China Invaded

[WEN?]

hey guys,

just asking but it is to my knowledge,not too long ago (something like 200 years) china was invaded by i think 8 countries and was beaten up bad. as we where still using the good old sword, bow and arrow the invaders were using guns. some countries that participated in the invasion were britain and i think also russia. after defeating china they burnt some very large and famous palace or something important like that to the ground and also stole most of china's very precious stuf. e.g. all the really good jewelry and the royal stuff that was important mainly britain). so if u guys know anything about this war could you please fill me in.

regards WEN?

[Kiwi]

Sounds like the Opium Wars?

[IDonT]

Just do a search for the Opium Wars....very sad history of China, very shameful history for UK and France.

[PanAsian]

Yes, that would be the opium wars. It is a good illustration of how isolationism and failure to improve the backward social, political, and economic systems of the country at the time contributed directly to military ineptitude and vulnerability in multiple respects, technology, logistics, command and control. It was a shameful time FOR CHINA and should remain a reminder for posterity of how the country, any country, should not be run and should not be allowed to become. :mad:

Contrast Japanese history during the similar period, the Meiji Restoration, during which Japan changed itself from a backwards country (in a similar state as China at the time) into at least a first rate modern regional power that was able to launch WW2 against practically all of its neighbors. It is regretful what the Japanese directed their modernization towards, but how they developed themselves is worthy of admiration and should be a source of inspiration to every developing country.

[New2u]

SO U DIDNT KNOW WHY HONG KONG WAS HANDED BACK TO CHINA IN 1997!?!!?

when we lost that war, we had to give hongkong up. and we just got it back it in 1997.

[adeptitus]

Sounds like the Opium Wars?

I think he's referring to the eight allied power invasion in 1900-1901. The old Summer Palace was, however, burned in the second opium war.

The second opium war occured in 1858-1860 and only involved 4 powers, UK, US, France, and Russia. Though it was mostly an Anglo-French venture, and they all hauled away loot, with the Russians gaining the most later through Treaty of Aigun, in which Qing ceded outer Manchuria to Imperial Russia.

The British forces, lead by General Lord Elgin (James Bruce), sent 3,500 men to burn down the old Summer Palace of Beijing over French objections to conceal the looting. One only need to visit the British Museum to see where the goodies went.

The Elgins are well known for lotting priceless artifacts. The Elgin who looted and burned the old Summer Palace is James Bruce, 8th Earl of Elgin. His predecessor, Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin, was the British resident general in Athens, which was under the Ottoman Empire at the time. That guy was responsible for looting countless Athenian stone artifacts from the Parthenon, Pediment statues, Acropolis, Erechtheum, Temple of Athena Nike, etc. They're now stored in the British Museum and known as the "Elgin Marbles".

hey guys,
just asking but it is to my knowledge,not too long ago (something like 200 years) china was invaded by i think 8 countries and was beaten up bad. as we where still using the good old sword, bow and arrow the invaders were using guns. some countries that participated in the invasion were britain and i think also russia. after defeating china they burnt some very large and famous palace or something important like that to the ground and also stole most of china's very precious stuf. e.g. all the really good jewelry and the royal stuff that was important mainly britain). so if u guys know anything about this war could you please fill me in.
regards WEN?

The eight allied power invasion of China involved UK, Germany, US, France, Russia, Japan, Italy, and Austria in 1900-1901. It was mostly the result of Boxer Rebellion spinning out of control. At first, the allied powers lead by British Vice Admiral Seymour didn't take Qing military seriously and attempted to invade Beijing with only 2,000 men, they were beaten back after 20 days of fighting during June - July, 1900 by the Wuyi Army, lead by General Nieh Shih-Ch'eng. General Nieh was killed a month later, which lead to the decline and breakup of the Wuyi army. Then in August 1900 they made a more cautious advance with 20,000 men and successfully invaded Beijing.

What followed was yet another orgy of rape and pillage, except this time the worse offenders were the Germans, who killed a lot of people. The British and the French simply went on their looting spree. Under pretext of searching for boxers, they even forced their way into the Yonghe Lamasery and carted off with anything made of gold or silver. The Japanese broke into the Ministery of revenue, looted 3 million teals of silver, then burned it to the ground.

The Qing government was forced to sign the 1901 "Boxrer Protocol" to end the war. They had to execute 10 officials, pay $333 million, destroy the Taku forts, grant more concessions, etc. The Americans were nice enough to give some of the $ back as scholarships and help build Tsinghua University. The Russians occupied parts of Manchuria, which eventually lead to the Russo-Japanese war a few years after.

As for sword, bows, and arrows, you might be thinking about the boxers, or the Qing army during Taiping Rebellion of 1851-1866. Yes a lot of boxers were armed with swords and spears instead of firearms. By 1900 the Qing Imperial troops were mostly armed with firearms, but of mixed quality comparred to the better-equipped western forces. Plus, the Qing troops did not receive good training.

Back during the Taiping rebellion era (1850's), the Manchu Banner Armies were still armed with swords, spears, and bows, relying heavily on calvary for offensive power. Only elite infantry units were armed with matchlock firearms.

[Liberator]

Its the opium war alright.

Check here for more details : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_war

[Red Guard]

no, that's the 8 countries invaded china in 1900. first opium war was in 1840, second opium war was in 1860. 8 countries invasion was in 1900, and it started because the chinese rebel, or called...boxers rebelion something...., they raised a rebelion against the "foreign devils", mainly everyman who is not chinese were beaten and killed. they attacked the embassies too, that's why the 8 countries raised the war on us. they were....US, UK, france, italy, japan, russia, germany and...forgot the last one. so they landed in tianjin area and taken beijing later. the royal family and government fleated (bad spelling) to another city, so we assigned another treaty to give them money and stuff, so they left. in the past 100 years, china lost a lot of things, it's good chairman mao just show all the foreigners middle fingers, and kick them out of china.
1949, when shanghai was first liberated. some US soldiers were driving madly in the city and hurted some people , just like they do in japan today. and current mayor of shanghai, later chinese army marshal, Chen yi, taken them down and they were court mashaled as well, he said:"this is people's new shanghai, not the old shanghai, the empirialists' days are never coming back."

unfortunatly, today's chinese again treat the white people like they are superior and sXXt.

btw, japanese army in the 8 countries were the best with their army orders, they didn't rape or rob the civilians almost at all, comparing to the other "civilized christians".

[renmin]

Yes indeed its the opium wars. known as the united 8 country army in Chinese. these lunatics, burned houses, pretty much every thing the japanese did in WWII without the tourture. they stole valuable art and antiques. most of the antique and art from China you see today in US art meuseams, etc. were all stolen in China during opium war. they also burned down a valuable garden in Beiing which is let a wreck today as a mamorial. it was first opium was sold to Chinese which made them weak then the attack begens, and as mentioned before, hong kong (xian gan) was given to britain and other cities as well.

oh and red gaurd, what do you meen by "today's chinese again treat the white people like they are superior and sXXt"?

[Schumacher]

Very informative thread. Little wonder many western nations are paranoid abt China's potential rise. Worried abt China looking for payback in the future maybe. Anyway, I guess they also have to worry abt every other non-European nations as well since the colonial empires extended to every corners of the world & worse atrocities were commited in the past.
With the latest evidence, albeit still controversial, of Zheng He's discovery of America, it shows the contrast of Chinese expeditions to the European ones.
http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5381851

It's also interesting to see the level of corruption & ineptness of the Ching dynasty given that an army of abt only 20000 could bring them to their knees regardless of the degree of backwardness of their military tech. It showed a complete collapse of the morale of the dynasty & its determination to defend the country. This may not be too surprising given the Manchus were a different race. They may have been more keen on saving their own royal family than the Chinese nation.

[Red Guard]

i couldn't agree with you, schumacher. from my point of view, the foreigners always misunderstand chinese culture and chinese dynasties. foreigners intend to think that the manchurians are most likly, a....different nation from china, so when they rule china, they are like other races to rule chinese. but chinese don't really think so. the failure of mongolians was because they did not adopt chinese culture, that's why they ended up in 86 years. but after several decades in the midland, manchurian were basicly changed to midland chinese. at the end of the dynasty, manchurians are chinese, chinese are manchurians. besides, manchuria was part of china before that as well. it's a bit complicate for foreigners to understand this kind of chinese rule....

to renmin:
in 1949, chairman mao led us to glory and taught us not to fear white people, they are nothing superior than us. but after he died, the rest cowards officals tell us that the white people is everythign, they are so good, so advanced, too advanced for us, so we have to beg for their knowledge and "advanced culture", so our chinese could be civilized. just bunch of traitors and fake communists. that's why today, when i go back to china, they see my face and do not give me a smiling face, after i show my passport, they all of sudden change face and smiling at me and this and that, just all because i do not hold a chinese passport. chinese do not get a better right in china, that is what i am talking about.

[renmin]

originally posted by red gaurd
to renmin:
in 1949, chairman mao led us to glory and taught us not to fear white people, they are nothing superior than us. but after he died, the rest cowards officals tell us that the white people is everythign, they are so good, so advanced, too advanced for us, so we have to beg for their knowledge and "advanced culture", so our chinese could be civilized. just bunch of traitors and fake communists. that's why today, when i go back to china, they see my face and do not give me a smiling face, after i show my passport, they all of sudden change face and smiling at me and this and that, just all because i do not hold a chinese passport. chinese do not get a better right in china, that is what i am talking about.[/QUOTE]

i see. Yes part of Mao's speach during founding o the PRC, he said PRC's people have stood up meaning they are now strong and ready for anything. well for right now, I doubt the Chinese still really fear the white. well back on topic, like I said the opeim war was to weaken the Chinese with drugs make them lazy and tired every day, then come in and take them out. you can see that china was often picked on in the past.

[renmin]

woll vincelee. whatch the language. what are you talking about? present or past? calm down.

the other countries joined in because China started to refuse to continue purchasing opium from britain.

[Red Guard]

opium war started because of chinese policies of con british. but the other countries joined in mostly because of their embassies were burned down and civilians got killed. but, mostly, those are excuses, they all wanted to grab a plate and feast on china. after 1949, the only land wasn't given back were from the russians.....(not counting macao and hongkang, that is)

[WEN?]

was that land not given back by any chance the modern day Mongolia? i was told that russia took it from us and maybe it was during the opium war. i also think what adeptitus and red gaurd were talking about is what i was asking about. why did china burn down the other countries embassyes?

[Aerodriver]

FIRT SORRY ABOUT THIS LONG POST
As a westerner currently living in China, I am still amazed by the self-centred hatred some, luckily a small minority, of people harbour to the past injustices that the "west" imposed on China. Yes it’s important to look back at history and not forget the past. For example I'm British did you know that concentration camps were not invented by the Germans for us against the Jews? They were invented by the British for use against the Boar in the Boar wars in South Africa in the 1900's. What some people in China need to remember is every country has done bad things in the past and it is not something to be ashamed of, look at them as something you can learn from. I always have to have conversations with Chinese people about the opium wars and how bad Britain was, yet no Chinese person will talk about when the Chinese invaded Vietnam in the 1970's or when it sent troops to fight against a multi-national force under United Nation's command in Korea and I could probably make a list of other shameful things, just as I could make a list of Shameful British or western history. So come on guys, it’s a new century, don't talk about Chinese people thinking westerners are superior because it’s simply not true and any of this anti-western hatred seems to come from uneducated Chinese with small social circles who have never seen the world. China and it's people are great, just as I think Britain and its people are great, but we are both far from perfect AND remember there is always two sides to every story.........including the opium wars and the burning of the summer palace etc.

And I quote from RENMIN “like I said the opium war was to weaken the Chinese with drugs make them lazy and tired every day, then come in and take them out.”
Sorry but I have never heard so much Crap in my life. The war was simply about money and trade, not so we could weaken you to invade, most of the contact between China and the west between 1700-1900 was about trade. Due to the Cohong that the Chinese emperor set up (to basically make money for the emperor) there was quickly a large imbalance of trade. The British through the east India company sent James Flint, a Chinese speaking trader (note the Chinese government of the time had band traders from learning Chinese so the government could control trade and change tariffs) to complain about restrictions in incoming trade and corruption in the Cohong. He was imprisoned for presenting petitions from Chinese nationals who wanted to trade freely, learning Chinese and sailing to a port in northern China. The British then sent another representative, Lord Macartney to try set up permanent diplomatic relations in Beijing and allow fixed tariffs and more inward trade. He was refused.
Due to the now large trade imbalance, we British loved our tea, Britain through the East India Company sold large amounts of Opium to CHINESE traders (although licensed by Britain) in INDIA, who then shipped it to Chinese smugglers in S.China.
In 1838 A Chinese official , Lin Zexu, was sent by the emperor to India to ask the British to stop the trade, also in this time a letter was sent to Queen Victoria asking her to stop the trade, the letter was ignored by Britain. During negotiations, partly because he was not taken seriously he took 350 foreigners hostage, including the British Superintendent of the area ( Charles Elliot)- which as you could imagine somewhat angered the British. Anyway it was agreed that all opium trade was to be stopped and the hostages released. Which would have been a good end to the whole process. However in 1839 the Qing Dynasty ordered all British to leave Guangzhou (the only treaty/trading port in china for foreigners) and terminated trade between China and Britain. Britain then sent forces, and only British forces were involved at this time, to force the Chinese government to resume trade. The out come of this conflict was equal relations between Britain and china; four more ports open to foreign trade, abolition of the Cohong and unfair import tariffs and the surrender of HK in perpetuity.- I'm not saying that is fair, but it is truth.

[KYli]

FIRT SORRY ABOUT THIS LONG POST
As a westerner currently living in China, I am still amazed by the self-centred hatred some, luckily a small minority, of people harbour to the past injustices that the "west" imposed on China. Yes it’s important to look back at history and not forget the past. For example I'm British did you know that concentration camps were not invented by the Germans for us against the Jews? They were invented by the British for use against the Boar in the Boar wars in South Africa in the 1900's. What some people in China need to remember is every country has done bad things in the past and it is not something to be ashamed of, look at them as something you can learn from. I always have to have conversations with Chinese people about the opium wars and how bad Britain was, yet no Chinese person will talk about when the Chinese invaded Vietnam in the 1970's or when it sent troops to fight against a multi-national force under United Nation's command in Korea and I could probably make a list of other shameful things, just as I could make a list of Shameful British or western history. So come on guys, it’s a new century, don't talk about Chinese people thinking westerners are superior because it’s simply not true and any of this anti-western hatred seems to come from uneducated Chinese with small social circles who have never seen the world. China and it's people are great, just as I think Britain and its people are great, but we are both far from perfect AND remember there is always two sides to every story.........including the opium wars and the burning of the summer palace etc.

And I quote from RENMIN “like I said the opium war was to weaken the Chinese with drugs make them lazy and tired every day, then come in and take them out.”
Sorry but I have never heard so much Crap in my life. The war was simply about money and trade, not so we could weaken you to invade, most of the contact between China and the west between 1700-1900 was about trade. Due to the Cohong that the Chinese emperor set up (to basically make money for the emperor) there was quickly a large imbalance of trade. The British through the east India company sent James Flint, a Chinese speaking trader (note the Chinese government of the time had band traders from learning Chinese so the government could control trade and change tariffs) to complain about restrictions in incoming trade and corruption in the Cohong. He was imprisoned for presenting petitions from Chinese nationals who wanted to trade freely, learning Chinese and sailing to a port in northern China. The British then sent another representative, Lord Macartney to try set up permanent diplomatic relations in Beijing and allow fixed tariffs and more inward trade. He was refused.
Due to the now large trade imbalance, we British loved our tea, Britain through the East India Company sold large amounts of Opium to CHINESE traders (although licensed by Britain) in INDIA, who then shipped it to Chinese smugglers in S.China.
In 1838 A Chinese official , Lin Zexu, was sent by the emperor to India to ask the British to stop the trade, also in this time a letter was sent to Queen Victoria asking her to stop the trade, the letter was ignored by Britain. During negotiations, partly because he was not taken seriously he took 350 foreigners hostage, including the British Superintendent of the area ( Charles Elliot)- which as you could imagine somewhat angered the British. Anyway it was agreed that all opium trade was to be stopped and the hostages released. Which would have been a good end to the whole process. However in 1839 the Qing Dynasty ordered all British to leave Guangzhou (the only treaty/trading port in china for foreigners) and terminated trade between China and Britain. Britain then sent forces, and only British forces were involved at this time, to force the Chinese government to resume trade. The out come of this conflict was equal relations between Britain and china; four more ports open to foreign trade, abolition of the Cohong and unfair import tariffs and the surrender of HK in perpetuity.- I'm not saying that is fair, but it is truth.
As much as I agree the opium war was history, but I do think chinese need to learn and know about it. The West has been powerful for centurys, so it may think forgot and forgive is very easy. But as the people who suffer, I think they are much more difficult to do it. Ask the Blacks of African, Indian of America and the Asian all suffer great deal from the hand of western imperialist, it takes more than time to heal the wounds. So when the conflicts began in these region, the western media will always got no clues why leaders who they consider evil got the support of people.
Also what you said about the opium war not fully correct, the war is not only about trade. It is also about imperialism and want to conquer China, but since China is so big and there were so many countries. They tried to weaken the Chinese, so each fo them can take a piece of China. Secondly, the first Opium war begin when the british seamen who was kick out by chinese killed a chinese at kowloon. When Lin asked them to hand over to try at chinese court they refused, Elliot did tried the seamen at the british jurisdiction, but all found not guilty. Lin was not satify, so he end all trade with british. Cut off all food and water and ask portugal to kick out the british at macao, the british went to hong kong stay there until the british send in their navy. And there were also second opium war which opium become legal, but this time lead by both french and britain. the Boxer rebellion which was the war that when eigtht countries invade china at 1900.

[crobato]

There was nothing shameful about China's invasion of Vietnam. It's purpose was to teach the Vietnamese and the Soviets a lesson, and it succeeded, showing the Vietnamese that the Soviets could not help them if China got serious in invading them. The Chinese only sent second tier troops, keeping their elite forces in the northern borders facing Russia, and these troops suffered immense casualties. Yet they took over their objectives and showed to the Vietnamese that unlike the Americans, the Chinese are not afraid to take casualties. And the Chinese, once objectives were attained, withdrew. The invasion itself was encouraged by China's Western partners at that time, such as the US, for the obvious Cold War reasons. And the strategic effects proved more longer lasting than the Vietnam War because it signaled the fatal breakup of Communist hegemony in Southeast Asia.

Neither is the intervention in Korea a campaign of conquest. China warned the UN they would intervene is the UN brought the conflict too close to Chinese borders. MacArthur ignored these warnings, and China made true to its word. It is not a war of conquest, but of intervention to help a fellow Communist nation.

These are not wars of imperialism, out to enslave people, force people to take drugs, and exploit their natural resources.

What I would regard as shameful would be China's support of that genocidal Pol Pot and his murderous Khmer Rouge regime. But that is beside the point.

As a trivial note, there is a side effect with regards to the Opium Wars and the burning of the Summer Palace. British looters brought back to Britain some cute pet dogs they looted from the Palace. Thus the Pekingese was introduced to the world, and much of the current population of Pekingese descended from these dogs.

[Aerodriver]

I think in the modern day, invading any country "to teach them a lesson" is very shameful. Do you not think every government should be afraid of taking casualties in war, because surely the whole purpose of a government to protect the people and given then a better life. There is nothing macho about sending poorly equipped troops into battle just so they can show the world you can take casualties and teach another country outside your borders a lesson. Should that country not be free to choose its allies, even if it does not agree with the bigger neighbours thoughts? Sounds like what you’re saying is send the troops in, get people killed, don’t care about the local civilians afterwards and then leave- sounds a little like us brits 150 years ago.
The reason why the local people support dictators is not because of some imperialist past, or maybe it is as this is personal opinion, but I would guess its because they have always lived in a state with out free press and there fore believe what they are told to believe about there government.
In my opinion if the imperial powers wanted to cut China up into colonies it would have happened, the population did not on the whole support the emperors and the western powers had more than enough firepower if needed, as for it being a big country so was India.
As for Korea, with out Chinese help and diplomatic pressure the war would not have started in the first place if the north, under Chinese direction did not invade to south. True the American general advanced too far north, but China sent troops because it was already too heavily involved in a conflict that is was mostly to blame for starting- not because it wanted to keep it word.
Also I really enjoy reading different side’s history of an event/war so please don't attack my words, just giving you the other side to the story- as what I have read on the causes of the first opium war, is in UK text books so is probably biased to UK side of things just as some text books in China are biased to Chinese side of things.
Nice quirky fact about the dogs, I visited the summer palace last week but its in repair at the moment in many places so kinda spoilt my visit. I'll go again when it’s finished.
As a final thought- EVERY country, including China and the UK need to learn from its history, other wise we will just make the same mistakes and with todays weapons……………………….

[Aerodriver]

As a final point Quoting "Ask the Blacks of African, Indian of America and the Asian all suffer great deal from the hand of western imperialist, it takes more than time to heal the wounds." Why not ask the Scottish in Scotland about Englands past against Scotland. Equally as bad as Africa but they dont wollow in self pity or hate, - well ok some do. But do you not think China, the Han majority, also, on a smaller scale has an imperialist past, just think of Tibet?

[Gollevainen]

Thanks from this enlightening answer, A view like you gave was good for a stance, as I feel that we have lately almoust sunked into nationalistic and country brashing fortest of Chinese and US perspective. Its nice to have chinese members in here whit not so naive/nationalistic perspective (No offense lads, but you just tend to keep me busy when ever you get heated up:p ) in among our few US members who remembers that politics arent allowed in here... Please enjoy whit us and remember to read the rules, introduce in itroduction thread and bal bla bla...:)

Sinodefenceforum moderation team

(and to those who cannot read behind the lines, cut the heat ok?)

[KYli]

Since it is about china invaded, I could want to stay on topic. So this will be my last reply. I do not want to end up being ban:rofl: , because I have a good record of staying quiet at military forum for eight years.:) I enjoy reading about military forum, but I also saw a lot of flame war that end up badly.
Aerodriver, you are right about the Han do have imperalist, but since Ming chinese did not invade country unless self defense. Of course these have much more to do with chinese self arrogrant, but also about Chinese felt they didn't need anything from outside world. They could have everything it needed by itself, that why, when British forced chinese to trade with them cause so many trouble. Because chinese did not feel it needed to trade with anyone, so british used opium as weapon of trade. Which by all the reasons you stated still is one of worst thing that did to human kind. Tibet, I do not really want to go into it, because the west, chinese, tibet all have different opinions. The west think it is imperialist, chinese think it is their land, tibet is divide by two group one support other against it.
As what you said about why the west did not took full control of china, it was mainly because no single country could do it without other countries interfere. Also even China was very weak by then, it still was not a easy task. The people did not support the emperor anymore, but the Warlords will fought the west if the west took their land from them. The World war one also played a major role, the western suffered greatly after it that why the Japanese became much more powerful in China also.
What I am saying about west do not have moral ground to tell other countries what to do, because dictators/leaders could easily gear up supports from the population just by saying the western imperalism. Each time you sanction a country, the only one who suffered were the people. So the dictators could easily say that you the root for the problems. Also the chinese here mostly lived at the west, maybe even born in the west so they propably did not have the prestige to be brainwash by the chinese government.:roll: :roll: I am born in china, but growth up at hK which is the little colony of yours:rofl: . Now I live in US, actually I got most of my education in US and spend most of time here. Personally I could rather people did not called chinese brainwash, because as much as the chinese government control the media. The chinese do know what it is going on in their country, but they might have different opinions from you or each others. Also you may not notice, but the western medias are also as bias.

[renmin]

FIRT SORRY ABOUT THIS LONG POST
As a westerner currently living in China, I am still amazed by the self-centred hatred some, luckily a small minority, of people harbour to the past injustices that the "west" imposed on China. Yes it’s important to look back at history and not forget the past. For example I'm British did you know that concentration camps were not invented by the Germans for us against the Jews? They were invented by the British for use against the Boar in the Boar wars in South Africa in the 1900's. What some people in China need to remember is every country has done bad things in the past and it is not something to be ashamed of, look at them as something you can learn from. I always have to have conversations with Chinese people about the opium wars and how bad Britain was, yet no Chinese person will talk about when the Chinese invaded Vietnam in the 1970's or when it sent troops to fight against a multi-national force under United Nation's command in Korea and I could probably make a list of other shameful things, just as I could make a list of Shameful British or western history. So come on guys, it’s a new century, don't talk about Chinese people thinking westerners are superior because it’s simply not true and any of this anti-western hatred seems to come from uneducated Chinese with small social circles who have never seen the world. China and it's people are great, just as I think Britain and its people are great, but we are both far from perfect AND remember there is always two sides to every story.........including the opium wars and the burning of the summer palace etc.

And I quote from RENMIN “like I said the opium war was to weaken the Chinese with drugs make them lazy and tired every day, then come in and take them out.”
Sorry but I have never heard so much Crap in my life. The war was simply about money and trade, not so we could weaken you to invade, most of the contact between China and the west between 1700-1900 was about trade. Due to the Cohong that the Chinese emperor set up (to basically make money for the emperor) there was quickly a large imbalance of trade. The British through the east India company sent James Flint, a Chinese speaking trader (note the Chinese government of the time had band traders from learning Chinese so the government could control trade and change tariffs) to complain about restrictions in incoming trade and corruption in the Cohong. He was imprisoned for presenting petitions from Chinese nationals who wanted to trade freely, learning Chinese and sailing to a port in northern China. The British then sent another representative, Lord Macartney to try set up permanent diplomatic relations in Beijing and allow fixed tariffs and more inward trade. He was refused.
Due to the now large trade imbalance, we British loved our tea, Britain through the East India Company sold large amounts of Opium to CHINESE traders (although licensed by Britain) in INDIA, who then shipped it to Chinese smugglers in S.China.
In 1838 A Chinese official , Lin Zexu, was sent by the emperor to India to ask the British to stop the trade, also in this time a letter was sent to Queen Victoria asking her to stop the trade, the letter was ignored by Britain. During negotiations, partly because he was not taken seriously he took 350 foreigners hostage, including the British Superintendent of the area ( Charles Elliot)- which as you could imagine somewhat angered the British. Anyway it was agreed that all opium trade was to be stopped and the hostages released. Which would have been a good end to the whole process. However in 1839 the Qing Dynasty ordered all British to leave Guangzhou (the only treaty/trading port in china for foreigners) and terminated trade between China and Britain. Britain then sent forces, and only British forces were involved at this time, to force the Chinese government to resume trade. The out come of this conflict was equal relations between Britain and china; four more ports open to foreign trade, abolition of the Cohong and unfair import tariffs and the surrender of HK in perpetuity.- I'm not saying that is fair, but it is truth.Money and Trade? that is true, but its a lot bigger than that. I am not offending you just stating points out. have you considered the property destroyed, a beiutiful garden burned in beijing, thousands of priceless jeulary, antiques, pottery all stolen? Yes it was money, but why come here and steal?

[PanAsian]

To get one historical point straight:
North Korea attacked South Korea WITHOUT the consent of the Soviets or the Chinese.

I would like to re-emphasize that as military enthusiasts, as patriots of whichever nation you belong, that the main lesson of China being invaded, as in many cases of other countries being invaded, is two-fold:
- Don't allow your country to rot from within
- Maintain the means as best as you can to deter abuse from without

[adeptitus]

I think in the modern day, invading any country "to teach them a lesson" is very shameful.
<snip>
In my opinion if the imperial powers wanted to cut China up into colonies it would have happened, the population did not on the whole support the emperors and the western powers had more than enough firepower if needed,
<snip>
As for Korea, without Chinese help and diplomatic pressure the war would not have started in the first place if the north, under Chinese direction did not invade to south.


1) They rename "invading to teach you a lesson" to a more politcally-correct term "police action". Different name, but all the same.

2) From a US-centric point of view, the EU Imperial powers and Japan did want to carve up Chinese territory, but it'd harm US trade interest and access to Chinese market. From 1898-1900, then-US Secretary John Hay convinced EU powers to abide by the "open door policy", which guarenteed equal access to Chinese market and protected Chinese territorial integrity.

20 years later, the US again tabled the Nine-Power Treaty to ensure the continuation of the Open Door Policy. It worked for a while until the Sino-Japanese War & WW2. If you're not from the US or grew up reading US-centric history books, your opinion on this part of history may differ.

3) The leadership of the communist block was Soviet Union, under Stalin, not Mao or the PRC. Kim Il Sung went to Stalin to ask "can I invade", not Mao.

http://www.oah.org/pubs/magazine/korea/oneill.html
Between 1945 and 1950 the relative importance of North Korea (the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, or DPRK) had not increased dramatically, and Stalin had refused Kim Il Sung’s repeated requests for permission to invade South Korea. By 1950, however, Stalin saw an opportunity to build on Communist success in Asia and, by so doing, relieve some of the pressure on the Soviet Union in Europe. He also sought to bring Mao’s successful revolution into line with the Soviet Union’s foreign policy goals.

In April 1950 Kim Il Sung again begged for a chance to unify Korea, promising that the campaign would be over in three days. Stalin gave his permission, provided that the Chinese agreed to support the North Korean action (5). Mao, in desperate need of Soviet military and economic aid, quickly agreed. Mao also released over sixty thousand combat-hardened ethnic Koreans from the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) for duty with the Korean People’s Army (KPA, the North Korean Army).


And I quote from RENMIN “like I said the opium war was to weaken the Chinese with drugs make them lazy and tired every day, then come in and take them out.”
Sorry but I have never heard so much Crap in my life. The war was simply about money and trade, not so we could weaken you to invade,

The harmful effects of opium was well known by 1820's (i.e. Thomas de Quincey's Confessions of an English Opium Eater). For the British, who were profiting from opium trade, they see it as pure business. The American scholars at Harvard University, who observed the effect of opium on Chinese immigrants, called the opium trade "the most long continued and systematic international crime".

There is no question that the opium dealers knew fully well what the effect of their product was to the customers. The famed western tradition of ethics, or moral philosophy was severly lacking in these British subjects.

[silverpike]

yea, the offical name of that 'incident' in 'the invasion of the eight west powers'. Britian, France, Russia, and Japan are the four major forces, other countries are basically sending troops as a symbol of war(because it was the Qing Empire that declear war on them in the frist place) some counties like italy only sent less than 50 soilders...

there has been many wars with the west after the opium war, the second opium war, sino-french war,sino-french,british war... the western shouldn't be too suprised that in fact many of chinese people still hates the west.

[Sendoh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_rebellion
This link is although long, should bring enlightenment to those who need more background information on the events leading up to the 8 nation alliance "invading" china. I personally believe Wikipedia is a pretty credible source...

China was such an inviting target....
the emperor or soon to be emperor!!!!!
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5092/puyi5pe.jpg
Some pics depicting boxer rebellion
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5685/boxer3jf.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/262/boxerrebellion2xl.jpg

a while later....
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8913/500pxforeignarmies5yi.jpg
:mad:

[WEN?]

are does japanese,french and german flags being paraded around??? so Russia has a part in this. well get mongolia back sometime soon. wikipedia is a good site but everyone can post an article there so information is not always correct. i do believe a editor does read it before it goes on the site.

[FuManChu]

wikipedia is a good site but everyone can post an article there so information is not always correct. i do believe a editor does read it before it goes on the site.

An editor doesn't have to read an edit before it is made. And I don't think they have to approve a new article either. But many responsible individuals keep track of changes so they can easily revert vandalism or very biased points back.