Shenyang J-31 Fighter

Originally Posted by SteelBird

Well, it's just his suggestion, don't take it serious. Personally, I don't China would produce anything like the F-35B any time soon.

I mean, how did he come to that suggestion in the first place??

Even he admits there are two engines. And then he jumps to VSTOL. I know of no fighters in history that have more than one engine and are capable of VTOL. And does anyone really think the PLA currently remotely want anything as complex as a VSTOL stealth (or even non stealth) fighter in the first place? Honestly if I was him and saw the twin engines and the seemingly stealthy shape and discucsions on blogs and forums I'd immediately compare it to the other legions of twin engine F-35 class paper planes currently being studied by the japanese, koreans, indians, turks and what not. Makes me wonder if there's a failure of logic when he wrote it or is purposefully trying to be obtuse.

And again another western observer chooses to link J-20 with Mig-31. Le sigh.

From this...

http://defensetech.org/2012/06/22/a-...ghter-sigh-no/

To this...

http://defensetech.org/2012/06/25/ma...w-stealth-jet/

Maybe This Really Is China’s New Stealth Jet

Last week, we were inclined to say this plane was simply a Hondgu L-15 trainer jet being transported accross China via a flatebed truck. Some readers were skeptical, saying that it looked more like the stealth F-60 that China’s Shenyang aircraft-maker is rumored to be building. Well, new pics emerged over the weekend that show an aircraft that has us rethinking our initial call.

As you can see from these new pics, it appears that the mystery jet has air intakes that do indeed resemble those shown on a mock up of the F-60 (see below), it’s wing flaps also seem t resemble the F-60, and the cockpit, well, you be the judge.

Click through the jump to see an overhead view of the mystery jet that also resembles the F-60 as well as a picture of a model F-60 that strongly resembles a smaller version of an F-22 Raptor (with different air intakes and engine nozzles, etc.) I’m not even gonna say it.

If this veiled jet really is the F-60 (it could be another airplane or just a large mock up of the F-60), China might be on track to to reveal two new types of stealth fighters in less than two years.

weren't Bill Sweetman constantly trashing F-35 and suggest a mid sized, conventional layout F414EFE engined stealth fighte without the absurd VTOL requirements is the way to go???

Originally Posted by SteelBird

Well, it's just his suggestion, don't take it serious. Personally, I don't China would produce anything like the F-35B any time soon.

Well I think we should all hope that China would have a bit more foresight to not pursue the development of a money wasting, dead-end as diligently as Boeing has like the F-35B

BTW any more information on the location of 'mystery plane' yet? Has it already reached its destination?

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

Well I think we should all hope that China would have a bit more foresight to not pursue the development of a money wasting, dead-end as diligently as Boeing has like the F-35B

BTW any more information on the location of 'mystery plane' yet? Has it already reached its destination?

Psst, the F35 is Lockmart's baby, not Boeing's.

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

Well I think we should all hope that China would have a bit more foresight to not pursue the development of a money wasting, dead-end as diligently as Boeing has like the F-35B

BTW any more information on the location of 'mystery plane' yet? Has it already reached its destination?

It's not a dead-end yet, just think of it as three planes (versions A,B, and C) that looked the same with one price tag.

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

BTW any more information on the location of 'mystery plane' yet? Has it already reached its destination?

It reached Yanliang several days ago.

So can we assume this aircraft is just like F-35 without the vstol ability? A lightweight stealth 5th gen fighter at the price of J-10 for export and cheap mass production.

Originally Posted by stardave

So can we assume this aircraft is just like F-35 without the vstol ability? A lightweight stealth 5th gen fighter at the price of J-10 for export and cheap mass production.

How could that be? It has typical stealth featuers, which means its investment in R&D would be higher, if not a lot higher. It has two engines, which means what's too obvious to discuss. It then shoud have all the rest that the J-10 has. So why did you think it would sell at the same price as the J-10 does? It can't be "cheap", it can only be relatively inexpensive or, more precisely speaking, less expensive.

P.S. It's not a light weight aircraft (that would be stuff like LCA). It is a medium weight aircraft.

Originally Posted by Player99

How could that be? It has typical stealth featuers, which means its investment in R&D would be higher, if not a lot higher. It has two engines, which means what's too obvious to discuss. It then shoud have all the rest that the J-10 has. So why did you think it would sell at the same price as the J-10 does? It can't be "cheap", it can only be relatively inexpensive or, more precisely speaking, less expensive.

P.S. It's not a light weight aircraft (that would be stuff like LCA). It is a medium weight aircraft.

I agree, this aircraft most likely will be priced "less expensive" compare to J20, but by no means cheap. Although air frame are considered cheap in China, avionics and engine will consume the bulk of the price. Speaking of engines, that's probably the biggest uncertainty of this project. We know development for the 9500kg class medium thrust engine (WS13A variant) at least started in 2009, so it probably will be another couple of years before it's ready for prime time. The prototypes most likely will fly with RD93s.

Originally Posted by stardave

So can we assume this aircraft is just like F-35 without the vstol ability? A lightweight stealth 5th gen fighter at the price of J-10 for export and cheap mass production.

F-35A/C have no VSTOL capability...

There's no such thing as "lightweight" when comes to 5th gen fighter aircraft, due to the reliance on internal weapon bays in order to satisfy the requirement to lower the RCS; to satisfy the requirement for an effective payload, competing for internal space with fuel stores, avionics and engines, it'll have to be big like the T-50, F-22 and Project 718, or as small as the F-35 but at the cost of certain performance aspects.

In short, full-on 5th gen have to be big, the smaller you go the more things you got to forfeit.

That said, even this "Shenkhoi" design might be of F-35A in terms of size and weight class, sporting twin engines means its internal stores and/or fuel tanks will very likely be smaller as well, then you couple with the inferior performance of Chinese engines...it's still a medium weight design; but sure it'd be cheaper than F-35, as what make the F-35 now so expensive is because the massive delays the project encounters, along with the "economy of scale" effects when several principle buyers scaled back their purchase.

This is one of those aircraft that absolutely needs TVC in order to function. The F-60 looks as though it simply won't have the wing-loading to be a fully-competitive fighter, and unlike the F-35, it makes minimal compromises to rear and side stealth for aerodynamics.
With TVC, the aircraft will probably be able to outperform the F-35, without it, it will be outclassed.

Honestly You guys are funny ... and You all can make these conclusions from a few blurred images of a "thing" hidden under a tarpaulin ???

Deino

Originally Posted by Inst

This is one of those aircraft that absolutely needs TVC in order to function. The F-60 looks as though it simply won't have the wing-loading to be a fully-competitive fighter, and unlike the F-35, it makes minimal compromises to rear and side stealth for aerodynamics.
With TVC, the aircraft will probably be able to outperform the F-35, without it, it will be outclassed.

The only valid statement I see there is that its rear will not be stealthy. (from what pictures of the model and plane under tarpaulin gives the impression its side stealth will be compromised??)

I suppose one should also ask if F-35 has the wing loading to be a "full competitive" fighter, and if that's the end for judging a plane's kinematic potential