Invading Chinese Airspace

[SampanViking]

If there is such a thing as a pointless topic of conversation, it must be trying to argue the result of an unlikely encounter. Trying to compare any one on one engagement between two different planes is of course pointless, as no modern airforce flies as independant units.

So lets discuss something worthwhile

What would be the experience of an Aerial Invader penetrating Chinese Airspace in order to attack High Value targets?

Bearing in mind the differences between the various Military Districts you may like to consider Invasions from all four compass points.

Off you go then!!

[Yimmy]

It rather depends on who the aerial invader is, and what assets they have available. Do they have anti-radar munitions? Do they have stealth aircraft? Are they adopting a hi-lo-hi attack pattern or lo-lo-lo?

You may want to specify the likes of the above to make the situation plausable.

[SampanViking]

You dont need me to tell you that Yimmy

You can be anyone one you like, with any realistic force package that you think another Airforce can muster. What do you think you would face? What do you think you would need? How would you rate your forces chances of mission success and survival?

All you need is a little research and a good dose of imagination.

[MIGleader]

ok, suppose a u.s/cia operated uav flew from taiwan or japan into china. the chinese would simply shoot it down(like they did dozens of times before), and showcase the uav to the world. perhaps its technology would be utilized in a plaaf uav, such as the firebee was.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/uav/wz5.asp

it would be pretty embarassing for the cia.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

ok, suppose a u.s/cia operated uav flew from taiwan or japan into china. the chinese would simply shoot it down(like they did dozens of times before), and showcase the uav to the world. perhaps its technology would be utilized in a plaaf uav, such as the firebee was.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/uav/wz5.asp

it would be pretty embarassing for the cia.

I am not catching your drift...
How does that relate to the topic?
Are you suggesting the US will attempt an aerial assualt on China with a single UAV?

[MIGleader]

1 uavs. they would fly to beijing, and different shipyards. multiple uavs would be too conspicous on radar.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

1 uavs. they would fly to beijing, and different shipyards. multiple uavs would be too conspicous on radar.

And what would that UAV do? Drop a nuclear a weapon? Take reconassiance photographs that may just as well be obtained from sattelites? Fire missiles or drop cluster munitions on Chinese troop positions? Try to launch a secret decapitation strike on Chinese leaders and warplanners? Engage Chinese aircraft???

[renmin]

UAVs are too small to carry weapons. the most they can carry are 2 sidewinders like the preditor. China has shot down many UAVs and brought them to research institutes to study. In terms of an aireal assult, that might be quite unlikely. It will require a aircraft carrier battle group that will be spotted by Chinese. Besides China has the right to shoot down those stupid UAVs. what are the Americans doing in China airspace in the first place? USA can not protest China shooting down the UAV.

[MIGleader]

ok, screw the uav.
the fact is, most of china's neighbors lack a serious offensive ability. the advanced weapons supplie to japan, korea, and taiwan are all defensive.

ok, what if kim jong il attacked china? i dont think he stands a chance. suppose he continued with nukes, and china attacked him. so kim retaliates by sending his one and only squadron of mig-29s and some of his mig-23s to escort his mig-23ps and mig-23mls and q-5(rather ironic) to attack china. all the while, he has some su-25s launch a deep strike with an il-76 and some md-500 copters ferrying in troops.

china retaliates by sending all of shenyang based flankers to engage him. s-300s and ft-2000s open fire. any troops landing on the ground are wiped out by the pla's type 98 armored divisions.

[renmin]

ok, screw the uav.
the fact is, most of china's neighbors lack a serious offensive ability. the advanced weapons supplie to japan, korea, and taiwan are all defensive.

ok, what if kim jong il attacked china? i dont think he stands a chance. suppose he continued with nukes, and china attacked him. so kim retaliates by sending his one and only squadron of mig-29s and some of his mig-23s to escort his mig-23ps and mig-23mls and q-5(rather ironic) to attack china. all the while, he has some su-25s launch a deep strike with an il-76 and some md-500 copters ferrying in troops.

china retaliates by sending all of shenyang based flankers to engage him. s-300s and ft-2000s open fire. any troops landing on the ground are wiped out by the pla's type 98 armored divisions.North Korea? HA they wont stand a chance. They can barley even penetrate China's borders without being massacred by Chinese troops. second China is not like America who attacks countries that posses nukes. China never attacks first, heard of Mao's saying MIGleader? you should of its quite famous. For one thing the longest ranged missile that Korea has is the Moksong 1, Pekdosan 1 which has only a range of 2000km. relations with North Korea is decreaseing because their leader is a idiot. China is not threatened by NK because they have nukes but it is because Kim had once pointed his missiles at China, but China did the same thing.

[Yimmy]

China never attacks first,

Er, then how do you explain the Chino-Vietnamese conflict? Or Tibet for that matter? In fact, didn't they start the Sino-Indian conflict and all?

[renmin]

Er, then how do you explain the Chino-Vietnamese conflict? Or Tibet for that matter? In fact, didn't they start the Sino-Indian conflict and all?NO NO NO. Im talking about after the comunist took over China. Mao wrote many sayings in a red book and people followed that. One of them is to never attack or harm someone unless they harm you. the wars you are talking about go way back, that time, China attacks and invades many countries because of there emperors thurst for power.

[ger_mark]

you may study abit chinese history even i know more about it (and that means alot :D )

mao was the leader of china when they occupied tibet ...
plus sino vietnam conflict was in 1980's wasnt it ?

[renmin]

you may study abit chinese history even i know more about it (and that means alot :D )

mao was the leader of china when they occupied tibet ...
plus sino vietnam conflict was in 1980's wasnt it ?OOPs my bad, I must have misread what was said! no need for insults, a simple mistake. hey, you know, after Vietnam war, US troops witdraw, by then Vietnam had issues with China and no longer liked them, Vietnam made several threats to China (see, China did not attack for no reson like I had said). And what is it with you people? Hello, Tibet is part of China, they did not ocupy it, it China property! I see this crap every where, god when will they undestand.

[Kampfwagen]

Er, anyway...

My thoughts? Well, I imagine that once, say a UAV entered China's border, they would probably have a good idea as to what exactly it is. Most long-range UAV's are roughly the size of Cesena airplanes as far as wingspan so they wouldint exactly be invisible to radar. Now, I imagine that first border defenses would be scrambled. Maybe a flight of J-7's, a small scramble squadron goes to confirm. When the UAV dosent respond to several pleas to retreat, they will blow it out of the sky once they get in range. Ether that, or any number of Areial Defense SAM sites will do the job.

[MIGleader]

you may study abit chinese history even i know more about it (and that means alot :D )

mao was the leader of china when they occupied tibet ...
plus sino vietnam conflict was in 1980's wasnt it ?

started 1979

lets not get too off track,
so suppose a taiwanese commander thought that a plaaf air attack was imminant. so he scrambles some f-16s and mirage 2000s to attack a chinese harbor. unfortunately for him, the chinese had only been preparing for an exercise. the chinese ships open fire on the taiwanese planes, which need to get close for prescision strike. then more plaaf fighters rust to the defence. the whole incident would probably trigger a pla invasion, and the end of the status quo.

[Vlad Plasmius]

Uhhhh

Sino-Vietnam conflict - Vietnam invaded China's ally
Sino-Indian Conflict - Can't really say, it escalated from a border conflict, China was just the one to initiate the invasion basically the Mexican War for us in the U.S.
Tibet - they were legally China's

so suppose a taiwanese commander thought that a plaaf air attack was imminant. so he scrambles some f-16s and mirage 2000s to attack a chinese harbor. unfortunately for him, the chinese had only been preparing for an exercise. the chinese ships open fire on the taiwanese planes, which need to get close for prescision strike. then more plaaf fighters rust to the defence. the whole incident would probably trigger a pla invasion, and the end of the status quo.

Hmmm, that actually sounds pretty likely, assuming Taiwan continues to be run by the DPP. They could get more radical and paranoid.

One thing I think needs to be adressed is if a B-2 went into Chinese airspace. I think that would really depend on the target. If they went for a target that was high quality there might be systems to detect the B-2 and then it's just a matter of getting a surface-to-air missile to fire where the B-2 will be. If they can achieve that they'll probably shoot it down or at least get rid of its stealth by damaging it. If they were only able to damage it so that it can limp back to an airbase then fighters could be scrampled to intercept or other SAMs could be fired.

[Ender Wiggin]

Tibet was Chinese territory and was never recognized as a nation aby another other power, all maps during the 30's and 40's showed Tibet as being part of the ROC.

The Sino-Indian conflict is very confusing, but I beliueve it is the Indians who build obsevartion posts on Chinese territory.

Sino-Vietnam: Vietnam invaded Cambodia, China's client state, and also it was to call Russia's bluff.

[crazyinsane105]

The Sino India conflict was intiated by India for any of those who are confused. I think we have a thread about it in our military history forum.

[lookandsay]

Er, then how do you explain the Chino-Vietnamese conflict? Or Tibet for that matter? In fact, didn't they start the Sino-Indian conflict and all?
something is wrong.in fact indian and vietnamese defy china before the conflict.

[swimmerXC]

I would love to learn about the Indo-Sino or Vietnam-Sino War but isnt's this about Invading Chinese Airspace :nono: :nono: :nono:
:off :off

[lookandsay]

The Sino India conflict was intiated by India for any of those who are confused. I think we have a thread about it in our military history forum.
according mao's spirit.....'PLa must give them a lesson.for a long time ,we must give them a learn by heart forever.'.......