Shenyang J-31 Fighter

Originally Posted by i.e.

SK will have whatever it will have , Japan too, India/Russia PAK-FA. plus minor potentants like Australia, Indonesia, vietnam etc etc, and plenty of USAF/USN F-22 and F-35 around china , plus the next generation heavy carrier strike fighter which USN will want in return for support for USAF's new long range bomber. both of which has china inmind.
only a mental patient would think 3-4 regiments of J-20 backed up a masses of J-10B is sufficient, no offense. only a full 5th gen fleet in thousands would suffice, plus new long range strike force, plus space base weapons etc etc.

The long range stealth fighter is the new dreadnaught.

Easy there tiger, the reality is that lots of cash was flowing East during the Bush years, but the new reality is that there just isn't lots of cash flowing period, and that will affect us all, and water don't run uphill. I think the F-60 makes a lot of sense for the PLANAF, I realize the J-15 is just getting up to speed, but with the USN going full bore on the F-35 and the X47B, somebody has to want some parity, and the F-60 would at least open the door to the possibility.

Originally Posted by plawolf

I have always questioned the decision of the USAF to go full stealth at the expense of drastically cutting their F22 numbers, for the PLAAF to go down that route would be simply mindless imitation of the worst kind, and I do not think for a moment that the PLAAF will do that.

Could it be because a great deal of US air power going around the world is actually in the form of fighters on carriers, and they want a stealth one too. So they decided to make one that fits for all three variants to lower cost while also have something available for the carriers.

Originally Posted by paintgun

the single engined J-2X from CAC, student models pretty please
it's almost funny now that we can't dismiss anything so easily, like the UAV ahem... RC model from the same event

Just as I commented on China-defense.com, any leaks from the Chinese military forums should be taken seriouly first.

Well, experts on a China Central Television show call it J-21.

Here's the link: http://news.cntv.cn/world/20120726/118483.shtml

I just went through it. As usual, there's nothing new that we don't already know. Experts they may be, they won't tell anything before we already know it.

Originally Posted by Player99

Well, experts on a China Central Television show call it J-21.

Here's the link: [½ñÈÕ¹Ø×¢]ÃÀÏȽøÕ½»úÔú¶ÑÈÕ±¾ Öйú²»¾åÌôÐÆ(20120726)_ÐÂÎĄ̊_ÖйúÍøÂçµçÊǪ́

I just went through it. As usual, there's nothing new that we don't already know. Experts they may be, they won't tell anything before we already know it.

Well, at least he said first flight would be soon.

Originally Posted by supercat

Well, at least he said first flight would be soon.

But our rumor is more specific: The first flight will be in September.

Originally Posted by plawolf

Russia is not an enemy of China's and is not likely to become one anytime in the foreseeable future. The more PAKFAs they have, the better for China frankly.

India is becoming a serious player, but still lacks the wealth or technological base to become a true military threat to China.

With the possible exception of Japan, all the other neighboring countries you lists are medium rate powers at best and of no threat by themselves and will in all likelihood not get into the fight directly even if America and China came to blows, and frankly, even if they did stick their nose in, their forces would not make much of a difference.

You make it sound as if China is beset on all sides by powerful foes, but that is simply not close to being true. The only nation that can truly threaten China is America, and America doesn't really want a fight with China any more than China wants a fight with America.

While I do not believe the US itself would want to get in a firefight with China, nor vice versa, there is a real possibility that US nudges the ASEAN countries+Korea, Japan, India, and Australia together as a collective hedge against China and arm them adequately. The possibility may seem remote, but there is a distinct possibility that escalation in the South China Sea can create such a situation for China. At the end of the day job of the military is to build enough strength for the worst possible scenarios.

Now, I'm not saying that there will necessarily be conflict or collective security action against China, but right now China enjoys great leverage over any South China Sea scenario because of vastly superior military strength. In order to guarantee that it can continue to enjoy that strong bargaining position and prevent a major conflict from occurring due to winnable scenarios by opponents, it needs to sustain that superior military advantage. At the end of the day the PLA needs to build its strength faster than its opponents. That's at least my understanding of the potential need for more advanced air power (probably with long legs). They need to sustain the gap in strength.

Originally Posted by latenlazy

While I do not believe the US itself would want to get in a firefight with China, nor vice versa, there is a real possibility that US nudges the ASEAN countries+Korea, Japan, India, and Australia together as a collective hedge against China and arm them adequately. The possibility may seem remote, but there is a distinct possibility that escalation in the South China Sea can create such a situation for China. At the end of the day job of the military is to build enough strength for the worst possible scenarios.

Now, I'm not saying that there will necessarily be conflict or collective security action against China, but right now China enjoys great leverage over any South China Sea scenario because of vastly superior military strength. In order to guarantee that it can continue to enjoy that strong bargaining position and prevent a major conflict from occurring due to winnable scenarios by opponents, it needs to sustain that superior military advantage. At the end of the day the PLA needs to build its strength faster than its opponents. That's at least my understanding of the potential need for more advanced air power (probably with long legs). They need to sustain the gap in strength.

I don't understand why people keep thinking the entire East Asia will be against China. Afterall, these are China's neighbors. It would be insane for anyone to think that China would be completely annihilated. So even China loses in a future conflict, these small nations will still have to deal with China, a HUGE nation sitting next to their door step. It would be much easier for China to harass them than the US to protect them. The harassment, of course, would include everything from military, social, to economical. It would be a nightmare for everyone involved, including China. However, if China is bent to avenge its defeat and is willing to absorb financial losses, those small Asian nations will have some difficult days ahead of them. China can't do anything to the US, but can easily do whatever it wants to these small nations in Asia. We all know how difficult it would be to live with a neighbor who has a grudge with you, let alone a neighbor that is at least 10-20 times bigger than you...

I think what most of these nations are doing now is to get the most benefit possible from both the US and China by pitting one against the other. When both biggies want bigger influence in the area and want to ally with you, you can negotiate better deals and get bigger interests. At the end of the day, no one is actually looking to help another nation. what every nation is doing is to maximize their own interest.

Unless they are attacked and have no choice but to ally with someone, they will most likely stay out of the fight. And once the fight is over, they will be friends with both again. Think about what you would do if you saw a grizzly bear fighting a Siberian tiger while hiking in the mountains. Would you jump in and help one of them, or would you stay behind and watch? I know what I would do: stay far away and watch.

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again here. Asia does not hate China!!! There is NO hatred of any kind between China and Asia. SK, Japan and those ASEAN nations are NOT planning to destroy China whenever they get an opportunity. Yes, they may have some grudges and some disagreements, but nothing more than what neighboring countries anywhere on this planet are experiencing. If anything, there is probably more grudges between the UK and France than anything between China and the rest of Asia. DO NOT make it sound like the entire Asia will jump on China's throat whenever they see fit!!!

Originally Posted by vesicles

I don't understand why people keep thinking the entire East Asia will be against China. Afterall, these are China's neighbors. It would be insane for anyone to think that China would be completely annihilated. So even China loses in a future conflict, these small nations will still have to deal with China, a HUGE nation sitting next to their door step. It would be much easier for China to harass them than the US to protect them. The harassment, of course, would include everything from military, social, to economical. It would be a nightmare for everyone involved, including China. However, if China is bent to avenge its defeat and is willing to absorb financial losses, those small Asian nations will have some difficult days ahead of them. China can't do anything to the US, but can easily do whatever it wants to these small nations in Asia. We all know how difficult it would be to live with a neighbor who has a grudge with you, let alone a neighbor that is at least 10-20 times bigger than you...

I think what most of these nations are doing now is to get the most benefit possible from both the US and China by pitting one against the other. When both biggies want bigger influence in the area and want to ally with you, you can negotiate better deals and get bigger interests. At the end of the day, no one is actually looking to help another nation. what every nation is doing is to maximize their own interest.

Unless they are attacked and have no choice but to ally with someone, they will most likely stay out of the fight. And once the fight is over, they will be friends with both again. Think about what you would do if you saw a grizzly bear fighting a Siberian tiger while hiking in the mountains. Would you jump in and help one of them, or would you stay behind and watch? I know what I would do: stay far away and watch.

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again here. Asia does not hate China!!! There is NO hatred of any kind between China and Asia. SK, Japan and those ASEAN nations are NOT planning to destroy China whenever they get an opportunity. Yes, they may have some grudges and some disagreements, but nothing more than what neighboring countries anywhere on this planet are experiencing. If anything, there is probably more grudges between the UK and France than anything between China and the rest of Asia. DO NOT make it sound like the entire Asia will jump on China's throat whenever they see fit!!!

Careful, I didn't say that the entire East Asia would be against China. I'm saying that the PLA needs to hedge for that possibility. As of right now China doesn't have many actual "friends" in the region, as much as a bunch of frenemies. Its relationship with its neighboring countries still hasn't been clearly defined yet.

There's no guarantee of conflict, but it's the uncertainty of potential conflict that makes armament necessary. For China strengthening their military quicker than their neighbors is the best way to minimize that uncertainty of conflict by keeping absolute superiority.

Originally Posted by latenlazy

Careful, I didn't say that the entire East Asia would be against China. I'm saying that the PLA needs to hedge for that possibility. As of right now China doesn't have many actual "friends" in the region, as much as a bunch of frenemies. Its relationship with its neighboring countries still hasn't been clearly defined yet.

There's no guarantee of conflict, but it's the uncertainty of potential conflict that makes armament necessary. For China strengthening their military quicker than their neighbors is the best way to minimize that uncertainty of conflict by keeping absolute superiority.

Agreed. With strong military, you can even turn enemy into friends...

Originally Posted by vesicles

I don't understand why people keep thinking the entire East Asia will be against China. Afterall, these are China's neighbors. It would be insane for anyone to think that China would be completely annihilated. So even China loses in a future conflict, these small nations will still have to deal with China, a HUGE nation sitting next to their door step. It would be much easier for China to harass them than the US to protect them. The harassment, of course, would include everything from military, social, to economical. It would be a nightmare for everyone involved, including China. However, if China is bent to avenge its defeat and is willing to absorb financial losses, those small Asian nations will have some difficult days ahead of them. China can't do anything to the US, but can easily do whatever it wants to these small nations in Asia. We all know how difficult it would be to live with a neighbor who has a grudge with you, let alone a neighbor that is at least 10-20 times bigger than you...

I think what most of these nations are doing now is to get the most benefit possible from both the US and China by pitting one against the other. When both biggies want bigger influence in the area and want to ally with you, you can negotiate better deals and get bigger interests. At the end of the day, no one is actually looking to help another nation. what every nation is doing is to maximize their own interest.

Unless they are attacked and have no choice but to ally with someone, they will most likely stay out of the fight. And once the fight is over, they will be friends with both again. Think about what you would do if you saw a grizzly bear fighting a Siberian tiger while hiking in the mountains. Would you jump in and help one of them, or would you stay behind and watch? I know what I would do: stay far away and watch.

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again here. Asia does not hate China!!! There is NO hatred of any kind between China and Asia. SK, Japan and those ASEAN nations are NOT planning to destroy China whenever they get an opportunity. Yes, they may have some grudges and some disagreements, but nothing more than what neighboring countries anywhere on this planet are experiencing. If anything, there is probably more grudges between the UK and France than anything between China and the rest of Asia. DO NOT make it sound like the entire Asia will jump on China's throat whenever they see fit!!!

I think US has done a very good job at trashing China's image, instead of associated it with economic growth, Confucius or just Chinese culture things, they have associated China with, Tibet, human right problems etc... Unfortunately this is how China is being perceived by people that knows very little of China.

Also the fact that US has been the big dog for so long, it will take some time for them to get use to another power. I mean I remember when Qing dynasty was weak, many of the Chinese vessel stick by China until China can't protect them anymore, if they were using logic and reason, they would have abandon China long before that.

And this island dispute does not help China's image at all, China can't back down due to the the opinion from their own population, and if they use force they will suffer internationally. Things will get tough for China in the upcoming years. I think this is actually China's rite of passage anyway.

Originally Posted by jackliu

I think US has done a very good job at trashing China's image, instead of associated it with economic growth, Confucius or just Chinese culture things, they have associated China with, Tibet, human right problems etc... Unfortunately this is how China is being perceived by people that knows very little of China.

Also the fact that US has been the big dog for so long, it will take some time for them to get use to another power. I mean I remember when Qing dynasty was weak, many of the Chinese vessel stick by China until China can't protect them anymore, if they were using logic and reason, they would have abandon China long before that.

And this island dispute does not help China's image at all, China can't back down due to the the opinion from their own population, and if they use force they will suffer internationally. Things will get tough for China in the upcoming years. I think this is actually China's rite of passage anyway.

Come on back on the plantation here guys, looks like your pretty far out into left field, I'm thinkin this is still the F-60 thread, any way the F-60 does look to have some interesting potential in the future, but its sounds like money may be the issue, so player you've heard the first flight is to be in September? Its always easier to find resources with a flying prototype.

Don't worry about money, I fully believe this is a project with strong PLAAF backing, besides, XAC and SAC have been milking Boeing/Airbus for years now they are not exactly broke.

Originally Posted by vesicles

I don't understand why people keep thinking the entire East Asia will be against China. Afterall, these are China's neighbors. It would be insane for anyone to think that China would be completely annihilated. So even China loses in a future conflict, these small nations will still have to deal with China, a HUGE nation sitting next to their door step. It would be much easier for China to harass them than the US to protect them. The harassment, of course, would include everything from military, social, to economical. It would be a nightmare for everyone involved, including China. However, if China is bent to avenge its defeat and is willing to absorb financial losses, those small Asian nations will have some difficult days ahead of them. China can't do anything to the US, but can easily do whatever it wants to these small nations in Asia. We all know how difficult it would be to live with a neighbor who has a grudge with you, let alone a neighbor that is at least 10-20 times bigger than you...

I think what most of these nations are doing now is to get the most benefit possible from both the US and China by pitting one against the other. When both biggies want bigger influence in the area and want to ally with you, you can negotiate better deals and get bigger interests. At the end of the day, no one is actually looking to help another nation. what every nation is doing is to maximize their own interest.

Unless they are attacked and have no choice but to ally with someone, they will most likely stay out of the fight. And once the fight is over, they will be friends with both again. Think about what you would do if you saw a grizzly bear fighting a Siberian tiger while hiking in the mountains. Would you jump in and help one of them, or would you stay behind and watch? I know what I would do: stay far away and watch.

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again here. Asia does not hate China!!! There is NO hatred of any kind between China and Asia. SK, Japan and those ASEAN nations are NOT planning to destroy China whenever they get an opportunity. Yes, they may have some grudges and some disagreements, but nothing more than what neighboring countries anywhere on this planet are experiencing. If anything, there is probably more grudges between the UK and France than anything between China and the rest of Asia. DO NOT make it sound like the entire Asia will jump on China's throat whenever they see fit!!!

Umm... I can assure you there is severe friction between China and the rest of Asia. I won't go into too much detail, but I'll give you a few examples; Race riots in Indonesia against Chinese immigrants, war with Vietnam still impact heavily on each population's opinions of the other, distrust of Russia even though right now business means they cooperate, severe hatred of Japanese by Chinese (don't deny it, go on ChinaSmack to read some examples), disdain of Koreans by Chinese due to Koreans claiming Chinese achievements as their own (Korea went to the UN to 'validate' that sticky rice dumplings originated in Korea, also claims Mao Zedong was Korean), mutual racism between India and China; for the Indians, Chinese are aggressive, uncivilised and inferior; for the Chinese, Indians are stupid, dirty and smelly. As you can see, behind the courteous diplomacy of ASEAN and UN meetings, decades and centuries of history has built up a long list of hostile views between Asian countries; Korea, Japan and China is the East Asian hate triangle. As many grudges France and England have at each other, I doubt any one of them would send troops to the other and massacre civilians, rape and do live vivisection on medical subjects like Japan did to China and Korea. The situation in Asia is a precarious one, especially with a rising China.