Z-19, the new attack helicopter

I'm pretty sure those are just replacement parts, not sure an entire Apache air frame can fit inside a standard commercial container. A lot of things can benefit China's attack helo programs, replacement Kevlar armor, gear box, Disco Ball, FLIR, or possibly entire Hellfire missiles. Even if all those are true I don't think Z19 benefited from any of those though. It's suppose to be an entirely domestic effort and it's aim is simplicity and affordability, a shrunk Z9W like the AH1 is a shrunk Huey.

Originally Posted by vesicles

How did you figure it's small? I don't see any references in the pics...

Since it's based on Z9/WZ9. Most Western attack helicopters are much bigger,usually around the weight of Apache, or at least the Super Viper.

---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 AM ----------

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

back in the summer of 2009 it was reported that Pakistan had got hold of a Apache helicopter found in 2 disassembeled 40ft containers from the Nato supply convoy, these were handed over to the PA which were then sent to China

When US asked for them Pakistan said they were destroyed in a attack on the convoys, a year before that Taliban got hold of parts of 3 US helicopters from similar containers and actually even showed a video of them, the parts were from 2 Blackhawks and 1 Chinnok

this has also been highlighted in Carey Schofield's book, "Inside Pakistan Army" , over the years Pakistan has made "missing" many containers which passed through Pakistan en-route to Afghanistan, and if you ever visit the gun and bazars of Peshawar you can routinely find US equipment, from US uniforms to manuals for helicopters, even tinned food!!

there was one guy who owned a American military Humvee, he had it converted to run on 4 gas cylinders!!

there is a possibily therefore that China has access to the very best American military equipment and some of which will be benifical to WZ-19 and WZ-10 attack helicopter programmes

But the thing about those helicopters is that they are extremely hard to copy. Just like all other military hardware, the shell is the easiest part to manufacture. China imported 24? black hawks and few chinooks, along with C130s in the 80s. But to this day, China still haven't built anything coming close to performance level to these three models. The inner engine and avionics dictates what you can build upon it. When you have the engine, you can easily assemble together a fearsome weapon in very short time. The US airforce was testing countless super avant garde prototypes in the 60s and 70s, some even to this day cannot be replicated by the Chinese counterpart. It is because of their solid foundation in knowhow of engines of avionics.

The Chinese tried to copy those vehicles in the 80s and 90s, but were unsuccessful. It's not that they can't make them, just not as good performance and quality. It's like you smuggled a Ferrari and tried to copy it, but ended up with something like a Lada.

I know news of breakthroughs in weapon and instrument parts are not that exciting, often either not reported or went unnoticed by the public. But those things are the most important.

Blackhawks I know but does China have Chinnoks and C130, I doubt it

getting ur hands on ur adversary is never a bad thing, copying or not copying

these things dont make it to newpapers or articles, they are leaks from liveleaks and wikileaks, the Chinnok parts the Taliban showed were from liveleaks, it seriously compromises US missions in Afghanistan when things like this are reported to the world media

same as the Stinger story, in 1980s Pakistan shaved off the top many Stingers missiles which were destined to the Mujahideen funneled by the CIA, they ended up in the hands of the ISI and in 1989 when US was paying up to $100,000 for each ones return no less than 50 were returned

a massive explosion was set up by Pakistan ammuniation dump in May 1989, this was in a warehouse just outside Peshawar, in the blast Pakistan said all the missiles were destroyed, next day a US military satellite flew overhead the blast sight, all they seen was a big massive crater, this info was only released few years ago by CIA documents, only for the Anza Manpad to emerge in mid-1990 which did confirm Pakistan did have Stingers, Anza uses same friend and foe, and identification technologys as Stinger

what im trying to say is things dont come public as soon as they happen, it takes years even decades

things like engines, transmisison, rotor blades even radar absorbing paint, make for valubale information, you probably re-call the high profile "theft" of the 4 US helicopter engines from transit en-route to Afghanistan, it prompted Senior spokesman for the Pakistani military, Major-General Athar Abbas to make a public annoucment in May 2008 saying they never reached Karachi port in the first place!

btw Carey Schofield is a reputable journalist who has very close contacts within the Pakistan army and ISI, going back almost 20 years, in her book she talks about that helos have gone missing

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

Blackhawks I know but does China have Chinnoks and C130, I doubt it

6585410.jpg071031131212741.jpg071031131212740.jpg

Note the Boeing 234 showing doesn't actually belong to China but a Boeing marketing tool, China did get several CH47s from Vietnam.

cool didnt know that, interesting!

But I think China now is more interested in getting more Mi-26.. Trying to get a BlackHawk similiar type one is probably not on high priority list... Mi-26 is a monster. Able to have the same payload as a C-130..

Mi-26 is too much, something between Mi-26 and Sea Stallion is what Chinas heavy lift will do

They can try to locally build S92 if they wanted too, Jingdezhen has the whole blueprint.

rumored to be instrument mock up

Isn't the Z-19 tandem seat? Maybe it's something new ahead.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

Isn't the Z-19 tandem seat? Maybe it's something new ahead.

If you look carefully, both cockpit seems to be repeated same... It just showing 2 simulator in tandem position.

I mean as a demo for the public. I dont think placing 2 seats in straight position is good for camera view plus the generals..

Yeah that crossed my mind and it's most likely but you'd figure even in a display they should configure it like the real thing.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

Yeah that crossed my mind and it's most likely but you'd figure even in a display they should configure it like the real thing.

Those are all army personnel, the rig looks like for instrument operation training and the panel doesn't look like Z-8/9 (the rig looks like 2 separate set, but all current units using 1-piece through instrument panel both pilot shares), so things do lean in the way to the new attack helicopters like WZ-10 and Z-19.

But that leaves the problem with that HUD at the left station...it doesn't look like either WZ-10 or Z-19 have accommodation for a overhanging HUD...and attack helicopters throw away stationary HUD for helmet mounted display, and China have displayed, a few years back, capable to produce helmet mounted display...

Left panel could be the "Pilot" Station well the Right side is the gunner. Pilots are less likely too need the Helmet mounted Cueing as they only need too move the ship well the gunner needs too target.