SinoDefence Forum

flyzies

Check out this video I came across on the Su-35.
Its good how it breaks the plane down to parts to show you its gadgets...and the weapons load is very impressive.
I think its from an acutal Sukhoi promotion brochure...what you guys think?

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBbPU...elated&search=

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKG1j...elated&search=

nick

THese videos are realy amusing, but you can say that are far away from reality!! It is true that SU-35 is a fine aircraft with high manoeurability and agility. Someone could propose that the avionics of this aircraft could be the base for modernisation of chinese Su-27. However when you see this fine aircraft to shoot down airplanes like Eurofighter Typhoon, an aircraft optimized for this kind of threat, then you can only smile... It is amazing to see EF2000 to stand like sitting ducks waiting for the medium range missile to shoot them down!!! EF2000 is at least as agile and manoeurable as SU-35, even without TVC. This aircraft uses a capable radar which even without active array antennas can handle and lock many targets from distances at least equal to the expected of novel radars of SU-35. Morever EF2000 has an effective IRST and a sophisticated electronic warfare suite (ECM ESM ELINT MWS capabilities) that enable it to track lock and fire to other aircrafts from long distances, even when the radar is off. ECm capabilities of EF2000 probably enable it to effectively jam advanced phase radars like the new version of zaslon, MIG 31's radar
On the other hand capabilities of AIM-120C Amraaam missiles are at least equal or even superior to the capabilitise of the most advanced versions of R-77. It is worth to mention that not escape zones for both missiles (the distance where an aircract cannot escape from a fired missile, dispite manoevers) are less than 40 to 50 km. That is probably the reason for the development of meteor missile, witch is referred to have a non escape zone of 80 to 100 Km and represents an important tool for air superiority of EF 2000.
At the second video Su-35 are able to come close to a E-3 sentry AWACS and shoot it down with R-77. For somenone who Knows the least about tactics of AWACS this seems funny since these high value assets keep a distance of at least 200 Km from threats like SU-35. E-3 Sentry can detect and lock to target with a high electromagnetic signal like SU-35 from distances greater than 400 Km. It would be more realistic to speculate that SU-35s could shoot long range missiles like KS-172 novator (with a maximum range of 400 Km), and if they were lucky one of these missiles could shoot down an AWACS. The speculation that electronic warfare suite of SU-35 can jam effectively AWACS radar and encrypted data link of AWACS and EF2000 is interesting , but this seems highly unlikely. The only aircraft that could success to this procedure is probably F-22, and this seems possible under specific conditions.
The image where AMRAAM miss target when su-35 use flares as decoys is unrealistic since this missile does not use infra red seeker. It is more possible for SU-35 to shoot down AMRAAM with R-73M2, short range missiles that possess anti-missiles capabilities. Note that IRIS-T that arms EF2000 has also important anti-missiles capabilities. The use of jamming pods to jam amraam seekers or the use of conventional decoys, seems also ineffective, since these missiles possess home on jam capabilities and remarkable ECCM capabilities. Advanced tower decoys or microwaves or laser beams that could cause permanent damage to amraam seekers are probably more effective options, even futuristic.
In conclusion SU-35 is a fine plane but we should not exaggerate abouts its capabilities. China should focus on next generation planes like J-12 or J-13 and advanced UCAVs that could probably replace conventional aircrafts and change radically air tactics. Nations that will invest to these technologies will achieve air superiority and dominate to the future battlefield.

Unit88

what are models are the "su 35" shppting down. if i am mistaken, it seems as if it looks like the J-10 series?

nick

J-10 as an escort for E-3 Sentry or B-52 bombers, it is a bit difficult. However i would agree with the notice that these aircrafts share a strong similarity with earlier versions of EF2000 like EFA.

Colt .45

why would a chinese J-10 escort an american E-3 or B-52. oh and by the way this forum is about the SU-35.

Roger604

Those are Eurofighters. The J-10 is single engined. Yes, that dog fight was a bit one-sided

SteelBird

I think it is BVR engagement rather than dog fight. Yeah, it is one sided, the Typhoons almost have no reaction until the missiles come to close to them. However, just consider it as an advertisement, not any truth.

nick

This advertisment would be really interesting if they tried to show how a Su35 could track first lock on and shoot down a F22. Su 35 would need more than TVC and improved avionics to have a chance to face successfully a pair of F22, probably something like futuristic sensors or highly advanced ELINT systems that could scan broad areas of electromagnetic spectrum, trying to catch a signal, decode it and locate it with extreme accuracy (capabilities that only systems of passive detection like tamara or koltsuga are suggested to have, or the elint system of a F22!) Not to mention that Su35 would also have missiles with advanced seekers that could lock on the minimal signature of a F22 and keep the it locked despite the use of advanced radar or infrared decoys or the use of the superb electronic warfare system of a F22!

Roger604

The Su-35 shot down a Eurofighter by spraying it with cannon fire.... World War II style!

flyzies

LOL! That was interesting i thought...because today with all the advanced BVR air-to-air missiles, do you think the dogfights age has come to an end??
I mean, if you can destroy an enemy before you can see him, then there's no point getting up close on his 6-o'clock to spray him with bullets...

SteelBird

Well, though today there are so many advanced missiles, but cannons still have their roles and importance. This have been proven by the F-22 Raptor still carry a cannon. Back to the 70s, there were some design that had no cannon like the F-4 and the MiG-25, but later they were proved to be wrong in battles. Thus, their successors all have connons. So, a fighter carrying guns is not world war II style. When enemies come too close to you and when you run out of missile, the guns will be very important.

nick

Probably in the near feature when a steath aircraft will face another stealth aircraft detections ranges could be so short that will enhance the possibility of a dogfight. Then a gun and advanced short range missiles would be valuable to prevail and stay alive