in its own right, as it is the dominant nation in Indochina. It has strong influence over both Laos and Cambodia. But China has also being trying to gain influence over these countries to. When the Khmer Rouge ruled Cambodia, they were suppourted by China and opposed by Vietnam. When Vietnam invaded Cambodia to overthrow the Khmer Rouge, this caused the Chinese to invade and start the Sino-Vietnma war. Cambodia is no longer communist, but Laos is, and both China and Vietnam are competing for influence there. So I would say that both countries are still quite suspicous of one another, although relations have repaired recently.

Vietnam hold some influence over Cambodia only because Hun Sen is still in office. Most of the other Cambodia factions dislike Vietnam due to territorial disputes between the two nations. A typical Cambodian commentary on the broder incident reads like this:

http://www.cambodia.org/blogs/editorials/2005/07/loss-of-cambodias-territorial.html
Border problems with Vietnam have made headline news again with the recent incident in Ta Poeu village, Bavet commune, Chantrea district, Svay Rieng province where a young Khmer man whose buffaloes and farm equipments were confiscated, was beaten savagely and kicked severely three times in the chest by the Vietnamese border security forces for attempting to work in his own fields and in his own country. His escape from the Vietnamese border security forces was only made possible by the courageous actions of his loving mother who, despite being alone, continued to struggle without regards to her own life to help free him from their bondage.

As for PRC relations with Cambodia, it's like this: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", about as realpolitik as it gets. The PRC Government under Mao supported both the Cambodian Monarchy and the Khmer Rouge. IMO if you look at what Pol Pot's boys did to the 425,000 ethnic Chinese living in Cambodia, I think the PRC should've just let the Vietnamese wipe them out. The Viets at the time were pretty mean and wanted to deport the Chinese, but that's still better than what the Khmer Rogue had in mind. If you look at the piles of skulls laying around Cambodia, at least 300,000 to 400,000 of them are ethnic Chinese.


Vietnam is very ambitious nation and Vietnamese do have a strong sense of nationalism. They are willing to comprimise on the Spratley because China make steps to appease them. Such as China has give up some controversy lands between Vietnam and China, so the borders could be draw. The Joint development is a good idea, but Vietnam did not stopped their intention to take as many island and resources as they could. If Vietnam become stronger in the future, I would see more tension between China and Vietnam, but hopefully both sides could work more to solve the problems now. So the relationship should built up and trust could overcome difference.

Wouldn't you?? Territorial dispute is about self-interest. "Mine! Mine! All Mine!"

The Viets can turn around and say the same about Chinese: "...China is a very ambitious nation with strong sense of nationalism, they are willign to compromise for now while it benefits them".

[KYli]

Wouldn't you?? Territorial dispute is about self-interest. "Mine! Mine! All Mine!"

The Viets can turn around and say the same about Chinese: "...China is a very ambitious nation with strong sense of nationalism, they are willign to compromise for now while it benefits them".
I never said China is any difference, but joint development have only achieve limited agendas. Both sides still is suspious of each other, so there are more work need to be done.

[FreeAsia2000]

why are you always trying to start flaming war !!!

every one of your ppost contines topics such as China threaten Japan/korea/taiwan
ever get tired of "china threat "

for a fact i can tell you vietnam kicked out a lot of its chinese citzen in the late 70s this conbimeed with its invasiion of combodia caused the sino -vietnam war

darth sidious vietnam kicked/disappeared a LOT of other asians including
my two great uncles because being shop owners apparently they were a
threat to world communism.

let it go mate. it was a long time ago.

[adeptitus]

Ethnic Chinese who lived outside of China have traditionally gotten the short end of the stick over the centuries. The imperial Chinese government saw them as money-hungry merchants who got fat overseas and don't even come home for Ching-Ming festival and clean their ancestral graves. When they got wiped out by the Dutch or Spanish, the response from China's Imperial Government was rather muted.

This pattern would carry on and turn worse after WW2. The PRC government also contributed to some of the problems with their foreign policies, though they shouldnt take the blame in some cases.

At one time, there were large, prosperous ethnic Chinese populations living in S. Korea, Vietnam, and Cambodia. At the end of the Korean war, S. Korea placed economic sanctions on ethnic Chinese and many of them left, and those who stayed ended up runnning restaurants, one of few businesses permitted by the government.

In Vietnam, the ethnic Chinese in Saigon became economic enemies after the communist takeover, and then the Sino-Vietnam war contributed to more fleeing on boats. A lot of those "boat people" from Vietnam are actually ethnic Chinese.

In Cambodia, once there were some 425,000 ethnic Chinese, who prospered economically and ran shops and money-lending businesses. Well we all know what the Khmer Rogue did to them. =p

[FriedRiceNSpice]

In Cambodia, once there were some 425,000 ethnic Chinese, who prospered economically and ran shops and money-lending businesses. Well we all know what the Khmer Rogue did to them. =p

Its ironic that they PRC choose to support and even fight a war in aid of a regime that massacred ethnic Chinese.

[woodli2006]

My nuncle had join China-Vietnam war. He was a Chinese engineer soldier.He told me that Vietnamese were cheeky.We gave so many help to them in American-Vietnam war, but in the end they robbed our domain. So I don't like them. :(

[scott]

Guys I know for a fact that China and Vietnam fought a war against each other and both nations lay claim to a chain of islands in the South China seas. Currently, what is the relationship between these two countries?

What is the official Chinese governments position and also what is your personal opinion. I am studying international relations (Specialising in Asia-Pacific relations) so it will be good if I can have personal opinions from real chinese people who are interested in defence and international affairs.
其它的中国人怎么认为的我不太清楚，反正我是不喜欢越南人的，它以前是我们的附庸国，总之，他们想摆脱中国 的势力范围。越南最近和中国的经济联系也越来越紧密了吧，以前因为受到俄国的怂恿与支持。而且因为把美国打 败了，所以也就不把中国放在眼里了。
而且动辄威胁我们，呵呵。
it is my opinion,if you want to read it.please learn the chinese firstly.if you want to research the relation between china and the vietnam.you must learn their language and converse with them personally,not hear from others.
do you know?

[The_Zergling]

Well personally I don't dislike people of any country until I have interacted with them in person...

And like you said yourself. If you want to understand the people of a country the best way is to learn their language and have real conversations with them.

So what I'm curious is, where does your dislike for the Vietnamese come from? Personal experience, or just something someone else told you?

[hotrungnghia]

Our CHXHCNVN respects Viet Nam country all riches manor upper subsistent busy nation, And Un- Which acting ki encroachs on ethnic rights, manor... forearm... failure