SinoDefence Forum

tphuang · 10-16-2005

an article on WZ-10. Too long for me to translate:
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/crit.../12754247.html

　　问：关于武直十在互联网上传得是沸沸扬扬，莫衷一是，我想问一下到底有没有武直十？
　　答：武直十的存在是毫无疑问的。对于武直十人们犹如雾里看花，这也不奇怪，起码说明我们的保密工作做得是相当成功、相当到家的。

　　问：说到保密工作，我们可以说是谨小慎微，做得是不是有些过分了呢？

　　答：军事保密工作无小事，事事关乎国家的安危、战争的胜负，怎么做都不过分。这绝不是危言耸听，我们在这方面的教训是极其深刻的，别的不说，只说某年某月就是因为某人的泄密，导致了至关祖国统一大业的重大军事行动流产。对军事保密工作，不单是中国重视，世界上任何国家都是如此。保密意识应该成为国人的一种基本素质。

　　问：网友们常常抱怨说，保密保密保来保去，地球人都知道了，就国人不知道，真实情况是这样吗？

　　答：事实并非如此。其实我们的敌人对中国的军事机密比网友们更关心、更热心，他们千方百计、不择手段、尽乎疯狂地搜集中国的军事情报。实际上，我们的敌人所知道的也并不见得比网友们多多少，就拿那个â€œ元â €级潜艇来说吧，要不是国内一个网友在互联网上发了那张船厂栖装图片，老美还蒙在鼓里呢，老美的情报机关为此丢尽了丑。

　　这个例子也说明保密工作要日日讲、时时讲，不能有丝毫的麻痹大意。保密原则也是我们这次谈话遵循的一个原则，能说的说，不能说的坚决不说，还请你谅解。

　　问：武装直升机在现代战争中的地位究竟如何呢？

　　答：武装直升机在现代战争中的地位是勿庸置疑的，已为现代战争的实践所证明。简而言之，武装直升机的作用主要是夺取â€œ一树之高â€的制空权，恰好弥补了固定翼飞机的火力空白；受地形限制和对地面勤务的依赖性小，机动性和隐蔽性好，生存力和攻击力强，可以全天候为己方提供强有力的空中掩护和火力支援，对敌方陆、空目标实施致命的打击，有â€œ飞行坦克â€的美誉，绝不是浪得的虚名。随着新材料（功能材料、复合材料等）、新技术（如微电子技术、信息技术等）的应用和新概念武器（如激光武器、定向能武器等）的研制成功，武装直升机必将如虎添翼。

　　问：还聊武直十。武直十是在什么样的背景下研制的？对我国有何意义？

　　答：可以。众所周知，原先在中国陆军编成内没有航空兵部队，更不用说武装直升机了。而此时，世界各军事强国普遍组建了陆军航空兵部队，装备了包括武装直升机在内的各种先进的直升机，美国代表了世界的最高水平。八十年代初期，以邓公为核心的党和国家的第二代领导集体向全世界庄严宣布：中国裁减军队员额 100万！为了紧跟世界军事变革的潮流，几乎是在同时又作出了组制陆军航空兵的英明决策。

　　陆航组建初期，可以说是白手起家，几乎接收了空军的全部直升机，且性能落后。中国陆航迫切需要各种先进的直升机尤其是武装直升机，以迅速提高中国陆军的战力，使之能与世界军事强国抗衡。

　　â€œ海豚â€直升机全套技术的引进，使中国直升机科研人员真正摆脱了苏联模式的束缚，第一次接触到了世界先进直升机技术，并能够空许我们慢慢咀嚼消化吸收，为后来独立研发具有自主知识产权的先进直升机铺平了道路，这笔学费交的是值得的。

　　上世纪90年代末期，为了适应中国特色的新军事变革需要，根据国防现代化建设的需要，瞄准世界军事技术的制高点，党中央、国务院和中央军委高瞻远瞩、审时度势，经过周密论证后果断作出了一个重大决策：把武直十的研制列入国家â€œ九五计划â€重点武器攻关项目即通常所说的国家â€œ重点型号â€。不用说别的，这一决策本身就极具战略意义。

　　问：请你简要谈谈武直十的研发经过，好吗？

　　答：好的。武直十由中国直升机研究中心担纲，并有国内四十余家相关院所单位参与攻关，最后确定由昌河飞机工业集团公司负责总装。这是一项高风险、高难度的系统工程，机身结构和关键系统技术新、难度高，再加上部队急需、研制周期短，整个研发过程充满了挑战，但也给中国直升机科研人员带来了千载难逢的历史机遇。可以说武直十是集体协作的成果，是集体智慧的结晶。

　　问：武直十为什么确定由昌飞制造，而不是哈飞？哈飞的技术实力不是更强吗？

　　答：当时哈飞的生产任务非常繁重，单直九系列的生产就够忙活得了，已经是超负荷运转，无暇顾及其他。昌飞的技术实力并不弱，我不是往昌飞脸上贴金，直八系列、直十一系列的成功研发就是有力的证明。

　　问：一提起武直十，人们自然就会想到直升机专家吴希明，你能谈谈他在武直十的研发过程中发挥了什么作用？

　　答：吴希明是我国一位年轻有为的直升机专家，现任中国直升机设计研究所总设计师，某重点型号常务副总设计师。他先后参加了我国自主研制的包括直八、直九、直十一等在内的几乎所有直升机型号的设计工作，积累了直升机研制的丰富的实际经验。正是由于吴希明在直升机研发领域做出的杰出贡献，他先后被确定为国家â€œ86 3â€计划飞机基础技术主题专家，国防科学技术工业委员会有突出贡献专家，曾数次在型号研制中立功，数次获省部级以上科技成果奖，先后人选国防科工委â€œ511人才工程â€、国家â€œ新世纪百千万人才工程 â€；第十五届â€œ中国十大杰出青年â€，吴希明也榜上有名。

　吴希明是1998年开始担任â€œ重点型号â€第一副总师职务的，期间创造性地协助总师进行武直十研制的技术协调、组织和管理工作，对武直十的研制成功做出了突出贡献。　

　　问：网友们都非常想知道武直十是什么时候实现首飞的，你能给出一个权威的说法吗？
　　答：呵呵！权威谈不上，不过这也不是什么机密了，说说也无妨。经过科研人员和工人师傅的努力，武直十于 2002年5月通过了地面联合试验，2003年4 月成功地实现了首飞。那是一个激动人心的日子，那是一个值得纪念的时刻：首飞那天，天上下着毛毛细雨，好象是天公洒下的泪水；武直十像一只矫健的雄鹰拔地而起，随心所欲地作出各种各样的特技动作，展示出了优异的性能，在场的人员无不动情！

　　问：武直十总共研制了几架原型机？

　　答：不好说。像武直十这样的型号，原型机一般来说不少于两架，地面联合试验如静力试验等要用，空中飞行试验如性能验证也要用。

　　问：关于武直十的说法很多，我也很想了解一下武直十总体上到底处于什么水平？

　　答：经过全体参研人员刻苦攻关，顽强拼搏，以两年的时间完成了欧美等西方发达国家费时6年才能完成的工作，创造了航空史上多项奇迹，将中国直升机研制水平向前推进了整整20年，为迅速提高部队的作战能力和国防武器装备的现代化建设作出了卓越贡献。

　　问：谈到武直十型号研制过程创建出的奇迹，你能列举个一二三吗?

　　答：下面说法采自公开的报道：

　　一、武直十的研制成功使我国直升机设计的总体水平从70年代一越提升到90年代，直追世界最高水平；

　　二、武直十的总体水平在研在役的同类直升机中可以排世界前五位，在使用的同类直升机可以位列三甲；

　　三、武直十从总体方案到工程设计，再到成功首飞，只用了还不到国外同类直升机一半的时间â€¦â€¦等等，这还不是奇迹吗？

　　问：你刚才谈到武直十的总体水平在研在役的同类直升机中可以排世界前五位，在使用的同类直升机可以位列三甲，不知这些â€œ在研在役的同类直升机â€、â€œ在使用的同类直升机â€都是些何方神圣？

　　答：业内人士的评价是：武直十的整体作战性能，与欧洲的â€œ虎â€相比略低一些，而与美国的â€œ 眼镜蛇â€和意大利的â€œ猫鼬â€相当；与美国的AH－64â€œ阿帕奇â€和俄国的米â€”28 â€œ浩劫â€等重型攻击直升机相比攻击力要弱一些，但占有机动性好、维修方便、价格低廉、采购和使用费用合理等优势。而与各种轻型武装直升机相比，武直十简直可以傲视群雄了。

　　问：国外媒体说武直十已经量产装备部队了，你能否证实这一消息？

　　答：（笑）不好说。不过我们花费了那么人力物力辛辛苦苦研制出的先进武器不是作摆设的，就是要装备部队提高战斗力用的。日前已有公开报道说，继武直十于 2003年4月首飞成功以后，2004年在6条战线上同时作战、艰难前进、全线丰收。2004年12月17 日中航一集团总经理刘高倬考察了重点型号的研制情况，观看了试飞表演，对重点型号的研制给予了充分的肯定。 2004年12月15日陆航宋湘生部长到研究所视察并亲自登机驾驶，进行了高难度飞行，欣喜万分，连连称赞武直十性能很好。至此，我们可以说武直十量产的一些重大节点都已经得到突破。

　　问：有人说武直十的模样象â€œ虎â€，有人说武直十象â€œ茶隼â€。最近我又看到一篇来自美国的报道，说武直十抄袭了他的â€œ阿帕奇â€，是这样吗？

　　答：借鉴先进技术是情理之中的事情。美国人说我们抄袭了他的什么â€œ阿帕奇â€，简直是在胡说八道！也忒小瞧我们中国人的智慧了。这就是美国人一惯的思维方式：说你行你就行，不行也行；说你不行就不行，行也不行；行与不行，完全取决于他的政治需要。朱熔基在访美时说得好：凭我们中国人的智慧我们能够研制出我们想要研制的一切先进武器！我们不惜罕他的什么â€œ阿帕奇â€，我们有武直十足矣！

　　（由于时间关系，这篇访谈暂且写到这里，其他话题以后再谈）

WebMaster · 10-16-2005

Here is the translation from one of the online translation tools ( something better than nothing, right? )

Quote:

Question: About military is straight ten is noisy, unable to agree, I passes on on the Internet want to ask has not military is straight ten? Answer: The military straight ten existences are without a doubt. Just like in the fog regarding the military straight ten people looks the flower, this is not also strange, at least explains our security work does is quite successful, quite proficient. Question: Speaks of the security work, we may say is overcautious, has done is not some is excessive? Answer: 军事保密 the work does not have the minor matter, everything closes the national safety and danger, the war victory and defeat, how does all not excessively. This is not says things just to frighten people, we in this aspect lesson are extremely profound, other did not say, only said some year some month is because some person's divulge a secret, causes to to close the unification of the motherland the significant military action miscarriage. To 军事保密 work, not merely is the Chinese value, in the world any country all is so. The security consciousness should become people's one kind of basic quality. Question: The net friends frequently complain, the security guarantees guarantees, the Earth people all knew, the people did not know, the real situation was this? Answer: Fact by no means so. Actually our enemy to China's military secret the net friends cares about, is more warm-hearted than, they by any means possible, resort to all means, crazily to collect Chinese the military information. In fact, our enemy knows also and many are not necessarily less than the net friends, takes that " the Yuan " the level submarine says, or was the domestic one net friend sends that shipyard on the Internet roosts installs the picture, was old beautifully also hoodwinks in the drum, the old beautiful intelligence agency threw the clown for this. This example also shows security work must daily say, at times say, cannot have slightly the lacking in vigilance general idea. The security principle also is one principle which our this conversation follows, can say say, cannot say firmly does not say, but also asks you to forgive. Question: Armed helicopter in modern warfare status actually how? Answer: The armed helicopter is 勿庸 doubts in modern warfare status, has proven for the modern warfare practice. In brief, the armed helicopter function host if seizes " one tree is high " the air supremacy, exactly made up 固定翼 the airplane firepower blank; Is small the terrain limit and to the ground service dependence, the mobility and the hiding is good, the survivability and the striking power is strong, may all-weather for 己方 provide powerful 空中掩护 and the firepower support, to the enemy side land, the spatial goal implementation fatal attack, has " the flight tank " the fine reputation, is not the unwarranted reputation which the wave results in. Along with new material (function material, compound material and so on), new technology (for example micro electron technology, information technology and so on) the application and the new concept weapon (for example laser weapon, direction detection can weapon and so on) develops successfully, the armed helicopter will certainly even more powerful. Question: Also chats military is straight ten. Under what type background military is straight ten is develops in? Has what significance to our country? Answer: May. It is well known, originally forms in the Chinese army inside does not have the air unit, with did not say the armed helicopter. But this time, the world various military powers generally set up the army air unit, equipped includes the armed helicopter in inside each kind of advanced helicopter, the American representative world most high level. The 80's initial period, male second receive as agent for somebody else take Deng as the core party and the country lead the collective dignified announce to world: Chinese reduction army specified number of personnel 1000000! In order to follow close on the tidal current which the world military transforms, nearly was makes the group system army air arm's wise decision again while. The land navigation sets up the initial period, may say is starts from scratch, nearly received air force's complete helicopter, also the performance was backward. The Chinese land navigation urgent need each kind of advanced helicopter in particular armed helicopter, by rapidly enhances the Chinese army the war strength, enables it to contend with with the world military power. " The porpoise " the helicopter complete set technology introduction, enable the Chinese helicopter scientific researcher truly to get out of the Soviet pattern fetter, first time contacted the world advanced helicopter technology, and could spatially permit us slowly chews the digestion absorption, for afterwards independently ground sends has the independent intellectual property rights the advanced helicopter flattens the path, this school expense handed over is is worth. Above the century 90's last stages, in order to meet the Chinese characteristic new military transformation need, according to the modernization of national defense construction need, the aiming world military technology commanding point, the Central Party Committee, the State Council and the Central Military Committee took a long-range approach, to size up the situation, after passes through the thorough proof decisively makes one significant decision: Includes the country the military straight ten developments which the country " 95 plans " the key weapon attack item namely usually said " the key model ". With did not say other, this policy-making itself extremely has the strategic sense. Question: Invites you briefly chats military is straight ten to grind sends the process? Answer: Good. Military is straight ten plays an important role by the Chinese helicopter research center, and has home 40 extra is connected the courtyard unit participates the attack, finally determines is responsible by the prosperous river airplane industry group company always to install. This is one high risk, the high difficulty systems engineering, the fuselage structure and the essential system technology is new, the difficulty is high, in addition the army urgently needs, the development cycle is short, entire ground sends the process fills the challenge, but also gave China the helicopter scientific researcher brings the once in a thousand years historical opportunity. May say military is straight ten is the collective cooperation achievement, is the collective wisdom crystallization. Question: Why military is straight ten determines by prosperous flies the manufacture, but is not breathes out flies? Breathes out the technical strength which flies is not stronger? Answer: At that time breathed out the production task which flew is extremely arduous, the list straight nine series productions sufficed busily to live, already was the excess load revolution, had no time to take into consideration other. Prosperous flies the technical strength is not certainly weak, I am not toward prosperous fly on the face 贴金, is straight eight series, the straight 11 series successes grinds sends is the powerful proof. Question: As soon as mentions military is straight ten, people naturally can think helicopter expert Wu hopes clearly, what could you chat him in military was straight ten grind send in the process display affect? Answer: Wu Xi Ming is our country one young promising helicopter expert, incumbent Chinese helicopter design research institute chief designer, some key model routine vice- chief designer. He successively participated in the our country independent development includes straight eight, is straight nine, is straight 11 and so on in the inside nearly all helicopters model design work, accumulated the rich practical experience which the helicopter developed. Is precisely because Wu Xi Ming grinds in helicopter sends brilliant contribution which the domain makes, he successively by the determination is the country " 863 " the plan airplane foundation technology subject expert, the national defense science and technology industry committee has the prominent contribution expert, once several times rendered meritorious service in the model development, several times attained above the province department level the technical achievement prize, successively candidate national defense branch working committee " 511 talented people projects ", country " new century 1000000000 talented people projects "; The 15th session " the Chinese ten big outstanding youths ", Wu hopes Ming Ye qualifies. Wu Xi Ming was in 1998 starts to hold the post of " the key model " the first always duty, the period creatively assistance always carried on the military straight ten developments the technical coordination, the organization and the supervisory work, to military was straight ten develops successfully makes the prominent contribution. Question: The net friends all extremely want to know when military is straight ten is realizes flies, you can produce one authoritative view? Answer: Ha-ha! The authority does not discuss, but this also was not is secret, said also not hinered. After the scientific researcher and the worker skilled worker's endeavor, military was straight ten passes the ground union experiment in May, 2002, in April, 2003 successfully realized flies. That is one exciting day, that is the time which one is worth commemorating: The head flies that day, the space gets down the infant drizzle, resembles is the tears which the God sprinkles; Military is straight ten likes one vigorous male hawk pulls out, has one's wish makes the various acrobatic maneuver, demonstrates the outstanding performance, all got excited in the field personnel! Question: Military was straight ten altogether develops several prototypes? Answer: Flattery. Like military straight ten such models, prototype generally speaking many to two, ground union experiment like 静力试验 and so on must use, the aerial flight experiments like the performance confirmation also must use. Question: Are very many about the military straight ten views, I also very want to understand what level in military straight ten overall do locate? Answer: Grinds the personnel after all senate assiduously attacks, tenaciously strives for success, completed the work by two years which western developed country time-consuming 6 years and so on Europe and America only then could complete, created in the aviation history the many miracles, the Chinese helicopter development horizontal will prompt forward the entire 20 years, was rapidly enhances the army the operational capacity and the national defense weaponry modernization makes the remarkable contribution. Question: Talks about miracle which the military straight ten models triturating founds, you can enumerate 123? Answer: Under the view picks from the public report: One, military is straight ten develops successfully causes the overall which our country helicopter designs horizontal from 70's one more to promote to 90's, straight pursues the world most high level; Two, the military straight ten overall horizontal in grind may arrange world first five in the service similar helicopter, in the use similar helicopter may the position row 三甲; Three, military is straight ten from the overall plan to the engineering design, again arrives 功首 flies, only used also the overseas similar helicopter one half time... This also is not the miracle? Question: You a moment ago talked about the military straight ten overall horizontal in grind may arrange world first five in the service similar helicopter, in the use similar helicopter was allowed the position row 三甲, not to know these " were grinding in the service similar helicopter ", all is the what sides is sacred " in the use similar helicopter "? Answer: Industry inside public figure's appraisal is: The military straight ten overall operational performance, " the tiger " compare with Europe slightly lower some, but and USA " cobra " with Italy " cat weasel " quite; - 64 " Arab League 帕奇 " - 28 " the catastrophe " the equipollent attack helicopter compares the striking power with USA'S AH with Russia's rice wants weak somewhat, but holds the mobility is good, the service is convenient, the price is inexpensive, the purchase and the working costs is reasonable and so on the superiority. But compares with each kind of light armed helicopter, military was straight ten simply may show disdain for the independent warlords. Question: The overseas media said military was straight ten already the quantity produces the equipment army, whether or not can did you confirm this news? Answer: (Smiles) the flattery. But we spent that the manpower physical resource laboriously grind generating the advanced weapon are not do the ornaments, was must equip the army increases the battle efficiency uses. Other day had had the public report says, 继武 is straight ten flies in April, 2003 successfully after, in 2004 in 6 fronts simultaneously battles, difficult advance, entire line abundant harvest. On December 17th, 2004 China National Aviation Corp one group General Manager Liu Gao Zhuo inspected the key model development situation, watched the test flight performance, gave the full affirmation to the key model development. On December 15th, 2004 land navigation Minister Song Xiang Sheng to the research institute inspection and personally ascend machine driving, carried on the high difficulty flight, was joyful extremely, again and again commends the military straight ten performance were very good. To this, we may say the military straight ten quantities produce some significant pitch points all already obtained the breakthrough. Question: Some people said the military straight ten appearances elephant " the tiger ", some people said the military straight ten elephants " the tea 隼 ". Recently I again saw came to one from USA'S report, said military is straight ten plagiarizes him " Arab League 帕奇 ", was this? Answer: Profits from the advanced technology is inside the reason matter. The American said what we did plagiarize his " Arab League 帕奇 ", simply was is talking nonsense! Also too looked down on our Chinese the wisdom. This is the thinking mode which the American as soon as is used to: Said your line of your line, is unacceptable good also; Said you is unacceptable is unacceptable, the line also is unacceptable; The line with is unacceptable, completely is decided Yu Ta's political need. Zhu Rong Ji in visits when America said well: Depends on all advanced weapons which our Chinese's wisdom we can grind generates us wants to develop! What do we do not hesitate rarely his " Arab League 帕奇 ", we have military straight are full 矣! (As a result of time relations, this visits discusses for the time being writes here, other topics later again will discuss)

Thanks TP!

tphuang · 10-16-2005

np,
Just to give you guys an idea.
military straight ten - WZ-10
elephant " the tiger " - Eurocopter Tiger
Arab League 帕奇 " - Apache

The guy pretty much said that
in terms of overall operational performance, it's below Tiger, but at the same level as Cobra and Agusta
in terms of attacking ability, it's slightly lower than apache and mi-28

orko_8 · 10-17-2005

Gauntlet · 10-17-2005

Unless the WZ-10 are an exact copy of the Eurocopter, I would think these pics are PS'ed.

Red not Dead · 10-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1975

WZ10 flight characteristic and performance would be similiar to euro Tiger. But the onboard electronic sensors and avonics would be more similiar to the Italian Au129. Every often, the combat helio performance also depends on the reliablity of the engines, in order to maintain a high sorties rate in the battlefield. The Sensor suites and ECM suites are very critical subsystem that determine the survival of the combat helio in the field against enemy detection. It would be interesting to see if Chinese engineers would implement the active laser protection system onto the new WZ10 as well.

HUm china has already rejected the A 129 International project offered back in 1999 (it was way to expensive around 17 mill per chopper + 5 mill per upgrade, no Hot or milan offered!!!) With that money you buy 6 mi mil 35 with far better capabilities and a 8+2 layout.

The Italian Mangusta is a piece of crap technically speaking (so is the Eurocopter both are light assault, compared to heavy monsters like apache or kamov and both are same era projects).

MIGleader · 10-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauntlet

Unless the WZ-10 are an exact copy of the Eurocopter, I would think these pics are PS'ed.

um...they are eurocopters.
the second two pics dont even have chinese markings.

tphuang · 10-25-2005

中国的 Z-10 直升机的最新进展（中文原创）

有关中国 Z-10 战斗直升机的最新消息表明，该研制计划持续取得稳步进展，并且西方的供应商依旧在推动这种进展。昌河飞机工业公司现在已经交付了三架原型机，普遍认为其中的两架正在进行试飞。
据信，一架正在陕西西安阎良的中国试飞院试飞，而另一架则位于人民解放军空军设在江西景德镇的空军基地。
来自北京的消息称，Z-10 的试飞小组已经试飞了超过 400 个小时。貌似 Z-10 的第三架原型机的最新图片证实了简氏早些时候对这种直升机样式的猜测。
（译注：底下这三段都是针对这张照片所做的研判）
五叶旋翼系统清晰可见，它独特地以顺时针方向旋转。这支持了这样一种看法：中国借鉴了欧洲直升机公司的旋翼系统和阿古斯塔公司的变速传动系统中的设计思路。
新颖的剪刀式尾桨和常规的尾部布局可能是第一次被看到。这架 Z-10 飞行时，携带了新开发的机鼻下方机关炮，以及短翼式武器挂架。临时性的飞行测试设备和空气数据传感器被安装在机鼻上。
一个看起来是“防线缆保护系统”（译注：WIRE STRIKE PROTECTION SYSTEM 是个专有名词，其作用是当直升机在低空撞到高压电线之类的东西时，能将这些线缆及时割断，保障飞机的安全）的切割器的东东被安装在串列式座舱的上方。通体黑色的机身在尾梁处涂有人民解放军的军徽。
在中国，Z-10 通常被以一种更具中国特色的方式命名为武直10（武直，即武装直升机）。
迄今为止，提供给 Z-10 的西方设备都没有获得过任何的出口许可证，因为它们都是在民用的中国中型直升机计划（CMH）的掩盖下销售出去的。CMH 现在正在进行之中，Z-10 的一些设计和 CMH 是通用的，但是 Z-10 要比 CMH 先进的多。
就像苏霍伊的Su27与沈阳的歼-11一样，中国正在进行 Z-10 和 CMH 的国产化进程，我们将会看到，即使是一些关键性部件，如发动机，最终也会换上国产设备。
然而，用于 Z-10 的发动机--涡轴9的研发进度已经落后了计划好几年。Z-10 的发动机供应商--加拿大的普惠公司正在准备交付它的下一批 PT6-67C 涡轮轴发动机，有 10 台已经交付给了中国。

stonewind · 11-21-2005

While Changhe aircraft Industries have still not publicized the WZ-10 and its performance and capabilities, many assumptions lead it to be an inferior attack helicopter.

It is the first time china tries to create an indeginous attack helicopter but I'm sure it will not meet modern attack helicopter standards.

Here are a few specs of the WZ-10.the helicopter features a stepped tandem two-seat cockpit and narrow fuselage similar to Western designs. The helicopter has a five-blade main rotor and a four-blade tail rotor. The helicopter has a chin-mounted 30mm cannon and a pair of stub wings carrying ATGMs and/or other weapons.

Its best bet in battle is probably stealth, due to its smaller size compared to monsters like ka-50 black sharks and apache longbows which also be able to take alot of more flack. If this is the case its role against a modern army with strong stealth breaking capabilities are either minimal or non existant.

If I was a chinese general I would like to scrap this project and start to create a new attack helicopter which incorporates latest russian technologies (which I find superior to western ones in my opinion) and design to create a more potent helicopter.

For example.
KA-50 black shark. rate of climb of 10m/s at an altitude of 2,500m. The rotor blades are made from polymer materials. The coaxial-rotor configuration results in moments of inertia values relative to vertical and lateral axes being between 1.5 to 2 times less than the values found in single rotor helicopters with tailrotors. Absence of the tail rotor enables the helicopter to perform flat turns within the entire flight speed range. A maximum vertical g-load of 3.5 combined with low moments of inertia give the Ka-50 a high level of agility.

Extensive all-round armour installed in the cockpit protects the pilot against 12.7mm armour piercing bullets and 23mm projectile fragments. The rotor blades are rated to withstand several hits of ground-based automatic weapons.

The Ka-50 is the world's first operational helicopter with a rescue ejection system, which allows pilot to escape at all altitudes and speeds

MIGleader · 11-21-2005

a thread based completely on speculation and assumptions...not very ineresting.

the eurocopter and agusta-bell helped alot in this project. and its been going on for years. if china wanted advanced helicopter tech, they could have simply asked klimov too.

tphuang · 11-21-2005

WZ-10 is not the same type of helicopter as Ka-50 or apache. You could've posted this in the already existing WZ-10 thread. WZ-10 is more of a multirole copter like Tiger.

Longaxe · 11-22-2005

I think that the usefulness of all attack helicopters is more limited then people think. The attack helicopter exists primarily because of inter-service rivalry. If the US air force had let the army have fixed wing attack aircraft then there would be significantly fewer attack helicopters in the world. After Vietnam the rest of the world followed the US. Attack helicopters have never really done that great, they are only good at providing an escort for other copters, and destroying tanks from well behind enemy lines in terrain that they have the advantage in. While it is nice to the type of highly mobile fire power that an attack helicopter provides, they are expensive vulnerable and unsuitable for many jobs that a fixed wind aircraft could do. The WS-10 is probability good enough, attack helicopters and close air support aircraft are going to be replaced by air launched stand off weapons, and rocket artillery anyway. Long range rapid response PGM are the way of the future, one of the reasons the Comanche was canceled.

darth sidious · 11-22-2005

WHAT IS THIS!!!!

seting the target too high when your with an inexperince industry in asking for trouble. That is the mistake of the past many old chinese fighter design were advanced on paper but got canceled beacuse of diffculites with the engine or the avionic. maybe the americans can pull this off but the chinese is going for a stable path. ALSO HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE wz 10 is not fit for mordern combat so far we dont know jack about it

I editted out one part, please do no more Indian comparison when the thread has nothing to do with India.

adeptitus · 11-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longaxe

I think that the usefulness of all attack helicopters is more limited then people think. The attack helicopter exists primarily because of inter-service rivalry. If the US air force had let the army have fixed wing attack aircraft then there would be significantly fewer attack helicopters in the world.

There are some advantages to a helicopter, as very few aircraft are VSTOL. A strike aircraft require airbase with runway, shelter, etc. A helicopter can be deployed from just about anywhere.

The US Marine corps have Harriers and Hornets, but they still use the AH-1 Cobra that has been retired from US Army service. If you look at the service history of the AH-1, it streches from Vietnam war (~1968) all the way to present day Iraq.

The addition of WZ-10 would enhance PLA capabilities and add more options to military commanders. However from a cost-benefit point of view, I'd probably still lean toward armed UAV's for the future.

muyang523 · 11-24-2005

There is no stealth helicopters currently in service with any army. You can't measure WZ-10's capabilities for sure. I don't think it's capabilities would be to bad probrably as good as Tiger. I think tiger would greatly enhance the PLA 's capability they should just stick with WZ-10

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