WZ-10 thread

[kickars]

Originally Posted by Gollevainen

Has dongfeng got it wrong then as in his mainsite, the new attack copter is designated Z-10 rather than WZ-10??

Isen't the copter that is nowadays called Z-15 once called Z-10 as well? or what copter are do you think the Pratt-whitney engines would have went??

I get confessed with Z-10 and WZ-10, too. Even on some Chinese military forum the latest attack helicopters were sometimes simply called as Z-10. And if there is a 'normal' helicopter called Z-10, then what is it? Coz the relationship between Z-10 and WZ-10 can't be like Z-9 and WZ09. As we can see WZ-10 is a pure attack helicopter.

And we all know the engines can't be sold for military use only helicopters. They can only be sold for civilian helicopters. Since most of us have no idea what Z-10 is. We're just left with Z-15 being the latest civilian helicopter from China.

And the most important question is that what engine does WZ-10 use?

[Gollevainen]

Some say that the attack helicopter uses the PW engines and the availability was cut off after it was revealed that it wasen't a civil helicopter. These rumours were simply labeled as Bs as they camed from a source that didn't have much reputability.

But was that poor credibility of the source that makes people say that the new attack helicopter doesen't have PW engines regardless that several sources other than the mentioned ill-famous one???

[crobato]

The Z-10 is a small utility commercial helicopter. It is the WZ-10 that is the attack chopper. Note the W before the Z. Just as the PLA attack variant of the Z-8 is the WZ-8.

The PW engine was read off from the brochure of the Z-10 chopper. Without the W and the WZ-10 won't be on the export list for a while.

[Gollevainen]

Isen't the Z-11 the utility helicopter? Can you post some photoes or links to show if such a copter (utility Z-10) does exist?

I'm well aware of the Z and WZ designations and thus I'm wondering this whole thing. But if the Z-10 isen't assigned to any existing copter, then the people that are talking about Z-10 as the attackcopter means the same thing as WZ-10 regardless of which is the real designation.
For curiosity sake, both Huitong and Dongfeng (the two best english language sources for chinese military aviation issues) refereces the attack helicopter as simply Z-10.

Also I remember some sort of article dating years back which described quite detailed to chinese purchasing Pratt & Whitney engines. Back then it was only assumed that the engines would propably go for the new attack copter. It was during the days when there wasen't any clear images of the Z/WZ-10 existing.

[nifiga]

kamov company carried out the followings works:
it is
- a structurally-power chart
- arrangement
- weight calculation
- aerodynamics

The Chinese side gave the sizes of equipment and weapon, type of engines (T-700), type of cannon (Am-23), amount of members of crew and requirement to the aerodynamic chart

[zyun8288]

that's quite different from "WZ10 is KAMOV company's project for PLA"

AFAIK, china also asked similar questions to other companies, like the south african company. (I guess that's why WZ10 had been believed to be a rip off of SA's heli for quite few years)

At the end of the day, at least we know it's officially admitted that the chief designer of WZ10 spent 3 years in Italy.

[dh19440113]

P&W PT6C-67C turboshafts has 1,531 shp continuous 1,142 kW each, thats more power than eurocopter tiger. If china manage to get its hand on that engine for z-10, than it would be a force to be reckon with.

[Chengdu J-10]

im so confused with this wz and z designation

cause i thought wz is designated as attack heli while z is just heli...wz-9, wz-10 both attack heli and z-10, z-9 are just utility/transport heli...it translates differently between english and chinese cause chinese is basically english backwards and pinyin is different

[Deino]

Originally Posted by nifiga

kamov company carried out the followings works:
it is
- a structurally-power chart
- arrangement
- weight calculation
- aerodynamics

The Chinese side gave the sizes of equipment and weapon, type of engines (T-700), type of cannon (Am-23), amount of members of crew and requirement to the aerodynamic chart

Hmmm ... but why was this secret cooperation never mentioned before, especially as no other Kamov design has at least a piece of similarities to the Z-10 ?
Why are there also more or less confirmed reports regarding a European involvement or at least assistance in transmission, gear-box, vibration analysis and so on … even the airframe looks much more like an improved design based on the Agusta A.129 than any Kamov-type ? So I can’t see any additional “room” for such a Russian involvement besides the European one.

Besides that, the Z-10 doesn’t use a T-700.

Sorry, but I see this very much unlikely without any additional proof or more specific information.

Deino

[nifiga]

Kamov Company ended the draft in the period 1995-1996. Release working design documentation produced Chinese side. For 10 years the helicopter changed a lot, the other engine, gun, sighting device and much more. Draft-Russian but helicopter - Chinese - and this is a very great achievement of Chinese Industry.

[kickars]

So what you are saying is that the original design of WZ-10 was started by Kamov. But it was stopped as soon as it started. Then the final product has almost nothing to do with the original Kamov design since it's been changed totally by the Chinese. But The whole starting point of this project was with the cooperation of Kamov, even though it is now an all different design. Am I right by saying that?

[nifiga]

Incidentally, the project has been start from scratch. The closest to him, a prototype helicopter Ka-50

The Chinese side has paid for and received the draft. In "iron", it epitomized his own. Over the 10 past years helicopter certainly changed a lot of equipment, but little has changed outwardly

[zaky]

What are you claim is weary interresting and give a total new perspective to the whole issue. But plese give us some eveidence

[kickars]

Originally Posted by nifiga

Incidentally, the project has been start from scratch. The closest to him, a prototype helicopter Ka-50

The Chinese side has paid for and received the draft. In "iron", it epitomized his own. Over the 10 past years helicopter certainly changed a lot of equipment, but little has changed outwardly

So, in the end WZ-10 has nothing to do with kamov since it was started from scratch. Just like the latest Type-99 MBT has nothing to do with American helps in the mid 80s, even though they did help the Chinese on MBT designs.

[kickars]

Originally Posted by zaky

What are you claim is weary interresting and give a total new perspective to the whole issue. But plese give us some eveidence

Actually from what he claims it doesn't give us any new perspective on the origin of WZ-10. Coz as he said the current WZ-10 was an all new and different design (started from scratch).