Shenyang J-31 Fighter

Redundant post deleted.

Originally Posted by kyanges

That's a really good point. 3 years is definitely enough.

I'm not so sure that it means anything though since the J-31 is not only twin engined, but seems to have a different weapons bay layout too. The engineering to change the internal layout of a plane to that extent, wouldn't be worth the effort if all you're going for is something that looks the same as some other plane. You could just copy pictures of the F-35 if you wanted looks, no need for stolen data, lol.

Critics also said that the J-20 was based on stolen f-35 data. That only gives them 1 year. .

kyanges, I don't mean to pick fight with you. I just really don't get it. Three years is enough for what? For digesting all the details and putting togather a couple of models and then putty them through thousands of windtunnel tests? And also for God-knows-how-many-times of tests and fine-tuning on the VLO aspects? ...And if it's that as easy as copying and pasting (as the morons love to say), why the heck can't any others have done it the easy way as the Chinese do?

And I agree with for the rest of what you said.

You should know better than to write offensive comments aimed towards a certain group of people -TUP

Originally Posted by Player99

kyanges, I don't mean to pick fight with you. I just really don't get it. Three years is enough for what? For digesting all the details and putting togather a couple of models and then putty them through thousands of windtunnel tests? And also for God-knows-how-many-times of tests and fine-tuning on the VLO aspects? ...And if it's that as easy as copying and pasting (as the morons love to say), why the heck can't any others have done it the easy way as the Chinese do? No I'm not talking about big-mouthed, good-for-nothing Indians, I'm talking about the good old Europeans, Russians, etc.

I think kyanges is just trying to be sacrastic... LOL

Originally Posted by Yorkie

I sure as heck hope this bird isn't a copy of the F35. Otherwise It would be an over weight, under performed, over budget, delay after delay fiasco!
As far as the cyber espionage, i am not sure what the bitching is all about. Everyone is doing it and U.S. is definitely among the front runners: Pentagon has dedicated cyber warfare unit!

Totally agreed! And I won't bitch about Americans doing it. Instead, I'd respect them for their capability and think more of how we can emulate, and catch up with, them.

Now, I actually still like the J-20 much more than this J-31 because I belive the former is what China really needs and it's a far more thoughtful design and of far more refined workmanship. What I like about the J-31 is more about the fact that China has reached this critical level in designing, manufacturing, and project managing.

Originally Posted by Lion

I think kyanges is just trying to be sacrastic... LOL

Hehe, whether he was being sarcastic or not, I don't doubt his good intentions. I was just taking the opportunity to say what I had to say.

Redundant post deleted.

Sorry, TUP, for the offensive words toward certain group of people.

It was because I had just been pissed from reading bunch of very offensive and totally annoying posts from that certain group of people somewhere else. I know it's no excuse for me or anyone to do it here.

Well, while I was busy posting here, I missed a video on CD! When I got there (I was trying to find those new J-31 CGI's for mack8), it was already removed by the poster for fear of leaking too much. But story is still there:

×éÖ¯¹Û¿´ÁË£¬ ÷½Ó¥·É»úÏÂÏßÒÇʽ¼Ïñ-¿Õ¾ü°æ-³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳-×î¾ßÓ°ÏìÁ¦¾üÊÂÂÛ̳ -

According to the poster who watched the video, going by specs, the J-31 can beat the F-35... Let me just copy and paste it here:

整个时间不长，也就半个小时。很多很多人穿着整齐的蓝色工装一排排坐在前排领导的大沙发后面。李玉海上台宣 布仪式开始，然后播放了宣传片，里面讲了鹘鹰的工艺水准和各种先进的加工设备，也说了机翼确实是一体成型的 。感觉我们真不比洛马差什么了。重量控制的很好，结构重量占整机重量的比例与F22相当，一个 是29%多， 一个是30%左右。整个场面让我想起F35的下线仪式，正式开始后，林盟主上台详细介绍鹘鹰各性能和用途和 首飞时间，包括雷达性能和发动机什么的 ，内容我不确定是否可以说， 所以我就给删掉了。然后总指挥上台来宣布可以鹘鹰可以下线，伴随着类似震撼的音乐声，巨大的国旗缓缓向一侧 拉开，在一片魔幻般的烟雾中，黑色涂装的鹘鹰移动到展台中央。整个过程感觉像看大片。。整个场景的布置和灯 光水准不错的。仪式由李玉海主持。鹘鹰与我们很多网友之前的猜测还是有区别的，特别是作战半径和载弹量，这 点上鹘鹰比F35强。总的来说，如果林盟主和宣传片没说大话的话，鹘鹰完全能压制住F35的。，部分内容脑 补，如有雷同纯属做梦，

Originally Posted by Player99

kyanges, I don't mean to pick fight with you. I just really don't get it. Three years is enough for what? For digesting all the details and putting togather a couple of models and then putty them through thousands of windtunnel tests? And also for God-knows-how-many-times of tests and fine-tuning on the VLO aspects? ...And if it's that as easy as copying and pasting (as the morons love to say), why the heck can't any others have done it the easy way as the Chinese do? No I'm not talking about big-mouthed, good-for-nothing Indians, I'm talking about the good old Europeans, Russians, etc.

And I agree with for the rest of what you said.

Nah, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Sorry, I should have elaborated.

I think 3 years would be enough time to do everything you said. But only if the engineers wanted to make a so-so/garbage airplane. The thing is... Why would the Chinese want that? In short, they wouldn't.

I do believe the story about Chinese hackers infiltrating Lockheed Martin and its subcontractors. The Chinese are likely putting that data to work. However, who here or in the media can clearly say what was stolen and what it's being used for?

The possible scenarios are so open ended that claiming anything post-hack is a copy is definitely based on some other premise. And the only thing differentiating those premises is what one assumes about what/how much data was stolen and what/how much it's being used.

In the case of the J-31 being a F-35/22 lovechild based entirely on stolen data, it looks like that assumption is the Chinese stole everything and used everything, yet also majorly redesigned the internals in 3 years, and would therefore settle for some terrible chopped up thing. Which, just... No. Come on. .

Originally Posted by kyanges

Nah, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Sorry, I should have elaborated.

I think 3 years would be enough time to do everything you said. But only if the engineers wanted to make a so-so/garbage airplane. The thing is... Why would the Chinese want that? In short, they wouldn't.

I do believe the story about Chinese hackers infiltrating Lockheed Martin and its subcontractors. The Chinese are likely putting that data to work. However, who here or in the media can clearly say what was stolen and what it's being used for?

The possible scenarios are so open ended that claiming anything post-hack is a copy is definitely based on some other premise. And the only thing differentiating those premises is what one assumes about what/how much data was stolen and what/how much it's being used.

In the case of the J-31 being a F-35/22 lovechild based entirely on stolen data, it looks like that assumption is the Chinese stole everything and used everything, and would settle for something terrible. Which, just... No. Come on. .

Hehe, agreed... although my counter argument would be more on the American's ability to infiltrate CAC, SAC, and everything Chinese they wish to infiltrate, and I'm sure they have been doing it. And of course, they by all means could and must have put lots of garbage there just for the Chinese and anyone else to steal. That would be a lot more like what the sole super power would, could, and must have done to protect its most sought for secrets.

I don't doubt that China does the same to the US and to anyone else who's worth China's effort. For that, I'd only be proud! ...Mr. MiG-29 ignored my real point (that everyone who CAN do it does it) but kept quotig similar accusations as if the Chinese would give a damn about which politician bitches what.

Redundant post deleted.

Engine Woes Could Ground China's Stealth Armada | Danger Room | Wired.com

Let's concetrate on engines and ignore the fact China has at least two stealth fighter programs...

I'm reading a lot of reactions doing an internet search. I especially like the ones, yes there seems to be a common ignorance out there from self-proclaimed experts, asking if any of China's stealth fighters, including the J-20, have even flown, ergo, they must be just mock-ups to fool the West. I read another article that said China can't make a reliable domestic engine they can trust to put on a single-engine fighter, so that's why their stealth fighters have two engines. We see them on J-10s. Oh yeah let's leave out that fact so the conclusion made before writing looks true.

Originally Posted by AssassinsMace

Engine Woes Could Ground China's Stealth Armada | Danger Room | Wired.com

Let's concetrate on engines and ignore the fact China has at least two stealth fighter programs...

I'm reading a lot of reactions doing an internet search. I especially like the ones, yes there seems to be a common ignorance out there from self-proclaimed experts, asking if any of China's stealth fighters, including the J-20, have even flown, ergo, they must be just mock-ups to fool the West. I read another article that said China can't make a reliable domestic engine they can trust to put on a single-engine fighter, so that's why their stealth fighters have two engines. We see them on J-10s. Oh yeah let's leave out that fact so the conclusion made before writing looks true.

I personally rank David Axe between Strategypage and Pinkov when it comes to overall reliability when it comes to reporting.

Actually there are two issues in play here regarding engines. One is thrust vectoring and the other is super cruise. While it is nice to have both in an engine both are not needed at once. It seems that making an efficient engine that powers the J-20 to super cruise might be the first goal for Chinese engine manufactures.

Can anyone report any information that points to the first super cruising engine to power a Chinese fighter?