PLA Squad and Platoon

[netspider]

Hello, I want to know something about the configuration and equipments of (PLA) squad and platoon, such as how many soldiers and officials in the squad and platoon? how many rifles, LMGs, grenade launchers, motors, AT rockets/missles and portable AA missles, such things. Compare to those western armies, such as US marine troops, and russian army, which side has more firepower? Please enlighten me if you know, thank you,

[Red Guard]

somehow it's different for different scale units.
in a 12 squad. there are 1 machine gunner, with 1 loader, sometimes, 1 type 69 rocket launcher with one loader, that takes 4, and the rest are rifle men.

but it's certainly different in mech division, since a type 86 would take about 8 people and 1 squad leader also as the commander of the vehcile

very confusing.......

[netspider]

somehow it's different for different scale units.
in a 12 squad. there are 1 machine gunner, with 1 loader, sometimes, 1 type 69 rocket launcher with one loader, that takes 4, and the rest are rifle men.

but it's certainly different in mech division, since a type 86 would take about 8 people and 1 squad leader also as the commander of the vehcile

very confusing.......

By loader, I suppose you mean a man carrying bullets or rockets? Why there is a dedicated man assigned to this role? Does he carry other weapons?

[Red Guard]

ja. so far i could give you the exact old infantry, or referring as "light infantry" to canadian units. it's a 11 man squad (which is funny, i used to remember it's 12 men). which is in the 1979 viet nam war. squad leader and vice squad leader takes type 56 assault rifle for each, 1 machine gunner uses type 56 machine gun, a loader for the gunner, normally he carries extra ammo for him, i think, the gunner carries 2 ammo drum, and he carries another 2, which makes it to 4, and i think he carries submachine gun himself, or just a pistol, i am not very sure. then the rest are riflemen with type 56 semi auto rifles. after the war, everyone uses type 56 assault rifle.
here is what i have
1 sub machine gunner, 1 submachine gun, 150 rounds, 4 grenades. this means rifleman.
rifle man, this is sniper or sharpshooter, 1 snipering rifle, 100 rounds, 4 grenades.
machine gunner, 1 machine gun, 300 rounds, 2 grenades.
loader, 200 rounds, 2 grenades.
type 69 rocket launcher, 1 type 69/ 40mm rocket launcher, 2 grenades.
loader, 5 rockets, 2 grenades.

loader for machinegunner does two jobs, carry the ammo, and take the machine gun when the gunner is down.
loader for type 69 is normally just carrying the ammo.


this just came in
for a regular 9 people squad.
type 81 rilfe and type 69 rockets squad (this is the old type)
1 machine gunner with 81 squad machine gun.
1 loader for him, no weapon, carrying ammo
1 69-1 rocket launcher
1 loader for him, no weapon, carrying ammo
the rest 5 men including squad leader, 5 type 81-1 rifles

type 95 and PF98 squad
1 95 machine gunner
1 loader
1 PF98 launcher
2 loaders
4 95 riflemen.

[PiSigma]

the guy carrying ammo for rpg or machine gun usually have their own personal weapon too, it's just instead of a rifle, he might have a submachine gun that uses the same type of ammo as the rifle to reduce logistics. the reason for separate guys to carry ammo is that machine guns is based on the "spray and pray" theory meaning you just aim in the general direction and/or use as suppressive fire since no country ever use human wave attacks anymore like in ww1. that means the ammo needed is a lot and is heavy enough that it's the only thing one man can carry. same applies for rpg.

[Red Guard]

my dear engineer comrade, or since you are older than me, in japanese i should call you sempai (just reading over japanese comics recently, haha). you ever realize that the submachine gun uses pistol bullets instead of rifle bullets? type 64 submachine gun uses type 54 pistol bullets ( i could be wrong with the type), and type 56 uses 7.62 rifle bullets...........

and no, i don't really know, because i asked over my friends, and it seemed we used submachine gun in 1984, but it was never a standard weapon for a regular infantry unit. weird. i will dig some more.

[darth sidious]

my dear engineer comrade, or since you are older than me, in japanese i should call you sempai (just reading over japanese comics recently, haha). you ever realize that the submachine gun uses pistol bullets instead of rifle bullets? type 64 submachine gun uses type 54 pistol bullets ( i could be wrong with the type), and type 56 uses 7.62 rifle bullets...........
and no, i don't really know, because i asked over my friends, and it seemed we used submachine gun in 1984, but it was never a standard weapon for a regular infantry unit. weird. i will dig some more.

the "submachine gun" you are talking about is likely a 56 assualt rifle the chinese word for submachine gun more accurately translates into storm rifle

[Red Guard]

no, i never use "submachine gun" to refer to assault rifle. when i say submachine gun, it's a SMG, it is a submachine gun, type 64, type 85 submachine gun. used in 1984 battle. i have the documentary that shot right on the battlefield.
here is the correct infromation
http://www.cjdby.net/UploadFile/2006-2/200621115591663946.jpg
it says, the mech brigade infantry squad includes 10 men (within 1 vehcile)
type 81 machine gun, shooter and loader
type 69 40mm rocketlauncher, shooter and loader
driver, and vehcile weaponary shooter
the rest are 4 riflemen.
and from the screenshot, you could see it's a 63 APC. that's what i am talking about the B class infantry division to more advanced mech infantry brigade.
and theoritically, the loaders are not supposed to take any guns. but i suppose they will ask for submachine gun on the field. after all, people aren't stupid.

[netspider]

I found some information about US Army Squad, here it goes.

Each squad consists 9 men. A Squad is furthered divided to two fire teams.

The first fire team has five troops: Squad leader (Assault Rifle),
fire team leader (assualt rifle), automatic rifleman (SAW), Grenadier (assualt
rifle with grenade launcher) and rifleman (assulat rifle)

The second fire team has four troops: fire tema leader (assualt rifle),
rifleman (assult rifle), Automatic rifleman (SAW), Grenadier(Assault Rifle)

Compare to Chinese infantry unit, we have.

Chinese Squad: 10 men, 1 LMG, 1 RPG, 6 Rifles, unknown grenade launchers
--- assume two loaders do not carry other weapons.

US squad: 9 men, 2 LMG, 0 RPG, 7 Rifles, 2 grenade lanchers

Note, in US squad, there is no loader for LMG. Is this because the US soliders
are stronger to carry ammo?

[Red Guard]

no, actually, the US army thinks it's a problem now. since the SAW is too heavy to carry, not mentioning the ammo, so they are thinking to put a loader in. but after all, US army has lots of cars, they could just put the ammo on the hummer. while one of PLA's specialities is small size unit movement.

[rommel]

Well, I have to made some correction for netspider.

A typical US Army Squad's size can vary depending on type of unit:

1 fireteam of 5 men and 1 fireteam of 4 men and the Squad Leader (for light infantry).

for the mechanized infantry, it's up to 16 soldiers per squad divide in 2 team (each team is assigned to a section, the word section is use for armor/vehicule unit only, each section is 2 vehicule)


A Canadian Infantry SECTION (we called them section in Canada, not squad) is made of 8 soldiers, 2 team leader, 2 rifleman, 2 gunner and 2 grenadier

Well, there's multiple reason why there's no loader in the US Army and Canadian Army structure.

1st: Each soldiers have to carry ammo for the team's machine gun. Each soldiers have to carry a drum of 200rounds for the machine gun.

2nd: We have removed the loader or assistant gunner because it was useless, before, the assistant or the loader was helping the gunner fed the ammo belt and changing the gun's barrel when it overheated, but with the SAW, those jobs became much more easier.

3rd: The 5.56mm NATO round is also lighter than the 7.62mm, so you don't have to dedicated a soldier to carry ammo, each guy can carry some and it wouldn't affect so much, since each 200 rounds drums of 5.56mm is 3.1kg, it's still somehow heavy but it's lighter than the old 200 7.62mm belt...Those were really heavy...

4th, we don't have loader/assistant gunner for 5.56mm MG but we still have them for 7.62mm MG. The C6/M240 (Canadian and US version of the FN MAG) team usally have a assistant gunner/loader, but they have weapon (usally M16/C7A1) but their combat load is different.

[DPRKUnderground]

no, i never use "submachine gun" to refer to assault rifle. when i say submachine gun, it's a SMG, it is a submachine gun, type 64, type 85 submachine gun. used in 1984 battle. i have the documentary that shot right on the battlefield.
here is the correct infromation
http://www.cjdby.net/UploadFile/2006-2/200621115591663946.jpg
it says, the mech brigade infantry squad includes 10 men (within 1 vehcile)
type 81 machine gun, shooter and loader
type 69 40mm rocketlauncher, shooter and loader
driver, and vehcile weaponary shooter
the rest are 4 riflemen.
and from the screenshot, you could see it's a 63 APC. that's what i am talking about the B class infantry division to more advanced mech infantry brigade.
and theoritically, the loaders are not supposed to take any guns. but i suppose they will ask for submachine gun on the field. after all, people aren't stupid.

I feel bad for them. They still have to climb into the crappy Type-63. God help them! But why would they still be using the Type-69?

[Red Guard]

63 will be out in sometime. there are just a lot of 69, so....but i am sure 69 will be out soon. PF98 will be in.

[Kampfwagen]

Not to sound like a killjoy here, but does anyone think this is possibly in the wrong section?

[monitor]

submachine guner, normally equipped with silent SMG, only appers in the special force team and reconnassance units. also there are sniper, and ,as far as i know two machine gunners, each one carry one MG in these kind of team. the structure of chinese squad are changing as the replacement of weapons.

[RedMercury]

I recall reading that the squads with Type-69 RPG will have a gunner and an assistant. The ones with AGL instead will also have a gunner and an assistant. Then there's a SAW gunner and assistant, a designated marksman, and the rest are riflemen. The AGL armed squads probably have one-off RPGs like PF-89.

The reason Type-69 is still in use is that there are so much of them in various versions (including a newer one that fold in half) and so much ammo for them around (i.e. logistical inertia). In one of the articles describing PF-89, it said Type-69 RPG rounds have been upgraded with the same improved warhead. There are thermobaric rounds for the Type-69 as well. Even if Type-69 is retired from regular PLA service, it'll probably be used by reserves, PAP, and militia for many years to come.

[Aluka]

I am sort of late with this responce, but still i hope that my info will be of some value. Also i hope to revive this thread. I just did not not notice it before, though in my opinion this is one of the most interesting discussions here.

It seems nothing was said about russian army, so i'll try to fill this gap.
Russian motorised infantry platoon consists of 3 infantry squads. One squad is one vehicle. Each squad is often (not always) divided into 3 sections - first is led by "starshy strelok" (chief rifleman), and usually includes automatic support. Second section is led by sergeant and includes AT support and sniper (if there is sniper), third group is a vehicle. Sergeant is a squad leader, though he is a vehicle commander, he disembarks with the troop, and in combat operates separately from the vehicle, while the third group is led by the vehicle's gunner.

Squad structure depends on the vehicle type. There are 4 main types - BMP-1 squad, BMP-2 squad, BTR squad, and BMP-3 squad. Here is equipment structure in modern russian army:

BMP-1:
9 men including sergeant (squad leader)
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-machinegunner with RPK-74
-two riflemen, have AK-74 with GP-25
-two riflemen, have AK-74 with GP-25, carry RPG-22
-loader with AK-74
-grenade launcher, has AKSU and carries RPG-7

BMP-2:
8 men including sergeant (squad leader)
Similar to BMP-1, but one rifleman/grenade launcher is excluded, RPK is replaced with PKM, and one of the riflemen is replaced with sniper.

BTR:
9 men including sergeant (squad leader)
Similar to BMP-1, but one squad in platoon is antitank squad:
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-two riflemen
-three RPK-74 machinegunners,
-loader with AK-74
-ATGM "Metis" operator,

BMP-3:
8 men including sergeant (squad leader)
-sergeant and chief rifleman have AK-74 with GP-25,
-rifleman, has AK-74 with GP-25, carries RPG-22,
-ATGM "Fagot" operator,
-two PKM operators
-loader with AK-74
-grenade launcher, has AKSU, and may carry RPG-7, or AGS-17, or "Shmel" flamethrower.

These structures though may still vary. Also there is a difference from chinese squad - loader is linked to grenade launcher, not MG.

Aditionally each batallion has artillery company (actually it is called batareya, approximately 70 men with mortars, mortar type may vary, depending on operation, lesser caliber in urban combat), or 2 artillery platoons, and may have specific grenade (AGS-17), or antitank (not in BTR) platoon.

Finally if you know something that wasn't mentioned above, or have new info, please post it, for some reasons i am very interested in more info on the subject. Specifically i am interested in sniper roles in chinese and US army, and what units have ATGMs.

[chakos]

Here in Australia i have noticed that the Army (as well as the US Army) spend massive amounts of money on general light infantry. The usual rifleman usually has a grenade launcher attachment and/or a pistol on most operations and also the squad machine gun is issued a lot more heavily, serving a role of almost a heavy assault rifle. As well as this, even light infantry soldiers are almost all invariably equipped with night vision goggles, individual weapon sights, infa red sights and rifle mounted torches, as well as personal communications. Is it much the same in China when on actual operations or is the Chinese military still more into the masses of light infantry that is only rudmentarily equipped backed up by the special forces that are equipped like standard western special forces/infantry. I ask this because i have noticed in the western world that it seems the distinction between special forces and regular infantry has blurred in regards to the above mentioned equipment and it makes me wonder if it is even worthwile putting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment on a basic infantry soldier.

any views?

[Gollevainen]

In my (artilerists) obinion it's pointless. It's too expensive to equipt all infatry with fancy toys and exspecially in chinese case the quantity is just so big that it's almoust in possiple.

Technology is a good thing and gives you great possibilities, but it can easily enslave you. It often makes you rely it too much and when it brokes down (it always will) you are left naked in the woods...

Night googles are a good example, the basic use restricst your natural nightvision considerably and constantly relying on electronical devices will weaken your eyesight. So when the batteryes run out in the heat of the battle, you're a blind.

[Nethappy]

In the Aussie Army they do have some pretty nice toys. Nevertheless the majority of the force still relied on alot of own fashion technique and limited technology.

[chakos]

Are you talking about the aussie army or the chinese army.

As for the aussie army, its at such a high level that pretty much our entire infantry force is considered a commando force by united states standards, wich is exactly how they utilize us on operations. Technologically Australian troops on operations would have to be one of the most advanced in the world and the reason for that is not just the training and the equipment issued. In Australia the military is paid quite well, and as such the troopers like nothing else but to spend their money on quite expensive aftermarket equipment. When you see aussie soldiers on ops you need to realise that a good part of the cool stuff they wear is not standard issue, but they buy it anyway in order to add to their effectiveness (and to look cool of course) :coffee:

[Player 0]

Are you talking about the aussie army or the chinese army.

As for the aussie army, its at such a high level that pretty much our entire infantry force is considered a commando force by united states standards, wich is exactly how they utilize us on operations. Technologically Australian troops on operations would have to be one of the most advanced in the world and the reason for that is not just the training and the equipment issued. In Australia the military is paid quite well, and as such the troopers like nothing else but to spend their money on quite expensive aftermarket equipment. When you see aussie soldiers on ops you need to realise that a good part of the cool stuff they wear is not standard issue, but they buy it anyway in order to add to their effectiveness (and to look cool of course) :coffee:

The Australian is that advanced because it's a very small and highly professionalized force, it can afford the best training and best equipment.

Unlike China however Australia's military force is still very puny, and unless supported by a larger force like the US army its doubtful it would be able to function effectively in a war with a much larger nation with a bigger army, this is a fact that has been proven many times before in numerous conflicts, e.g. Nazi Germany vs the USSR.

China however maintains a very large force because unlike Australia it doesn't have the benefit of being allied to a major power like Britain or America, China is also on a continent and is bordered by many potential enemies, as opposed to Australia that is a small island with no land borders to other hostile nations.

[Nethappy]

Chakos, i can see what you mean. But you gotta put into consideration that the majority of major oversea deployment are under taken by the Aussie are carry out Army 3 RAR, SAS, Navy -CDT, Airforce- ADF which are all classify as SF by the Aussie army.

But I gotta agree with you that the Aussie have some of the best training in the world and some of the more important unit has the best of the best equipment aswell.

[Roger604]

China however maintains a very large force because unlike Australia it doesn't have the benefit of being allied to a major power like Britain or America, China is also on a continent and is bordered by many potential enemies, as opposed to Australia that is a small island with no land borders to other hostile nations.

You're making good point until the very end. Australia is no "small island"!

:) ;)

[Nethappy]

Hmm Australia is the biggest island in the world. Therefore the Over the Hozien radar, really help protect the country.

[Player 0]

My mistake then, but my point still stands that Australia is an island with no real threatening powers close to them, except for Indonesia but it's doubtful Indonesia could ever really threaten Australia with an invasion, unlike how the USSR threatened China in the cold war.

[chakos]

The Australian defence force is suprisingly well equipped for fighting off a larger nation. Both main combat aircraft as well as the maritime patrol aircraft are equipped for launching the Harpoon anti shipping missile and as such would present a huge problem for any invasion force. 71 F/A-18's with 2 AShM's apeice, 24 F111's with 4 AShM's apiece and 20 AP-3C's with up to 8 (usually 4) AShM's apeice would create havoc for any fleet. Add to that four advanced Oliver Hazard Perry frigates with SM2 and Harpoon capability, 8 ANZAC frigates with Harpoon and ESSM capability and soon 3 of the new Arleigh Bourke based Air Warfare Destroyers with SM3 capabilities as well as Harpoon capability would destroy any fleet short of a United States multi carrier battle group in no time. Also, theres 6 Collins class submarines also with harpoon capability. Australia is also one of the lead customers for the Block 2 Hapoons and the AGM-142 Popeye and JDAM guided weapons, also the JASSM will probably be in service in a couple of years.

Our Army is our only weak point in fighting a major war although the plan is to stop the landing before it actually takes place.

[Nethappy]

Our Army is our only weak point in fighting a major war although the plan is to stop the landing before it actually takes place.

Yes that very true, but that the army is not as bad as it seem. The Aussie army has a very few core unit nevertheless they do have some surprisingly well trained reserve force to call on too; own fashion technique infanty training, small team technique and trained to use Hi-tech warfare when avaible make some powerful soilder.

IMO the Aussie Army may not have a big force to show to the world during oversea opertation. Nevetheless the have more then an adequate to hold back an or slow down an landing for the Bristish or United States to come and help.

[Yaka]

I feel bad for them. They still have to climb into the crappy Type-63. God help them! But why would they still be using the Type-69?

Hi, Im new to the forum.

Is the Type 79 SMG exported? I saw what looked like a Suppresed Type79 with a red dot site, recovered in Sri Lanka, it was used to kill the Foreign Minister, last year.

[sumdud]

Welcome to the forum, Yaka.
As a common practice, new members introduce themselves in the introduction thread at the top of the member's Club Room.
-------------------
Huh? How will type 79 SMG get in here? The Type 79 is more common in PAP than PLA in China. Exported? Most likely.
I feel bad for them. They still have to climb into the crappy Type-63. God help them! But why would they still be using the Type-69?
Dude, this picture, as told by its quality, is probably really old, early 90s.
And the Type 69 is nothing bad, you do realise the RPG-7 and it are still the most verstaile RPG there is right?

But has the 10 men squad been changed? The new type 89 APCs could fit 13 troops............though the WZ-551 holds 9....

[Yaka]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I am a student, from Sri Lanka. I hope i can contribute well to this forum.

The Sri Lankan military gets most of it's small arms and eqipment from the PRC.
Unfortunatly the Terrorist seem to get plenty of chinese arms as well! Mainly the T-56 rifle, RPD (T-56) LMG, Type 54 12.7mm gun and a whole lot more.

I would like to know about the NORINCO copy of the M-16, i belive it's called the CQ-15??

[gizhou]

The standard PLA squad using MICVs is now nine and contains two four man fire etams similar to Red Army in the 1930s. Each fire team has one underbarrel grenade launcher, one squad automatiuc weapon and two assault rifles. One Type 69 can replace a SAW or rifleman. The units using the wheeled vehicles are similar as at best they can carry nine soldiers. On extended ops the figure is likely to be less so the crew has space to fight and live in the vehicle - aroung 7 soldiers - two 3 man fire teams.

Light infantry and air mobile forces would have nine man squads but Type 69s as they are still a bloody good fire support weapon.

[Dutch Infantry]

We have no normal Infantry we have:
Airmanovre,PAINF(mech-armourd),and the Marines and of corse some units of our special forces KCT.
30yeurs ago was the end of are normal INF ist to old and not capeble.

the structure of a Dutch Inf platoon:
All Infantrymen have Scops(scops cost 2000dolar) en HV nightvision in there weapons(HV costs 8000dolar) Very nice stuf we can operate efectively at night.Reason we have lost just 2 in Irak and 0 in Afganistan.
The have the newest OPS vests LION googles (lion costs 33.000 dolar)
Cevlar helmets,Bulletproofvests.
Its elite and i think that you can compare in whit special forces of a lot of countrys.

Group 1 (Alfa group)

1.CV90/35 IFV/APC
crew: 2 gunner and driver whit Dimacos
Infantry:
2xDimaco whit a 40m granade launcher.
2xMinimi LMG gunners.
1xSargeant (groupleader) whit Dimaco.
1xdimaco whit Panzerfoust 3 (shortrange-antitank)
1xDimaco whit 40mm granade launcher (secondleader)

Group 2 (Romeo group)

1.CV90/35 IFV/APC
crew: 2 gunner and driver whit Dimacos
Infantry:
2xDimaco whit a 40m granade launcher. 1 gunner is also a spotter.
2xMinimi LMG gunners. 1 gunner is also a sniper.
1xSargeant 1(groupleader) whit Dimaco. ^sniperteam
1xdimaco whit Panzerfoust 3 (shortrange-antitank)
1xDimaco whit 40mm granade launcher (secondleader)

Group 3 (Ecko group)

1.CV90/35 IFV/APC
crew: 2 gunner and driver whit Dimacos
Infantry:
2xDimaco whit a 40m granade launcher. 1 gunner is also a spotter.
2xMinimi LMG gunners. 1 gunner is also a sniper.
1xLeutenant(platoonleader) whit Dimaco. ^sniperteam
1xdimaco whit Panzerfoust 3 (shortrange-antitank)
1xDimaco whit 40mm granade launcher (secondleader)

Group 4 (BRAVO group)

1.CV90/35 IFV/APC
crew: 2 gunner and driver whit Dimacos
Infantry:
2xDimaco whit a 40m granade launcher.
2xMinimi LMG gunners.
1xSargeant (groupleader) whit Dimaco.
1xdimaco whit Panzerfoust 3 (shortrange-antitank)
1xDimaco whit 40mm granade launcher (secondleader)

Demian.:rofl:

[warman]

Actual modern PLA squad 3 3-man cells, each cell 1lmg, 1 RPG, 1 AK
+ Squad leader.

The Chinese squad is NOT organized like the US rifle squad.

Moderators edit: Lets use proper names and words for various nationalities.
Gollevainen
Supermod

[gizhou]

What's your reference please?