Chinese Military & Defense News Thread

[swimmerXC]

I'm sick of opening new threads each time there's news about PLA...

China staging high-tech joint military exercises
AFP , BEIJING
Saturday, Mar 04, 2006,Page 1

China is this week staging military exercises, Chinese state press said yesterday, coinciding with a spike in tensions with Taiwan and the start of the nation's annual parliamentary session.

The joint air force, army and navy exercises began on Wednesday and are aimed at simulating modern battle conditions using advanced information technology, the China Daily reported, without saying when they would end.

The People's Liberation Army Daily newspaper said the exercises were being carried out in the Shenyang, Guangzhou, Beijing and Chengdu military command regions, simulating the deployment of troops hundreds of kilometers away.

Photos posted on official government Web sites showed navy transport ships carrying tanks and armored personnel carriers, with the vehicles disembarking from the ships onto beaches.

The exercises began just after President Chen Shui-bian's (陳水扁) move to cease the function of the National Unification Council (NUC) and guidelines on Tuesday, a move that Beijing said would endanger peace in the Taiwan Strait and the Asia Pacific region.

Beijing has insisted that formal Taiwan independence would mean war and has strongly warned Chen from moving in that direction.

The state press did not link the exercises to the heightened cross-strait tensions but Joseph Cheng (鄭宇碩), a noted China watcher at the City University of Hong Kong, said they were meant to be a low-key signal to Taiwan.

"Certainly this is an attempt to put pressure on Chen," Cheng said.

"Military exercises are probably seen as an appropriate warning at this stage," he added.

Source (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2006/03/04/2003295644)

Same as Russian one? Or direct message to Chen?

[swimmerXC]

China's military budget jumps 14%
China has said it will increase its military spending by 14.7% this year to 283.8bn yuan ($35.3bn; £20bn).
However, a spokesman for the Chinese parliament said much of the rise would be to cover fuel and salaries and that China was a "peace-loving nation".

Jiang Enzhu said the US spent a greater proportion of its economy on defence and that China had "no intention of vigorously developing armaments".

The US has several times accused China of understating its military budget.

Neighbours' concerns

China's armed forces are the biggest in the world and have seen double-digit increases in military spending since the early 1990s.

The increases have caused concern for neighbours Japan and Taiwan.

The US has also expressed fears over the spending on the 2.5m-strong military.

Washington has several times accused China of understating its military budget.

It said last year's spend was not the $30bn stated but closer to $90bn.

China insists its spending is in line with rises in other governments.

Mr Jiang said: "China's defence budget has risen in recent years along with the development of its economy.

"But the proportion of the budget given over to defence spending is much the same as in past years."

China also says its military spending is dwarfed by the US. The US department of defence had a base budget of $400bn in 2005.

Mr Jiang said China's increases would go on salaries, new equipment, training and higher fuel costs.

He added: "I wish to emphasise that China is a peace-loving nation. China is committed to a path of peaceful development."
Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4773358.stm)

More toys for us!

[FuManChu]

Anyone want to guess what the real figure is? $40 billion? $50 billion? If SIPRI's 2004 figures are correct, it would be around $45 billion. So perhaps China's spending has now overtaken that of Japan's.....

I find it interesting that the budget is now increasing faster that the economy is growing. Is this in relations to the Taiwanese NUC, or was it always going to happen? And will such growth be natural from now on, or will it drop down next year?

[Troika]

Actually, the budget had been increasing (slightly) faster than the GDP for a few years now. Last year, for example, was 12%. They have seen great rise in wages and pensions and logistical equipment, however, so it is perhaps justifiable to say that most of increase goes to personnel and other non directly military applications. Without a detailed breakdown of the spending it is hard to say.

[Totoro]

RAND study also put last year's budget at around 40 something billion. So a true 45-50 billion budget for 2006 seems right. Imagine if every program gets a 14% increase.... how many more j10s per year would that make? :D

[FuManChu]

Actually, the budget had been increasing (slightly) faster than the GDP for a few years now. Last year, for example, was 12%.

Yes, I remember now - I had a look at the previous figures after I posted, but forgot to update my post.

They have seen great rise in wages and pensions and logistical equipment, however, so it is perhaps justifiable to say that most of increase goes to personnel and other non directly military applications. Without a detailed breakdown of the spending it is hard to say.

Well if we don't have a detailed breakdown of the spending then I don't think it is justifiable to say it's only spent on "non-threatening" things. ;) I'm sure that pay increases are part of the increases, but I doubt that most of the money is being spent just on such things. Otherwise where does China's shiny new planes, ships and tanks come from?

Personally I feel that China simply hurts its image by the lack of transparency over its budget. Everyone knows the figures are a fib, so why do they pretend that they're not spending so much? It's international "stock" might actually increase through being honest.

[Troika]

Yes, I remember now - I had a look at the previous figures after I posted, but forgot to update my post.



Well if we don't have a detailed breakdown of the spending then I don't think it is justifiable to say it's only spent on "non-threatening" things. ;) I'm sure that pay increases are part of the increases, but I doubt that most of the money is being spent just on such things. Otherwise where does China's shiny new planes, ships and tanks come from?

Personally I feel that China simply hurts its image by the lack of transparency over its budget. Everyone knows the figures are a fib, so why do they pretend that they're not spending so much? It's international "stock" might actually increase through being honest.

I never said it was so, but that it is non-direct military applications. And I think you will find that the speed of shiny new planes acquisition hadn't increased particularly quickly, and in the case of military hardware purchased from us it was not in the budget anyway. Taking into account the rise in pay scale, which we do know, and pensions, is why I believe most of it isn't on weapons but things like pay and logistics. This is not to say this does not increase the capability of the PLA, far from it, having good personnel and logistics is easily doing more for fighting ability than mere weapons, if judiciously applied.

As for increased stock... well, there are arguments on both sides. On one hand you allow much closer scrutiny on spending pattern, which is never a good thing, especially when same people perhaps forward the China threat theory anyway. On the other hand of course you have the benefits you described.

[MIGleader]

RAND study also put last year's budget at around 40 something billion. So a true 45-50 billion budget for 2006 seems right. Imagine if every program gets a 14% increase.... how many more j10s per year would that make? :D

Rand put last years budget at some $65 Billion. This may be a bit blown, but its mr\ore accurate than the pentagon. So this year, china may be spending nearly $75 billion, which is an awful lot. But considering how so many new weapons(j-10, type 99, yuan) have matured developemnt, this may be primarily targeted towards equipment aquisition along with offsetting rising gas prices.

[MIGleader]

China Holds Military Exercises Amid Taiwan Tensions
From Defencetalk news.

Quote:
"China is this week staging military exercises, state press said March 3, coinciding with a spike in tensions with Taiwan and the start of the nation’s annual parliamentary session.

The joint air force, army and navy exercises began on March 1 and are aimed at simulating modern battle conditions using advanced information technology, the China Daily reported, without saying when they would end.

The People’s Liberation Army Daily newspaper said the exercises were being carried out in the Shenyang, Guangzhou, Beijing and Chengdu military command regions, simulating the deployment of troops hundreds of kilometers away.

Photos posted on official government websites showed navy transport ships carrying tanks and armored personnel carriers, with the vehicles disembarking from the ships onto beaches.

The exercises began just after Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian scrapped unification guidelines with the mainland on Tuesday, a move that Beijing said would endanger peace in the Taiwan Strait and the Asia Pacific region.

Since nationalist armies fled to Taiwan following their civil war defeat to communist forces in 1949, China has viewed the island as a renegade province to be reunified, by force if necessary.

Beijing has insisted that formal Taiwan independence would mean war and has strongly warned Chen from making any moves in that direction.
The state press did not link the exercises to the heightened cross-strait tensions but Joseph Cheng, a noted China watcher at the City University of Hong Kong, told AFP, they were meant to be a low-key signal to the island.

”Certainly this is an attempt to exert pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” Joseph Cheng said.

”Military exercises are probably seen as an appropriate warning at this stage.”

Beijing needed to show it was being serious with Taiwan as delegates for the annual session of the National People’s Congress gather in the capital that starts on Sunday, he said.

At the same time, China would not want to ratchet up tensions too high and create a negative atmosphere for the summit between President Hu Jintao and his U.S. counterpart George W. Bush in Washington next month, he said ”Chinese leaders want Bush to understand that they are exercising restraint. By showing this, they are in a better position to get the Bush administration to put pressure on Chen Shui-bian,” he said.
China has previously staged much more intense military exercises in a bid to intimidate Taiwan’s independence movement.

The bullying tactic backfired spectacularly in 1996 when Lee Teng-hui, much-vilified by Beijing, won Taiwan’s first direct presidential vote despite missile tests intended to warn the island’s voters against supporting him."

Hope this produces some good pics:china:

[FuManChu]

Rand put last years budget at some $65 Billion. This may be a bit blown, but its mr\ore accurate than the pentagon. So this year, china may be spending nearly $75 billion, which is an awful lot. But considering how so many new weapons(j-10, type 99, yuan) have matured developemnt, this may be primarily targeted towards equipment aquisition along with offsetting rising gas prices.

Eh, you think RAND's more accurate than SIPRI? I thought the latter was more correct than the former. Do you have any specific reason to believe that the Chinese budget is so high, or does it just "make sense" given what the armed forces have been rolling out these last few years in terms of new systems?

[Troika]

I think it is that he does tend towards figure of SIPRI, since he considers the Rand figure 'a bit blown'. I too am thinking that. The figure of between 1.4 to 1.7 times the official one makes good sense considering the budgetary changes for research funds and arms purchase, though the Rand figure may be acceptable as upper limit.

[swimmerXC]

I made a news thread in another forum for more political envolved topics....
http://www.globaltalknetworks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=169995#post169995
WARNING DO NOT TALK ABOUT POLITCS OR ANY OF THOSE POLITICAL RELATED SUBJECT HERE, your post will be automatically deleted!

[swimmerXC]

Report: China plans to build carrier

Associated Press

HONG KONG (Kyodo) — The Chinese military is currently planning to build an aircraft carrier, a pro-Beijing daily in Hong Kong reported Friday.

”The Chinese army will conduct research and build an aircraft carrier and develop our own aircraft carrier fleet,” People’s Liberation Army Lt. Gen. Wang Zhiyuan was quoted as saying in the Chinese-language Wen Wei Po.

”An aircraft carrier is a very important tool for big countries defending their interests in the sea. China is a big country with a long shoreline. An aircraft carrier is necessary to defend our interests in the sea,” he said.
It would be China’s first aircraft carrier and would likely be deployed to join other warships currently in the South China Sea, the newspaper said.

Wang said the carrier fleet will not be complete for another three to five years.

The newspaper said aircraft fit for the carrier and auxiliary warships and submarines are either being built or completed.

It also quoted sources as saying China may deploy its aircraft carrier fleet near the energy fuel supply route in South China Sea where warships are now being deployed.

The barriers for China to build its own aircraft carrier include technology advancement, hardware and software support, building and maintenance costs and political pressure from overseas over China’s becoming a military threat in the region, the newspaper reported.

Source (http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1590111.php)

[MIGleader]

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_005180.php

China’s President Says Military Entering an ‘Important Period’

"Chinese President Hu Jintao has told a group of senior officers the next five years will be “an important period” for the nation’s military modernization, state media reported Sunday.

”The 11th five-year plan (from 2006 to 2010) is a crucial period for the establishment of a comparatively prosperous society,” Hu said Saturday, according to the People’s Daily, the Communist party’s mouthpiece.
”It is also an important period for defense and army modernization,” he told the officers, assembled in Beijing as delegates to the ongoing National People’s Congress, or parliament.

Meeting the officers in his capacity as chairman of the powerful Central Military Commission, Hu was wearing a simple green military jacket for the occasion.

His remarks came just days after China announced its military budget for this year would rise 14.7 percent to 35 billion dollars, the latest in a series of double-digit annual increases dating back to the early 1990s.

A Pentagon report last year estimated that China’s defense spending was two to three times the publicly announced figure and that the military balance with arch rival Taiwan was tipping in Beijing’s favor.
”We must persist in fulfilling the sacred task of defending national sovereignty, unity, territorial integrity and security,” Hu said, according to the People’s Daily.

This appeared to be a veiled reference to what is arguably the Chinese military’s main responsibility, deterring Taiwan from formally breaking away and forcing it back into the fold if it does declare independence.

China and Taiwan have been separated since the end of a civil war in 1949, but Beijing considers the island part of its territory awaiting reunification, by force if necessary.

Hu said efforts should be stepped up to equip the army with modern information technology and to improve its combat efficiency through high-tech means.

”We should strive to improve the capability of the armed forces to deal with crises, maintain peace, contain wars and win victory in possible wars,” he said.

Inspired by swift U.S. victories in post-Cold War conflicts, China has been striving to transform its military from an organization that relied on strength in numbers to a leaner, more sophisticated fighting force.

It announced in January it had demobilized 200,000 members of its military over the previous three years, but even after those personnel cuts, it remained the world’s largest with 2.3 million troops.

Hu is believed to be faced with the challenge of creating a loyal following among the nation’s top brass, just like his predecessor Jiang Zemin, who also had no military experience.

Jiang solved the problem by increasing military spending and appointing proteges to high positions in the military. "





I wonder what this is supposed to mean...
any idea's? It doesnt get too specific when it mentions china's military is going through a "Crucial period"

[swimmerXC]

China orders Russian equipment for J-11, but continues to develop local content

By Yihong Chang JDW Correspondent
Singapore

China remains heavily reliant on Russia for the local manufacture of J-11 air superiority fighter aircraft, but is expecting in 2006 to reach a production rate of 17 aircraft annually, according to Russian and Chinese sources.

A Chinese military source told Jane's that Russia's Ural Optical & Mechanical Plant signed an agreement with China in October 2005 for the procurement of a new batch of OSL-31E optical sight systems.

The source said the contract, for an undisclosed number of systems, was the first of its kind that the company has signed directly with China. Previous deals with China have gone through Russian export agency Rosoboronexport.

The order for more OLS-31E systems indicates that China cannot yet produce indigenous sighting systems for the J-11, which is based on Russia's Sukhoi Su-27SK fighter. China is still attempting to produce more indigenous elements for the J-11, including the fire-control radar, power plant and spare parts.

Source (http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw060314_2_n.shtml)

Part of the whole article, need full subscription to see it :mad:

[SampanViking]

Special Report: NPC & CPPCC Sessions 2006 >> Chinese Premier Wen meets press

BEIJING, March 14 (Xinhuanet) --

China pursues a national defense policy of self-defense, and its limited increase of military expenditure is mainly used to improve the living conditions of officers and soldiers and improve self-defense capability, said Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao here Tuesday.

The country's defense policy is transparent, said Wen, adding that China has never dispatched even one soldier abroad except its peacekeepers, and has not occupied one inch of foreign land.

Wen made the remarks while meeting with the press following the conclusion of the annual full session of the Chinese legislature, the Tenth National People's Congress.

The Chinese premier said China sticks to a road of peaceful development, which primarily results from China's traditional culture, development needs and national interests, emphasizing that China is already "a responsible country" of the international community.　

Wen added that through reform and development, China has successfully solved the problem of feeding 1.3 billion people and lifting 200 million out of poverty.

After years of efforts, China has found a more scientific development road, which stresses the resources conservation and environmental protection, he said.

China firmly carries out an independent foreign policy of peace, and is willing to develop good-neighborly relationships with surrounding countries, he said.

China has taken part in over 100 international organizations and signed nearly 300 international treaties, and is ready to work shoulder by shoulder with the international community for the establishment of a new international political and economic order.　

The premier said China is a country that firmly safeguard world peace, and resolutely oppose terrorism and nuclear proliferation.

After China's entry in the World Trade Organization, the country has faithfully fulfilled its commitments, the premier said.

Despite the fact that China is still a developing country, it has played an active role in implementing the millennium goal of the United Nations, said the premier, adding that China has reduced 20 billion RMB yuan of debts for 44 underdeveloped nations, and in the forthcoming three years, China is scheduled to provide 10 billion U.S. dollars of favorable loans for world's underdeveloped countries. Enditem

[tphuang]

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=060000&biid=2006032829898

A People’s Liberation Army’s bulletin in China reported Sunday that China succeeded in test launching an interceptor missile similar to the U.S. Patriot missile.

According to the paper, an air force base in Beijing recently test launched a new interceptor missile from a desert in northwestern China, successfully bringing down its target.

The test launch was carried out by the radar command control center, detecting a high-flying reconnaissance plane and a missile thousands of meters in the air, penetrating electronic disruption, and taking both of them down.

The Chinese military, with the success of the launch, plans to build a missile defense (MD) network similar to that of the U.S.

So far, China has criticized the U.S. MD system as disruptive of the international security order and provoking reckless military spending competition. However, China seems to have started research and development of interceptor missiles as the U.S. accelerates battle deployment in the Northeast Asian region, including Korea.

The commanding officer who led the test launch said, “This marks the official launch of the interceptor missile unit. We can intercept not only high-flying reconnaissance planes or missiles but also low-flying targets. Our accuracy is significantly high as well.”

Meanwhile, a Hong Kong newspaper reported that Chinese missile units have held mobile training aimed at taking down targets in a short time in the eastern coast and the desert.

This news looks a little suspective. I'm not sure how much validity in this and I'm not too sure what system it's talking about. I'm guessing HQ-9 or HQ-15 or HQ-18? It's hard to say.

[tphuang]

a little more news here.
BEIJING, Sept1, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- A senior Chinese military leader on
Friday pledged to further expand China-Peru military exchanges and cooperation.

Liang Guanglie, member of the Central Military Commission, made the remarks when
meeting with Felipe Conde, commanding general of the Air Force of Peruvian Armed
Forces.

"The two armed forces have kept frequent high-level exchange visits and friendly
cooperation in recent years," Liang told Conde, who arrived in Beijing on
Thursday.

China will make joint efforts with Peru to strengthen exchanges between the two
air forces, and gradually expand to various fields and levels, said Liang, who
is also Chief of the General Staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army(PLA).

Liang also spoke highly of the bilateral relations, saying the two countries
have shared a deepening political trust since the establishment of diplomatic
ties 35 years ago. The two sides have made substantial progress in many fields.

Liang expressed his appreciation for Peru's adherence to the one-China policy.
Conde said the Peruvian armed forces are willing to continue to enhance
cooperation with the Chinese army and he hoped to see closer exchanges between
the two sides in the future.

PLA Air Force Commander Qiao Qingchen attended the meeting.

At the invitation of Qiao, Conde is paying a nine-day official goodwill visit to
China from Thursday. Besides Beijing, he will also visit Xi'an, Guangzhou and
Shanghai.

[Sea Dog]

China increasing activity in Taiwan waters

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp?ID=89159&GRP=A

An increasing number of Chinese jets and frigates have trespassed into Taiwanese territorial waters, a defense report said yesterday, with the military earmarking funds to purchase F-16 fighter jets from the U.S.
The 2006 National Defense Report released yesterday said large numbers of Chinese military aircraft and frigates have been detected crossing into waters of the Taiwan Strait claimed by Taiwan or seas Taiwan has marked as its exclusive economic zones.

"The report reasoned that the Chinese Navy has been increasing its intelligence-gathering activities in the East China Sea," a Ministry of National Defense (MND) report said.

"(It is) a bid to ensure sea and air dominance to prevent intervention by the United States or Japan in the event of a war in the Taiwan Strait."

The report said China had stepped up military activities after the island's first presidential election in 1996.

It said Chinese military aircraft had crossed the imaginary middle line of the Taiwan Strait that separates Taiwan from China 1,100 times in 1999. The frequency increased to 1,200 in 2000 and further to 1,500 in 2001, the report said.

The frequency dropped to 1,300 in 2002 and further to 940 in 2004 but soared to 1,700 in 2005, the report said.

It also said Chinese scientific research vessels had increasingly been conducting exploration activities in the Taiwan Strait, with some trespassing in Taiwan's territorial waters.

Chinese military frigates have appeared frequently in the Taiwan Strait to gather sea and air intelligence and test the response time of the ROC Navy and Air Force, the report said.

It also said Beijing over the past several years repeatedly sent oceanographic survey ships into waters claimed by Japan. From April to September 2005, Japan's Air Force intercepted 30 Chinese planes trying to enter the country's air space.

In a separate controversial announcement, The MND is preparing to buy F-16 jet fighters from America next year, Deputy Defense Minister Kao Kuang-yi said.

This came as reports from Washington said its National Security Council and the State Department had recommended that the Bush administration reject the sale of the 66 fighter jets.

Defense Minister Lee Jye Jye said he met with U.S. representatives Monday to exchange views on this.

"Before things become clearer, the Ministry of National Defense will continue to work on its procurement plan," Lee said.

Kao said the ministry's budget proposal for the fiscal year of 2007 includes funds for a billion-dollar U.S. arms deal that has been blocked by the opposition-dominated legislature for over a year.

The opposition Kuomintang (KMT) and People First Party (PFP) have blocked the purchase originally valued at NT$610 billion for over a year. The deal includes anti-missile batteries, submarines and anti-anti-submarine aircraft.

Lee yesterday visited legislative speaker Wang Jin-pyng yesterday in a further attempt to gain his support. He also called on opposition law makers to support the deal.

" I hope lawmakers will rise above their political differences to help boost the nation's defense in the face of the growing military threat from China," Lee said.

Kao said this year's defense budget was NT$71 billion (US$2.16 billion), an increase from last year. But, he said, as the government's total spending was up by NT$90 billion, increased defense spending has not affected the budgets of other government departments.

He pointed out that the additional funds were mainly used in military investment and the ministry's daily operations. More than NT$20 billion was used to buy precision bombs and improve ammunition depots, he said.

The MND also said in its report that China had deployed 784 Dongfeng-series short-range ballistic missiles against Taiwan by the end of 2005.

According to the report, the missiles are capable of reaching Taiwan proper about seven minutes after launch.

[Schumacher]

Surprised not more has been talked abt this.

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/China_launches_one_more_intercontinental_ballistic _missile_20060906.php

From DefenceTalk.com

Missiles
China launches one more intercontinental ballistic missile
By Itar-Tass

URL of this article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/index.php
Wed, September 6th, 2006, 01:18

MOSCOW: China has carried out a regular test launch of a Dongfeng-31 intercontinental ballistic missile. Itar-Tass was told at the Russian Defence Ministry on Tuesday that "the Chinese side had notified the Russian Defence Ministry in advance about the upcoming launching of the intercontinental missile".

"The Dongfeng-31 missile was fired from the Wuzhai launch site towards the Taklimakan desert at about midnight on Monday", a Russian ministry official said. The head section of the missile, he added, flew approximately 2.5 thousand kilometres. The Russian space control
facilities had tracked the missile's start and flight.

The new Chinese intercontinental ballistic missiles will be put into service already this year. Improved longer-range Dongfeng-31A missiles areexpected to be commissioned in 2007. These two types of intercontinental silo-based ballistic missiles are compact systems, which can be moved by means of tractors along general-purpose roads.


Back to: Home | Forums | Gallery | Guestbook | Contact us

© Itar-Tass

[tphuang]

i'm not sure about that one. It doesn't seem to be in any other news item that searched for. Anyway, a little more on cooperation with other militaries, this one is with Cambodia.

BEIJING, Sept 6, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- A senior Chinese military leader
said here Wednesday that the Chinese armed forces are ready to enhance close
exchanges with the Cambodian army and continuously push forward their friendly
cooperative ties.

Liang Guanglie, chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation
Army (PLA), told visiting Secretary of the Cambodian Ministry of National
Defense Neang Phat, that Cambodia is China's good neighbor, partner and friend.

The two countries cooperate in various fields and hold close consultation in
international and regional affairs, which contribute to regional peace,
stability and development, said Liang, who is also a member of the Central
Military Commission.

Neang Phat expressed appreciation for the support that Chinese government and
armed forces have been offering to Cambodia, voicing the hope that the two sides
will cement exchanges and maintain cooperation in various areas.

"Cambodia will continue to pursue the one-China policy and support China's
reunification course," he said.

[tphuang]

we know it probably won't happen anytime soon, but that doesn't stop China from bringing it up, does it?

BEIJING (AFX) - China called today for the European Union to lift its arms
embargo on Beijing, but an analyst and EU official indicated no breakthrough was
likely during Premier Wen Jiabao's upcoming European summit.
European nations have been divided about the embargo, which was imposed
after the Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests in 1989, when hundreds of
unarmed demonstrators were killed by government troops.
"The EU side has many times confirmed that it would make efforts to lift the
arms embargo," said Li Ruiyu, deputy director-general of the foreign ministry's
European affairs department.
"We of course hope the EU will honour its commitments and make the political
decision to lift the ban at an early date. This will be conducive to the further
development of China-EU relations," he said.
He made the remark at a briefing about Wen's Sept 9-16 visit to Europe,
where he will attend a China-EU Summit and an Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM), as
well as make bilateral visits to Britain, Germany and Finland.
Li was asked if Wen would raise the embargo with European leaders. While he
did not answer that question directly, he repeated China's long-held position.
"The arms ban is a product of the Cold War. It is long outdated. For China
to ask for removal of the arms ban is to ask for a lifting of political
discrimination rather than seeking to increase weapons imports," Li said.
France is the prime supporter of lifting the ban, arguing it would be a
mostly symbolic recognition of China's growing clout.
But the United States and Japan are strongly opposed, fearing it could tilt
the strategic balance in Asia. The issue was shelved after European countries
disagreed on what to do.
Antti Kuosmanen, ambassador to China from Finland, which currently holds the
rotating EU presidency, suggested to reporters last week the time was still not
right.
"We see that the embargo is out of date and should be repealed and replaced
by the EU's own code of conduct for arms sales," Kuosmanen said.
"However, it seems that it is difficult to reach a solution on lifting the
arms embargo very quickly."
Feng Zhongping, director of the government think-tank China Institute of
Contemporary International Relations' Europe institute, indicated that China was
not expecting much progress on the issue during Wen's trip.
"The arms embargo issue is not yet mature," Feng told Agence France-Presse.
China will also again lobby for the EU to recognise it as a market economy
-- an important status which helps protect it against anti-dumping allegations
by its trading partners, Li said.
"We hope the EU will at an early date make a decision to recognise China's
full market economy status," Li said.
Kuosmanen, however, said last week that China did not meet all the technical
criteria.
He said one factor was that China was still not providing sufficient market
access to European companies doing business here, but that the EU hoped to find
a "mutually acceptable solution" as soon as possible.

[tphuang]

well, still no news on the real cause of the June aircraft crash, but at least some people are getting punished for it. If it wasn't an important platform like KJ-200, I don't think it would get reprimanded like this.

CHINA'S Central Military Commission has dismissed two high-ranking officers in
the People's Liberation Army and handed down lesser punishments to 16 other
senior soldiers for an air crash and a flood-related mishap that claimed dozens
of lives.
Zhang Guangjian, a regimental commander in the Nanjing Military Area Command's
air force, was dismissed over the crash of a transport plane, the commission
said yesterday.
The crash occurred on June 3 in eastern China's Anhui Province while it was on
a military mission, killing all 40 people aboard.
Details about the mission, the exact location of the crash and the identities
of the victims have still not been released.
But authorities did say icy conditions caused the plane to lose control.
Major General Jiang Jianzeng, deputy commander of the Nanjing military area and
also commander of the area's air force, received a strong reprimand that will
likely prevent further promotion, authorities said.
Guo Chunguang, air force deputy chief of staff, was demoted.
Wang Wei, the area's air force political commissar, and Yue Liu'an, deputy
director of the armament department, were given lesser reprimands.
Another six unidentified officers were also given reprimands and warnings.
Separately, seven officers were punished for neglecting their duties in
connection with a July 26 flash flood triggered by Typhoon Kaemi that swamped a
military barracks in eastern China's Jiangxi Province, leaving 48 people dead
or missing and injuring 60.
Chen Wei, deputy commander of a military regiment, was dismissed for failure to
respond immediately to the emergency.
Chen also faces an investigation by military prosecutors.
Wang Anli, a regiment chief, was demoted and five others were given reprimands
or warnings.
A notice issued by the Central Military Commission yesterday urged all PLA
units to intensify management and enhance the sense of responsibility among
their ranks.
``These factors are key to guaranteeing the safety of the troops as well as a
fast and sound development of military forces,'' it said.

[tphuang]

More analysis on the punishment of those involved in the two cases

The Central Military Commission announced this week that it has punished 11
officers in the People's Liberation Army over the crash of a military aircraft
in June which claimed 40 lives. Both the punishment and the publicity the
government has afforded the case are uncommon.
On 3 June a military transport plane came down in the mountains of Anhui,
killing all on board. The government has been content to accept the crash was
accidental; according to Xinhua news agency "the plane suffered icing on its
surface after flying through frigid air many times, resulting in a loss of
control and the crash". However, the punishments handed down on 7 September by
the Central Military Commission (CMC), the top military directorate which is
headed by President Hu Jintao, suggest there is much more to the story.
All the officers on trial belonged to the Nanjing Military Region (NMR)
under whose jurisdiction the crash occurred. The most high-profile figures to
be punished were Major General Jiang Jianzeng, air force commander in the NMR,
and the region's deputy political commissar Wang Wei, both of whom received
demerits. A regimental commander, Zhang Guangjian, was dismissed while the
deputy chief of staff for the region's air force, Guo Chinguang, was demoted.
Seven other officers from the NMR were either given demerits or warnings.
One suspicious aspect of the trial is that the punishments were unusually
severe even though the crash was due to technical rather than pilot error. The
government has made much of the fact that the composition of the crew violated
<MENU> to return to headlines. 89 n Govt T N I


PLA punished for China crash Page 2/4
military regulations; there were at least 20 senior military researchers on
board, which is three times more than is allowed. Nonetheless, the number of
officers punished this week seems excessive.
The question that the government is not prepared to answer is what all these
researchers were doing on a military transport plane. There is widespread
speculation that the aircraft was in fact a prototype version of an early
warning aircraft which China hopes will improve its reconnaissance
capabilities.
The loss of extremely valuable equipment and two dozen technical experts
will have dramatically set back the development of this capability; in this
context the CMC's desire for retribution is more understandable.
But the interest doesn't end there. The NMR, which covers the provinces of
Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui, Fujian, Jiangxi, is the most important of China's
seven military regions because its location means that it is in charge of the
PLA's primary objective: the capture of Taiwan. It is therefore important for
Hu not only that the NMR is the most effective military force possible but also
that he is fully in control of it.
It is worth noting that the 3 June accident was only the first of three
mishaps to befall military aircraft in the NMR within three weeks: fighters
crashed in Fujian on 12 June and 21 June respectively. A greater number of
crashes often indicates more training, but it can also suggest inadequate
<MENU> to return to headlines. 89 n Govt T N I


PLA punished for China crash Page 3/4
training planes or simply inadequate training.
President Hu registered his unhappiness at the state of the air force as a
whole when he became head of the CMC in 2004. The purge of the NMR could
represent an attempt to shake up the air force in China's key military region.
Alternatively, the purge might represent another stage in Hu's perennial
campaign to stamp his authority on aspects of state machinery previously
dominated by his predecessor as president and chairman of the CMC, Jiang Zemin.
Inevitably the NMR has strong links to Shanghai, which is not only the major
mainland city closest to Taiwan but is also the region's economic powerhouse
(significant because of the strong commercial links between the PLA and state
businesses) and Jiang's fiefdom.
Foreign reporters have been content to connect this week's prosecutions to
other moves Hu has made to increase accountability in the PLA, which have
ranged from a high-level crackdown on corruption announced in August to an
edict issued this week ordering officers in military-registered cars to respect
traffic laws.
But any story which incorporates secret military research, Taiwan,
Shanghai, and Jiang is inevitably more complicated than that.

[tphuang]

looks like there will be more military exercise in store between China and Russia. Although, this one should be much smaller in scale

Russia, China to hold joint anti-terror exercises in 2007 - Nurgaliyev

ISKITIM (Novosibirsk region). Sept 28 (Interfax) - The Russian
Interior Ministry and the Chinese anti-terrorist forces are planning to
hold joint tactical maneuvers at the Russian Interior Ministry's
Khatsavita mountain training center in the Krasnodar region in May 2007,
Russian Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev told reporters on Thursday.
He was speaking after Russian anti-terror exercises in Iskitim in
the Novosibirsk region, which were attended by observers from Chinese
law enforcement agencies.
The Russian Interior Ministry already has experience of similar
joint exercises with special task units from other countries,
principally CIS republics, Nurgaliyev said.
"We have successfully conducted similar exercises with our
colleagues from Belarus, Armenia and Tajikistan and will continue
building up international contacts in combating terrorism," he said.

[tphuang]

this time, the PLA delegation are meeting with the Germans


BEIJING, Oct 7, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- China and Germany launched an
eight-day seminar for senior military officers on security policies here
Saturday.

The seminar, second of its kind, was sponsored by China's Ministry of Defence.
Altogether 15 senior military officers from China and Germany will discuss
Chinese foreign policy, defence policy, military modernization, Taiwan issue as
well as other topics of common concern in the following days.

Chief of General Staff of China's People's Liberation Army Liang Guanglie and
Inspector General of Germany's Federal Defence Forces Wolfgang Schneiderhan
attended the launching ceremony of the seminar.

Liang said in his speech that China-Germany military relations have made
remarkable achievements in recent years. The first seminar, held in Berlin last
year, have exerted positive effects on deepening cooperation and boosting
understanding between the two armed forces.

"Hope officers attending the second seminar could fully exchange their views and
bring forward suggestions for the future development of bilateral cooperation,"
said Liang, who is also member of China's Central Military Commission.

Schneiderhan said the seminar is a "very good" way of exchange between German
and Chinese military officers. It is beneficial for the two armed forces to
expand consensus, coordinate stances and develop friendship.

He expressed his hope that the two sides could continue to hold such seminars in
the future.

According to the Ministry of Defence, the senior officers will also visit
Shanghai, China's economic hub in the east.

[tphuang]

more of this, this time is with New Zealand military.
http://english.people.com.cn/200610/13/eng20061013_311342.html

China and New Zealand on Thursday pledged to enhance high-level exchanges between the armed forces of the two countries.

"China-New Zealand military ties have deepened since the two countries established diplomatic ties 34 years ago." Chinese Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan told visiting Jerry Mataparae, chief of New Zealand's Defence Forces.

Bilateral military ties featured frequent high-level visits, a sound exchange mechanism and deep cooperation in specialized fields, Cao said.

Mataparae hailed the rapid development of bilateral military ties, citing progress in various military fields.

"China will further develop relations with New Zealand's Defence Forces based on deepened understanding and cooperation," Cao said.

Echoing Cao's remarks, Mataparae said New Zealand hoped to maintain frequent high-level exchanges and increase cooperation between the two armed forces.

Mataparae started an officially friendly visit to China on October 8 as the guest of Liang Guanglie, chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army.

[tphuang]

The British are dropping by for a port call.

SHANGHAI, Oct 19, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- A British Royal Navy ship "HMS
Westminster" arrived in Shanghai on Thursday afternoon on a five-day visit.

It is the eighth visit to Shanghai by British Royal Navy ships.

With 181 naval officers on board, the ship was greeted by Shen Changkang, deputy
chief of staff of the Shanghai naval base.

Neil Morisetti, the commander of the ship, met with Wei Zongpei, commissar of
the Shanghai naval base.

During their stay in Shanghai, naval officers will visit a frigate designed and
made in China, the city's landmark Oriental Pearl TV Tower and other scenic
spots. The naval officers of China and Britain will also battle it out in a tug
of war.

The "HMS Westminster" was launched in February 1992 and commissioned into
service in May 1994.

[tphuang]

not really widely discussed, but there is an anti-terror drill going on in China.

(XIN) China holds anti-terror drill Page 1/2
BAOTOU, Inner Mongolia, Oct 19, 2006 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- Chinese police,
armed police and People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers conducted a joint
anti-terror exercise in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region from
Tuesday to Thursday.

More than 2,700 troops from different divisions took part in the three-day drill
in Baotou, a major industrial city of China. The drill was designed to "deal
with real threats".

The drill demonstrated the achievements Inner Mongolia has made in anti-terror
work, said Li Wei, director of the Anti-terrorism Bureau of the Ministry of
Public Security.

As a frontier region, Inner Mongolia has an arduous task in fighting terrorism
and safeguarding local safety and social stability, Li said.

[bd popeye]

PLA delagation visits US military in San Diego

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=26393

Chinese Military Delegation Visits San Diego
Story Number: NNS061101-24
Release Date: 11/1/2006 4:08:00 PM

By Chief Mass Communication Specialist (SW/AW) Walter T. Ham IV, U.S. 3rd Fleet Public Affairs

SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- As part of a five-day tour of U.S. military bases in California and Hawaii, a Chinese military delegation visited the U.S. 3rd Fleet Command Center and the San Diego-based Guided Missile Destroyer USS Preble (DDG 88) here Oct. 30.

The delegation, consisting of 30 mid-level commanders from the People’s Liberation Army, also visited the I Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif., Oct. 31, before flying to Monterey, Calif., and Honolulu to tour other military installations and cultural attractions.

“We have many common security interests with the Chinese,” said 3rd Fleet Deputy Commander, Rear Adm. John R. Hines Jr., “and this visit is a great opportunity to increase mutual understanding, enhance cooperation and improve the lines of communication.”

This was the third Chinese visit to the U.S. Pacific Command area of operations in the last 12 months as a part of a program of visits between the United States and China. A delegation of mid-grade U.S. commanders visited the People’s Republic of China in March 2006.

“We are committed to stability in the Pacific Rim region, and we are positioning our naval forces accordingly. These visits provide the transparency needed to improve mutual understanding,” said Hines. “U.S. 3rd Fleet was proud to host these Chinese commanders here in San Diego and to show them what makes our military so great: the men and women who choose to serve and wear the uniform.”

Covering 50 million square miles, U.S. 3rd Fleet commands operations, training and theater engagement from the west coast of the United States to the International Dateline. 3rd Fleet is also the strategic enabler for Sea Shield and Sea Trial.

For related news, visit the Commander, U.S. 3rd Fleet Navy NewsStand page at www.news.navy.mil/local/c3f

[bd popeye]

USPACFLT commander visits the PRC

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=26570

PEARL HARBOR (NNS) -- Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet Adm. Gary Roughead arrived in China Nov. 11, making his first visit to the country as commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

During the week-long trip, Roughead is scheduled to call on the U.S. ambassador in Beijing and visit with China’s civilian and military leaders. He will also visit USS Juneau (LPD 10), which will be participating in a search and rescue exercise with the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy and making a port visit to the southern city of Zhanjiang.

“Enhancing our navy-to-navy relationships is especially important so we can cooperate in our many areas of mutual interest,” Roughead said. “Through routine dialogue and exercise, our navies can improve the ability to coordinate naval operations in missions such as maritime security, search and rescue, and humanitarian relief.”

Roughead’s visit to China and the upcoming search and rescue exercise build upon other recent activities, including the visit of PLA navy ships to U.S. ports, military personnel exchanges and a recent gathering of Western Pacific naval leaders in Honolulu.

Earlier this year, two Chinese navy ships -- the destroyer Qingdao (DDG 113) and oiler Hongzehu (AOR 881) -- visited Pearl Harbor and San Diego and completed the first phase of a two-part exercise between the two navies as agreed to in the Military Maritime Consultative Agreement.

The first phase consisted of communications and passing exercises off the coast of Oahu, Hawaii, Sept. 10 with USS Chung-Hoon (DDG 93) and a search and rescue exercise off the coast of Southern California Sept. 20 with USS Shoup (DDG 86). The second phase is to occur off the coast of China during Roughead’s visit.

These exercises contribute to improved working relationships and act as a foundation for increasing disaster responsiveness and promoting regional security.

The Pacific Fleet has an established record of working with regional navies. Earlier this month, Roughead hosted the 10th Western Pacfic Naval Symposium in Honolulu, a biennial gathering of naval leaders from the region, including China, that foster discussion on topics such as exercises, regional security, military exchange programs, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.

“We are all professional sailors,” Roughead said. “The Western Pacific Naval Symposium brings regional naval leaders together to discuss matters of importance and interest that lead to enhanced regional security and prosperity.”

[bd popeye]

More on the USN visit to the PRC

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=26653

USS Juneau, 31st MEU Arrive in China, Foster Military Relations
Story Number: NNS061116-10
Release Date: 11/16/2006 4:10:00 PM

By Marine Staff Sgt. Marc Ayalin, 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit Public Affairs

ZHANJIANG, China (NNS) -- Senior military officials from U.S. Pacific Fleet, Sailors of USS Juneau (LPD 10) and Marines from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) joined the efforts of strengthening relations with the Chinese military and local government after Juneau’s arrival here Nov. 15.

More than 900 Marines and Sailors embarked aboard Juneau, an Austin-class amphibious transport dock ship of the U.S. Navy’s Task Force 76, arrived here for a three-day port visit, and to participate in a joint search-and-rescue exercise (SAREX) between U.S. Navy and Marines and their Chinese counterparts.

Upon Juneau’s arrival, an officer’s call was held at the South Sea Fleet Headquarters here, where Adm. Gary Roughead, commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet, and China’s South Sea Fleet Commander, Vice Adm. Gu Wengen, met briefly for an informal discussion.

During the meeting, both Roughead and Wengen discussed naval infrastructure matters, the possibility of conducting submarine rescue exercises and the overall future relations between both countries’ navies. Roughead also explained to the Chinese the importance of Juneau’s arrival.

“I believe by having Juneau here gives our Sailors and Marines an opportunity to learn about your country and will bring our navies closer together,” said Roughead. “By working together, we can add to the security, stability and prosperity of the region.”

Wengen also agreed that fostering better relations is important for both countries’ militaries and that the relationship can affect its people.

“This exercise is really beneficial, not only for our armed forces, but it is a need between the relationships of our two countries,” said Wengen. “I hope we can expand these activities so we can build more mutual trust.”

Local government officials from Zhanjiang also welcomed Juneau and its crew.

“The people of Zhanjiang cherish your visit,” said Zhanjiang’s Deputy Mayor, Chen Ya De. “I would like to wish the military service members from the Juneau good health and a happy life.”

Marine Lt. Col. Marcus Annibale, officer in charge of more than 500 Marines from the 31st MEU embarked aboard Juneau, commented during the meeting with the deputy mayor.

“The Marines are looking forward to this port visit, but more importantly they feel a sense of mission, being the first Marine Corps unit since World War II to visit mainland China. They will have a tremendous opportunity to interact with the local people, as well as both the Chinese sailors and marines,” said Annibale, who is also an AV-8B Harrier pilot assigned to Marine Attack Squadron (VMA) 311. “The Marines will also attend semi-formal receptions and give static display tours of their equipment to guests aboard USS Juneau. We hope for an endstate of increased understanding and respect for each other’s service.”

Later that evening, Chinese officials hosted a welcome reception for more than 100 Marines and Sailors at a naval lodging facility where Roughhead and Wengen exchanged gifts as a symbol of appreciation and to a continued relationship between both countries.

The reception closed a day of military visits by commanders and staff, and allowed them the opportunity to establish relationships before the scheduled SAREX.

[bd popeye]

PLAN & USN excersise continues

http://english.people.com.cn/200611/19/eng20061119_323122.html

China, U.S. hold search-and-rescue exercise on South China Sea

The navies of China and the United States held a search-and-rescue exercise on the South China Sea on Sunday morning.

The exercise involved China's guided missile destroyer "Zhanjiang," fuel tanker "Dongting Lake," the USS Juneau (LPD 10) and the USS missile destroyer Fitzgerald.

China's Yun-7 transport plane and the U.S. P-3C patrol plane also participated in the exercise.

The two navies conducted communications, fleet formation changes and search-and-rescue exercises.

The basic idea behind the exercise was for the Chinese and U.S. navies to jointly locate a ship in danger and salvage it. The two sides commanded different stages of the whole exercise.

The Chinese side took charge of the communications and searching stage, while the U.S. side commanded vessels of the two countries to conduct the rescue.

The communications drills had been conducted at Saturday night in the waters east to the Zhanjiang Port.

The formation drill started on 7:30 a.m. and China's "Zhanjiang" and the USS Juneau completed four formation changes in about one hour.

On 9:25 am, the joint rescue excises began. The USS Juneau passed the order to the USS missile destroyer Fitzgerald to search for "Dongting Lake", the Chinese ship "in danger", after receiving Zhanjiang's signal for help.

The Yun-7 and P-3C were asked to help with the location mission.

On 10:25 am, the location of the ship "in danger" was confirmed and, about half an hour later, "the fire" on the ship was extinguished, the "damaged" ship body was fixed and the "injured" crew members received medical treatment.

"In the exercises, the two navies demonstrated very good military skills and strong cooperative spirits," said Gu Wengen, commander of the South China Sea fleet of the Navy Force of the People's Liberation Army.

"The exercise symbolizes more substantial cooperation between the armed forces of China and the United States, which is very important to the future development of bilateral military relations," said Qian Lihua, deputy director of the Foreign Affairs Office of Chinese Defense Ministry.

China has conducted search-and-rescue exercises with countries including Britain, France, Pakistan, India, Australia and Thailand. Sunday's exercise was the first ever held between China and the United States.

In the past, exchanges between the Chinese and U.S. armed forces have mainly focused on exchanges of high-level visits, personnel communication and regular consultations.

"The current search-and-rescue exercise is an important and substantial exchange activity between the two armed forces," Qian noted. "It has been of vital importance to expanding the Sino-U.S. military cooperation despite its limited scale in terms of troops and vessels."

Major General Peng Guangqian, a researcher at the Academy of Military Sciences, said the choice of search-and-rescue as the content of the exercise showed a trend towards more substantial cooperation between the two armed forces.

"Only if we make breakthroughs in cooperation at a lower level, we can further conduct more cooperation in some higher-grade areas including weapons and equipment technology and military drills in traditional security areas," he noted.

Visiting U.S. Pacific Fleet Commander Gary Roughead said, "The visit of the USS Jeneau is indicative of improved military relations and transparency between the People's Liberation Army navy and the U.S. navy."

He added that the exercise would be a good opportunity for the two armed forces to increase transparency.

China-U.S. military ties were broken off in 2001 when a Chinese fighter aircraft was damaged by a U.S. surveillance plane over the South China Sea, but relations between the two forces have been improving.

According to Qian, the two countries have carried out a series of exchange activities this year, with higher level personnel communications compared with the past.

This year has seen the most active Sino-US military exchanges in recent years, and the two sides are "satisfied" with both the quantity and the quality of the activities, Qian said.

The frequent joint military drills held between China and foreign countries in recent years show China has adopted an open approach in building its military, Peng said.

Sunday's exercise was the second phase of the first joint Sino-American search-and-rescue exercise.

The first phase, held in September this year, consisted of communications and passing exercises held in waters off Hawaii.

Source: Xinhua

[noone536]

man why all nation accused china of over spending i mean if you come to think about it they are just upgrading their cold war or worl war two stuff and they also need the money to feed the military also even thought people accused of china for spending to much. china army still need more money so their machine could be keep up so i think military budget should be raise closed to US so china could better their equipment

[tphuang]

a little preparation before the SCO exercise this year. Sounds pretty good to me.

MOSCOW. Jan 9 (Interfax-AVN) - Russian Ground Forces Deputy
Commander Col. Gen. Vladimir Moltenskoi left for China on Tuesday to
engage in preparations for a joint antiterrorist command-post exercise
(CPX) between armed forces from the Shanghai Cooperation Organization
(SCO) slated July 2007, Moltenskoi's aide Col. Igor Konashenkov told
Interfax.
"A group of Russian military experts led by Col. Gen. Moltenskoi
will hold the second round of consultations with SCO experts in Shanghai
on organizing a joint CPX in the Chelyabinsk region in the summer,"
Konashenkov said.
The consultations will deal with "a wide range of issues, from the
composition of the forces to be involved in the exercise to a plan of
delivering the military command bodies and the troops to the site of the
maneuvers," he said.
The first round of the talks on this issue took place in Moscow and
Chebarkul in the Chelyabinsk region in October 2006.
The exercises are to be held on the basis of the Volga and Urals
Military District.
Russia and China held the first joint antiterrorist exercises under
the codename Peaceful Mission on Shandong Peninsula in China in summer
2005. During the active phase of the maneuvers, the number of troops
engaged reached 10,000 people, including 1,800 Russians.
The SCO participants later decided to hold similar exercises in
2007 in a new format to involve all the member-states.
The SCO is comprised of Russia, China, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan,
Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan.

[wdl1976]

man why all nation accused china of over spending i mean if you come to think about it they are just upgrading their cold war or worl war two stuff and they also need the money to feed the military also even thought people accused of china for spending to much. china army still need more money so their machine could be keep up so i think military budget should be raise closed to US so china could better their equipment

It is all about maintaining Status Quo in the world order.

Changing world order made some people uneasy - to the point of being afraid :roll:

Some country will lose power and domination, other countries does not care as it is China's internal affairs. Some other countries welcomed it.

[SampanViking]

Tphuang
The exercises are to be held on the basis of the Volga and Urals
Military District.

Wow!!

I hope you guys understand the Political significance of Chinese Troops being deployed for Exercises West of the Urals ie in Europe.

This is something I have been waiting for and rather reinforces my view of the SCO being a proper strategic defensive alliance.

[FuManChu]

It is all about maintaining Status Quo in the world order.

Yep. If Japan scrapped Article 9 and started buying/building cruise missiles, aircraft carriers and the like, China would probably be very publicly stressed. They even felt the need to comment over it upgrading the Defence Agency to a ministry - even Germany has a defence ministry!

Whenever a country sees another as a potential strategic threat, when the gap is narrowed complaints will be often be made. Then again I'm not sure I've heard Europe make too much noise about Russia trying to revamp its armed forces.

[wdl1976]

Yep. If Japan scrapped Article 9 and started buying/building cruise missiles, aircraft carriers and the like, China would probably be very publicly stressed. They even felt the need to comment over it upgrading the Defence Agency to a ministry - even Germany has a defence ministry!

Whenever a country sees another as a potential strategic threat, when the gap is narrowed complaints will be often be made. Then again I'm not sure I've heard Europe make too much noise about Russia trying to revamp its armed forces.

I believe Rusia has been a traditional power house, and most the western europe defense (or at least left over from the cold war) were design and directed to stop an offense from the East. Basically they have a developed defense infrastructure to counter Rusia resurgence. Also Russia has big internal problems of their own at the moment, also the magic word "OIL" if western europe make to much noise a threat of closing the plug (and they will close the plug, it has happened a few times I think) would put them back in order. Politicians knew this, and they will not start something they can't win.

China on the other hands has a history of interference in other countries war to the point of sending armies to aid them and several invasions to other conuntries e.g. North Korea, Vietnam, India, Tibet supporting Nepals revolutioner etc etc. (I know the reason they intervene is to create a buffer and mainly protect the mainland) Honestly they are pretty successfull in these wars: Vietnam result in US defeat, Korea result in a stalemate. India was forced to withdraw from their border claim, Tibet fallen, Nepal in crisis.

This result from an "older and outdated" army. That means the potential of Red rising in the east should a megalomaniac goes back into absolute power (which is a possibility looking at the government structure) with a modern, well equiped and not to mention huge army. Would be ..... (finish the word yourself)

[kunmingren]

I believe Rusia has been a traditional power house, and most the western europe defense (or at least left over from the cold war) were design and directed to stop an offense from the East. Basically they have a developed defense infrastructure to counter Rusia resurgence. Also Russia has big internal problems of their own at the moment, also the magic word "OIL" if western europe make to much noise a threat of closing the plug (and they will close the plug, it has happened a few times I think) would put them back in order. Politicians knew this, and they will not start something they can't win.

China on the other hands has a history of interference in other countries war to the point of sending armies to aid them and several invasions to other conuntries e.g. North Korea, Vietnam, India, Tibet supporting Nepals revolutioner etc etc. (I know the reason they intervene is to create a buffer and mainly protect the mainland) Honestly they are pretty successfull in these wars: Vietnam result in US defeat, Korea result in a stalemate. India was forced to withdraw from their border claim, Tibet fallen, Nepal in crisis.

This result from an "older and outdated" army. That means the potential of Red rising in the east should a megalomaniac goes back into absolute power (which is a possibility looking at the government structure) with a modern, well equiped and not to mention huge army. Would be ..... (finish the word yourself)
:off

why do you assume that Chinese are power hungry maniacs bent on taking over the world? its hypocritical for you to criticize china's foregin policy history considering that US has been the biggest meddler in other people's buisness. Can you even name a US president that hasnt 'policed' a foreign country since WWII?

[wdl1976]

:off

why do you assume that Chinese are power hungry maniacs bent on taking over the world? its hypocritical for you to criticize china's foregin policy history considering that US has been the biggest meddler in other people's buisness. Can you even name a US president that hasnt 'policed' a foreign country since WWII?

I assumed nothing, if you read my comments earlier you will find.

"IF A MEGALOMANIAC COMES UP TO POWER"

Looking from world history a megalomaniac comes out once in a while from a destabilised country or region e.g Napoleon France revolution, Stalin Red October revolution, Hitler from the humiliation of Germany from world war 1.
Not to mention smaller ones from the countries no one cared about, but the country is too poor to make a global impact.

I also commented that invasions and Military assistance done were actually to protect mainland itself from the outside by creating a buffer zone around China. Anyone can see that China only intervenes directly to its neighbour.

Why USA militaristic, interventionist government was not considered a threat.
Just because they are the leader of the status quo.

If we continued this discussion in regards to USA I will guarantee you this discussion will lead to a political issue, so I will stop here.

In regards of Power Hunger and world domination, I never say they will or they was. I was only interpreting the current trend of Sino Phobia.
The base of their fear and not judging whether their fear is correct or not.
The problem with fear is caused by Mis information or not caring to find any information. Most people would judge based on what they heard not on what they can know. If you start researching into problems or fear etc you will find that it is not easy to make a judgement, nor it is easy to say one is right and the other is wrong. No such thing as right or wrong. There is only the lesser of evil or good.

[kunmingren]

I assumed nothing, if you read my comments earlier you will find.

"IF A MEGALOMANIAC COMES UP TO POWER"

Looking from world history a megalomaniac comes out once in a while from a destabilised country or region e.g Napoleon France revolution, Stalin Red October revolution, Hitler from the humiliation of Germany from world war 1.
Not to mention smaller ones from the countries no one cared about, but the country is too poor to make a global impact.

I also commented that invasions and Military assistance done were actually to protect mainland itself from the outside by creating a buffer zone around China. Anyone can see that China only intervenes directly to its neighbour.

Why USA militaristic, interventionist government was not considered a threat.
Just because they are the leader of the status quo.

If we continued this discussion in regards to USA I will guarantee you this discussion will lead to a political issue, so I will stop here.

In regards of Power Hunger and world domination, I never say they will or they was. I was only interpreting the current trend of Sino Phobia.
The base of their fear and not judging whether their fear is correct or not.
The problem with fear is caused by Mis information or not caring to find any information. Most people would judge based on what they heard not on what they can know. If you start researching into problems or fear etc you will find that it is not easy to make a judgement, nor it is easy to say one is right and the other is wrong. No such thing as right or wrong. There is only the lesser of evil or good.

sorry chap, i guess i read your post wrong, my fault.

[BLUEJACKET]

Multinational fleet ends rescue drill led by Chinese navy (http://english.people.com.cn/200703/10/eng20070310_356143.html)

The two-hour operation under the command of the Chinese navy was part of a larger military exercise involving Bangladesh, China, France, Italy, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
It was the first time for the Chinese navy to lead and coordinate a multinational drill on such a scale, said Luo.
Although there were 12 vessels from eight countries, the communication and coordination went smoothly and they all performed professionally, Luo said of the operation.
The multinational naval exercise AMAN-07, or Peace-07, runs from from March 6 to 13.
Source: Xinhua

[Jeff Head]

Vietnam result in US defeatI will take issue with this.

The US withdrew it is true, but they did so starting in 1972 after abjectly bombing the North Vietnamese to the Peace Talks and forcing North Vietnam into an agreement, that at the time was a very postive outcome for the US and South Vietnam. At that point, for all intents and purposes, the US and South Vietnam had won...they had forced the end of the fighting on favorable terms. For all intents and purposes the Viet Cong at that time were finished, and the North ceased its activity in the South.

Two years later, when the North invaded the South, in violation of the terms of the agreement...the US simply kept withdrawing and did not counterattack. Other than some air support to retreating South Vietnamese forces, or those who stood and fought, the US did not commit any troop strength to stopping the invasion. That was a political decision...not any type of military defeat. While the US fought, they prevailed.

Quite frankly, IMHO, from a long term state department and impact on US allies around the world, the decision to not assist its allies when they were being invaded in violation of a signed agreement, was a disaster for US foreign policy that lingered and was a dark cloud over the US for many years. Reagan helped address some of it, but it did not really dissipate until the Gulf War in 1991.

Having lived through those years, I can tell you that this is actually what happened. Yes, there was a lot of opposition to the war here in the states, but most of that ended with the end of the draft. The US administration at the time, under Nixon, despit his other failings, took the war in the air to the North Vietnamese and prevailed. Two years later, the decision was made by a new administration to simply cease involvement. A lot of people friendly to the US died or were imprisoned in the worst of conditions imaginable over that decision, not to mention the images of US helicopters leaving as fast as they could as Saigon fell. It was a dark day for the US and has sown, justafiably so, lingering seeds of doubts in allies ever since.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[BLUEJACKET]

NVA aside, there was popular discontent toward unpopular & corrupt regime in Saigon- IMHO, without it N.Vietnam wouldn't have risked invading, after those events you described! The US decided it wasn't worth proping up S.Vietnam anymore- and indeed, SE Asia hadn't fallen to communism with the ecception of Laos & Cambodia. Now, we have active trade with Vietnam, direct airlinks, ship visits to Cam Rahn, and diplomatic relations- while that country is still ruled from Hanoi under the same NVA flag!

[fishhead]

The Vietname war was all about China. But after Nixon visited Beijing, the war is irrelevent to the American interest, so the withdraw is inevitable.

The interesting thing is that US involvement in Vietname was based on the Domino theory, and it did happen. After the war Vietname almost annexed the Lao and Cambodia, and started to attack Thailand.

And it was China that checked the Vietname, what a history!

[bd popeye]

Members! If you would like to discuss the Vietnam War, either the US or PRC involvement please take your discussion to one of these threads. Thank you!:)

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=936&page=4&highlight=Vietnam

Or;

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1764&page=2

Thank you!

bd popeye super moderator

[bd popeye]

I found this article intresting. I think it is time for the PLAN to step up it's maritime patrols. The pictures are from navy.mil of course:)

US asks China to help maintain global maritime security
Agence France-Presse | Apr 5, 2007

The United States on Wednesday asked China to join a global effort to maintain international maritime security, as the Pentagon welcomed Beijing's navy chief Vice Admiral Wu Shengli on a rare visit.

Admiral Michael Mullen, the US chief of naval operations, called on Wu to consider "China's potential participation in global maritime partnership initiatives" during talks at the Pentagon, his spokesman, Commander John Kirby, told AFP.

Mullen was referring to the "1,000-ship Navy" concept, first proposed at an international seapower symposium in 2005, aimed at building -- on a voluntary basis -- a transnational network of navies, the shipping industry and law enforcement agencies to respond to crises or emergencies at sea.

The idea was tossed by two American admirals following the rapid international responses to the Asian tsunami in December 2004.

The United States, India, Australia and Japan, the four most powerful democratic nations in the Asia-Pacific region, joined hands in a swift operation to help in relief work during the disaster.

Wu "expressed interest" in the 1,000-ship Navy plan and "shared concerns in maritime security both regionally and globally," Kirby said.

The Chinese admiral "asked for more information" about the plan "so that he would better acquaint himself about it," he said.

Wu is on his first overseas visit since taking over the helm recently and the Washington trip comes just after the Beijing visit by General Peter Pace, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, aimed at boosting US-Sino military ties.

Mullen and Wu discussed "issues of mutual concerns", Kirby said, adding that the talks "contributed to a greater sense of transparency between the two leaders and our two navies."

Mullen, speaking at a Washington forum on Tuesday, noted that the Chinese were shifting from a "land-centric force to an air-centric and naval-centric force and clearly that force and capability has the potential to focus very much on the United States navy.

"So, clearly, those kind of technological investments have my attention," he said.

Mullen said the key was building up ties with China to better understand the nation as Washington had been doing particularly over the last couple of years.

"The key strategic issue for me is to have this relationship, understand strategic intent" and emphasizing about "transparency in what that strategic intent is."

Senior US officials have spoken critically of China's military budget, expressing concerns that the Chinese are under-reporting its size and that it is expanding too quickly.

China announced last month a 17.8-percent rise in military spending for this year to 45 billion dollars.

US Vice President Dick Cheney said last month that China's military build-up and its successful knocking out of one of its ageing satellites with a ballistic missile in January were "not consistent with Beijing's stated goal of a 'peaceful rise.'"

The Pentagon is soon expected to submit its annual report to Congress on China's military power.

Wu, who flew into Hawaii at the weekend, had an honor ceremony at Naval District Washington headquarters Wednesday before talks at the Pentagon.

On Thursday, he will visit the Naval Academy and on Friday make a trip to the fleet concentration area in Norfolk before returning at the weekend, said Pentagon spokesman Lieutenent Commander Jeff Davis

Pictured below;
Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Mike Mullen speaks with Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Wu Shengli after a Full Honors Ceremony at the Naval Museum in Washington, D.C. on April 4, 2007 and presents him with a commemorative plaque.

[bd popeye]

General Wu Sheng Li will now visit the US Navy Norfolk VA naval bases. The largest concentration of naval forces in the world.

I apoligize for the US DoD refering to the General as an admrial.

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=122326&ran=10697

Top Chinese admiral scheduled to visit Norfolk
By JACK DORSEY, The Virginian-Pilot
© April 5, 2007 | Last updated 11:13 PM Apr. 4

NORFOLK - A top Chinese admiral is scheduled today to visit Norfolk, where the U.S. Navy's largest concentration of forces is based.

Vice Adm. Wu Sheng Li, chief of naval operations, will remain in Norfolk through Saturday, a spokesman for U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Mullen said Wednesday.

The visit was initiated by the former head of the Pacific Command, Adm. William J. Fallon, who now heads Central Command, Mullen said.

In a televised presentation before the Brookings Institution on Tuesday, Mullen said he wants to be able to pick up a telephone and directly call the Chinese military leader during a potential emergency.

He mentioned an incident in October, when a Chinese submarine apparently trailed the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk undetected before surfacing nearby, risking a confrontation.

Wu met in November with Adm. Gary Roughead, Pacific Fleet commander, in Beijing, where Roughead said he hoped to better understand the intentions behind China's recent naval buildup.

The Chinese admiral was in Washington on Wednesday meeting with Mullen and other Navy officials, said Cmdr. John Kirby, a spokesman for Mullen. His visit to Norfolk will be a quiet one with no news coverage allowed, according to a spokesman for Fleet Forces Command, headquartered here.

The Navy declined to disclose Wu's itinerary while here.

• Reach Jack Dorsey at (757)446-2284 or jack.dorsey@pilotonline.com.

[szbd]

This 1000 ship thing is on Chinese newspaper now.

http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/2007-04-09/1126438927.html

Seems the response is not positive. There's no official stance announced yet, but a "name undisclosed expert" from navy command academy (海军指挥学院，the top academy in PLAN) said it's basically a US idea for her own interest. One country will have to sign agreement with US for joint use of base, intellegience, logistcs, etc. I guess what he meant is if you don't want to use US facilities and don't want US to use your facilities, you'd better not join this plan.

[tphuang]

This is just another Russian paper stating what we already know, that China is not buying any more Russian military hardware. They still claim it's because Russia is not sharing their top stuff to China. But in reality, it wouldn't matter imo whether or not they chose to share their "top stuff".

he may meeting of the Russian-Chinese Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation has been postponed again, this time until autumn. In Moscow, they are saying that the change is due to changes in the personnel on the commission. In Beijing, they say it is due to the need to make improvements under current contracts. The real reason is most likely the substantial reduction in military-technical cooperation between Russia and China, which has lost exhausted potential in its current form.
Kommersant learned of the postponement of the commission meeting in the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation. “The reason is purely technical,” it was explained there, “a change of commission chairmen.” At the end of March, Sergey Ivanov, now first deputy prime minister, was replaced by new Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

Sources in the Russian defense industry have suggested to Kommersant that there is another reason the meeting is not being held. They say that they meeting was moved back by Beijing, which is demanding that improvements to Russian weapons be made under current contracts after Chinese testing. In particular, the test firing of a Moskit missile installed on a Project 956EM cruiser last year was a problem, as was the firing of a Club-S on a Project 636 vessel.

A source in the Russian government called claims made by the Chinese Defense Ministry groundless. “It was just a technical failure that the Chinese are taking advantage of to pressure us in negotiations on other topics. Both systems – the Moskit and the Club-S, have been tested and are in mass production,” the source said.

The endless postponement of the commission meeting must have more serious causes then. Military-technical cooperation between Russia and China, which has exhausted its potential in it current form, is being substantially reduced, if not completely cut out.

In the 1990s, many Russian defense enterprises were kept alive almost exclusively by Chinese contracts. Between 1992 and 2006, when total Russian arms exports amounted to $58.4 billion, China took delivery of about $26 billion worth military equipment and weapons. Today the situation has changed. “Russia has significantly expanded its arms deliveries geographically, so there is no loner a critical need for Chinese purchases,” explained Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology. Last year and at the beginning of this year, large-scale agreements were reached with Algeria ($7.5 billion), Venezuela ($3 billion) and India ($2.6 billion) and contracts with Libya (up to $2.2 billion) and Syria ($2-3 billion) being prepared.

China has lost much of its interest in purchases of Russian military equipment. In the 1990s, Beijing did not have much choice. After the West imposed an arms embargo on China because of the events at Tiananmen Square in 1989, China had to satisfy its weapons needs with Russian orders. Having purchased a large amount of Russian weapons in the last 15 years, China no longer needs significant supplies. A sign of this was Beijing's pullout several months ago from negotiations for the purchase of four Zubr troop-carrying hovercraft worth $210 million. Negotiations on the delivery of up to 48 Su-33 anti-ship aircraft for $2.5 billion have slowed down. Up to 70 percent of Russian military exports went to China in the second half of the 1990s. In 2006, China's share had fallen to 40 percent, and it is expected to be 17-20 this year.

“The Russian military-industrial complex mainly supplied China with arms developed in Soviet times,” Andrey Karneev, deputy director of the Institute of the Countries of Asia and Africa, told Kommersant. “Now that reserve has been exhausted. The Chinese want to receive more modern systems from Russia. But Russia won't include missile technology in the sphere of cooperation for understandable reasons.” Alexander Lukin, director of the Center for Asiatic Studies at the Moscow State Institute of Foreign Relations explained that “We have already armed China more than once. In the 1960s, those weapons were used against our border forces. That does not mean that nothing of the kind will happen again, but there remains a certain caution in relations with China, and so Russia doesn't want to sell it its newest weapons.”

The matter will not reach a full stop to Russian-Chinese military technology cooperation. “We most likely will supply parts for systems China has already bought for a long time, Karneev observed. In addition, Beijing is not ready to cut military technology cooperation with Moscow fully either. The United States and European Union have not removed the embargo on weapons sales yet. And Israel, under pressure from Washington, is also refusing to sell China its latest weapons.

[szbd]

Well, at least their top nuclear sub stuff could be very useful for us. And seems we can forget about the zubr deal now, right?

[tphuang]

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BDC0384BB-D7B9-4563-B80B-D967C076F332%7D)&language=EN
This is kind of interesting, mentionning military cooperation between China and Argentina. Also mentions sale of military truck to Argentina. They also mentionned helicopter on Chinese forums. Could be a start of Chinese exports to South America?

[szbd]

Argentina hasn't got any new important weapons for 2.5 decades. Most of the Chinese new stuff are good enough for them. This is a good bussiness oppertunity. Just do not know how China will handle her relationship with Britain.

[Ryz05]

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BDC0384BB-D7B9-4563-B80B-D967C076F332%7D)&language=EN
This is kind of interesting, mentionning military cooperation between China and Argentina. Also mentions sale of military truck to Argentina. They also mentionned helicopter on Chinese forums. Could be a start of Chinese exports to South America?

I think the South Americans are seeking another country to counter the American dominance. The same thing is happening in Southeast Asia, where many countries seek to improve relations with the US military against a rising China.

[goldenpanda]

Pictured below;
Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) Adm. Mike Mullen speaks with Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Wu Shengli after a Full Honors Ceremony at the Naval Museum in Washington, D.C. on April 4, 2007 and presents him with a commemorative plaque.

PLAN got some impressive looking commanders. From the photos it might seem like it's China that got the twenty times more powerful navy ;)

[szbd]

I believe Argentina can have the ability to secure that islands with several billions US dollar of investment on Chinese weapons and some of their own efforts.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

PLAN got some impressive looking commanders. From the photos it might seem like it's China that got the twenty times more powerful navy ;)

lol Did you notice the chubby fellow with glasses? The bald old man also fails to make quite an impression on me. But that other commander looks like he could be a commander from a war movie... The American commander pictured does not seem very masculine at all.

[Roger604]

Yeah that guy looks like an accountant, not like what you would expect from a USN Admiral!

Imagine, a guy who looks like an accountant commanding the most powerful naval force in world history!

[bd popeye]

Yeah that guy looks like an accountant, not like what you would expect from a USN Admiral!

Imagine, a guy who looks like an accountant commanding the most powerful naval force in world history!

And I will also be off topic.:D This is just an :off response to the previous post.

USN CNO Mike Mullen is a no nonsense type of leader. Looks can be decieving. He was chosen strictly on his merit as a commander.

I doubt that very few naval officers in the entire world have as much experience as ADM Mullen......

Admiral Michael G. Mullen

A native of Los Angeles, Calif., Admiral Mullen graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1968. He has served in Allied, Joint and Navy positions, overseas and in both the Atlantic and Pacific Fleets.

As a junior officer, he served in various leadership positions aboard USS Collett (DD 730), USS Blandy (DD 943), USS Fox (CG 33) and USS Sterett (CG 31). Adm. Mullen commanded three ships: USS Noxubee (AOG 56), USS Goldsborough (DDG 20), and USS Yorktown (CG 48). As a Flag Officer, he commanded Cruiser-Destroyer Group Two and the George Washington Battle Group. Adm. Mullen's last command at sea was as Commander, U.S. Second Fleet/Commander, NATO Striking Fleet Atlantic.

Ashore, Adm. Mullen served as Company Officer and Executive Assistant to the Commandant of Midshipmen at the U.S. Naval Academy. He also served in the Bureau of Naval Personnel as Director, Surface Officer Distribution and in the Office of the Secretary of Defense on the staff of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation. On the Chief of Naval Operations' staff, Adm. Mullen served as Deputy Director and Director of Surface Warfare; Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Resources, Requirements, and Assessments (N8); and as the 32nd Vice Chief of Naval Operations.

Adm. Mullen graduated from the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., with a Master of Science degree in Operations Research. He is also a graduate of the Advanced Management Program at the Harvard Business School.

Adm. Mullen's last operational assignment was Commander, Joint Force Command Naples/Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Europe. Based in Naples, Italy, he had operational responsibility for NATO missions in the Balkans, Iraq, and the Mediterranean as well as providing overall command, operational control, and coordination of U.S. naval forces in the European Command area of responsibility.

Admiral Mullen became the 28th Chief of Naval Operations on July 22, 2005.



The guy can't help it if he looks like your next door neighbor..:D

Enough said.

[goldenpanda]

I'm sure Adm Mullen is extremely dedicated and skilled. Chinese have much more to fear from him, than from some prima dona like MacArthur.

[Schumacher]

China, US militaries seem to be finally setting up a hotline. Gates seems to have better things to say about Sino-US ties compared to the more outspoken Rumsfeld in the same forum 2 years ago.

Does anyone know if US & USSR had such 'hotline' during the cold war ?

Title : US, China take pains to cool military dispute
By :
Date : 02 June 2007 1538 hrs (SST)
URL : http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/279871/1/.html

SINGAPORE : The United States and China turned down the heat Saturday in a simmering dispute over Beijing's military build-up, with US Defence Secretary Robert Gates expressing optimism about future relations.

Gates called for a more detailed military dialogue with China to avoid future miscalculations, while a top Chinese general said Beijing was prepared to open a "hotline" with Washington.

The comments from the two officials, both of whom were attending an Asian security conference in Singapore, came in the wake of a Pentagon report that questioned the motivation behind Beijing's drive to modernise its military.

Gates downplayed past US rhetoric on China's military might, alluding only in passing to the Pentagon report by reiterating Washington's concerns over "the opaqueness of Beijing's military spending and modernisation programmes."

"But as General Pete Pace, our chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, pointed out, there is some difference between 'capacity' and 'intent.' And I believe there is reason to be optimistic about the US-China relationship."

"As we gain experience in dealing with each other, relationships can be forged that will build trust over time," Gates said.

His mild tone contrasted with that taken by his predecessor Donald Rumsfeld, who used the same forum two years ago to sharply question China's intentions in building up its military.

Later in a question-and-answer session, Gates said dialogue could be a useful tool in helping countries with differing ideologies to understand each other better, referring to Washington's Cold War-era negotiations with Moscow.

"While we have no conflict at this point, this kind of transparency, this kind of discussion is the kind of thing that prevents miscalculation, and helps each side understand where the other is headed and what its intentions are," Gates said.

"That kind of dialogue, whether or not it involves specific proposals for arms control or anything else, I think is immensely valuable, and I think is one of the great assets of developing the military-to-military dialogue between the United States and the People's Republic."

For his part, Lieutenant General Zhang Qinsheng, the Peoples Liberation Army's military intelligence chief, defended the buildup but said Beijing was "gradually making progress" in meeting US demands for greater openness.

He said China would finalise arrangements for a "hotline" with Washington in September when the two sides meet for annual defence talks, satisfying a long-standing US objective.

Zhang, the highest ranking Chinese military officer ever to attend the conference, also insisted that Beijing's strategic "intent" was purely defensive, saying: "China shall never fire the first shot."

But he denounced the Pentagon's recent report that detailed Beijing's drive to acquire warships, aircraft and missiles as a "product of the Cold War mindset" that sought to foster the view that China is a threat.

"This report is unreliable; it's not to be believed," Zhang said.

Zhang and Gates both spoke at the Shangri-La Dialogue, an international conference on Asian security organised by London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, an independent think tank.

The general said China's declared US$45 billion defence budget was "true and authentic".

The Pentagon estimates China's military spending is really two or three times that much.

Responding to US charges that its projected military force goes beyond what it needs to defend itself, he said China needed a "proportionate military capability" for a country of its territorial size and population.

"China also has another problem, which is the Taiwan issue," he said, speaking through an interpreter.

"Some people in Taiwan are still dreaming about secession. So China's military must be prepared to cope with this kind of threat. If anything happens, China's military must be prepared to respond."

"China will try everything, including diplomatic, political, economic and even military force to defend the territorial integrity of China to prevent Taiwan secession," he said.

China considers Taiwan part of its territory awaiting reunification.

Gates also used his speech to rebut perceptions that the United States has become too bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan to focus on East Asia.

"We are an Asian power with significant and long term political, economic and security interests," he said. "Our commitments elsewhere notwithstanding, we will fulfil our commitments in Asia." - AFP/ch

[bd popeye]

Does anyone know if US & USSR had such 'hotline' during the cold war ?


Yes there was a hotline between the White House and Kremlin. The phone was actually red in color. And it was used extensively during the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962.

[The_Zergling]

Yes there was a hotline between the White House and Kremlin. The phone was actually red in color. And it was used extensively during the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h2587.html

Um Popeye, I've read that it was established AFTER the Cuban Missile Crisis, sometime in 1963.

[Schumacher]

Yes there was a hotline between the White House and Kremlin. The phone was actually red in color. And it was used extensively during the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962.

But I remember the movie '13 days' I think by Kevin Costner, there was no communications with the Kremlins which made the situation more tense & they had to use back door channels to communicate their intentions to avoid the 'hawks' in both US & USSR. Maybe the movie just made stuffs up ?

[bd popeye]

But I remember the movie '13 days' I think by Kevin Costner, there was no communications with the Kremlins which made the situation more tense & they had to use back door channels to communicate their intentions to avoid the 'hawks' in both US & USSR. Maybe the movie just made stuffs up ?

Humm. I think Schumacher maybe correct on this. But I'm almost sure there was some direct line of communication between the White House and Kremlin.
Maybe I'm wrong. Won't be the last time!:o :)

Years ago (1982)there was a TV mini series about the Crisis and they claimed to be using White House transcripts for the actual dialoug. Seems I remember someone talking to the Kremlin through a translator...

[Schumacher]

In the movie, they communicated thru a Russian spy in US who had close relations with Khrushchev.
'13 days' is one of my favourite movies. I've always liked 'non-fiction' better. Another favourite is 'Apollo 13' by Tom Hank & I sometimes mixed up these 2 movies. :)

Speaking of show business .... I just heard Mr Gates speech at the forum above on the news few mins ago. No disrespect whatsoever, but just an observation that he sounds a lot like the guy JR Ewing, Larry Hackman I think, of the 70s-80s series 'Dallas'. I bet Mr Gates is a Texan.

[zaky]

In the “Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb” (1964) movie they used direct telephone line between Moscow end the bunker.
This is one of the best early cold war movie.
:D

[Schumacher]

This story was printed from channelnewsasia.com


Title : India, China to conduct first joint army exercises
By :
Date : 07 June 2007 1540 hrs (SST)
URL : http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/280791/1/.html

NEW DELHI : India and China have agreed to hold their first ever joint army exercise as part of a wider effort to improve ties between the one-time Asian enemies, military officials said Thursday.

The manoeuvre is slated for October and will see 100 Indian troops sent to China for a workout in anti-terrorism tactics, the Indian army chief, General J.J. Singh, was quoted as saying by the Indian Express newspaper.

"We had a small thing earlier - not an exercise but a mountaineering expedition - two years ago," army spokesman Colonel S.K. Sakhuja told AFP.

The agreement comes after the army chief visited China at the end of May, which the defence ministry said had led to a decision on "engagement and mutual confidence building" including more joint training exercises.

The two nations - who fought a brief but bloody border war in 1962 - conducted joint naval exercises in the East China Sea in 2003, but otherwise contacts between two of the world's largest armed forces have been scant.

India says China occupies 38,000 square kilometres (14,670 square miles) of its territory, while Beijing claims 90,000 square kilometres, or the whole of the northeastern Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh.

Diplomatic contacts between the two economic rivals have increased in recent years, with many bilateral visits and two-way trade touching two billion dollars a month. - AFP/ch




Copyright © 2006 MCN International Pte Ltd
<< back to channelnewsasia.com

[yehe]

Guys, I think this hotline is different from the one between Kremlin and Whitehouse, this is a military hotline, I thought there is a political hotline between ZhongNanHai(Chinese leadership residence, old imperial palace) and WhiteHouse for several years already.

[Jeff Head]

Guys, I think this hotline is different from the one between Kremlin and Whitehouse, this is a military hotline, I thought there is a political hotline between ZhongNanHai(Chinese leadership residence, old imperial palace) and WhiteHouse for several years already.Yes, Clinton kept the PRC hotline in his private quarters so if any visiting female high ranking Chinese official needed to use it, it could quickly and easily be found. :p

But I believe Bush has since moved the PRC hotline to the kitchen. :nono:

Hehehe...it's a joke guys, just a joke. :D

[Tasman]

Hehehe...it's a joke guys, just a joke. :D

But it is a good one! :D

Cheers

[bd popeye]

PAP rescues 217 citizens held as slaves

Slavery still exist worldwide in diffrent forms. Outstanding job by the PAP to rescue their fellow citizens.:china:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070614/ts_afp/chinaslaverychildren

Police rescue 217 'slaves' in China

BEIJING (AFP) - Police said Thursday they had rescued more than 200 people, including 29 children, who were working as "slaves" in brick kilns, in a shocking revelation of labour practices in booming China.

"We have rescued 217 people, including 29 children, from brick kilns in Henan (province)," a police officer at the criminal investigation department of the Henan public security bureau told AFP by phone.

"During inspections of the kilns we arrested 120 criminal suspects."

The police officer refused to comment further, nor would he confirm widespread stories in the state press that human traffickers had been selling labourers to brick kilns in Henan and neighboring Shanxi province for months.

"The labourers were enticed or sent by human traffickers to the kilns, but upon arrival were beaten, starved and forced to work long hours without payment," the official Xinhua news agency said.

Press reports said that some of the children forced into slavery were as young as eight years old, while photos of those who were rescued or escaped showed groups of young children badly scarred from beatings and underfed.

Children claimed to have witnessed workers being beaten to death for refusing to work or working too slowly, the reports said.

According to the Southern Weekly, Henan police mounted an inspection campaign involving more than 35,000 police on June 9, inspecting 7,500 kilns in Henan in the ensuing three days.

The checks only came after widespread reports in the press about distraught parents trying to find their children in both Henan and Shanxi, the paper said.

"I ran to over 100 brick kilns, and every one of them were forcing children to work," the paper quoted Yang Aizhi, the mother of a 16-year old boy that had gone missing in March.

After failing to find her son, Yang returned to her home in Henan's provincial capital of Zhengzhou, where in April she soon came into contact with other families searching for missing children.

Children had disappeared at train stations, walking home from school or out shopping, sometimes they were told they could make money and were tricked into going along with kidnappers, other times they were drugged, the report said.

According to the Beijing News, a Henan journalist who travelled to brick kilns in Shanxi with the parents of missing children three times, estimated that more than 1,000 children were working there.

The report said that local police protected the kilns and only allowed the parents to take away their own children, resulting in the release of about 40 kids during the three trips.

The paper cited the rescue of one boy named Zhu, who was later taken away by a labour inspection department in Shanxi, only to be sold to another kiln, the paper said.

Police in Shanxi were not immediately available for comment.

"I was at the Zhengzhou train station in early March, when a group of traffickers drugged me and sold me into slavery," the Southern Weekly quoted 17-year old Zhang Wenlong as saying.

Zhang said he worked from five in the morning to midnight, eating only pickled vegetables and turnips three times a day and being deprived of meat for three months.

"All we could do was watch the guards enjoying dog meat and beer," the paper said cited him as saying.

"There was no way to escape, they had six dogs watching over us at night."

[szbd]

Children kidnapping in China is a serious problem. A few years ago the people's congress raised punishment for this kind of crime and the public security department put more emphasis on dealing them. The highest punishment can be death penalty and excecute just after the final sentence. This means if someone was sentenced to death, he has the right to appeal to higher court, if the final sentence is still death, he will be shot at the same day of the final sentence made.

This is a shame. I believe people are waiting to see some serious punishment on some high ranking officers.

[flyzies]

This kidnapping stuff really doesnt surprise me that much....its sad and all, and of course should never be allowed to happen...but truth is, its is happening and i think people are aware of it and either turning a blind eye or too selfish to care...

Totally agree with szbd...those kidnappers should get more serious punishments

[yehe]

Yes, Clinton kept the PRC hotline in his private quarters so if any visiting female high ranking Chinese official needed to use it, it could quickly and easily be found. :p

But I believe Bush has since moved the PRC hotline to the kitchen. :nono:

Hehehe...it's a joke guys, just a joke. :D


Meh, I liked Clinton:nana: , that guys hade some carisma and common sence unlike little Pushy, then again, like the old CIA Pushy senior better as well:coffee: