what do you want to know about PRC?

[silverpike]

it is weird for me that this forum seems have few people who actually from PRC. i am not so sure since some posters seem to have great knowledge about the maindland. so i just want to ask, am i the only person form the mainland here? :confused:
anyway, back to the title, i have notice that some members are curious about the mainland, regard its society , politic, and economy issues. and to be honest, as a ordinary chinese and a student in the west,i do not think western media's portrait of PRC is really 100% neutral and just. therefore as a chinese who grew up in PRC, i am more than happy to answer any question about PRC according to my own experience.
but before you ask, i have to tell you guys that i am not a professional in social study, maybe i will post your question on chinese forum and try to find a better answer, is it alright with you guys?:D

besides, i really want to have a nice friendly discussion with other members, so if you want to start some sort of country bashing, please! do not do it here! :off i am no nationalist or 'angry youth' , but i still do love my country, so a discussion is welcome, vituperation is not.

and if there is any member who is also from the mainland, please help me out here! you have a responsibility to tell truth about your country!:china:

[SampanViking]

Hello again Silverpike

As an older person, I am very interested in the effects and experience of living through a period of rapid change and development. I would be interested in reading from you a little bit a personal bio (your general age group and where you live) plus a personal perspective of living in a rapidly changing society and how your perceptions vary from those of your older family members. Is it disorientating to see areas you have known all your life, changed beyond recognition? do you see the future as optimistic and exciting, or do you find it just a little bit scary? you know that kind of thing.

No need to rush - take a few weeks if necessary. Who knows, I might be able to find a home for a really good work, beyond this forum;)

[Aerodriver]

China is a great country, i live here out of choice not because i was born here. There are many things i love about China, but there are also many things that I hate. I have found that alot of western media reports, appart from FOX news and other right wing news corps are acurate. I am very disapointed that the BBC news web page is not available in China, I certainly would not class the BBC as anti-chinese.

[SampanViking]

Hi Aerodriver

same offer open to you if you are interested.

[lookandsay]

我来自中国，我是今天上午通过搜索引擎发现的。我是想来学英语的，同时又对军事比较感兴趣，希望能达到两得 的目的。不知道汉字能发过去吗？

[petty officer1]

Learn english, good! (I will try to use simple word you can understand)

Go check those word on your English-Chinese dictionary.

Military Tank Jet Army Navy Air force Ship Missle Submarine

(Mod please don't delet this thread I know it is :off )

[Ender Wiggin]

I have several questions: I consider myself an "apologist" or thats what other people call me anyways ;)

Whenever the topic of China comes up I will generally defend the PRC whenever I see that the discussion is either A) Biased or B) is under a misconception so I strive to correct some.

But i have been asked certain question that while pouring through your constitution haven't been able to answer.

What are the Mobility Rights within the People's Republic? Do all Chinese citizens have the right to live and work in any province and also the right to move to any other province or leave (emmigrate from) the People's Republic? Do they also have the right to be protected from unlawful deportations? And the right to be compensated should they be forced to move from their homes?

[PiSigma]

answer to ender, remember the hundreds of millions of migrant workers???

people are allowed to work in other cities and provinces, especially if their home province is poor and can't support them. but the problem is that their ID still identify them as from that province, and different rules apply to people from different area. for example the national university exam. if you are from my province of jiangsu, the marks needed are extremly high, but if you are from shanghai, which is just across the river, you can be an idiot and get in good universities like beijing and tsinghua.

immigration to other countries is a different story. some groups are not allowed to emmigrate such as military officers, some scientists, but generally emmigrating to other countries is a lot more relaxed now than before, but is still harder than say Canada.

btw, i was born in the PRC, but i spend most of my life in Canada.

[FuManChu]

I have found that alot of western media reports, appart from FOX news and other right wing news corps are acurate.

I know that China has its problems, but do Fox really get it right? Or is it just that they sometimes get it right and exaggerate the rest of the time?

I am very disapointed that the BBC news web page is not available in China, I certainly would not class the BBC as anti-chinese.

Yes, I certainly think that the BBC reporting is hardly anti-Chinese. But then again they have criticism of the Party on there, so it's obviously a big no-no! :(

[bd popeye]

I have some questions...As most of you know I'm not Chinese..

1. Can any citizen of the PRC establish a church of his own choice reguardless of religion?

2. Can any citizen of the PRC buy a home?

3. Can any citizen buy a car?

4. Is the internet as "free" (open) as it is in the USA or does the PRC government censor some sites?

5. Can any citizen of the PRC stand on any "street corner" and and say anti-government sayings ina non threating manner?

[silverpike]

I have some questions...As most of you know I'm not Chinese..

1. Can any citizen of the PRC establish a church of his own choice reguardless of religion?

well, i do not think you can just establish a church of your own in china, unless you got a ok form the government. but you can easily estabalished a 'underground' reglion, and the CCP doesn't really care as long as you don't try to spread anti-government idea. that's how FaLunGong group expanded before the government announce them as a cult.
the things may change a little after FLG riot. govenment defintely will be more strict on reglious matter now i think.

2. Can any citizen of the PRC buy a home?

of course we can, otherwise where we could live? on street?:D actually, you can buy as many home as you like as long as you have the money. nowadays, more chinese choose to get a installment plan since the house/apartment price is ridiculous high!:mad:
PS. in 2006, the chinese government forbid all the estate agent to build villas, since they consume more land.

3. Can any citizen buy a car?

of course we can, chinese automoblie production has just became the second-largest in the world one month ago. my family currently own two cars, my father drive a toyota,and my mother drive a mazada, although i strongly support the idea of boycott japanese product,they do not listen to me:mad:


4. Is the internet as "free" (open) as it is in the USA or does the PRC government censor some sites?

no chinese internet is not as 'free' as America's, censorship is strict those days!(actually one of my friend's adult webpage has just been blockade yesterday! ) anti-chinese government webpage and pornographic webpage are blockade for chinese users. but there are some softwares that could crack CCP's 'fire wall'.
chinese internet user is currently the second largest in number.over 100 milion chinese people using internet everyday, internet is international, that's something the CCP could not possibiliy gain fully control, the idea of chinese people being 'brainwash' by 'western propaganda' really scare them.
but if you ever visit china,just try talk to the ordinary people, you will find out that this censorship is acutally quite useless, their information accessibility is no less than rest of the world.

5. Can any citizen of the PRC stand on any "street corner" and and say anti-government sayings ina non threating manner?
why? it a pretty senseless and a stupid thing to do. the economy is booming, many people are getting rich. no one will trade them all just because the USA tell them the CCP is evil!;) china needs to be industrialized, the people need to earn more money, as long as CCP is still doing the right job, why do we want a revolution?
ok, back to your question,if you saying anti-govenment saying on the street, i don't know, you might end up getting some attentions and then policeman might come and ask you to stop. they are not going to arrest you unless you doing something 'too much'.
i am not defending CCP's reputation here, and i am not denying china is still lack of freedom, all i am saying here is,the people's everyday life in china is no different from people who live in UK or US(i don't see people say anti-govenment saying on the street in UK everyday,why chinese should do that?:confused: ),we are not bunch of slaves that driven by the government like some western media's horrific describation!

[bd popeye]

Thank you for your answers. I'm just have long been intrested in what's going on in the PRC.

I do really think there are more internet users in the PRC than anywhere eles. I'm sure I read that somewhere. I can understand the PRC government cracking down on porn..porn is sick!!!. Whatever else they do ..well it's their country they can run it as they see fit.

You cleared some stuff up for me reguarding the purcahse of homes and auto's .I thought only certain citizens could purchase these items. I was wrong about that.

Thanks again!

[Gollevainen]

well as i someone already managed to awnser the poppys questions i undeleted them. I tought that they might hold bit too much tension in them but it seems that we are just fine....

anyway a good topic in general:china:

[T-U-P]

Go check those word on your English-Chinese dictionary.

Military Tank Jet Army Navy Air force Ship Missle Submarine


lol, just because he wants to learn english doesn't mean his english is this bad...


but you can easily estabalished a 'underground' reglion, and the CCP doesn't really care as long as you don't try to spread anti-government idea.
i wouldn't call them underground, they're just unofficial. and you're right, pro-government religions are always welcome. as for the buying house part, i've heard (haven't experienced it myself) that you only own the land that your house is on for a certain number of years (99 i think), then the land goes back to the government, not your offsprings. at least that's what i heard, but since im not 99 years old yet, i don't know if it's true or not.

[silverpike]

Hello again Silverpike

As an older person, I am very interested in the effects and experience of living through a period of rapid change and development. I would be interested in reading from you a little bit a personal bio (your general age group and where you live) plus a personal perspective of living in a rapidly changing society and how your perceptions vary from those of your older family members. Is it disorientating to see areas you have known all your life, changed beyond recognition? do you see the future as optimistic and exciting, or do you find it just a little bit scary? you know that kind of thing.

No need to rush - take a few weeks if necessary. Who knows, I might be able to find a home for a really good work, beyond this forum;)

well , it really might take few weeks, the country's change that i have witness is already enormous! and i was just bron in 80's, my father wintness everything that china has gone throught from cultural revolution untill now, he would cry if you ask him about his feeling of this era;)

well, my hometwon is a northern coastal city called Qingdao, in Shandong province, it's certainly more traditional compare to cities like shanghai and beijing.

when i was in primary school, that's was earily 90s, i remeber the city was so different. there are barely any nice buildings, the best part of the city is the remain german villas by the seaside from the colonial time. cars are rare, and i have no idea what's a motorway is.;) bicycle is the main transportation, and there are buses. wagons are common, in the summer, the farmer will drive the wagon to the city sell watermelons. i was always excited to see the horses, but bad thing about it, is the horse wil leave lots of poos on the road,

my father earn 250 yuan per month although he is the manager of a state-own factory. that's about 30-40 USD,but things are cheap! a lollipop is only 5 cents:D my familiy live in a department with two bedrooms, which is also state property,
but around that time, the economy reformation and open policy is already starting to change people's life, i got my frist computer around in 92 or 93? and some businessmen start to using cell-phone, duirng eariler 90s, chinese film association would import ten hollywood films everyyear, and everytime they import those movies, there would be a huge crowd at the cinema.

frist time i heard about micheal jackson was in the middle school, many of my classmates are fans, also, teenagers start to like football, for the frist time in chinese television history, italian world cup was live broadcast...

by the time i grew up, the constuction sites are everywhere in the city, for few years, people went crazy about stock market,although they barely know anything about it.

around that time, for kids, a can of coke is really a treat! it's qutie expensive autcally , 2.5 yuan, i still remember,then i heard something called Mcdonalds and burgers that time, to have a junk food meal is a pretty cool thing for kids to show off.:D

then it came cars, because my father runs a factory, so he have his own bussiness car(well, at same time, a familiy car).
volkswengen,Audi, Toyota are the main car models on the road, you barely saw other brands!

well, i guess that was the time china start to westernlize,

ok, to be continues

I have several questions: I consider myself an "apologist" or thats what other people call me anyways ;)

Whenever the topic of China comes up I will generally defend the PRC whenever I see that the discussion is either A) Biased or B) is under a misconception so I strive to correct some.

But i have been asked certain question that while pouring through your constitution haven't been able to answer.

What are the Mobility Rights within the People's Republic? Do all Chinese citizens have the right to live and work in any province and also the right to move to any other province or leave (emmigrate from) the People's Republic? Do they also have the right to be protected from unlawful deportations? And the right to be compensated should they be forced to move from their homes?

well, of course,you can live and work in another city and province, actually most of the works in shanghai and beijing nowadays are from other provinces

this new year, chines transportation had to move 1.7 billion passages(how do you call it 'person time') going or leaving home.

我来自中国，我是今天上午通过搜索引擎发现的。我是想来学英语的，同时又对军事比较感兴趣，希望能达到两得 的目的。不知道汉字能发过去吗？

当然可以，你要是学英文就别用中文了:D

Thank you for your answers. I'm just have long been intrested in what's going on in the PRC.

I do really think there are more internet users in the PRC than anywhere eles. I'm sure I read that somewhere. I can understand the PRC government cracking down on porn..porn is sick!!!. Whatever else they do ..well it's their country they can run it as they see fit.

You cleared some stuff up for me reguarding the purcahse of homes and auto's .I thought only certain citizens could purchase these items. I was wrong about that.

Thanks again!

well, you're welcome, :D but you know what, for chinese kid, perhaps small amount of regular porn will do them some good! because of the china's conservative tradition, chinese parents would never talk to their children about sex, and the schools don't have this kind of education as well! the porn is actually is only 'information' or 'education' they could possibly get!

well, i do sick of chinese censorship, everytime i went back, i can't access some of my favourite websites.

about phurcasing cars and house, well, you don't have to be speical in order to buy them, but if you are just a ordinary worker in beijing or shanghai, there is a good chance that you may never be able to afford a apartment in life time!

and ordinary workers earn about 24,000 yuan per year, but a 100 square meter --apartment in shanghai now cost about 1 million yuan !
so ,yes, only certainly citizens could buy a house, rich citizens!;)


i wouldn't call them underground, they're just unofficial. and you're right, pro-government religions are always welcome. as for the buying house part, i've heard (haven't experienced it myself) that you only own the land that your house is on for a certain number of years (99 i think), then the land goes back to the government, not your offsprings. at least that's what i heard, but since im not 99 years old yet, i don't know if it's true or not.

yea, in china, you just buy the house, not the land, the government have the right to take the land back 99 yrs later.but i am not so bothered by this policy, nowaday ,according to chinese city's rebuild speed, no building is going to survive for another century anyway!

[netspider]

I have some questions...As most of you know I'm not Chinese..

I am a Chinese. I was born in China and raised to age 22. I came to US at 2001 and my last visit to China was at 2003.

1. Can any citizen of the PRC establish a church of his own choice reguardless of religion?

Depends on the religion, things could vary between easy and very complicated or impossible. For buddhism, it should be relatively easier to do such a thing. In fact, I remembered there was a time one of our local temples was burned down due to an accident. Some monks came to my house looking for donations to rebuild the temple. My father donated 500 RMB. Later, the temple was rebuilt and we found my father's name was carved on a stone as a generous donator. I have not met anyone believing in other religions in China, but I can say it should be definitely IMPOSSIBLE for FLGers to set up their church (Actually, FLGer do not have church) and complicated for Christians or Muslim to do the similar thing.

2. Can any citizen of the PRC buy a home?

Yes, any citizen of PRC can buy a home. Actually, we can buy as many homes as we want. My father-in-law has two houses.

3. Can any citizen buy a car?

Yes, any citizen can buy a car. My brother has one motocycle and one pickup.

4. Is the internet as "free" (open) as it is in the USA or does the PRC government censor some sites?

Internet is not as open as in USA. In fact, the censorship on Internet is very strict these days. I think many major Chinese news sites and forums are monitored 24 hours a day buy some agents. I used to work at a research institute and we have a bulletin board system over there. The guy sit next to me was the administrator of that BBS. He got calls or emails from some officials asking him to shutdown the site sometimes or delete some posts pretty often. Some sites are blocked also, mostly are political and pornographic sites.

5. Can any citizen of the PRC stand on any "street corner" and and say anti-government sayings ina non threating manner?

The answer to this question is "yes". :) Anyone can do this kind of thing, but you may get yourself a trouble depends on your luck. In a heavily guarded place such as Tiananmen Square, I guess you could get youself pinned down by a police undercover in less than one minute if you do this. However, in the city which I came from, I once saw a middle age person holding a big board at the city government for over a month. I did not know what was really on the board though.

[T-U-P]

to silverpike:
dude, do you have to make 5 posts in a role? especially your last few were pretty short. take this as an unofficial warning, next time use "EDIT" if you want to add something.

[silverpike]

The answer to this question is "yes". :) Anyone can do this kind of thing, but you may get yourself a trouble depends on your luck. In a heavily guarded place such as Tiananmen Square, I guess you could get youself pinned down by a police undercover in less than one minute if you do this. However, in the city which I came from, I once saw a middle age person holding a big board at the city government for over a month. I did not know what was really on the board though.

yea, that's ture, in my city, a bunch of farmers protest at the city hall for whole month! they even block the traffic, i heard it was about the government take their land to build factories.

to silverpike:
dude, do you have to make 5 posts in a role? especially your last few were pretty short. take this as an unofficial warning, next time use "EDIT" if you want to add something.

sorry, did know that, won't happen again

[Azn boi]

Hi I am wondering if you drink any water from any city does it cause diareea?Also I'm wondering like that the gov't have new laws for coal factories to have new rules to reduce the pollution. Does the coal companies obey the laws if they don't does the gov't does anything to make them do it.

[bd popeye]

Hey silverpike . Dude you are all right to answer those questions. I have been to Hong Kong 3 times while I was with the USN. I know Hong Kong does not count. My son has actually been to mainland China. In 2002. He was on the USS Paul F Foster DD-964 they went to Qingdao. And he and some of his shipmates took a tour of Beijing. He said it was the best cities he has ever been to...

[Aerodriver]

I saw a short protest, about 3 months ago, at Tiananmen Square by a lone middle age man. It lasted about 30 seconds, he opened a banner, I did not have time to read it, and the police in uniform moved him on. There was a large crowd and the man struggled, a little, and said to the police are you not going to hit me, the police officer just smiled and said why would I do that. I was pleasantly suprised by the way they dealt with him, although if someone wants to protest about something there should be an area where he is allowed but I don't think the CCP will allow that any time soon. Anyway the police were very good in public view, not sure what happened out of view though.
In relation to the house buying, the house is always your property, but after a certain amount of time and it varies, the government gets the land back. Yes it’s a strange situation. Not sure what will happen in the future if the government tries to take the land back though.
The government does provide houses for people to buy if their income is under 60,000 rmb per year- lots of completion for these houses though.
Religion. as long the CCP says it is okay, its okay -it can change its mind. For example -Catholics, the head of the church is not the pope, it is the CCP. If your Catholic and have the pope as the head of the church you an underground religion. They are getting more strict on underground religions now.

To the member called FuManCh- I sited Fox as an example of a news service that does not get it right regarding China.

Also I was not born in China,I'm from europe. I just live here.

[Azn boi]

I saw a short protest, about 3 months ago, at Tiananmen Square by a lone middle age man. It lasted about 30 seconds, he opened a banner, I did not have time to read it, and the police in uniform moved him on. There was a large crowd and the man struggled, a little, and said to the police are you not going to hit me, the police officer just smiled and said why would I do that. I was pleasantly suprised by the way they dealt with him, although if someone wants to protest about something there should be an area where he is allowed but I don't think the CCP will allow that any time soon. Anyway the police were very good in public view, not sure what happened out of view though.
In relation to the house buying, the house is always your property, but after a certain amount of time and it varies, the government gets the land back. Yes it’s a strange situation. Not sure what will happen in the future if the government tries to take the land back though.
The government does provide houses for people to buy if their income is under 60,000 rmb per year- lots of completion for these houses though.
Religion. as long the CCP says it is okay, its okay -it can change its mind. For example -Catholics, the head of the church is not the pope, it is the CCP. If your Catholic and have the pope as the head of the church you an underground religion. They are getting more strict on underground religions now.

To the member called FuManCh- I sited Fox as an example of a news service that does not get it right regarding China.

Also I was not born in China,I'm from europe. I just live here.

Well I can answer your question about what happens out of view. If they were taken to prison they would be torture/beat up etc by the cops. My uncle was a civil engineer that lives in china he was a wealthy man but a guy told the cops that he own him money but he never gave him any money. So my uncle is in prison for 11 years the cops says if he confess that he did it they will cut the sentence in half but he said he didn't do it because he is a very honest man.

[Roger604]

The one thing that really irks me about China is the squat-toilets. I've been to some nice places in ML China, but as soon as I visit the washroom, I'm frustrated. Sure it's clean, but it's a squat-toilet. I just can't deal with those things. It hurts my knees and I can't balance. I know people in ML China are more used to the squat and often prefer it. But I think this custom has to change. Eventually China has to make a massive shift from squats to sit down toilets.

[Aerodriver]

Roger604... I hear you and 100% agree, squat toilet are a complete pain in the ass.......actually a pain in the calf muscle, and knee area. I won't even start to talk about the smell in public toilets!!! I don't know how many times have i gone to McDonnalds just to use the toilet. Now squat toilets are something worth protesting about even in the Heavenly Gate Square!!!
P.S.Have you tried using a squat on the train(???) and the bar they provide you to hold on is always wet, which always makes me think it has piss on it!!

[curse]

I'm a highschool student in the US, lots of questions. I hear alot of people talk trash about China in school alot, I tend to defend it and Communism everytime just because noone else is.

One thing they say is "The Government kills babies" and crap, now I know the population is high and all, but I doubt this is true. I know you all heard this one time or another. So what does the government actually do about population control and family planning?

And how is life in communist China in general? Have you lived in any other countries to compare it to, particulary capitalist ran countries?

[T-U-P]

Hi I am wondering if you drink any water from any city does it cause diareea?Also I'm wondering like that the gov't have new laws for coal factories to have new rules to reduce the pollution. Does the coal companies obey the laws if they don't does the gov't does anything to make them do it.
diarrhea? of course not, the water is not that dirty, especially after you boiled it. although i would not recommand drinking straight from the tab. just think, how would a city function if everyone's having diarrhea? (of course if someone's charging for washroom service then he's gonna make a lot of money)
as for coal companies, i doubt the CCP can do much about it, there're just too many little private unregistered ones. it's nearly impossible to get them all.

as for the toilets, i agree, those squat ones are bad. i had to warn one of my friends before he travelled to china.

[PiSigma]

answer to curse:

china is only communist in name, everything else is pretty much capatalist. so the western education system where china is labelled communist is very false. most people here actually live in USA/Canada/Europe/Australia, so ya, we do have a good comparison between the west and china.

there are forced abortions in china if caught in the early stages, or if the parents decide to have the second child, then just face some big fines. but there are a lot of loopholes in the system. like rural families can have two kids if first is female, and if urban and both parents are only childs, they can have two kids. minorities can have more than one child.

[Aerodriver]

Babies.
If you want a second baby you can pay a fine, if you know the right person, (like a judge), and get a "birth permission" you then need to pay money each month until the child is 18. (not everyone even if they can afford it can get this permission) Sometimes again if you are the right person or know the right person you can move to an area the government is encouraging people to settle and then the money per month is cancelled.
As PiSigma said, if your from an ethnic minority or some places in the country you can have two babies, especially if the first is a girl- also i heared if you parents are both single parents you can have two children or some strange rule. If they want to get round the family planning laws it they can marry a non-chinese national.
If you can not get birth permission the government will "persuade" you to visit the hospital for a termination, people do not generally refuse this "persuasion". I do not want to write anti government things so make your own conclusions about persuading people.
Water
DO NOT DRINK unless boiled. I can not remember the exact figure but its quite high (like 70%) of water is below international health (world health organisation) standards, hence why you boil it.

[netspider]

I'm a highschool student in the US, lots of questions. I hear alot of people talk trash about China in school alot, I tend to defend it and Communism everytime just because noone else is.

One thing they say is "The Government kills babies" and crap, now I know the population is high and all, but I doubt this is true. I know you all heard this one time or another. So what does the government actually do about population control and family planning?

And how is life in communist China in general? Have you lived in any other countries to compare it to, particulary capitalist ran countries?

The "One baby per family" policy is strictly enforced in China. Couples are allowed to have one child only. If they have more, they will be fined. If they work for CCP or government in general, their positions will be revoked.

In cities, when a couple get married and want to have baby, they will have to go to some offices to get a kind of "licence" or "registration card". Through this way, how many children a couple already have can be tracked. If somehow the couple decide to have another child, some officials may come to their home to pursuade them to give it up.

These days, it is become quite difficult to enforce this policy, especially in rural area. One reason is because the massive flow of population. Many farmers leave their home to work in cities and they keep moving around, which makes it challenging for local officials to track.

[curse]

does the prc plan on fixing the treatment of the water?

[vincelee]

treatment of water is fine. It was at the drinking level in 96, at least in Shanghai, where I lived. However, it's common practice to boil water to kill microbes.

[Aerodriver]

Extracts from a paper From Enviromental Health Perspectives.
Anyone REALLY interested in reading the full report can find it at
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/1999/107p251-256wu/wu-full.html

China's extraordinary economic growth, industrialization, and urbanization, coupled with inadequate investment in basic water supply and treatment infrastructure, have resulted in widespread water pollution. In China today approximately 700 million people--over half the population--consume drinking water contaminated with levels of animal and human excreta that exceed maximum permissible levels by as much as 86% in rural areas and 28% in urban areas.

As of 1996, only 5% of municipal wastewater and 17% of industrial discharge received any treatment before being discharged into lakes, rivers, irrigation ditches, or the coastal waters

10 major polluting sectors of Chinese TVIEs in Beijing, Liaoning, Jiangsu, Shandong, Guizhou, Guangdong, and Hubei. Organic matter, acids, alkalis, nitrogen, phosphate, phenols, cyanide, lead, cadmium, mercury, and bichromate were among the major water pollutants found in the bodies of water near rural residential areas and their drinking water systems. Monitoring results showed that all the major pollutants analyzed exceeded national standards for drinking water quality. Mercury concentrations were 45-700% in excess of the standard, whereas concentrations of lead were 3,600-5,216% greater than the standard.

In a number of studies, pollutants released by TVIEs have been linked to adverse health effects. In China overall, liver and stomach cancer deaths have doubled since the 1970s, and are now the leading causes of cancer mortality in rural China (9). China now has the highest liver cancer death rate in the world

END of extracts

Offical gouvement figures from the Conference on Water Quality and Arsenic Mitigation organized in Taiyuan, China, November 23-26 2004

(c) Observing that in the countries where arsenic in groundwater has been
demonstrated at least 50 million people are exposed to arsenic levels in water
exceeding 50 ug/L, and that the population exposed to arsenic concentrations
exceeding the WHO recommended guideline value for arsenic in drinking water of
10 ug/L is many times that;

(d) Adding furthermore that 200 million people are exposed to fluoride in
their drinking water in excess of recommended concentrations, while 790
million people rely on microbiologically unsafe drinking water sources;

(e) Understanding that in China and other parts of the region the unique
situation exists of exposure to arsenic through the burning of arseniferous
coal, in addition to the exposure through drinking water, and that through
this route at least a further 100,000 people are exposed;

(f) Concerned that the combined environmental exposure to date has led to
at least 200,000 people developing arsenicosis, a disease for which no cure
exists and which results in progressive loss of productivity through
disablement and finally death if exposure to arsenic through all pathways is
not mitigated;

Another article on water from 2005.
http://www.scidev.net/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=readnews&itemid=2070&language=1

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe I will drink more bottled water now…but seriously in the big cities the water is safe as long as its boiled. You need to boil it to kill the microbes that western water companies kill in the water process, so from that point alone the water is not as clean as in most of Europe or America.

[MIGleader]

Chinese water is not fine. In the fuacet water of my grandparents apartment, the water had soem kind of visible powder in it...thats why i drank only bottled water.

[darth sidious]

[QUOTE=Aerodriver]Extracts from a paper From Enviromental Health Perspectives.
Anyone REALLY interested in reading the full report can find it at
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/1999/107p251-256wu/wu-full.html

China's extraordinary economic growth, industrialization, and urbanization, coupled with inadequate investment in basic water supply and treatment infrastructure, have resulted in widespread water pollution. In China today approximately 700 million people--over half the population--consume drinking water contaminated with levels of animal and human excreta that exceed maximum permissible levels by as much as 86% in rural areas and 28% in urban areas.

As of 1996, only 5% of municipal wastewater and 17% of industrial discharge received any treatment before being discharged into lakes, rivers, irrigation ditches, or the coastal waters

10 major polluting sectors of Chinese TVIEs in Beijing, Liaoning, Jiangsu, Shandong, Guizhou, Guangdong, and Hubei. Organic matter, acids, alkalis, nitrogen, phosphate, phenols, cyanide, lead, cadmium, mercury, and bichromate were among the major water pollutants found in the bodies of water near rural residential areas and their drinking water systems. Monitoring results showed that all the major pollutants analyzed exceeded national standards for drinking water quality. Mercury concentrations were 45-700% in excess of the standard, whereas concentrations of lead were 3,600-5,216% greater than the standard.

In a number of studies, pollutants released by TVIEs have been linked to adverse health effects. In China overall, liver and stomach cancer deaths have doubled since the 1970s, and are now the leading causes of cancer mortality in rural China (9). China now has the highest liver cancer death rate in the world

END of extracts

Offical gouvement figures from the Conference on Water Quality and Arsenic Mitigation organized in Taiyuan, China, November 23-26 2004

(c) Observing that in the countries where arsenic in groundwater has been
demonstrated at least 50 million people are exposed to arsenic levels in water
exceeding 50 ug/L, and that the population exposed to arsenic concentrations
exceeding the WHO recommended guideline value for arsenic in drinking water of
10 ug/L is many times that;

(d) Adding furthermore that 200 million people are exposed to fluoride in
their drinking water in excess of recommended concentrations, while 790
million people rely on microbiologically unsafe drinking water sources;

(e) Understanding that in China and other parts of the region the unique
situation exists of exposure to arsenic through the burning of arseniferous
coal, in addition to the exposure through drinking water, and that through
this route at least a further 100,000 people are exposed;

(f) Concerned that the combined environmental exposure to date has led to
at least 200,000 people developing arsenicosis, a disease for which no cure
exists and which results in progressive loss of productivity through
disablement and finally death if exposure to arsenic through all pathways is
not mitigated;

Another article on water from 2005.
http://www.scidev.net/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=readnews&itemid=2070&language=1

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe I will drink more bottled water now

[SampanViking]

Thank you Silverpike

I enjoyed your commentory and look forward to the next installment. You have hit the nail squarly on the head, with the kind of thing I am interested to hearing about. Please do not be shy at sharing your personal feelings about these changes and whether these are similar or different from your friends and contemporaries.

[FuManChu]

Well that is such a complex issue to bring up, and really I don't have the time to talk about it now. Perhaps I'll come up with something later.

Though I should point out that (obviously) I'm not from the PRC.

[silverpike]

Hi I am wondering if you drink any water from any city does it cause diareea?Also I'm wondering like that the gov't have new laws for coal factories to have new rules to reduce the pollution. Does the coal companies obey the laws if they don't does the gov't does anything to make them do it.

in china, the water form the tap is not 100% drinkable, well personally, i do not drink it, most of people might boil it frist,(to drink hot water is also chinese people's habit) or order the water form the water company(comes in big pleastic can, and put the can on water machine, never find it overseas)
but there are people who doesn't care, they will simply drink form tap, they seem alright.
water certainly doesn't cause diarrhea in china! how can people survive with 'diarrhea' water? our water supply is no different from other countries,it's just they put some sort of chemical stuff(purificant maybe) in it, make it taste bad and weird.

about the coal industry pollution, the government still doesn't have a effective method to handle the problem. china is crazy for resources, the coal producer will just ignore any rules and keep digging. the price of coal keep rising for yrs!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++


Hey silverpike . Dude you are all right to answer those questions. I have been to Hong Kong 3 times while I was with the USN. I know Hong Kong does not count. My son has actually been to mainland China. In 2002. He was on the USS Paul F Foster DD-964 they went to Qingdao. And he and some of his shipmates took a tour of Beijing. He said it was the best cities he has ever been to...

haha,:D personally i perfer Qingdao than Beijing, Qingdao is a small size coastal city, with nice landscape and nice beach. chinese cities are sure different form the west.
it is pity that i wasn't in the city when US ships visit. well, there will be similiar event in furture, since Qingdao has always been the HQ of the northern navy.
HongKong is just so different form the mainland, you should visit mainland sometime in the furture, HongKong is not as 'chinese' as us.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +

I saw a short protest, about 3 months ago, at Tiananmen Square by a lone middle age man. It lasted about 30 seconds, he opened a banner, I did not have time to read it, and the police in uniform moved him on. There was a large crowd and the man struggled, a little, and said to the police are you not going to hit me, the police officer just smiled and said why would I do that. I was pleasantly suprised by the way they dealt with him, although if someone wants to protest about something there should be an area where he is allowed but I don't think the CCP will allow that any time soon. Anyway the police were very good in public view, not sure what happened out of view though.

yea, the chinese police is more civilized than they use to be ,especially in the big cities.


In relation to the house buying, the house is always your property, but after a certain amount of time and it varies, the government gets the land back. Yes it’s a strange situation. Not sure what will happen in the future if the government tries to take the land back though.

yea, it is tricky situation, but we are not going face this problem for at least another 50-60 yrs, if your apartment still exists around that time,(all the building since 50s-70s in my city have been torn down in past 10 yrs), my grandchild will have to deal with it?:D


The government does provide houses for people to buy if their income is under 60,000 rmb per year- lots of completion for these houses though.

oh, yea, we call it 'economy apply apartment'(something like that,) you have to be a low-incoming person to apply those kind of cheap apartment. it's a national welfare policy.



Religion. as long the CCP says it is okay, its okay -it can change its mind. For example -Catholics, the head of the church is not the pope, it is the CCP. If your Catholic and have the pope as the head of the church you an underground religion. They are getting more strict on underground religions now.

To the member called FuManCh- I sited Fox as an example of a news service that does not get it right regarding China.

Also I was not born in China,I'm from europe. I just live here.

well, chinese church's head is still god. but it has to be administrate by the CCP government, well i guess you could put it that way.

well, since you are not chinese, i just wondering how do you feel about 'to live in china' ? do you feel the china's difference from west in everyday life? i mean, do you feel political tensions, or feel your freedom has been taking away? what's good things about PRC(i hope there are some;) ) , and what's bad about it?

[bd popeye]

There is much to comment on in this thread but I will decline to post about anything that may be political. I just want to thank silverpike for his very honest answers.

He made an eariler comment about porn and mentioned that Chinese parents generally do not discuss sex with their kids. In my opinion this would be a bad thing. Silverpike is there "Sex Education" in school in China?..Is this problem about teaching kids about sex a cultural thing? I know there are many parents worldwide(US also) that let the schools teach the kids about S-E-X....simply because they do not want to discuss it. Afterall somebody in China must know something about sex there are 1,300,000,000 Chinese! They all did not get there by magic!

[Gollevainen]

He made an eariler comment about porn and mentioned that Chinese parents generally do not discuss sex with their kids. In my opinion this would be a bad thing. Silverpike is there "Sex Education" in school in China?..Is this problem about teaching kids about sex a cultural thing? I know there are many parents worldwide(US also) that let the schools teach the kids about S-E-X....simply because they do not want to discuss it. Afterall somebody in China must know something about sex there are 1,300,000,000 Chinese! They all did not get there by magic!

Well may i ask you Popeye, did your parents tell you about sex?
I think the sex issue is mostly down the quite conservative general athmosphere in china (or at least i assume so) The free discussion about sex is more of western liberal ways adopted only few decades ago. Back in the beginning of 20th century and earlyer, sex was propaply as big tabu as it is nowdays still in china....but magicaly we are here so i'm guessing that nature finds it's ways;)

[Baibar of Jalat]

Originally Posted by Azn boi
Hi I am wondering if you drink any water from any city does it cause diareea?Also I'm wondering like that the gov't have new laws for coal factories to have new rules to reduce the pollution. Does the coal companies obey the laws if they don't does the gov't does anything to make them do it.

I simply think undrinkable water is not unique to China. In Britain during industrial revolution up until after ww2 (i think)

Edit. Poor innercity People used to drink more beer then water due to beer was safer and cheaper to drink. Britain still is a nation of drunks, highest alcohol death rate in the EU.:D Just an interesting facts.

[silverpike]

Well I can answer your question about what happens out of view. If they were taken to prison they would be torture/beat up etc by the cops. My uncle was a civil engineer that lives in china he was a wealthy man but a guy told the cops that he own him money but he never gave him any money. So my uncle is in prison for 11 years the cops says if he confess that he did it they will cut the sentence in half but he said he didn't do it because he is a very honest man.

well, it is a horrible thing that your uncle been throught!:( i am sorry to hear that.
i think your nucle's enemy probably bribed the cops, but one thing i am confused is,11 yrs imprisonment for own money, how is it possible??
i mean, yes, lots of CCP officals are corrupted, it is possible that they send your uncle to prison although he is clearly innocent.
but what i do not understand is: even maximal penalty that the judge could possibily issue for that kind of offense is far from 11 yrs imprisonment by the law! it is the law, and even cops or judge(doesn't matter who they bribe)could deny it in public! (i think, at least they have play by the rule in court?! right? the judge has to tell the public which law the criminal break and what's kind of penalty they get, according to the law.),
so i just wonder, how is possible? did you nuclear ever been trialed? or was it happen sometime around culturial revolution?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The one thing that really irks me about China is the squat-toilets. I've been to some nice places in ML China, but as soon as I visit the washroom, I'm frustrated. Sure it's clean, but it's a squat-toilet. I just can't deal with those things. It hurts my knees and I can't balance. I know people in ML China are more used to the squat and often prefer it. But I think this custom has to change. Eventually China has to make a massive shift from squats to sit down toilets.

well, it's just different culture really, you see the reason we are using squat-toilet in the public is simply because the idea of siting on some strangers's ass-print freak people out! and some people believe that this could cause cross infection of some kind of diseases, something like VD i guess.well, i don't know if this theory really has scientific evidence.but they do think so.
i think you would be surprised,if you find out that actually no one is using squat-toilet back home. in ML, 'family only bathroom' is always sit-down model:D .


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Roger604... I hear you and 100% agree, squat toilet are a complete pain in the ass.......actually a pain in the calf muscle, and knee area. I won't even start to talk about the smell in public toilets!!! I don't know how many times have i gone to McDonnalds just to use the toilet. Now squat toilets are something worth protesting about even in the Heavenly Gate Square!!!
P.S.Have you tried using a squat on the train(???) and the bar they provide you to hold on is always wet, which always makes me think it has piss on it!!

y know what, it probably does have piss on it! always, always! keep a pack of tissues in your bag, and wipe everything you could possibiliy touch in a public bathroom!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++


I'm a highschool student in the US, lots of questions. I hear alot of people talk trash about China in school alot, I tend to defend it and Communism everytime just because noone else is.

One thing they say is "The Government kills babies" and crap, now I know the population is high and all, but I doubt this is true. I know you all heard this one time or another. So what does the government actually do about population control and family planning?

chinese government is filled with bastards! but come on, they are still human! why a country's offical government want kill its own citizen's baby? what will the people do if the government kill their babies? i think it's just a pathetic rumor. but there maybe a reason:
one-child policy has been imposed for more than 20 yrs, in the begining,well even now, it's very hard for people to accept the idea(especially chinese farmers who still believe they must have a boy to pass on the family line),
so, around that time, it was probably ture that there had been some events of forced-abortion by the local government in some remote regions, and ends up, some officals who conduct such awful crime, were murdered by the people they hurt.
anyway, that was something happen in 80s. nowadays, one-child policy is much more 'loose' than it use to, certainly groups could legally have two children(if a couple are both only-child.or some ethnic minorities, etc...) and if you break the policy, you punishment will be no more than a fine, so the rich people are no longer care about this policy anymore, besides, chinese big-city girls, they don't want to have baby at all!:mad:



And how is life in communist China in general? Have you lived in any other countries to compare it to, particulary capitalist ran countries?


communism ideal, is just the biggest joke in 20th century china. nowadays, china is no different form the west on ideology, its economy is pure capitalism. and its politic is kinda of a combination of limited democracy and partly dictatorship. we even barely hear the word 'communism' in china anymore. instead , china was westernlized a lot in the past two decades, apart form different culture and custom, chinese city now, is no different form the western city.
just look at somes numbers,
by last years, there are 296 Mcdonalds in beijing's city area alone!
wal-mart has opened its 50th stores in the country, wal-mart's chinese branch currently hired over 25,000 staffs.
well, you got my point.
the life in communism china is simply those days, ---- it is all about money! my friend.:china:

Aerodriver is from Europe and live in china, you can ask him about how things are different in communism china form a western point of view.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Babies.
If you want a second baby you can pay a fine, if you know the right person, (like a judge), and get a "birth permission" you then need to pay money each month until the child is 18. (not everyone even if they can afford it can get this permission) Sometimes again if you are the right person or know the right person you can move to an area the government is encouraging people to settle and then the money per month is cancelled.
As PiSigma said, if your from an ethnic minority or some places in the country you can have two babies, especially if the first is a girl- also i heared if you parents are both single parents you can have two children or some strange rule. If they want to get round the family planning laws it they can marry a non-chinese national.
If you can not get birth permission the government will "persuade" you to visit the hospital for a termination, people do not generally refuse this "persuasion". I do not want to write anti government things so make your own conclusions about persuading people.
Water
DO NOT DRINK unless boiled. I can not remember the exact figure but its quite high (like 70%) of water is below international health (world health organisation) standards, hence why you boil it.

most of the part is right, but you sure make government 'persuade' sounds terrified. my mother was a staff in a state-run university, and she works in the labour union, in charge of the 'one-child policy' and female staff's affair. as you said, if you got the money you will pay the fine(which is not really alot those days, 10,000-20,000 rmb i think), and those who don't have the money, they will just run. have the baby in another city, after few monthes, they come back with a 'extra' baby, :D and that's over, no one will mention their 'crime' ever again. for 10 yrs my mom works in the labour union, not a single case of 'breaking the policy'.
the idea of only have one-child is more a concept than a rule in today's china. well, of course, in the rural area , it might be quite different, but one thing i can say is, there is no forced abortion anymore, not since late-80s when people could live anywhere they like in the country.

[vincelee]

I smell a corruption scandal.

[FuManChu]

I smell a corruption scandal.

To be brutally honest, there's always a corruption scandal of some sort going on in the PRC. As a fellow airplane traveller (PRC) once said to me, "that's China". The somewhat demoralising thing was that she seemed to accept it without giving the impression she thought it was bad/could ever be improved.

[silverpike]

Chinese water is not fine. In the fuacet water of my grandparents apartment, the water had soem kind of visible powder in it...thats why i drank only bottled water.

yea, if you are outside, just drink bottled water, if you live in china, get one of those water machine deal, and buying mineral water form the water company, that's what most chinese people do those days.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

does the prc plan on fixing the treatment of the water?

not really, it's basically becasue of the industrialization, this going to carry on for qutie a while, i think,



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you Silverpike

I enjoyed your commentory and look forward to the next installment. You have hit the nail squarly on the head, with the kind of thing I am interested to hearing about. Please do not be shy at sharing your personal feelings about these changes and whether these are similar or different from your friends and contemporaries.

well, thanks, i will always follow this thread, and i am trying my best.

now where are we, westernlization and 90s...

in the middle 90s, the corruption is getting worse, it was already an issue in tiananmen square event, but it was around 94-96s, corruption became something common and people seems to be callous, what i see is, people start to spend tons of money (taxpayer's money) on food, liquor or else... there is no way to do business without bribe the government or your client-company's manager. of course, my father has to do that to get the factory runing as well.
hundreds of resturant suddenly appeared in the city, and all filled with crowd, all things are decide on dinner table while everyone are drank. you see CCP officals, business man going in and out all the time, there was once my father has to attend 5 dinner party in one night, ends up got so drank and throw up till the morning. that was crazy time, i think it is still the same now.

at that time, although all the factories is still state-own, but the government is no longer their baby-sitter, they stop investing the money and stop paying the worker, all companies have to earn its own living. it was just matter of time for the government to give the state-own business up.

also, around that time, more forgien investments cames, and they merge with local companies, suddenly, nothing is 'chinese product' anymore.

i start to care about politic and military in the middle school, so are my classmates, i remeber, we got really excited when we heard that PLAAF is going to phurcase SU-27 form Russia for the frist time. and we repeatly ask a same question- 'can su-27 beat f-16' because we all use to think taiwan's f-16 is unbeatable!:D

in 1995 or 1996 i think, china start its 'housing ownship reformation' , bascially means, people can by their apartment from the government at very cheap price, and for the frist time, have their own private property. my family bought the apartment we were living in, it was quite small, but i do miss the place, i spent my entire childhood there.


the city start to change as well, more tall and good looking buiding appear in the city, road was expanded, since there were more and more cars everyday, around 96, Qingdao city government has done some 'heroic' in the country! they sell Qingdao's city hall to a Japanese firm. and because the city-hall was in the central area of the city, so they made tons of money, and they build a new one in remote part of the city,where still more like a viliage,then very soon,around the new city-hall a whole modern district was developed in about 5-7 yrs! the Qingdao government's success was made a model for the whole county, suddenly all the cities were trying to sell their city-hall:D

money was never an important thing in china during mao's time, but by the time i grew up,the whole country is in a 'money grabing fever',

.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++


There is much to comment on in this thread but I will decline to post about anything that may be political. I just want to thank silverpike for his very honest answers.

He made an eariler comment about porn and mentioned that Chinese parents generally do not discuss sex with their kids. In my opinion this would be a bad thing. Silverpike is there "Sex Education" in school in China?..Is this problem about teaching kids about sex a cultural thing? I know there are many parents worldwide(US also) that let the schools teach the kids about S-E-X....simply because they do not want to discuss it. Afterall somebody in China must know something about sex there are 1,300,000,000 Chinese! They all did not get there by magic!

no, i don't think we have sex education in chinese school, and we certainly do not have the school for sex education, one of my friend got his girlfriend pregnant becasue he does know how to use a condom right.
and yes, it is a cultural and traditional thing that sex is not open for discussion for any instance, it is consider a embarrass matter, especially in the family.
well, now there are educational websites(not pron) and hot-line they could call, but, only few people are actually using them.
well, yea, they all get there at the end maybe, but like my friend's case, people do make mistakes before they get there. so i think they do need such education.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++


Well may i ask you Popeye, did your parents tell you about sex?
I think the sex issue is mostly down the quite conservative general athmosphere in china (or at least i assume so) The free discussion about sex is more of western liberal ways adopted only few decades ago. Back in the beginning of 20th century and earlyer, sex was propaply as big tabu as it is nowdays still in china....but magicaly we are here so i'm guessing that nature finds it's ways;)


it is defintely getting better in the china, nowadays, people could have easy-access to many valueable stuff. but in the chinese villiage, it is a whole different story.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++

I simply think undrinkable water is not unique to China. In Britain during industrial revolution up until after ww2 (i think)

People used to drink more beer then water due to beer was safer and cheaper to drink. Britain still is a nation of drunks, highest alcohol death rate in the EU.:D Just an interesting facts.

exactly, i guess pollution is something every country have to deal with in industrial revolution.

[adeptitus]

A few quick notes:

1) On religion and Church:
The right to worship by yourself in your own home is almost never violated. However if you want to organize a Church, then that falls under government regulation. The PRC does have restrictive rules on Church registration and activity. To make a simple comparison, in the US, Jehova's Witness or Mormons can come knock on your doors like door-to-door salesperson. In China that is not allowed:
http://www.us.omf.org/content.asp?id=9319

2) One child per family policy:
The rules and regulations to the One Child Per Family Policy varies from location to location. In some places parents are allowed to have 2 children. In other places you're allowed to have 2nd child after 3-4 years. Having additional children may result in fines ("fees"). Non-Han minorities (i.e. Koreans) are usually allowed to have 2 children without penalty, while Tibetans can have 3.

3) Beer:
It wasn't until the 20th century that drinking water was made "safe" in most places. Prior to then even state-run orphanages were allocated funds to buy beer for children, because it was safer to drink beer than the water.

In some parts of the world, beer & ale was considered "food" rather than "alcoholic drink".

[curse]

no sex ed... huge population... wonder if there is a connection?

[Baibar of Jalat]

Hi Silverpike

What is China's national ideology? To be more percise U said it is not Communism/ Maoism anymore and i know Mao severly curtailed Cafuciasm ideology.

In ur opinion what is the real ideology that is followed or recognised as important by the masses of China inc young and old.

[jwangyue]

Hi Silverpike

What is China's national ideology? To be more percise U said it is not Communism/ Maoism anymore and i know Mao severly curtailed Cafuciasm ideology.

In ur opinion what is the real ideology that is followed or recognised as important by the masses of China inc young and old.

I think I can answer this. Apart from a few of the very old people who lived through the revolution times, most people's ideology today is Money or Capitalism. People are judged by their earnings and poessions rather than their revolutionary ideals. I think that is a pretty good indication. :china:

[bd popeye]

Gollevainen, wanted to know if my parents told me about sex. Well yes they did. My dad talked to me and gave me a book and answered my questions.

[Baibar of Jalat]

Origionally posted by jwangyue
Capitalism. People are judged by their earnings and poessions

Hi

But it that the same with every community, similiar to the pakistan community in britain. However for us their are other cultural influences like religion and language etc.

Sorry i know the question is a bit vague and i respect ur response.

for example can u and others explain traditions such as the chinese new year, why and how it is celebrated? from a chinese propective rather then a western one.

[Gollevainen]

Gollevainen, wanted to know if my parents told me about sex. Well yes they did. My dad talked to me and gave me a book and answered my questions.

Wow...my folks are about same age as you and imagining them to have same open relation with their parents in these kind of things...:confused: ...but i'm quessing each case is different and we cannot make generalizations like i did before...

[bd popeye]

Wow...my folks are about same age as you and imagining them to have same open relation with their parents in these kind of things...:confused: ...but i'm quessing each case is different and we cannot make generalizations like i did before...

I have 4 "kids" All adults now....In California where I lived they have a sex/human/race eduction class in the 6th grade. I told them if they did not undertsand anything about the class I would answer them...My ex-wife talked to my daughter about sex. I talked to my sons as need be...Ain't easy but I did it....

You are right ..everyone is different!..

[jwangyue]

Hi

But it that the same with every community, similiar to the pakistan community in britain. However for us their are other cultural influences like religion and language etc.

Sorry i know the question is a bit vague and i respect ur response.

for example can u and others explain traditions such as the chinese new year, why and how it is celebrated? from a chinese propective rather then a western one.

Religious influence is not big on Chinese community. I guess this can be attributed to CPP's Atheism teaching. Family value is still pretty good, thing such as respect for the elders, loyal to your country, be kind to others, and stick up for your friends are still there. In respect to communism, collective farms and government owned enterprises are almost all but disapperaed. Private enterprises composed of majority of the commerce. Property ownership, which is a big distinguishing factor between communism and capitalism, is all private now!

National Day, Labour Day, Chinese New years are treated as nothing but Big vacations times (They get 10 days off for each occation, so I've heard, not like the puny two days off for Christmas, and two days off for New Years you are getting in Canada) How it is celebrated can also show the change, before Chiese New Year used to be a time you spent with your family and you make a bigger dinner yourselves. But now, more and more families are eating out in the restraunts instead of cooking at home, and quite a bit of people use this time to travel instead of the tradition family gathering, etc.

All in all, if you live in the cities, the lives is no different from that of a western capitalist country. If you live in the country side, most people are still poor, but that is not communism, either.

So China is only communism in name!

[Aerodriver]

Silverspike
In answer to your question about my thoughts of living in China, yes there are many good things and many bad things. I will list some below. For the bad things please do not think I am country bashing, they are just my opinion from living here, so please do not think I am being personal. When I say China, I am not including HK, Macau and I am going to take Shanghai out of China also, not because like HK it is a SAR but because I have found Shanghai to be so different from the rest of China. (Shanghai is one of my favourite Cities in the world)
My dislikes.
1. I find Chinese cities are dirty. Sometime the sky is not clear for weeks and even when there are no clouds there is so much pollution you do not get a nice blue sky. At ground level the cities are very dusty, and dirty. A lot of buildings have a 2 foot dirt mark around the bottom of them and only on some buildings, government or international hotels etc is this washed off.
2. Spitting, it is so common and I find the habit disgusting.
3. Cheaters. So many Chinese people try to cheat people, especially because I am white and they assume all foreigners (laowei) are rich.
4. The quality of buildings and general infrastructure is poor, even many of the new buildings in the major cities are not constructed to what I would say is a good standard. The showcase building that China likes building are all much better and built to western standards. (Remember not including HK, Macau or Shanghai)
5. I know the history between Japan and understand why Chinese do not like them, but most people really HATE (and I mean hate) the Japanese (including children) and that worry me for the future.
6. Chinese find it very hard to take a criticism and always think they have to defend china. China is not the best and can not be the best at everything, many Chinese need to accept that.
7. Sometimes western history books differ from Chinese history books (not talking about japans history books here) Chinese people need at accept that maybe some of the fact from the western history books regarding China are correct.
8. Pickpockets and beggars and they way children are exploited in this role.
9. I do not have free access to news.
10. The way some parts of even the big cities are so poor. China is a county of have and has not.
11. I feel to my friends I can say what I want, but still feel I need to be careful about what I say when meeting certain people, and even on this internet.BUT ON THE WHOLE, I DO NOT FEEL THAT BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING ME.
12. Paper work and bearacrusey

Great things about China.
1. When you make friends with Chinese people they are very loyal and always want to help you.
2. I hate Chinese white wine, but always seem to drink a lot. The reason is because the culture of drinking at dinner when you go out, or for meetings. I really enjoy this side of life in China.
3. it’s an exciting place to be, the country is changing and being a part of that is exciting.
4. Seeing the pride in a Chinese person when they are talking about the space program or other things.
5. In most areas, apart from pickpockets, you feel safe.
6. Everything is so cheap.
7. Chinese food- the best on earth, and so much more varied than I expected.(although I hate the 4kg's I have put on in weight since being here)
8. Chinese girls, some are so pretty - but I guess that is personal taste.
9. Using a san lun che (3 wheel car) scares the crap out of me when I’m in them but also kinda like a Rolla coaster.
10. Such a varied country, because of my job I get to see lots of it and some parts are very beautiful.

I could probably list about 100 good and bad points. To go from a European country to living in China there are things that are not as good or human rights (I use the term very loosely) that I am used to, and because I am used to the European way I miss them. Sometimes because a Chinese person has never had these things they do not miss them when they go to a western country.
But the bottom line is I choose to live here, so that should say it all.:china: If anyone has specific questions please ask. Oh- and please no country comparisons between what I have wrote about, they are just my personal thoughts.

And to BAIBAR OF JALAT
quote "Britain still is a nation of drunks, highest alcohol death rate in the EU :D "
I find that saying a country is a nation of drunks and using the sniggering face after it highly insulting to anyone living in Britain and I hope someone from Britain meets you one day and smacks you in the mouth.:nono: We could come up with a bad statistic for every country on earth if we want to.

[Gollevainen]

Well A guestion popped my mind (and this isent only for china, Other cultural areas representatives can also answer from their own halv)

Does the concept of sauna (using of steam in bathing), appear in chinese/asian culture, and what are the general traditions of bathing in there?




Thougth we finns claim the Sauna as our own (the word Sauna, nevertheless is pure finnish), Its quite common in Russia too, and also in middle east. Other scandinavia have inherited Sauna from viking days, from east...or from us finns
(so when ever you spot a sweden claiming sauna as their own invention, you know he is lying, or replacing a national feeling of inferiority
:D:D joke, joke no harm taken:D :D )

So the sauna surely is 'eastern' concept, but wheter this is unique gift from finno-ugric people to the world or typical eastern phenemmenon, I dont know. So does it root as far as to china? Or to any miniority culture in china??


And to BAIBAR OF JALAT
quote "Britain still is a nation of drunks, highest alcohol death rate in the EU "
I find that saying a country is a nation of drunks and using the sniggering face after it highly insulting to anyone living in Britain and I hope someone from Britain meets you one day and smacks you in the mouth. We could come up with a bad statistic for every country on earth if we want to.


And thats not even truth. yeas, britons migth score in the statistics, but i think we finns would take that tittle to our own, as will russians.

[Gollevainen]

I have 4 "kids" All adults now....In California where I lived they have a sex/human/race eduction class in the 6th grade. I told them if they did not undertsand anything about the class I would answer them...My ex-wife talked to my daughter about sex. I talked to my sons as need be...Ain't easy but I did it....

You are right ..everyone is different!..

Well i did know about these things from a older neighbour boy, I think, when I was 6 or 7 years old...still cannot imagine my parents of saying or telling it to me....not even today...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
and then it has been constantly arround in the media so I quess nowadays children in the west (or att least in US and Finland as we share the TV program population, in oneway manner thougth:D :D )
Dont have to do more than open a TV, watch it for one day, whitout their parents noticing it, and voilà...

[SampanViking]

Another thank you to Silverspike for his on going recollections. I certainly look forward to reading more.

This time however, I would like to say hello to AeroDriver.

I notice you are an Airline Pilot and am curious as to who you fly for? Is is a International Haulier or an Internal Chinese Carrier?

My experience of China is restricted to Hong Kong/Guangdong where I have family, so can claim no knowlege of the Central and Northern Parts.

One thing I always notice straight away when I arrive (I am partly curious as to whether or not you have been in PRC long enough to start accepting this as normal) is the tremendous energy and buzz you feel as soon as you step out of the Airport. I cannot ever remember feeling anything like it here in the UK.

Conversely when you visit Europe (are you a Brit?) are you struck by how slow everything seems?

Broadly much of what you say concurs with my own experience, both the good and the bad. I do tired of the beggars and street hawkers (Hello boss you buy watch, you buy DVD)

I also agree about a lot of the new build housing. I remeber a couple of years back been show around a brand new Luxury Estate just outside Dongguang, by a sales girl who was totally oblivious to the fact the the Bathroom Tap had sprung a fountain like leak and was flooding out the entire appartment.

I kknow what you mean about Big Brother too. I have sometimes wished that this "Police State" would sometimes provide a few more Police.

Finally, if you have any thoughts or observations on the development of China's Air Travel Industry, I would be very interested to hear them.

Cheers SPV

[KYli]

Aerodriver,

Most things you said are truth, and it is nice to hear from a western who live in China. But I do have different opinions about somethings you said, don't take it as offense.

1. Yes, I do think a lot of cities are dirty, and sky is cover by pollution espeacially in the industrial cities in North. But I do not think shanghai, HK, macau are best, I would say that Dalian, chengdu, wuhan, Qingdao, Hangzhou and Xiamen are just as good or even better. I love Hk, but I would say the pollution there is worse off than most chinese cities.

2.Spitting is disgusting but China is not the only country have this problem.

3.Agree, but they do not only cheats White, my dad is native of Fuzchou but also was cheated few times when he was there few months ago. I think it is whether common pratices to take advantages from people who did not lived in the area.

5. A lot of Chinese hate Japan, but I don't think these will be going out of hand. The relationship between China and Japan are very complicate, these kind of dislike increased after Japan PM visited to the shrine.

6. No nationalists will take critising easy, I have friends who will jump to defend their coutries(Russia, Koera, Japan vietnam, British and others), and I do not think chinese is the best whether we are one of the bests:) .

7. Well, I do agree the Chinese history education policy is not perfect, but since I have the prestige to have education from China, HK and US. I would conclude that every one of them are bias. When you said that Chinese should accept facts from Western history book, I would strongly disagree. Because the western history books are also tried to hide many facts from their people, and they also promoted their own national ideaology. Why should Chinese took the western point of views about their history as facts, I doubt you could say that the Westen history book is unbias.

[adeptitus]

What is China's national ideology?

Short answer: "Do whatever that seems to work"

Long answer: IMO the PRC government still follows Deng-era's "Socialism with Chinese charactertistics", to look for practical solution rather than political ideology. Quote:

"There are nearly 200 countries in the world with a population of more than 5 billion. There should not and cannot be only one mode of development, one concept of values and only one type of social system in the world due to differences in historical conditions, social systems, development levels, cultural traditions and concepts of values."

So rather than banging your head on Marxism, Deng believed that everyone should develop their own solutions based on what works. The purpose of socialism is to eliminate poverty, and staying poor ("pauperism") is not socialism.



7. Well, I do agree the Chinese history education policy is not perfect, but since I have the prestige to have education from China, HK and US. I would conclude that every one of them are bias. When you said that Chinese should accept facts from Western history book, I would strongly disagree. Because the western history books are also tried to hide many facts from their people, and they also promoted their own national ideaology. Why should Chinese took the western point of views about their history as facts, I doubt you could say that the Westen history book is unbias.

You can have 2 persons agree to a "historical fact", and have completely opposite views on it. This kind of debate is impossible to resolve, except maybe agreeing to disagree.

In the US, the education/academia tends to lean to the left ("liberal bias"). I attended HS in the US and can only think of 1 teacher who was a "right winger". Most of the others are definately on the left and pro-socialist/government subsidies. As matter of fact I just had an e-mail exchange with my old HS teacher on the importance of "money management education" to HS students. This was her comment:

As far as "personal money management" goes, this is a great idea, as long as you are indeed upper-middle class, 5-6 figure income, well-educated, and have the requisite "personal money" to manage! Unfortunately, this is NOT the description of the majority of our country, urban, suburban and rural citizens. You need to get out of Orange County for a while and see how the real world lives!

@_@ I'm sure most of you would realize teaching money management skills to HS students is to prepare them for the future, and definately not intended as a solution to ADULTS that are already in poverty. Yet she rabidly shift toward the urban/rural poor and calling them the "majority of our country" as the "real world" like a starved seagull diving after a clam on the beach.

Now imagine what kind of "history" education she gives to her students. LoL. You can give 2 teachers the EXACT SAME textbook, and get completely different teachings from them.

[netspider]

Silverspike
My dislikes.
1. I find Chinese cities are dirty. Sometime the sky is not clear for weeks and even when there are no clouds there is so much pollution you do not get a nice blue sky. At ground level the cities are very dusty, and dirty. A lot of buildings have a 2 foot dirt mark around the bottom of them and only on some buildings, government or international hotels etc is this washed off.
2. Spitting, it is so common and I find the habit disgusting.'


Although I am a chinese, I have to agree with you on these. Most northern
Chinese cities are dirty and dusty, especially Beijing. I remembered when I first came from Wuhan (a southern city) to Beijing, I felt so disapointed. In about half a month, I could not see a blue sky. I had to wipe off my desks and computers almost every day in Fall because of the dusts.

The spitting, huh, I hate this. It is so disgusting. I once read some articles
saying it is actually related to the heavy air pollution in northern china. Breathing such air will quickly make your throat feel dry and uncomfortable, and the result is spitting. I once met a guy who is a regular racer at Seattle. He told me he once lived in Beijing for a short time and he just could not run over there because of the air pollution. He resumed his regular practices only after he moved out of Beijing.

I really wish our government could do something effective to the environment pollution.


3. Cheaters. So many Chinese people try to cheat people, especially because I am white and they assume all foreigners (laowei) are rich.

One thing to learn is Bargain. Always bargain unless you shop at mall. Cut to half at least, or quater sometimes. Bargain is one thing a person have to learn if he lives out of western countries. It is NOT unique to China.

Personally, I do not think they are really cheaters. They just assume you will negotiate on prices. They know nobody will buy at the price they ask.


12. Paper work and bearacrusey

I have mixed feelings about this. Sometimes I think United States has more paper work and bearacrusey than China. In China, sometimes the government can be very efficient, I guess that is one advantage of "non-democracy"? If you know the right people, sometimes a phone call can solve all problems instanteiously. In U.S, everything has to go to the normal procedure, tons of paperwork and then wait for three years without a word. Anyone here has dealed with USCIS before? I guess you know what I mean.
However, I do feel fairness in U.S though, maybe that's the good thing.

[KYli]

You can have 2 persons agree to a "historical fact", and have completely opposite views on it. This kind of debate is impossible to resolve, except maybe agreeing to disagree.

In the US, the education/academia tends to lean to the left ("liberal bias"). I attended HS in the US and can only think of 1 teacher who was a "right winger". Most of the others are definately on the left and pro-socialist/government subsidies. As matter of fact I just had an e-mail exchange with my old HS teacher on the importance of "money management education" to HS students. This was her comment:

As far as "personal money management" goes, this is a great idea, as long as you are indeed upper-middle class, 5-6 figure income, well-educated, and have the requisite "personal money" to manage! Unfortunately, this is NOT the description of the majority of our country, urban, suburban and rural citizens. You need to get out of Orange County for a while and see how the real world lives!

@_@ I'm sure most of you would realize teaching money management skills to HS students is to prepare them for the future, and definately not intended as a solution to ADULTS that are already in poverty. Yet she rabidly shift toward the urban/rural poor and calling them the "majority of our country" as the "real world" like a starved seagull diving after a clam on the beach.

Now imagine what kind of "history" education she gives to her students. LoL. You can give 2 teachers the EXACT SAME textbook, and get completely different teachings from them.

Agree, US education tends to leaning toword the left. I guess it really has to do with there are so many ethnic and reglious groups, and the teachers tend not to offense anyone(As matter of facts, I think most teachers in world are leaning to left). There are more right wing teachers in the southern state and rural area, and most of the private schools are probaly leaning toward right.

It is difficult to agree with histrical facts, because each person or group might have differents opinion and agendas. You will be rather lucky if you could get some agreement, the sad part is most of time the results will be extreme from each side.

[lookandsay]

I think I can answer this. Apart from a few of the very old people who lived through the revolution times, most people's ideology today is Money or Capitalism. People are judged by their earnings and poessions rather than their revolutionary ideals. I think that is a pretty good indication. :china:
yes,it's right quitely.

I have 4 "kids" All adults now....In California where I lived they have a sex/human/race eduction class in the 6th grade. I told them if they did not undertsand anything about the class I would answer them...My ex-wife talked to my daughter about sex. I talked to my sons as need be...Ain't easy but I did it....

You are right ..everyone is different!..
hi,popeye:
i live in the mainland of china.i have a son about 10 years old.i want to know how do you told your son about sex.
thank you!

[crobato]

Best cities:

Xiamen, Chengdu, Dalian, Hangzhou, Shanghai. Xiamen and Dalian tends to be the cleanest.


The bad.

1. Some places are so polluted you can't breathe.

2. Some people try to cheat you if they see you as a foreigner.

3. Some people are jealous of you if you are overseas chinese and may try to cheat you.

4. The spitting!

5. TV is so boring at night.

6. Some food is too oily.

7. I hate seeing all sorts of animals being served up in the restaurants.

8. Some people argue and fight loudly and rudely in public.

9. Don't pick a fight with old people, even old women! They are a lot stronger than you think. They can haul a bag of rice up a 300 step hill without breaking a sweat!


The good.

1. The sights. Many historical places to go, lots of beautiful scenery.

2. Generally great food.

3. Many beautiful girls

4. I love those Urals type bikes they use as tricycles. These are copies of Russian Urals which are copies of WWII German BMW bikes. They are the true workhorses of the Chinese farmer.

5. Great prices.

6. You can buy literally everything there.

7. The sense of dynamicism and sheer energy.

8. The places are always constantly changing and improving. When I first came there, it's hard to find a good toilet. Now they make the toilets.

9. I love the architecture and skyrises.

10. You can buy lots of nice magazines in the streets. Do you ever wonder where many of the military pictures comes from? They came from military magazines sold in the street side.

11. Very safe. Little crime.

[KYli]

Crobato, I would mostly agree except the last part. The crime is increasing in a lot of cities and espeacially in the south.

[T-U-P]

Although I am a chinese, I have to agree with you on these. Most northern
Chinese cities are dirty and dusty, especially Beijing. I remembered when I first came from Wuhan (a southern city) to Beijing, I felt so disapointed. In about half a month, I could not see a blue sky. I had to wipe off my desks and computers almost every day in Fall because of the dusts.
and this is when i come and say go to shenzhen. it's a fairly new city, started developing in the late 80's and unlike beijing and shanghai, it has a very short history. it used to be a fishing village, but most of it is gone now. so basically it's a brand new city started building in end of the 80's. there're not as much rusty and old buildings there and i actually saw blue skies when i stayed in there during the two past summers. and btw, there're just as much dust here in vancouver. i wiped my computer 2 days ago and now it's filled with dust again.

[curse]

This is on-off topic topic, but does anyone have a estimate figure of the cost of a round trip flight to china for... 3 week vacation and enough for a nice hotel and such and what do to. I really want to go and visit the places, I like the "saving money" part most of all. If yall have any tips for a traveler to China that would great!

[bd popeye]

hi,popeye:
i live in the mainland of china.i have a son about 10 years old.i want to know how do you told your son about sex.
thank you!

Actually it was easy for me because the school system in San Diego, California has a one week camp that teaches the kids about sex and other human relations. Race ,cutural etc. the kids are about 11-12 years old when they go. Before they go a parent can go over the teachings with the child...That made it easy for me. plus in the US there are so many books that you can buy to teach your kids about sex. Books that a child can read and understand. That too was a big help! 10 I think is a little young. 12 would be better....

[Aerodriver]

Sampan Viking
Chinas Civil aviation is booming as I am sure you will know. It will continue to grow and a similar if not slightly faster pace than the economy. The three private airlines that have started up, while in the black, are not able to operate as they would like. Due to government directives (I think protecting the state owned airlines) they are not able to implement a true low cost/budget airline model. This will change over the next few years and it will cause a huge amount of trouble for the state run, not efficient airlines. Another problem is the pilot shortage and lack of local training facilities. The is a new very large flight school near Beijing but most training still takes place in America. They can not accept a huge influx of foreign pilots because unless they speak Chinese they are restricted in where they can fly, also even if they can speak Chinese they are restricted from some airports.
I don’t really notice a buzz at airports anymore, but I do at major train stations, although this is more to do with the number of people travelling than a cultural thing. Again I don’t think things are slow in Europe, I think things on the whole happen faster, but because there are more people doing it or more of a certain thing happening in china it seems that there is more energy.
I'd rather not say who I fly for - for obvious reasons.

KYIi, I refer you to point 6. Chinese find it very hard to take a criticism and always think they have to defend china. You can not defend against my personal opinion I live here and to me my points 100% are true (most expats have similar views). Chinese people often try to deflect a criticism by saying other people do it, like when you said "Spitting is disgusting but China is not the only country have this problem" you are trying to defend it by saying other countries do it. I was comparing China to western countries as I was asked to, no western country has a spitting problem and yes other countries do it but it does not make it right. The same id true for most of your points.

Western history books do have a bias, but if you look hard enough you can find books that tell both sides of the story, and you can make your own conclusions, this free speech is not available in China.

On the issue of dust it might have been better to say dust/soot.

[lookandsay]

[QUOTE=crobato]Best cities:
9. Don't pick a fight with old people, even old women! They are a lot stronger than you think. They can haul a bag of rice up a 300 step hill without breaking a sweat!
QUOTE]
It's a joke.:rofl:



thanks a lot for popeye's answer.maybe i can buy some books to teach my kid about sex.

[KYli]

KYIi, I refer you to point 6. Chinese find it very hard to take a criticism and always think they have to defend china. You can not defend against my personal opinion I live here and to me my points 100% are true (most expats have similar views). Chinese people often try to deflect a criticism by saying other people do it, like when you said "Spitting is disgusting but China is not the only country have this problem" you are trying to defend it by saying other countries do it. I was comparing China to western countries as I was asked to, no western country has a spitting problem and yes other countries do it but it does not make it right. The same id true for most of your points.

Western history books do have a bias, but if you look hard enough you can find books that tell both sides of the story, and you can make your own conclusions, this free speech is not available in China.

On the issue of dust it might have been better to say dust/soot.

Well, I knew here in USA has a spitting problem, off course in comparison to China is very minor. But I am willing to take it back, Chinese people should stop spitting because it is disgusting period:o .

I never said that China has free speech, but it is not as bad as you think. People do tend to know the both sides of the story, and have a very different of opinions. I do agree that Western history books have more informations and opinions, but the government and media also are trying as much as possible to influence your ideology as early age as possible. After awhile in West, I will conclude that in the end of day there aren't that much different of thinking in most people for the ideaology. Most people just take it as it is.

I strongly agree that China is extrmely polluted, but I just want to point out there are some great cities which are less polluted. Eventhrough it is rather very few of them.

I do not have problem for people to critising China, if what they said is true and informative. Even you do live in China, it does not mean what you say is true because it is just your personal opionions. What you say about Most Expats have a similar views are just crap, so some people agree with your views give you the right to say you are correct. I would probaly find tons of people who will agree with me, so does it mean I am never wrong:roll: .

I do agree with a lot of things you said, but I seriously did not agree with some others. These does not make me defensive about China, it is call different of opinions. Most people in the West only used One Single System to judge things for right or wrong, but they never took in the perspective of differnet cultural and ideology of dfferent countires. The world is not White or black, so please do not think that you have the moral ground. China do not need to change to fit your perspecive of world, but for the better of chinese. Sometime you might see things unacceptable, but it might be perfectly ok for others.

Lastly, IT is not only chinese who will defend their coutry, every person in the world will defend their countries without hesitate if their country were critising wrongly. And do not give me BS about I am denfensive for This One.:p .

[Vytautas]

How about those forced military camps.This may be political bs,but bbc once showed how 10th grade students have to go through a force military training camp.The chinese goverment say they are doing this because the children arent as patriotic (or something like that) as before.This explanation on the other hand didnt impress me and i would like to know more about this issue.

[KYli]

I heard about it from press also, but I got no idea. The members who live in China now will answer it better. Most of my friends did not go to military camp, but since they all came from same area, I don't know about situation of others place.

[T-U-P]

How about those forced military camps.This may be political bs,but bbc once showed how 10th grade students have to go through a force military training camp.The chinese goverment say they are doing this because the children arent as patriotic (or something like that) as before.This explanation on the other hand didnt impress me and i would like to know more about this issue.
yes, there are military camps and most (it's impossible to get everyone) of the gr.10s have to go. i didn't go because im in canada but my old friends went. and i've heard it's not all that bad. at least the one my friends went let them bring just about anything. so they brought 2 full bags of food each :roll: from their point of view, the camp is useless. they sing those old military songs, and had those physical trainings, etc. the best part was firing those 3 live ammunitions. ONLY 3!!! but then again, it got them out of school:D .

i think it's a 1 week thing.

[adeptitus]

How about those forced military camps.This may be political bs,but bbc once showed how 10th grade students have to go through a force military training camp.The chinese goverment say they are doing this because the children arent as patriotic (or something like that) as before.This explanation on the other hand didnt impress me and i would like to know more about this issue.

Here's some articles from the People's Daily:
http://english.people.com.cn/200111/11/eng20011111_84316.shtml
http://english.people.com.cn/200412/27/eng20041227_168790.html
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2001/Nov/22069.htm

I was watching CCTV on cable recently and saw a segement on HS students paticipating in a week-long camp, sponsered by the school and military. The students were taught some basic skills like how to pitch a tent and cook their own meals. There were no weapons training and some of the kids looked miserable and complained about having to do their own laundry (by hand scrubbing) for the first time. o_O Not sure if that was part of the supposed "military training".

[KYli]

yes, there are military camps and most (it's impossible to get everyone) of the gr.10s have to go. i didn't go because im in canada but my old friends went. and i've heard it's not all that bad. at least the one my friends went let them bring just about anything. so they brought 2 full bags of food each :roll: from their point of view, the camp is useless. they sing those old military songs, and had those physical trainings, etc. the best part was firing those 3 live ammunitions. ONLY 3!!! but then again, it got them out of school:D .

i think it's a 1 week thing.

Is this waste of money? What is CCP trying to acheive? How widespread is it? Do it include both public and private high school?:)

[Vytautas]

firing those 3 live ammunitions. ONLY 3!!!
From what i saw they also wake them up at night to teach them how to deploy a chair and sit.Imagine a company of teenagers standing up and sitting down time and time and time again.Well lets just say i dont understand what they are trying to archieve.

[T-U-P]

Is this waste of money? What is CCP trying to acheive? How widespread is it? Do it include both public and private high school?:)
i think the main thing it's trying to achieve is to make the younger generations more independent and less dependent on their social status. a lot of the kids these days are pretty rich and waste money and don't do anything other than play computer games and watch tv, and eating of course. so i think the CCP is trying to get them more active or something along that line. i believe officially all public and private high schools have to participate.

[KYli]

i think the main thing it's trying to achieve is to make the younger generations more independent and less dependent on their social status. a lot of the kids these days are pretty rich and waste money and don't do anything other than play computer games and watch tv, and eating of course. so i think the CCP is trying to get them more active or something along that line. i believe officially all public and private high schools have to participate.

If the main thing is trying to achieve to make Kids more mature and wise, that will be good idea. Nowaday, young teenagers just not as hard working as before. It is interesting that some of my friends did not go to military camp. Maybe since they have already graduate high school eight or nine years ago, the program is not as active as now.

[RavenWing278]

most private school here in Australia have the option of doing a 6 month military camp if their participating in the school cadets.

6months! thats half of yr 10 wasted.
i think the main reason of getting teenagers to attend military camps is to maintain some sort of discipline. i remember when i was in primary school in Shanghai they made us march around the school quadrangle for an hr a day in formation

[Aerodriver]

The 1 week course for younger people was introduced because of "the little emperor" syndrome, where the one child in the family is very spoilt. A lot of them were becoming selfish and because they were spoilt also lazy, the military camp was introduced to address that issue mainly- or so people say who I have asked.
I was also told that when people leave high school and go to university they need to do one month military training at the university. Most people I asked said it is a waste of time, just marching in the hot sun (September) for up to 7 hours a day. Someone said to me if they were going to join the military that is fine, but they were going to university. They also said it was cruel because some people were really unfit and this was not taken into account and many people simply collapsed in the first few days. It did not include any weapons training or similar. However it was a good ice breaker to start friendships at university.

[PiSigma]

u guys got some of the reasons..
one other major reason for the whole military training is from recuitment. since most university kids have never been exposed to how the military works, they don't usually consider the military as an option once they can get in a university. but once they have been exposed to it for a month in university, some of them really likes it and may decide to enlist or go to a military academy after they graduate, and the PLA really need talented people with a university degree.

one of my cousins enlisted with 2 of his friends after university, but then again, his parents are officers and grandfather was a red army vet. but his friends he meet in university don't have anyone that was military, and really like the whole discipline they got in the first month and enlisted.

there's also a bit of the "people's war" mentality in this too. due to this, the government at least know that people that have gone to high school knows how to shoot a gun, sure they can't be very effecient at killing anything, but give one million people guns, they're gonna end up killing smething.

[silverpike]

i am so sorry that i didn't post any reply in past few days! i was too busy working on my coursework!

i am grateful that this thread was answered by many members.:) and thks a lot! i will try to come back to the forum ASAP. and i will always follow this topic.

[lookandsay]

limited by my english level,i can't express my idea exactly.but will always follow this topic.

[FuManChu]

How about those forced military camps.This may be political bs,but bbc once showed how 10th grade students have to go through a force military training camp.The chinese goverment say they are doing this because the children arent as patriotic (or something like that) as before.This explanation on the other hand didnt impress me and i would like to know more about this issue.

I'm not sure about national service. It's useful and probably necessary in small countries like Switzerland, as they can't afford a large standing army. But in contrast somewhere like China should be the last place to need it for a military reason, especially as it is not "real" national service - isn't it a matter of weeks, or something? Sigma that is an interesting idea - I'm sure it could also be a leftover from that era. Not of course that it would be terribly useful.

It's so short I don't think that it really makes kids less selfish. So it probably is about an attempt to make the children more "patriotic" and loyal to the Party. Not that it probably works as the old men hope it would, but the government still thinks it's worth it. So really it is a bit of a waste of time - having a mandatory course that focused on something like first-aid would be much more useful.

[petty officer1]

I have chinese friend that been to the military camp in china.

one day we were talking about it he said all they do is learn how to march...
march and march all day long. then at night they have to do post.

but the most interest thing is he say they teach them to resembel a AK blind folded!

I think it is a good thing to teach some spoiled kid how to behave, because he say before the training he was god in his family! now the platoon officer in the camp tuned him up pretty bad. after that he got alot better grade and came to TX:) Now he is nicer to his parents when I went to his house.

[lookandsay]

If a topic is too long, the people do not have the patience completely to look.this topic is very good.
Hoped more people pay attention to it.The Chinese civilization is longinquity very much, has very many foreign friends to want to know.

[Gollevainen]

but the most interest thing is he say they teach them to resembel a AK blind folded!

Well we had to do that also. I think it's standart training method in all armyes. Its purpose is to teach soldiers to be familiar with their weapon and able to overhaul it in any conditions, night or day....
....anyway I managed to dismantle and put it back together in 45 secconds blind folded (about 25 secconds for eyes o