Who do you admire?

[Obcession]

Well, here's a way to enjoy our new found freedom on the board, which famous person in history do you admire the most? Choose one from the poll, and maybe add a couple of sentences on why, or if the person you admire is not covered, feel free to say it.

[darth sidious]

stalin he brought his nation through its greatst threat he transformed the backward russia into the industrial soviet union

[Gollevainen]

Did the alexander III mean the russian empire in the 19th century who cave us finns lots of libertyes?? Or was it Alexander II...:confused:

[Red Guard]

Chairman Mao is people's red sun.

[DPRKUnderground]

stalin he brought his nation through its greatst threat he transformed the backward russia into the industrial soviet union

While doing that he persecuted minorities and killed millions. What a great leader.

[ger_mark]

Churchill and Bismarck have a far stronger character then the rest of this poll so its between this two

Bismarck has no vote and he comes out of my province, so Bismarck

[renmin]

Chairmen Mao made the new China, He was the one who cared about the people. Mao ze dong did many things to improve China's economy. without him, China might not be at the level it is at today.

[The_Zergling]

Could I say none of the above?...

[MIGleader]

perhaps...do you admire chiang kai shek? or shen yat sen?

renmin, i wouldnt exagerate mao. he certainly envisioned and helped build a great china, but the cultural revolution is a big stain in his carrer.

[PiSigma]

mao didn't creat the cultural revolution.

am i the only one who picked zhu ge liang??? that guy is a better tactician than anyone else on that list. in fact, a lot of the guys that came after him learned his stuff.. so it all started with him. unless u got sun tzu on there, then i would have picked him.

[renmin]

perhaps...do you admire chiang kai shek? or shen yat sen?

renmin, i wouldnt exagerate mao. he certainly envisioned and helped build a great china, but the cultural revolution is a big stain in his carrer.I understand but let me clear this cultural revolution up a little. Mao's intetion for the cultural revolution was to change China a little, to try a new way of life, change the culture a little, there is a saying: different and new ways lead to sucess. This was Mao's idea, to build a new and stronger China, sadly a few things ruined this aproach. for one thing, trying to change was alittle new to the people in China, people have had this tradition for over a thousand years. second thing that ruined this plan: remember the si ren ban or gang of four? these nutjobs where also part of the reason the Cultral revolution became a Cultural Disaster. If this idea would of worked or never came into play, China would be one of the top countries in lead of technology, equal to the United States, but sadly, the revolution made China waste 10 years of research. Remember, Mao might of started the Cultural Revolution but it was not his fault it became a disaster so dont look at it the wrong way.

[rommel]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7494/rom21my.jpg

General Erwin Rommel

Well, I admire Rommel. He's consider one of the last knight, he was a soldier that was only fighting for his country with dignity and honor. He was never involved with any war crime and respect the Geneva Convention. He was also a great fighter, a very good soldier who goes beyond his limit. Loved by his men, he was some one who knew how to earn respect from his ennemy and friend.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9546/img85840pn.jpg

Kirk Hammett

Seem a little bit strange, but Kirk Hammett (leading guitar of Metallica) is a idol for me too. Well, I admire his superb tapping skill in solo. It's like OMG, how can he tap so fast...

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/364/kenpatrick29pr.jpg

Ken Patrick

This guy have so much imagination and entrepeneurship, he fonded CAE Inc (biggest flight simulator producer with 80% of the market), Avcorps Inc (furnisher of Boeing, Bombardier Aerospace and Textron Cessena of plane part) and one of the biggest eggs-laying facility in Quebec.

[renmin]

While doing that he persecuted minorities and killed millions. What a great leader.Stalin is the one who led russia to victory in WWII. he also helped china in technology, he sent several of russia's top scientists to china to help with the technology effort. Stalin was no bad leader, it was not till near the end of his life did he start to become a little "weard", in a way, stalin loved power.

[Obcession]

I just had to put Joan of Arc up there, because I can't give you peoples all men to choose from and no females! :D

Joan of Arc (Jeanne D'Arc), because she was loyal, courageous, strong in faith, and intelligent. She lifted the siege of Orleans in just 9 days. She then took Reims, the city where all past French kings were crowned. She then asked to return to her village, thinking that her mission was fulfilled. The new King of France, Charles VII, would not let her. She then went to wage an unsuccessful campaign to recapture Paris, and was held captive herself. She was burned at the stake at the age of 19, convicted of heresy. She was later made a saint. This was 1400s btw.

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Well, if you Joan of Arc up there, why not Mulan?

Personally, I think the bravest, most courageous and patriotic person in history if Yue Fei.
Yue Fei put duty above everything else, and few people in history have done so much for their country. He had devoted his entire life in fighting against the Jin, the Mongols, and the Jurchen tribes. He fought with valor, demonstrated true leadership, preservered through unimaginable hardship, and stood admant and resolute, unmoving in his cause. He was able to prevail over impossible odds in nearly god-like feats of generalship and martial prowess. Furthermore, rather than betraying his country or saving his own neck, he knowingly walked to his own death when his execution was ordered by the despicable traitors to the Chinese people.

[Kampfwagen]

One of the people I admire the most is Theodore Roosevelt. He was one of our greatest presidents. He fought for equal rights (Not just among blacks, but among the rich and the poor.), established the National Parks system and was an incredibly bold and brave man. He is also the only president in our nations history to have receved the Congresional Medal of Honor, for leading a charge up San Juan hill, turning the tides of both the battle and the Spanish American war. He also averteded a national Coal Crisis, staying on the side of the laborers (He wanted to chuck the representative of the Coal Conglomerates out a window, though he was of course restrained enough not to.)

But on that list I chose Winston Churchhill, because he was a man of indominable charicter, who rose to the ocasion and lead his nation bravely in a time of inummerable crisis. He was the one who despite constant naysaying and doubt in his abilities, continued to fight for his nation and against the tryany of the Nazis.

[T-U-P]

come on people, vote for zhu ge liang! he's one of the greates military adviser ever since the dawn of time. his plans rarely go wrong, and if they did, it wasn't his fault (it's all the stupid emperor's fault).

yea, i like yue fei as well, great guy. what about Joffre (haha, for his determination...)?

[Gollevainen]

Anyway, It would be nice if to change Stalin to lenin...So i would have something more solid to grab on of those politicans...

thought persons that i really admire are the two greatest drummers; Moon and Bonzo...thougth there is always Lalli who killed bishop Hendrik back in eleventh century, a sole remnant of Finnish rebelion against swedes, europe and christianity

[The_Zergling]

perhaps...do you admire chiang kai shek? or shen yat sen?

renmin, i wouldnt exagerate mao. he certainly envisioned and helped build a great china, but the cultural revolution is a big stain in his carrer.

Wow, no F*cking way! Something of interest to note is that most of Taiwan's current generation kids don't have that false glorified image of the KMT that their parents had, and regard Chiang as he was.

A murdering dictator...

If I had to choose somebody I admire off the list, there are a lot of them...

I'll just say Richard Feynman. (Though I hate the bomb)

[Baibar of Jalat]

Winston Churchill once humourously quiped " History will be kind to me because i intend to write it"

Just something i thought was relevent due to Churchill is in the lead in the poll.

[adeptitus]

-_-;; Nobody mentioned Dr. Sun Yat-Sen.

Without Dr. Sun there would've been no ROC or PRC. He is the one true national-father (Guo-Fu) of the Chinese Republic.

[MIGleader]

what are u talking bout? i mentioned him in my previous post.

why isnt ghengis khan on here? or saladin? they wer both great leaders. they certainly had a larger impact on history than zhang ge liang.

[DPRKUnderground]

Stalin is the one who led russia to victory in WWII. he also helped china in technology, he sent several of russia's top scientists to china to help with the technology effort. Stalin was no bad leader, it was not till near the end of his life did he start to become a little "weard", in a way, stalin loved power.

Oh wow, he stopped the Nazis from invading his country. I think anyone in his position would defend the country! And in the beginning of his reign he helped fund the Nationalists, who at that time were allied with the Communists. Isn't it fun to commit genocide!

[MIGleader]

thats not close to all stalin did. he basically spurred the russian industrial and military revolution. people who agreed with his thinking found themselves with cars, homes, nightclubs, and jobs. people who didnt...dissapeared to siberia. he built the soviet empire from the remains of ww2. thge ak-47, t-34, and mig-15 were all the fruits of stalins programs.

[vincelee]

fatman churchill was a deuchesbag. Bismarck, by far, is the more intelligent of the two. But to say these two have much better "characters" than the rest is just plain bullsh!t I expect to hear from that moron GerMark.

Once again, I motion for the establishment of an IQ filter.

[renmin]

Stalin was a good leader, what really messed up russia were the following leaders after him who lust for more power than stalin did. Stalin was the one who brought russia to the modern age just like how Mao found the new China.

[Gollevainen]

Stalin a good leader????????????????

even to a old (well not THAT old...) leftye like me that's BS. The Ironman himself was responsible of most of the soviet missconducts and wrong turns...tough we finns have this saying...Stalin was the greatest Finn-friend of all the russian leaders...becouse he shot all the good officers and military planners thus helped us win in the winterwar...;)

[renmin]

Stalin a good leader????????????????

even to a old (well not THAT old...) leftye like me that's BS. The Ironman himself was responsible of most of the soviet missconducts and wrong turns...tough we finns have this saying...Stalin was the greatest Finn-friend of all the russian leaders...becouse he shot all the good officers and military planners thus helped us win in the winterwar...;)Why do all you people look at the negitive sides?! espicially when there are more positives than negetives, like the cultural revolution, thats just a mistake of Mao but Mao did so much more good for China than bad, same with Josef Stalin, he brought more good to Russia than bad, you people always have to pick out all te nifty crap just to make the person look bad.

[drunkhomer]

stalin??...naww....i aint gonna admire sumbody who killed millions of ppl

[sumdud]

Not Stalin definitely. Sure he built USSR up. Sure he won the war.(Not that Trotsky would not have done so)
But he used his people too dam harsh and killed them. I don't care if he thinks that he is being ambushed, he killed them!!!
And last, he ****** Communism, he ****** Lenin's dream.
-------
OK, my choice of all those was the Rs, especially TR.
Sure, JFK shot for the Moon. Sure he dealt with he got Cuba off. (But man, kruschev........) Eisenhower, sure, he got through WW2, the interstate freeway. Wilson was peaceful.(Well, he's one of the best I'll say, but not good enough to hit #1) Carter actually ruined quite much for constructing... Reagen.....lowered taxes, talked, but not good enough.
The Roosevelts were good presidents, they passed bills, erased the unreasonable, inobjective, and helped America build up.
And Theodore, he was verrry patriotic, and also knew when to do what. (Yes, serving a land is important, but it does not mean you do not spend time with your son.)

Too bad Sun Yet-Sen and Lenin aren't on the list.
Sun was the one who raised China out of poverty and be recognized again.
Lenin was the man who tried for true Communism. (Stalin, his stuff was politics than reality, and it stained everyone behind)
If they were on the list, I'd pick them.

[DPRKUnderground]

thats not close to all stalin did. he basically spurred the russian industrial and military revolution. people who agreed with his thinking found themselves with cars, homes, nightclubs, and jobs. people who didnt...dissapeared to siberia. he built the soviet empire from the remains of ww2. thge ak-47, t-34, and mig-15 were all the fruits of stalins programs.

Oh wow military technology to defend ourselves against the imperialists. I'm glad I'm starving for this! Oh yeah! I finally got my crumb on the bread line! Hooray, this will last my family for a few years! Thanks, Stalin!

[rommel]

here you are, I just add Lenin to the list

PS: Hey mod, we can modify the poll, you know...

[PiSigma]

guys.. stalin killed millions of people in the purges BEFORE ww2.. that's why russia was losing so badly when germany invaded. because most of the talent in the officer corps were killed. all that's left are dumb lackys that support stalin, which resulted in poor tactics and strategies which killed millions more russian trying to defend russia.

[Gollevainen]

Why do all you people look at the negitive sides?! espicially when there are more positives than negetives, like the cultural revolution, thats just a mistake of Mao but Mao did so much more good for China than bad, same with Josef Stalin, he brought more good to Russia than bad, you people always have to pick out all te nifty crap just to make the person look bad.

Stalin didnt do anything good for Russia that wouldnt be done by more clearminded leader. Stalin purged over 40 million people to their death and he is sole one to blame all the negative reputation that the Marxist movment has. Stalin was tyrannial opportunist whit little inteligence to lead scientifical progressive state like the USSR. He's reformist attitude towards russian nationalism and complete ignorance tówards marxist theory coused not only massagering tens of thousand finnish communist, but also effectively sunked all possipilityes of marxist to win their class strugle in global acpect. Komitern should have never been drowe death.
His paranoid foreing policy led russia, in already in turmiol to WWII with more missery to his people. No stalin didnt do anything so good that would justificate that horrid prize it took to pay...

[Kampfwagen]

Stalin really set the template for all of the corrupt, despot leaders that ran the Soviet Union into the ground. Stalin, much like his 'rival' during WW2 also perscicuted Russian Jews and also, under his rule much of Russia began to litteraly crumble and burn. Stalin was incompitent, suspicous bordering if not surpassing clinical paranoia and could easily be comparable to Hiter or Sadamn (moreso Sadamn)

In fact, Lennin's strategy had been, at least to my understanding, to make 'Stalinist' Communisim only a temporary filler, a tranistioning tool so that once order was completely restored after the revolution power could then be transfered to the people. Stalin, being the greedy putz that he was decided instead to keep the power in his hands instead of giving it completely to the people and completely warped Lennins dream of Communisim, and set the template for not only Russia's leaders, but for the leaders of nations such as North Vietnam, (forgive me here guys) China, North Korea and even places like Ethiopia and Iraq which has lead to wide spread poverty and other forms of maltreatment (Though honestly, and as you guys can attest to, China has really cleaned up their act.)

Sorry for flying so far off topic, but Soviet Politics are an intrest of mine :o

[adeptitus]

IMO dictators are not the same as democratically elected leaders, and should not be comparred using the same standards.

From a King (with absolute or near absolute power) or dictator's point of view, if you cannot be loved or respected, then it's better to be feared than to be made fun of. Thus, for an unpopular dictator to retain power, he or she leans toward legalist and oppresive type government.

As for Lenin vs. Stalin, we can judge the two from 1920's-1930's era point of view, and present day point of view. From the 1920's-1930's point of view, I think people would've preferred Lenin and the NEP (New Economic Policy) better, where peasants had greater freedom to hire labor and sell surplus grain. The increased agricultural production means people didn't starve.

Stalin, on the other hand, took the farms from the peasants and shot anyone who opposed him. His forced industralization though 5 year plans killed millions. However from present-day point of view, had Russia not done so, they'd probably have lost WW2 against the Germans. Without the rapid industrialization, Russia would've not been able to produce tanks and aircraft at such rapid pace.

Had Russia lost WW2, it's possible that the Germans would've wiped them out from the west and Japan from the east, resulting in the complete destruction of Soviet Union and the Russian state. Considering the Nazi's effectiveness in wiping out Jews, I think they'd have killed more than the 20 million estimated dead under Stalin's regime.

[Vytautas]

http://www.antraspasaulinis.net/uploader3/failai/guderian.jpg
Heinz Guderian.The father of all modern warfare.Military theoretic...theorecicist...or what ever its spelled like.
The guy that took the best military ideas (stole most of them from V.Triandafilov) and created the famous doctrine called blitzkrieg.Hadnt lost a single battle untill moscow and was one heck of a general.

[MIGleader]

heinz? i thought it was hans

yes, i admire him too. briliant strategist, although his style of warefare became outdated as the cold war came to an end. with sattelites, sams, jamming, stealth planes, uavs, no invasion can be secret.

[ger_mark]

if hitler would have done what his generals told him you guys would talk german today, lol

we had so much perfect generals, stalin also had serval very good but ours were better, the difference is just that hitler gave suicide orders, while stalin was clever enough to listen to his generals

[PiSigma]

the problem was stalin killed all of his best generals... since they are smart and opposed him. if hitler wasn't insane and listened to his generals, it would be german union instead of european union today for sure. good thing hitler was insane i guess.

[MIGleader]

or the doctor that prescribed hitlers medicine was insame. he kept hitler high with a load of drugs, so i guess thats why hitler was insane. he might have had siphilis too.

[Soyuz]

or the doctor that prescribed hitlers medicine was insame. he kept hitler high with a load of drugs, so i guess thats why hitler was insane. he might have had siphilis too.

Yeah i think he had some sort of obcession with this didn't he have a whole chapter in Mein Kampf on the topic of siphilis.

if hitler would have done what his generals told him you guys would talk german today, lol

true but also if he hadn't based his ideology on racist nationalism he may have succeeded in taking russia and perhaps have won the war. Initially in the Ukraine etc the Germans were welcomed by many who detested stalin however those under occupation soon realised that life under german occupation would be worse (due to the wehrmacht's horrific treatment of the so called sub-human slavs) than stalins tyranny.

As for stalin he was clearly a paranoid maniac who trusted nobody not even himself as i believe he once remarked! indeed when the germans first attacked he refused to believe that hitler would launch an attack at this early stage and he refused to allow his forces to fight back against the nazis until a number of hours later!

However it has been argued that the terror he exposed the soviet people to before the war toughened them and helped them survive the harsh conditions of the german occupation.

[sumdud]

May I ask? Why'd you pick Guderian really?
It's just ironic that Guderian was picked even though his tactics were stolen.

No offence though.
----
We can thank Hitler to his stomach problems.

[sadim81]

Hi all, being a navy freak, I would have to give my vote to Admiral Zheng He (1371-1433), without doubt the greatest explorer in Chinese history. :china:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Zhenghepainting.jpg
Zheng He was a muslim eunach who served under Emperor Zhu Di (Yongle), third Emperor of the Ming Dynasty. The great Admiral made a total of 7 lengendary voyages of discovery from 1405 - 1433 that saw trade and chinese influence spread to South East asia(as far south as modern day Sumatra, Indonesia), to Arabia(including the Red Sea up to Egypt) & to the east coast of Africa(as far south as the Mozmbique Channel).

What I admire most about Admiral Zheng He was his courage, navigational & logistical skills in keeping his massive treasure fleets (average over 300 ships and 30 000 men!!! including soldiers, merchants, embassadors, translators, astronomists, botanists and of course prostitutes) operational over vasts unknown, uncharted distances for years at a time. He explored, he traded, he conquered! (sounds like an advert for Civ 4 or somethin...)

How different would the world be if we did not burn all his maps and his ships when he returned?! we could have ruled South East Asia, Australia and Africa 500 yrs ago, as it is we wouldn't have a blue water navy again for another 600 yrs!!!

P.S. Have any of you read 1421 - The year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies? although I don't agree with its findings that the Admiral reached America, its still an interesting read and he does raise some good points. For a more historical look at the great Ming fleets see Louise Levathes' "When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433"

[Vytautas]

Why i picked guderian?Because he was smart enough to sistemise those ideas into one single doctrine and convince hitler of its effectivness.He also added some of his own ideas like attacking enemy communications and destroying their morale.Other blitzkrieg concepts didnt include that,so i have to say that its pretty much his own archievment.As a former radioman of WW1 he realised the importance of proper communication between units and insisted that proper radio equipment is crucial to victory.And he was so right!If a french officer needed artillery he had to fill a petition and send it to his commander,while the germans could recieve quick "on demand" support.

[MIGleader]

zheng he is a great admiral. i beilieve he came within 80 miles of new york in one vyage. probaby the eastern version of magellen, columbus, or francis drake.

why isnt constatine on there? perhaps there should be a section ofr voting on past roman emporers, which can be specified in a post.

[ger_mark]

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/heinz_1.jpg

Heinz Guderian was born in 1888 at Kulm. He was educated in Prussia and in 1908 gained a commission in the German Army. He served as an infantry officer. From 1914 to 1917, Guderian served in Flanders and would have experienced the lack of mobility first hand that existed on the Western Front. He would also have been acutely aware of the carnage that took place on the Western Front. Guderian joined the General Staff and by the end of the war, he had developed a specialised knowledge in motorised transport.

Guderian concentrated his idea on developing a highly mobile mechanised army. He wrote "Actung Panzer" which came to the attention of Hitler. This was Guderian’s plan to make war mobile by having a force that was consistently moving forward, never giving the enemy the time to regroup etc. From July 1934, Guderian was given the task by Hitler of perfecting the fighting techniques of the Panzers – light tanks, supported by infantry and planes – which was to become the legendary Blitzkrieg mode of attacking an enemy.

Guderian faced numerous obstacles within the Wehrmacht’s hierarchy. He was told that an attack on Belgium and France would falter because of the river systems that flowed through the region. How could tanks cross rivers – especially the wide River Meuse?

Guderian’s plan included the use of specialist engineering units that could assemble pontoon bridges quickly that could take the weight of tanks and supporting vehicles. In this way, his Panzer units crossed rivers with ease – and those senior commanders who had failed to support Guderian in the development of his idea, had to admit that they were wrong. A Blitzkrieg attack could also include the use of paratroopers.

It was Blitzkrieg that resulted in the Allies being pushed back to Dunkirk and the initial success of the huge attack on the Soviet Union that was Operation Barbarossa, was also based on Blitzkrieg. For the attack on Russia, Guderian was in charge of the Second Panzer Army.

Ironically, it was the failure of Blitzkrieg to deliver a knockout blow in Russia that led to Hitler sacking Guderian at the end of 1941. However, Hitler reinstated him in 1943 as the Inspector General of Armoured Troops and after the July Bomb Plot of 1944, Guderian became Chief of the General Staff.

Such a resurrection of a military career under Hitler was rare but Hitler himself had experienced the horrors of trench warfare in World War One, and the relationship he had with Guderian was usually a positive one as Guderian had been the man to bring mobility to the Wehrmacht. In response to Hitler’s treatment of him, Guderian remained loyal to Hitler and accepted his dismissal from the positions he held on March 28th 1945, when it was clear that he was incapable of preventing the Russians from occupying Berlin.

Guderian died in 1954 aged 66.

[patriot]

Hi all, being a navy freak, I would have to give my vote to Admiral Zheng He (1371-1433), without doubt the greatest explorer in Chinese history. :china:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Zhenghepainting.jpg
Zheng He was a muslim eunach who served under Emperor Zhu Di (Yongle), third Emperor of the Ming Dynasty. The great Admiral made a total of 7 lengendary voyages of discovery from 1405 - 1433 that saw trade and chinese influence spread to South East asia(as far south as modern day Sumatra, Indonesia), to Arabia(including the Red Sea up to Egypt) & to the east coast of Africa(as far south as the Mozmbique Channel).

What I admire most about Admiral Zheng He was his courage, navigational & logistical skills in keeping his massive treasure fleets (average over 300 ships and 30 000 men!!! including soldiers, merchants, embassadors, translators, astronomists, botanists and of course prostitutes) operational over vasts unknown, uncharted distances for years at a time. He explored, he traded, he conquered! (sounds like an advert for Civ 4 or somethin...)

How different would the world be if we did not burn all his maps and his ships when he returned?! we could have ruled South East Asia, Australia and Africa 500 yrs ago, as it is we wouldn't have a blue water navy again for another 600 yrs!!!

P.S. Have any of you read 1421 - The year China Discovered America by Gavin Menzies? although I don't agree with its findings that the Admiral reached America, its still an interesting read and he does raise some good points. For a more historical look at the great Ming fleets see Louise Levathes' "When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433"

Some even say that he reached America but the key thing is he was involved in the power struggle and led to the killing of a emperor and explored the world because he thought the emperor might have went oversee since his body was never found:china: