China and Slava class cruiser

[PLABUDDY]

Hi guys..anyone know anything about China acquiring Slava-class cruisers? If you do, i would be happy to know, thanks. :)

[IDonT]

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1740&catid=268&video=true

http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1740&catid=268

[Totoro]

Never heard/read anything serious about such a purchase. Russians would probably ask for way too much money compared to what such vessels can offer PLAN anyway. I say stick to submarines, frigates and destroyers for now, increase the capacity of amphibious assault ships. Leave cruisers and carriers for a time in the future when such a force wouldn't be a liability in a potential engagment of USN. On the other hand, if china has absolutely no intention of invading taiwan in next 15-20 years, thus potentinally triggering a war with the US, then by all means, now is as good as time as any to start building a true blue water navy. That is all under assumption US is seen by china as second main military adversary, after taiwan.

[MIGleader]

buy it. i heard the ukrainians are the ones that own one and may sell it. china should definitly buy two of the ships to create an exellent cruser force. they shouldn't be too expensive. once you recieve them, put some more radar and sensors bought from the russinas on it. what a powerful weapon. that video was the firt time i got to see some russian weapons operate. is it an add?

[supertran]

Yeah i heard rumors of PLAN buying Udaloy III? (source is from another forum guy at abovetopsecret so I dont know if his words are true or garbage), but these pictures are really cool


*By the way, I'm new to the forums* :cool:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/Number1azn365/3_95965.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/Number1azn365/3_95964.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/Number1azn365/3_95963.jpg

[MIGleader]

what is that? a future plan crusier? it has a suprisingly small amount of weapons for it's size.

[Totoro]

It is a model of a proposed further evolution of the udaloy series of russian destroyers. Udaloy II serves with the russian navy but this would be newly built for whoever orders the ship(s).

Udaloys are of some 160 m in length and some 6500 tons displacement so i don't think it has too little armament. From the model it looks like it retained a good deal of the characteristcs of udaloy II. I see 8x8 vls sam launchers, i see 16 vls antiship containers. Something that looks like RAM style ciws, two of them, plus a more classical gun ciws at the back. torpedoes and main gun, that's about enough armament for such a ship. A bit too heavy on the antiship missiles perhaps, at the expense of too few sam defences for a today's modern destroyer.

[MIGleader]

i only see 8 anti ship missles. are they vertical launced?
that is one sweet lookng turret though.

[Totoro]

The turret is pretty big, yeah. i guess 130mm. And the antiship VLS is just behind the turret. two double rows, each with 4 containers. It looks like having a hangar for two choppers, pretty good, some stealth hull characterstics... main problem i see if the sa-n-9 is retained as in udaloy II, and the launchers are exactly the same, then that's not capable enough, not enough range. i cant see sa-n-11 system though, that udaloy II has, but even that has too short of a range.

[MIGleader]

if someone orderd udaloy, would the ship be modified to this or would it be built from scratch?

[vincelee]

lightly armed? That's because the Udaloy was an ASW destroyer. And putting 50 AShMs onto a single hull is just plane childish.

[MIGleader]

i dont see 50 anti ship missles on the model.

[vincelee]

well, some people here sure would like to do that.

[sino52C]

looks pretty stealthy too

[Su-27 Pilot]

I have must ask the following:
Will the presence of missile cruisers help the PLA's invasion of taiwan or those missile destroyers are enough for the invasion ??

[MIGleader]

missle cruiser=scare taiwan
the ship will probably be deployed in combo with sovs, facs, subs, and other special aegis killers to attack the us cvbg.

stealth...thats something new for the russians.

[Su-27 Pilot]

So will missile cruisers a huge threat to the US CVBG ??

[BrotherofSnake]

Subs are more of a threat.

[MIGleader]

missle cruisers can carry large amounts of fast, hard to shoot down missles. not all will make it, but a small # will. they will also help the plan project power and can attack ground targets.

[MIGleader]

how much will such a warship sell for? 750mio would be a reasonable price based on the sov prices, but if the russians want any customers, they will need to lower the cost.

[Su-27 Pilot]

missle cruisers can carry large amounts of fast, hard to shoot down missles. not all will make it, but a small # will. they will also help the plan project power and can attack ground targets.

So missile cruisers and destroyers are a deadly naval force when combined with naval air force ??

[BrotherofSnake]

So missile cruisers and destroyers are a deadly naval force when combined with naval air force ??

Yes they are.

[Chairman Hu]

Awww....

I use to think of the combo was Aircraft Carrier with naval airforce + Submarine + Missile Crusier

[Gollevainen]

If china is to aquire project 1164 class RKRs or something similar, it should be first noted the purpose of these kinds of ships

About the Slava class history. (I posted this one also for china-defense.com forum) The desing dates back to the 60s, when soviets where developing new RKRs (missile cruisers). The Project 934 wich eventually became the 1134 (kresta) class called for heavy and light brigades of new cruisers which where to be armed whit the P-500 Bazalt (SS-N-12) for the heavy cruiser and the P-120 Malakhit (SS-N-9) for the ligh cruisers. When the ASW became the high priority, the project 934 died and only the light cruiser version survied as project 1134/B BPKs, large ASW ships.
The RKRs where not entirely buried, and in the late 60s and early 70s, the anti-surface warfare was given a new change. The light and heavy brigades where studied again and the light role was given to the project 956 (sovremennyy), and the heavy role was to be divided between the Norhtern and Pacific fleet so that the new project 1144 (Kirov) was first intended to the Pacific and the resuerected 934 as in the form of project 1164 (slava) to the Norhtern fleet. The 1164 desing incomprated the orginal SSM armament but new SAM system (Rif instead the old Sthorm) was fitted. As it is evident, the Slava class resambles the older 1134B (Kara) class and it's due that the Slava was actually its predecessor.

In soviet tactics The RKRs were called to form a seven ship brigades to battle against US carriers and corresponding task groups and convoys. Although the soviet naval oder-of-battle called for divisions consisting two ligth and one heavy brigade of single purpose warships and submarines, this was rarely achieved and usually these big cruisers were used as flagships for smaller destroyers and cruisers. Now to my understandin, china hasent got these kind of 'stiff' strategies, at least not any longer so there is not big need for having dedicated flag ship of different orgins than the ships it leads, whitout commonability of datalinks and battlefield control systems as well as main weaponary and firecontrol systems. And all awailable Slava's are at least as bad shape as the varyag and needs to be towed from the old world to china...

[IDonT]

Slava was intended to be the low cost - supplement to the Kirov class.

[t_co]

Why don't the Chinese just offer to by a defunct Kirov class battlecruiser? Apologies if I'm being a noob, but I hear those things displace 25000 tons and are comparable to most USN cruisers...

[IDonT]

Why don't the Chinese just offer to by a defunct Kirov class battlecruiser? Apologies if I'm being a noob, but I hear those things displace 25000 tons and are comparable to most USN cruisers...


Those things are a waste of resources. For the cost of building and manning a Kirov, you can build many more surface combatants that have a combined firepower greater than the Kirov.

The USN had plans for a Strike Cruiser in the early 1970's with similar displacement as the Kirov. It was drop because it was not cost effective.

[MIGleader]

those things are going to be the next battle ship. russia wouldn't sell a kirov for any less than 1.5 billion.

[sumdud]

I doubt China is going to get the Slava. It's not like China can't build something comparable. The systems aren't compatable, the reactor sucks. It's old. There's practically no point of getting one. Yes, crusiers are great, but China should and can build one on their own.

As for the Udaloy design, that's a destroyer! But then, it can be extended and enhanced......... The ASM launchers (whatever those are before the aft VLS, in tubes, NOT at an angle.) are weird. And I can't really see any ASW weapons....

[swimmerXC]

do you really want to spend 1.5 billion dollars on a pieace of rust??
when you can go buy better and more stuff with that 1.5 like FACs, J-10, JH-7A, MMK3?, 52C, 51C, ICBM, you can even buy a mafia gang and get them to steal that for you

[MIGleader]

since when did i say buy a kirov? its a huge waste of money. maybe china should buy one from russia as a part of a much bigger arms deal, but alone...

[Neko]

China is not making good use of its own resources when she gets lazy and purchases outdated weapons from Russia. If anything, they ought just hire a bunch of Russian scientists with experience in the field to help them to research their own designs.

[IDonT]

I doubt China is going to get the Slava. It's not like China can't build something comparable. The systems aren't compatable, the reactor sucks. It's old. There's practically no point of getting one. Yes, crusiers are great, but China should and can build one on their own.

As for the Udaloy design, that's a destroyer! But then, it can be extended and enhanced......... The ASM launchers (whatever those are before the aft VLS, in tubes, NOT at an angle.) are weird. And I can't really see any ASW weapons....

The Udaloy and the Sovremmeny were designed at the same time. They were intended to be escorts for the Soviet Union's high value units (carriers, large cruisers). Sovremmeny is tasked for ASuW while the Udaloy is for ASW.

After the coldwar, the Russians commissioned an improved Udaloy that is armed with the SUnburn missile instead of the SS-N-14 Silex.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/1155_1.htm

[MIGleader]

china should get the new udaloy as part of a bigger arms deal to reduce cost, and use its tech to build an indigedous cruser

[tphuang]

http://military.china.com/zh_cn/critical3/27/20050910/12645079.html

on a possible cruiser purchase.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Can someone like translate that for me!?!?!?!

[tphuang]

it's about a cruiser with the name "Ukraine" that is under the ownership of the Ukrainian government? It says it's the 4th ship in the type 1164 "glory" cruiser. Whatever that means.

Apparently the Ukrainian government is putting it up on sale and China is interested in it. The asking price is probably around 600 million dollars.

[Gollevainen]

It says it's the 4th ship in the type 1164 "glory" cruiser. Whatever that means.

brief lesson in Russian language, Slava= Glory
:D :D

[MIGleader]

bump the price down to 500 mil and through in a few missles and engines for varyag and the chinese would buy it.

that site has awsome pics. now i know where they come from.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

bump the price down to 500 mil and through in a few missles and engines for varyag and the chinese would buy it.

Sovernemy cost $1.4 billion for two, right?

[MIGleader]

correct. but that was 956em, with yakonts, kashtan, and a helicopter.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

correct. but that was 956em, with yakonts, kashtan, and a helicopter.

So how much does the 956Es cost then?

[Su-27 Pilot]

Can someone like translate that for me!?!?!?!

I though you can read Chinese ?

[MIGleader]

i think china bout the two 956es for around 1 billion.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

I though you can read Chinese ?

I can speak it! Wo shi zhong guo ren!

[tphuang]

A similar article in English

RIA Novosti
September 07, 2005

Ukraine intends to sell new missile cruiser

KIEV, September 7 (RIA Novosti) - The Ukrainian government has ordered Ukrspetsexport, the state-owned arms trader, to look for potential buyers for a missile cruiser that is currently being built.

A government order signed on September 5 said the ministries for foreign affairs and industry would assist Ukrspetsexport in the deal.

The defense ministry was instructed to take the Ukraina (the Ukraine), which is a 95% complete but is not equipped with military hardware, and pay for its maintenance.

In June 2002 a former Ukrainian prime minister, Anatoly Kinakh, and Russia's ambassador to Ukraine, Viktor Chernomyrdin, discussed an acceptable agreement on the missile cruiser, as a Russian-Ukrainian agreement of 1993 stipulated that both parties should make joint decisions on military facilities and equipment that had not been completed in the Soviet era. The cruiser falls under the agreement, as work on it began in 1983.

[BrotherofSnake]

Wo shi zhong guo ren!

I can speak mandarin too!!!!

Ni hao ma?

Wo shi mei guo ren.

Mei guo shi hun hao.

[MIGleader]

bush shi yi ge da huai dan.

ta dui mei guo he shi jie zhou huai shi.

mei guo ren hai ke yi.

[swimmerXC]

I can speak mandarin too!!!!

Ni hao ma?

Wo shi mei guo ren.

Mei guo shi hun hao.

come one guys back to topic... we can pratice our pingying else where... i always thought that snakes was a american... but apperentaly he has chinese parents?

bush shi yi ge da huai dan.

well said my friend :D
althought i would like to add, i think hes' a zhu tou, yang gui zi, gou shi, SHEN JING BING, and who can't forget TONG XING LIAN! :cool:

[PLABUDDY]

come one guys back to topic... we can pratice our pingying else where... i always thought that snakes was a american... but apperentaly he has chinese parents?



well said my friend :D
althought i would like to add, i think hes' a zhu tou, yang gui zi, gou shi, SHEN JING BING, and who can't forget TONG XING LIAN! :cool:

大哥，你说得太棒了！！！ 打倒美国帝国主义！！ 中华民族万岁！！！！ :)

[FriedRiceNSpice]

大哥，你说得太棒了！！！ 打倒美国帝国主义！！ 中华民族万岁！！！！ :)

What do does squares mean?

[PLABUDDY]

What do does squares mean?

um..it's in chinese :)

[FriedRiceNSpice]

um..it's in chinese :)

Ohhhhhhhhhh. :o The computer I am currently using does not support Chinese. :(

[PLABUDDY]

大哥，你说得太棒了！！！ 打倒美国帝国主义！！ 中华民族万岁！！！！ :)


translation:
Well said big bro. Down with america and bush. Be proud of the Chinese. :)

[MIGleader]

this is drifting. but i guess no one can find any more info on slava, so we post this crap.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

this is drifting. but i guess no one can find any more info on slava, so we post this crap.

As we discuss a topic, sometimes as we exhuast one topic, we move on to discuss another topic, that is in one way or another related to the first topic.

[Su-27 Pilot]

translation:
Well said big bro. Down with america and bush. Be proud of the Chinese. :)

He didnt included Bush. Down with American imperialistsis the right translation . Dont add anything more than that. Also Big Brother instead of just bro.

[Su-27 Pilot]

How come Fried Rice got banned what happened ?? I missed that part.