YJ-27 anti-stealth radar

When you are looking for a needle in a haystack, you need a big magnet. That's precisely what this radar is for. Big, long wavelengths, that paint a huge brush over the sky.

Think of radars like paint brushes. Fighter radars with high frequency X and Ku bands, they're meant for precise work, like small brushes making very precise touch ups, working on hard to get corners and trim.

Big AEW radars with long wavelengths are like big roller covers, designed to spread out and cover area but not as precise.

Stealth is designed mainly to beat X band radar which is what fighters and many SAMs use, because of its precise tracking. But like with light and all electromagnetic radiation, wavelengths don't bend all in the same way. If you try to bend for X bend radar, it will not get the same result with a lower or higher wavelength. Thus "stealth' is always a compromise, you're making a design bet.

A metric wave early warning radar like this can detect VLO targets, unfortunately, its tracking won't be as precise. That will be the job of another radar, the fire control set, and that task will be much harder.

actually, this JY-27 is pretty old. YLC-20 is the newer anti-stealth radar that they developed (or cloned, since it looks similar to Vera-E). You can find all of this in the anti-stealth thread in this forum.

Originally Posted by crobato

A metric wave early warning radar like this can detect VLO targets, unfortunately, its tracking won't be as precise. That will be the job of another radar, the fire control set, and that task will be much harder.

Then you add bird migrations, clouds, lightning, solar radiation, civilian traffic, jamming, decoys, lousy training/budget, and you end up with a system that warns you of an attack by stealth planes every day of the week.

Originally Posted by SinoForce

Then you add bird migrations, clouds, lightning, solar radiation, civilian traffic, jamming, decoys, lousy training/budget, and you end up with a system that warns you of an attack by stealth planes every day of the week.

not really, there are certain characteristics of a fighter jet that really can't be hidden either way. For example, how many birds or decoys or clouds can travel at supersonic speed?

Originally Posted by tphuang

not really, there are certain characteristics of a fighter jet that really can't be hidden either way. For example, how many birds or decoys or clouds can travel at supersonic speed?

It's a long-wave radar. They are ludicrously inaccurate at figuring out the speed of individual targets in the clutter. That's why police try to get the radar guns with the shortest waves at the highest frequency they can in order to get a better measure of speed. BTW, supersonic (or at least jet-speed) decoys are commonplace - even china has them!

I'm sure the attacking stealth aircraft will change their speed, altitude, direction once they detect the radar (or already have a flight plan to evade it beforehand). The attack aircraft can "see" the radar at much longer ranges than the radar can "see" the aircraft because the radar wave has to bounce back to the radar antenna while the aircraft does not require a bounce to detect the outgoing radar signal.

Originally Posted by SinoForce

It's a long-wave radar. They are ludicrously inaccurate at figuring out the speed of individual targets in the clutter. That's why police try to get the radar guns with the shortest waves at the highest frequency they can in order to get a better measure of speed. BTW, supersonic (or at least jet-speed) decoys are commonplace - even china has them!

I'm sure the attacking stealth aircraft will change their speed, altitude, direction once they detect the radar (or already have a flight plan to evade it beforehand). The attack aircraft can "see" the radar at much longer ranges than the radar can "see" the aircraft because the radar wave has to bounce back to the radar antenna while the aircraft does not require a bounce to detect the outgoing radar signal.

who told you JY-27 is the only anti-stealth platform they have? It's an entire network, including YLC-20 and some of the other YLC radars they have working on different bands. As for supersonic decoys, how many of them do you think the Americans can carry on their aircraft carrier? And how many of them do you think have the RCS of a F-22?

Originally Posted by tphuang

who told you JY-27 is the only anti-stealth platform they have? It's an entire network, including YLC-20 and some of the other YLC radars they have working on different bands. As for supersonic decoys, how many of them do you think the Americans can carry on their aircraft carrier? And how many of them do you think have the RCS of a F-22?

Carrier groups can carry a lot of them because they use them for target practice. The decoys are basically cheap cruise missiles that can be made to fly an attack flight plan. None of them have an RCS of an F-22 because they are meant to force the PLAAF to scramble aircraft and activate defense systems because they can't afford not to. Imagine the radio talk between the chinese operators?

"Are those real air-launched cruise missiles or decoys?"
"Which/how many are the decoys?"
"Is that an F-22 that hasn't dropped external tanks or a decoy?"
"How come none of the targets so far are going supersonic?"
"Hey, I think our target# 69 is also target 96 in your system. Let's not double up on the same plane(s)."
"Oh my god. They are going supersonic and subsonic at random!"
"Several of our targets just dropped from the scope. Has anyone picked up anything new in this area, re-adjust settings now!"
"Send our fighters here. No, send them there. Oh my god, two just got shot down over here."

Originally Posted by tphuang

As for supersonic decoys, how many of them do you think the Americans can carry on their aircraft carrier? And how many of them do you think have the RCS of a F-22?

Quite a few I imagine. Radar decoys were used to massive effect by the Israelis in 1982 and in a towed form by NATO in the Balkans.

I'm sure the attacking stealth aircraft will change their speed, altitude, direction once they detect the radar (or already have a flight plan to evade it beforehand)

So F-22 features a emergy shift which brakes the airspeed down to the level of bird flocks Wow!!!!! So that was the "brake this class in case of emergy" button

Not to mention that long wave radars were pretty much only ones used throughout 40s and 50s, and had just fine succcess telling what is a bird and what is a plane, with little computer processing power. RCS is wavelength dependant, a plane that has a 1 sq. m rcs for cm wavelength radar will have several times larget rcs for meter class wavelength radars. Of course it doesn't make such radars a sure thing against stealth. Less precision can be dealt with to an extent, but their size is the biggest problem.

SinoForce sez;

Carrier groups can carry a lot of them because they use them for target practice.

SinoForce this is a very ludricous statement. The USN does not depoly any sort of drone decoys on their CVN's. Nor do they plan on doing so. Just where did you get this idea? Can you back it up with a link?

The USN does use target drones for "missile shoots"(firings) and war games. Not for decoys.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

SinoForce sez; SinoForce this is a very ludricous statement. The USN does not depoly any sort of drone decoys on their CVN's. Nor do they plan on doing so. Just where did you get this idea? Can you back it up with a link? The USN does use target drones for "missile shoots"(firings) and war games. Not for decoys.

Notice that I typed "can" not "do". He asked how many "can" a carrier battle group carry. So I responded that they "can" carry a lot. As you confirmed, they already use them for taget practice so there's nothing to stop them from sending them over enemy airspace as decoys if they wanted to.

Originally Posted by Gollevainen

So F-22 features a emergy shift which brakes the airspeed down to the level of bird flocks Wow!!!!! So that was the "brake this class in case of emergy" button

I know you're just tooling around, but you seem to underestimate how ****** Americans can be when on the offensive. The US military will tear china's air defenses apart. I'm sure America's enemies will buy more chinese/russian systems in the future and we'll see that they are going to get run over just as hard.

Use the edit button!!! No put downs!

I'm sure America's enemies will buy more chinese/russian systems in the future and we'll see that they are going to get run over just as hard.

If you give a monkey an AK-47 he'll want some ammo to go with it, but he'll probably get killed before he figures out how to pull the trigger. I don't see why other countries losing to us is really relevant.

I'm curious if YLC-20 is PCL or not. I'm also curious as to how extensive a radar network would conceivably have to be to lock-on and shoot down a stealth fighter. I would consider it far more practical to simply have the ability to detect stealth aircraft and launch fighters to intercept. Seeing how the PL-12 and AIM-120 have about the same range it makes sense to me.

Are stealth airplanes capable of absorbing radar waves, instead of just reflecting the waves not back to the source?

The stealth bomber try to reflect upwards much of the radar waves and also downwards but away from the source.

YJ-27 anti-stealth radar how does this radar work?