Combat gears of the PLA

[Red Guard]

how come this board is so chill now? no one comes here anymore. still, i open a new thread to talk about infantry combat gear.
back to the old days, in WWII, the most common personal gear of ammo holder is a cloth belt to be worn on the shoulder or waist. IN 1955, as type 53 rifles are made into a sttandard rifle for the PLA, 53 ammo holder is also worn on the belt. It didn't last long as type 56 entered service. which a new cloth belt ammo holder is issued to the troop.
the type 56 semi auto rifle's ammo holder is combine of X belt and packets for 56 clips.
http://cosin.com.cn/Upload/shop/b2005103117432545.jpg
as type 56 assualt rifle entered the service, the world famous chest ammo punch also entered the service. this gear is still in the service today.

type 81's ammo holder is about as same as the type 56. the punch could hold 4 mags instead of type 56's 3. and it also has 4 smaller packets, 2 on each side, for hand grenade, first aid, or paper, pen and some stuff.

the standard PLA infantry soldier webbing carriage order goes like this.

1.gasmask bag (mostly a 65 gasmask), wear on left shoulder, the bag is at right hand side.
2. stuff bag, wear on right shoulder, the bag is at left hand side.
3. grenade (4 stick grenades) pack, wear on left shoulder, the bag is at right hand side.
4. canteen. wear on right shoulder, the canteen at left hand side.
5. put on the belt, the most common red brown leather belt to keep all of the gears at where they are.
6. put on ammo punch, tie the rope at the back to keep it still.
7, RPG loader, machine gun loader carries on the extra ammo.
or wear backsacks.
8. check your gears.

such webbing could make the progress going very very VERY slow. and at about the early 90s, such problem was noticed to the high command, and one of the first new vest was in progress
it is the type 91 webbing system.

since i need to upload some photos, i will be putting this thread into 3 parts, please don't count this as doulbe posts.

[Red Guard]

the type 91 webbing system has mostly 3 parts.
the vest
the the huge backsack
and the 24 hours backpack.

http://www.jgjp.com/jgbbs/UploadFile/2005-4/20054818829873.jpg

the vest has 4 front mag holders, with 4 stick grenade holder 2 on each side of the rib cage. and at the back of the vest, it has a pack for canteen. it has no S belt, and at the front is connected by 2 metal clipers.

the 24 hous backpack is more a stuff bag, which could contain some bullets and meals.

the only good design of this system is the huge backsack. which could hold winter clothes, sleeping bags, and other stuff. it could open from the top and the bottom. it has two small bags on each side could hold rubber shoes. and below the small pack, one side could hold the gasmask pack another side is for canteen.


the problem with the vest was the greatest. soldiers complain about the loose design, and uncomfortablness. which resulted 91 did not make into the service for a large number.

there, we have 95 vest.

[Red Guard]

the type 95 carriage system is one of the more advanced carriage system to the PLA. it is issued to the troop with the 95 rifle.
type 95 system includes 3 parts:
type 95 infantryman vest
type 95/01 infantryman 24 hours backpack
type 01 backsack.

which type 95 vest includes:
type 95 rifleman vest, sniper vest for 88 sniper rifle, machine gunner vest for 95 maching gun. and 99 submachine gunner vest.

the most common type 95 rifleman vest has 4 front mag holders for type 95 rifle, from photos we could also find such vest could be used for 81 rifle as well. a S belt is added at the bottom of the vest. such belt could hold uni packs such as canteen pack, stuff pack, gasmask pack, scope pack, bayonet board, first aid pack and shovel pack. 4 grenade packs are at the same place as type 91, under the arm. it could hold both stick grenades and hand grandes.

http://www.kaisaking.com/kaisaking/bookpic/200546529533298.jpg
http://www.kaisaking.com/kaisaking/UploadFile/20054652947393.jpg


95/01 infantry backpack
it is a square pack to be worn on the back of the soldier. 2 more mag holders on the outside of the pack. and the main bag could contain meals, bullets and such. at the bottom, there are a pack to hold for rifle launch grenades.
such pack is different for machine gunner and sniper

http://www.kaisaking.com/kaisaking/bookpic/200510232037032042.jpg


01 living carriage sack

it is the big sack. it could hold sleepingbag, winter clothes, and so on. type 95 infantry backpack could be put on such sack

it is similiar to 91 sack, only without the gasmask pack and canteen pack at the bottom.


type 95 carriage system could easily solve the main problem of SPEED wearing for PLA. but the only thing issued to the troop of the vest is the vest and the belt. none of the unit packs of canteen, shovel pack and such were issued to the troop. soldiers still have to put on canteen, and other packs except the grenade pack the old fashion way. which resulted 95 vest DID NOT improve the speed of wearing very much. for this, type 95 is a completly failure to the PLA, and we DO NOT KNOW what the XXXX the high command is thinking!

[ahho]

thought i am off topic but i think this periods are a exam period

[Devil_dingo]

Good photos of the gear. It seems to bear some resemblence to the Israeli equipment though major differences are obvious including the vest like appearance that helps distribution load more effectively.

[Red Guard]

actually, most people agree on type 95 is somehow from LBV (sorry if i spelt wrong, never been a fan of US miltary). and lots of people don't like the idea of 4+1 mags for common infantry man. but my point of view on PLA is that PLA is still a field combat army, with lots of supplies from the rear of the line, 4+1 is just enough for an infantryman. i guess somehow it should be improved as PLA matches to war.

[Gollevainen]

4+1??? Let me tell you from experience, 2+1 weigths too much, even with practice blank ammoes. Our army has calculated that 90 rounds for rifle is sufficent enough to withstand 24h even in most fiercing battles. And less weigth, better gear, better gear, better morale...and so on...well maybe this is artillery point of wiev and from small army, but still...

But I think that most important to personal gear is its adjustability. Finnish gear was wery neat thing and looking from pics it seemed to contain nicely things that would need in various conditions of battle. But in service, its very, very uncomfrotable, you cannot took any bags out of it whitout serious efforts (and risk it to broke), so if you had to move quigly, like we did in one simulated gurellia raid to another battery, we simply leave them in the truck and stucked mags and smokegrenades (wich very used to simulate real explosives) into our pockets and snarbel-proof vest wich were required to wear under the normal battle gear!! (added with constant raining requiring the raincoats to be our de facto service dress, we were mobile as snowmens)
It was quite releifing moment to run in the swamped woods whit no extra weigth, only with your rifle...for prief moment i use to think that i have made wrong decicion to join artillery...well it didnt lasted wery long, i and everybody else of that squad forgot to take my canteen whit me so after our strike was over and we were offically killed. We couldnt redo our strike to my brother's HQ battery as we were dying of thirst. It would have nice renzevou as he would have in guard of some position for 90% posipility...

I think china (and every other army as well) should go on for protective vest/battle gear compination, whit all the heaviyer personal equipment carryed in removable baggs and packs. Modern armyes move more and more in touch with vehicles, trucks and armour and every squad needs a dedicated transporter to move in modern warfare. That allows much of the stuff to left there and old leather personel carrier technigues are more to specially trained troops that needs special equipment of their own thus making need for specialised gears.
And that backpack seems rather small one. Sleeping back i good, but you most likely would want a fieldmatches to go whit it, and winterwear takes afwull lot of space, expecially if we are talking of WINTERs of how i understand them...and for me, it took almoust have of the space to include the personals stuff like your own food, candyes, tea, coffey, sugars, milkpowers, personal hygienia sets, towels....and of course the 'warmemoryes'...it takes lots of space to stuff reindeer horns and undestructed grenades alongside all of that...

[lazzydigger]

4+1 is too much? I don't think so. Diggers get 6 30 round clip. 180 round per person. Under combat, per digger will have the 6 mag + 2 grenade + 1 40mm rocket,2 1iter of water and 1 Kilo MRE, first aid kit and other tools. The poor machine gun crew carrys extra 250rounds machine gun mag on there webbing. . The back pack is about 25 kilos. In it, we have 2 change of uniform and underwear. wool jumper, tent & sleeping gear, 2 liter water. personal hygiene item. extra 250 round for long range partol. It is our House on our own back.

as for 90 rounds quota of finish army.. I know just one section attack, we will use about 2 magazine. 180 rounds don't last too long under heavy exchange.

The diggers from Australia are still very much an triditional infantry on foot. It is motorized, but active on foot recon partrol backed by motorized fire support is the winning package. Like in vietnam. Most time we tried to avoid direct contact with enemy. But when sh*t hits the fang, diggers sure can dig in and fight. In the battle of longtam, 1 company withstanded attack from a full VC regiment. At that time. they used famous 7.62 SLR. it was still 6 magazine per person I think.

Now.. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Gollevainen]

...well our government tryes to go cheap everywhere it can....

But the 90 rounds is calculated by some theoreticans based on our experience in WWII, exspecially form those cruisal battles in 1944...It should last in the most heavyest fighting...but i quess it's different policy in different country...eg. we were not allowed to use the rapidfire mode other than in extreme emergency situations, and in training it was strictly forbidden ...they always told us that this is not an US army, we simply don't have enough bullets...

...and what comes for carrying the stuff around...we artillery mens go every places by cars so we are used to just throw the things in the car...to us even carrying the rifle was sometimes too much for us gunners...:D

And merry christmas to down under as well....

[Red Guard]

your experience in WWII? man, i thought your last battle is with the russians, but anyway. remember back to WWII, you still use single shot rifles? you ever heard of something that fires automaticly?
i am just kidding. but 4+1 is OUR EXPERIENCE on viet name war from 1979 to 1989. and i think the mags should be doubled as many as possible, since the US EXPERIENCE is like...2005....

[Gollevainen]

not "mine", but ours in generaly. And in the end when you use the semi-automatic mode, the shooting is pretty much the same...But it is like i said, our army is no US army. The instructors teached us that in Vietnam, every single deaht enemy, the americans had to shoot million shots. That just wasent afordable to us and they teached us to shoot sharp and only when you knew you gonna make a hit.

[Red Guard]

ahhhh, see that's the point. you are like the chinese army in WWII. because we couldn't produce bullets, and all the weapons had to be taken from the enemy, so they say you have to "destroy one enemy with one bullet". and i think lots of the troopers only given 3-5 bullets before each battle. so after you are done, you just put on your bayonet. what was a hell of time.
ja, but, in battle, you will need a lot of courage just to stay put, aim and shoot. that's why lots of bullets were wasted in battle, beacuse people are scared, they just shoot blindly, to decrease the heart afford. but what you said is what i never heard of, thank you.

[rommel]

Well, from my experience as infantrymen, I can tell that 4 magazine + 1 is enough if the combat doctrine is based on heavy use of machine gun support. Our combat load is similiar to the australian one with some difference. We have 150 rounds, 1 drum for the C9A1 Squad Machine Gun, 2 hand grenade, 1 MRE, Medic Pack, Flash light and water (2 canteen) + some others random items (like the bayonnet) and we carry like the same thing in our backpack.

Well, we don't use much ammo in "combat", because of all the fire doctrine and the C79 scope helps a lot (since the C79 is standart on all C7 combat rifle and look on my avatar ). I never run out of ammo in exercise, even with heavy "gunfight" (but still, I'm a recon...)

Still, Canadian Reserve Infantry is a traditionnal foot infantry, well, we are called dismounted infantry in english, but the french name is Infantrie Lourde (heavy infrantry... quite weird that both name are not similar) We were using the 7.62 NATO before also, we were issued 6 mags per guy, but it was 20 round mag...

[stonewind]

Since this thread is already in the subject of PLA combat gear, I would like to ask another question.

What about PLA's standard infantry armor? Is it inferior or at par with interceptor body armor? How much does it weigh? and how will it limit combat effectiveness in soldiers?

[stonewind]

Interceptor Body Armor
Interceptor Multi-Threat Body Armor System is made up of two modular components: the outer tactical vest and small-arms protective inserts, or plates. The new body armor, which is unisex, is equipped with removable throat and groin protectors, as well as front and back removable plates, which can stop 7.62 mm rounds. It weighs 16.4 pounds; each of the two inserts weighs 4 pounds, and the outer tactical vest weighs 8.4 pounds. The previous body armor, the flak jacket, weighed 25.1 pounds.

The Interceptor body armor's lighter weight provides more mobility than the older flak vest. The new armor also has an outer tactical vest made of Kevlar weave that's capable of stopping a 9 mm bullet, plus the webbing on the front and back of the vest permits attaching other small pieces of equipment. The small-arms protective inserts are made of a boron carbide ceramic with a spectra shield backing that's an extremely hard material.

Soldiers in Iraq benefited from DARPA investments in advanced materials in the 1990s. DARPA developed and demonstrated personal body armor inserts made of boron carbide. These boron carbide inserts are lighter weight than the previous materials, and are being used in the Army Interceptor Body Armor system in Iraq, which weighs 35 percent less than the former vest.

Interceptor Body Armor Components
The outer tactical vest consists of a Kevlar weave that's will stop 9mm pistol rounds. Webbing on the front and back of the vest permits attaching such equipment as grenades, walkie-talkies and pistols. The Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) is made of a boron carbide ceramic with a spectra shield backing that's an extremely hard material. It stops, shatters and catches any fragments up to a 7.62 mm round with a muzzle velocity of 2,750 feet per second. It's harder than Kevlar.

The Interceptor Body Armor (IBA) has significantly improved Soldier combat survivability, but in what ways does it change rifleman lethality? A July 2005 study quantified the effects of Soldier equipment on lethality through multi-factor logistic regression using data from range experiments with the 1st Brigade, 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized), at Fort Riley, Kansas. The designed experiment of this study estimated the probability of a qualified US rifleman hitting a human target. It used the rifleman's equipment, posture, Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), and experience along with the target's distance, time exposure and silhouette presentation as input factors. The resulting family of mathematical models provides a Probability of Hit prediction tailored to a shooter-target scenario. The study showed that for targets closer than 150 meters, Soldiers shot better while wearing body armor than they did without. Body armor had a negative effect for targets farther than 200 meters, and this could significantly impact the employment of the Squad Designated Marksman. The study also showed that the kneeling posture was an effective technique and recommended standardized training on this method of firing.

The Outer Tactical Vest (OTV) is a modular soft armor system; its protection can be tailored to a particular mission threat by adding or removing subcomponents. The OTV provides fragmentation and 9mm bullet protection and replaces the Personal Armor System - Ground Troops (PASGT) vest currently fielded. The OTV base vest weighs less than 6.5-lbs. It provides the wearer with improved fragmentation protection plus 9mm bullet protection at a weight savings of about 18% over the PASGT vest it replaces. A removable collar, throat protector, and/or groin protector may be affixed to the vest to increase its area of protection and casualty reduction potential. The exterior of the vest is covered with MOLLE-compatible webbing hangars that accommodate load carriage using a variety of standard pouches and pockets. The vest is also designed to be compatible with the FLC, ALICE, MOLLE and ILBE load carriage systems. Currently produced in solid shade Coyote brown only, a single OTV may be worn with the Corps' MARPAT camouflage in both desert and woodland environments. OTV is available in five sizes, XS through XL, with the same sizing system used for the SAPI plates.
Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) plates provide additional protection for vital organs. Pockets integrated into the front and rear of the vest securely hold one or two plates. When SAPI plates are not worn, the front SAPI pocket retracts into the shell for reduced overlap and passive cooling. The rear pocket is fitted with a hole, which permits it to be used for carrying an on-the-move hydration system bladder within the vest. The OTV shell and ballistics are separate sub-components, permitting replacement for repair or upgrade without obsolescing the entire system. The Interceptor body armor jacket could stop 9mm handgun bullets in their tracks. Siliconized silicon carbide and boron carbide plates that can stop rifle or machine-gun fire - which was not possible with this jacket in the past - are now available to insert in the jacket's pockets. Simula, with a production capacity of 5,000 plates per month, had delivered 45,000 of its siliconized silicon carbide plates by 2002 and at that time was under contract to deliver 140,000 more; 12,000 of CERCOM's boron carbide plates had also been fielded by 2002. The new armor plates were 55% lighter than traditional body armor, and had a cost approximately 60% lower than the high performance armor plates that were available at the start of the.
The SAPI plate product enhancement (ESAPI) is being accomplished to ensure new technology and capabilities are fielded as rapidly as possible. The initial SAPI armor is effective against a wide array of threats, and has to date saved countless lives. ESAPI increases the level of protection. It replaces body armor that failed to protect US troops in Iraq from the most lethal attacks by insurgents. The ceramic plates in vests cannot withstand some of the munitions used by insurgents. The initiative to replace the armor with thicker, more resistant plates began in May 2004, months after DOD finished supplying the original plates. ESAPI plates began fielding to all Soldiers supporting Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom in March 2005 and will continue until all Soldiers in theater have been field-ed the new plates.
The Armor Protection Enhancement System guards the neck, arms, and groin. The Deltoid Extension adds about another five pounds and protects the sides of the ribcage and shoulders. However, the extension comes with a price for the Soldier. It can limit movement and block air from circulating under the body armor -- decreasing the Soldier's ability to cool off in a hot environment. Everything is a balance. The Army wants all Soldiers to come back without any injuries. At the same time, the Army wants them to be combat effective. Nothing can be made to be indestructible.
The Deltoid and Axillary Protectors (DAP) component of the IBA provides for additional protection from fragmentary and projectiles to the upper arm and underarm areas. These features allow Commanders to tailor Soldier protection to meet mission threat conditions. Iraqi Freedom combat operations increased the extensive use of Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) by terrorist insurgents. Whereas the Outer Tactical Vest (OTV) of the IBA provides torso protection from the fragmentary effects of IEDs, combat commanders and medical personnel identified a shortfall in the upper arm and under arm areas not currently covered by the IBA. To meet this threat and to provide an increased level of protection, DAP was developed. DAP consists of two ambidextrous modular components, the Deltoid (upper arm) Protector and the Axillary (under arm) Protector. The Deltoid Protector attaches at the shoul-der of the OTV and is secured around the wearer's arm with a strap. The Axillary Protector is worn under the OTV and is attached to the underside of the shoulder portion of the OTV and to the interior adjustment strap on the lower side of the OTV. The DAP provides the same level of protection as the OTV. They are issued in sets of two each. The 2004 Army budget bought 50,000 Deltoid Extension sets, all of which were shipped to selected troops by the end of September 2004. The Army requested funding in the 2005 budget to equip all 132,000 Soldiers in the Central Command area of operations with the extension.


That should help clear things up. So what about chinese infantry armor?

[Red Guard]

Since this thread is already in the subject of PLA combat gear, I would like to ask another question.

What about PLA's standard infantry armor? Is it inferior or at par with interceptor body armor? How much does it weigh? and how will it limit combat effectiveness in soldiers?

i am sorry for i haven't been come here for a while now. you'd probably posted this a lot time ago.

to answer your question. currently, PLA troops have no sign of issuing any personal armour system, either, infantry nor other trooper on the field. I had some information came in just about 6 month ago, heard some guy from the airborne troop had been training with some armour on, but, the offical AND most of the veterans tell the other way. So from such information so far, we could say that, the chinese army has no armour being issued to the troop at this point.
since, PLA is used to take some hints with blood from the first a few days of the war, we might expecting them to issue some armour to the troop after a couple thousand soldiers got killed in the first week of the war we will be seeing next.
we do have personal armour in photos, which is very rare, they could be just trying them on, or setting a future example for some high officals, we would never know.

i have no idea HOW some of our comrades from this forum gain the knowledge of personal bodyarmour or flak jacket ever been issued to the troop. please show me the photos where you've seen them. :D