s400 sam

s400 is said to just be entering russia's forces in limited numbers. Like this year. No other country has it yet.

Current best of s300 series that china has is pmu2 version, for which it was said delivery would start in the second half of 2006. Perhaps a few batteries might be delivered so far, dunno if they're fully fielded yet.

With recent burst of technological advances in all areas (computing, radars, rocket propulsion, etc) it may be that china never gets s400 but instead just keeps on developin new variations of their own long range sams.

S-400 (SA-20 Triumf)


Country: Russia
Alternate Name: SA-20 Triumf
Basing: Land
Status: Operational, Exported


Details

The S-400, also known by its NATO designation, SA-20 Triumf, is an advanced Russian surface-to-air missile system. Once operational, it will be able to destroy aircraft, cruise missiles, and short- and medium-range ballistic missiles at ranges of up to 400 kilometers. The Russians eventually plan to phase out their existing S-200 (NATO: SA-5 Gammon) and S-300P (NATO: SA-10 Grumble) systems and replace them with S-400 complexes.(1)

By the late 1990s, it was widely acknowledged that Russia had fallen behind the U.S. in missile defense. Not wanting to let its technology and expertise go to waste, Moscow decided to build a new air-defense missile system, one that would surpass even the U.S. Patriot. According to Vladimir Simonov, General Director of the Russian Agency for Control Systems, the main focus was on getting Russia’s lagging programs “back on their feet.”(2) From the beginning, the project was shrouded in secrecy: neither its purpose, nor its parameters, nor even its name were disclosed to the public, although speculation was rampant.(3)

In January 1999, the Russian Air Force formally announced that it had developed a new air defense system known as the S-400.(4) Designed by the Russian Almaz Central Design Bureau, the S-400 was a thoroughly modernized version of the older S-300P system, versions of which dated back to the late 1960s.(5) The S-400 was reportedly capable of destroying a wide range of targets, including tactical and strategic aircraft, radar observation and targeting planes, cruise missiles, and short- and medium-range ballistic missiles.(6) According to Aleksandr Lemanskiy, Director-General of Almaz, the new system had “no parallels.”(7)

Most of the excitement surrounding the S-400 announcement centered on its new long-range missile, which the Fakel Machine Building Design Bureau was still in the final stages of developing. According to the Russians, the new missile featured an advanced seeker head capable of tracking targets well beyond the horizon line. It had a range of up to 400 kilometers, giving it approximately 2.5 times the range of the S-300P and twice the range of the U.S. Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) system, thus making it the superior missile. Once operational, the Russians claimed, the new S-400 missile would be able to home in on short- and medium-range ballistic missiles, as well as reconnaissance aircraft, stealth bombers, and other high-flying, fast-moving targets.(8)

In addition to the new long-range missile, the Russians revealed that the S-400 would be armed with lightweight 9M96 missiles to counter low-flying targets. Each 9M96 interceptor would have a range of approximately 120 kilometers and feature a gas-dynamic control system that would allow it to perform intricate low-altitude maneuvers. The Russians claimed that, in order to hasten the S-400’s deployment, the 9M96 interceptors would be made compatible with the existing S-300P launchers. Thus, a standard S-300P launcher originally designed to carry four 5V55 or 48N6 missiles would now be used to transport up to 16 9M96 missiles. In addition, the S-400 would use the S-300P control complex and multifunctional radar, thus allowing for a smooth, cost-efficient transition between the two systems.(9)

In February 1999, initial tests of the S-400 began at the Kapustin Yar site in Astrakhan.(10) Reports indicate that these tests were largely successful. In early 2001, Moscow announced that the S-400 would be deployed that year by the Russian military, and would also be made available for export on the world arms market.(11) Shortly thereafter, however, the S-400 program began to encounter a series of financial difficulties and technical problems that caused it to fall behind schedule, a trend that continued over the next two years.(12)

In mid-2003, after numerous delays and considerable bureaucratic infighting, it began to look as if the S-400 was nearing completion. That August, however, two high-ranking Russian military officials, Colonel General Alexei Moskovsky, Chief of the Armament Department of the Armed Forces, and General Anatoly Kvashnin, Chief of the General Staff, expressed their concerns that the S-400 was being tested using “obsolete” interceptors from the S-300P (such as the 48N6 missile). They concluded that the system was still not yet ready for production.(13) Moscow once again decided to delay the S-400’s scheduled deployment, this time until 2005 or 2006.(14)

In February 2004, the Russian Air Force announced that state tests of the S-400 had been completed and that the system was finally ready for production.(15) Two months later, Interfax-Military News Agency reported that an upgraded 48N6DM long-range interceptor had successfully destroyed a test ballistic missile. An Almaz-Antey official stated that “the system launched the upgraded 48N6DM long-range missile. The missile was guided to the target with precision, while the tasks set have been fulfilled.”(16) Despite these recent successes, it remains unclear when the S-400 will begin mass production.

Nevertheless, Moscow has been aggressively marketing the S-400 throughout Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. Many believe that China will be Russia’s main customer. Between 2003 and 2004, China spent approximately $500 million on future S-400 systems, which accounts for the 7 percent increase in China’s foreign weapons acquisitions during that period.(17) In addition to China, Russia has offered the S-400 to the United Arab Emirates, once in 2002 and again in 2004.(18) There is also speculation that Iran, a potential nuclear power, is currently seeking to acquire its own batch of S-400 missiles.(19)

It is evident that, once the S-400 completes its final tests and enters production, it will quickly become one of the most sought after missile defense systems in the world.

so what's up with this?

http://www.missilethreat.com/systems/s-400.html

Yes, what is up with that? It says what we knew. s400 was in development for some time now, it was delayed and now in 2006, finally, it starts deployment in russian forces. Yes, it has been offered to other countries but so far there has been no news of any country buying it. Which is not so strange considering the system wasnt even ready and even russian own army didn't have it. Now that russians have it, real sales might begin. Who will buy it? Who knows. Could be china, could be not.

it's from MissileThreat, not very reliable. They just take second handed info from sites like FAS/Global Security and, God forbid, StrategyPage.

I guess this piece of news would fit the best here, I'm surprised that it hasn't been posted yet and even more surprised that China is purchasing more pmu2 batteries

MOSCOW, Oct 13, 2006 (AFP) - Russia is to supply China with
eight hi-tech anti-aircraft systems under a recently concluded deal,
but Chinese interest in Russian defence equipment could be tailing
off, a leading business newspaper here said Friday.
China's latest purchase is eight S-300 PMU-2 Favorit air defence
systems, the Vedomosti business daily quoted a spokesman for
manufacturer Almaz-Antei, Yury Baikov, as saying.
The systems are a new export model with a range of up to 200
kilometres (125 miles) and the capability of intercepting ballistic
missiles, the newspaper said.
The value of the deal was estimated at one billion dollars by
military analyst Konstantin Makiyenko.
China has been a major client for Russian weaponry, accounting
for 60 percent of Russian arms exports last year, which in total
were worth 6.12 billion dollars, the paper said, citing state
statistics.
Deliveries last year included five hi-tech submarines and a
naval destroyer, while China agreed to buy 38 transport and
refuelling planes, as well as a series of jet engines.
But China may soon be fully stocked with Russian defence
equipment and the only way to sell more would be through joint
development of new technology, the paper said.
"Experts warn that the purchase of a huge new batches of arms
from Russian producers by the Chinese is becoming less and less
likely. Keeping China as a major partner of Russia in the military
technical cooperation can only be done with joint work on new kinds
of weapons," the paper said.
With the latest contract, China will have bought 28 of the
Russian anti-aircraft systems, almost enough to cover all its major
industrial centres, the paper said.
In the naval sphere, Russia is about to transfer to China a
fourth Project 956 destroyer, meaning that China's navy will have
more destroyers than Russia's, which has three, the paper said,
quoting military analyst Mikhail Barabanov.
China's airforce is similarly fully stocked with Russian fighter
jets, the paper said.
"Militarily China is progressing at a fast pace and soon will
clearly only be interested in new types of weapons.
"In this situation Russia needs to activate joint work with
China on such new systems as a fifth generation fighter jet.... But
to jointly create new systems of weapons with a country that is not
a military ally is not simple," the paper concluded.

It says china will have 28 batteries of new gen sam, obviously meaning s300 series. That is interesting as since last year news was that china, while having 12 batteries of various s300 systems, is purchasing 8 more of pmu2 which are to be delivered by the end of 2006. So now it is end of 2006 and those system may be just under delivery. It is possible the article is talking about that, and the 28 number is a mistake. Otherwise, those previous 8 have been delivered and there was a contract signed for 8 more. Journalist mistakes are not uncommon... i am actually inclined to think there are 20, not 28 sold so far. Would like further proof of course.

As for chinese s300, hq-9, was it? What the heck is going on with that? Word was they keep improving it and thats why its not entering service in large numbers... but it doesnt make sense to me to buy foreign equipment in that case either... it could very well be there are some problems with the development.

Originally Posted by Totoro

It says china will have 28 batteries of new gen sam, obviously meaning s300 series. That is interesting as since last year news was that china, while having 12 batteries of various s300 systems, is purchasing 8 more of pmu2 which are to be delivered by the end of 2006. So now it is end of 2006 and those system may be just under delivery. It is possible the article is talking about that, and the 28 number is a mistake. Otherwise, those previous 8 have been delivered and there was a contract signed for 8 more. Journalist mistakes are not uncommon... i am actually inclined to think there are 20, not 28 sold so far. Would like further proof of course.

As for chinese s300, hq-9, was it? What the heck is going on with that? Word was they keep improving it and thats why its not entering service in large numbers... but it doesnt make sense to me to buy foreign equipment in that case either... it could very well be there are some problems with the development.

The word I get is that they are entering service, but the problem is that they can't be produced fast enough. Anyhow, I'm going to look into the Chinese side and see what their comment on this is.

this is from kanwa
http://www.kanwa.com/mrdt/showpl.php?id=342

15﹑16﹑18）S300PMU2地對空導彈系統。平可夫

今天出版的最新一期加拿大汉和防务评论透露有中國消息來源聲稱俄羅斯將向中國交運第二批8個營的S300P MU2地對空導彈是不正確的。事實是計劃在2007年交運的S300PMU2的合同是在2004年簽署的。 就是這批合同的履行﹐也存在非常奇怪之處。因此﹐目前在中國還沒有S300PMU2地對空導彈正式服役。至 於外傳的第二批S300PMU2 8個營的進口談判已經進行了很久﹐沒有簽署合同。莫斯科希望在今年能夠簽署這一批導彈的合同。但是漢和防務 評論總編輯平可夫認為在第一批合同尚未完全履行的前提下﹐第二批合同是否會馬上簽署?



2004年8月﹐來自ALMAZ－ANTEY的權威消息來源聲稱8月8日中俄簽署了購買8個營的S300P MU2的消息。總共包括64部發射車﹐這批導彈準備從2005年開始交運中國﹐2007年8月交運完畢(J DW新闻)。2005年﹐完全相同的消息來源對漢和防務評論聲稱首批4個營的S300PMU2將從2005 年至2006年夏天交運中國。中方還希望在獲得8個營的S300PMU2的基礎上﹐再進口4個營的同型導彈 。



但是令人驚訝的是﹐ALMAZ－ANTEY部門主任級官員今年8月告訴漢和防務評論聲稱迄今為止S300P MU2系統使用的48N6E2地對空導彈還沒有交運中國﹗"我們計劃在2007年向中國交運這批導彈"他強 調。與此同時﹐ROSVOOROUZHENIE的消息來源告訴KDR說奇怪的是中國還沒有支付48N6E2 導彈的費用。



換句話說﹐迄今為止只購買了S300PMU2的指揮﹑管制與雷達系統﹐KDR之前也已經報導過中國在200 3年簽署契約購買了一套64N6E2跟蹤雷達和一套54K6E2作戰管理系統。



是否是ALMAZ－ANTEY的生產能力出現問題﹖就此﹐消息來源回答說ALMAZ－ANTEY目前進入了 歷史上最好的時期﹐S300系統的訂貨源源不斷。綜合上述動向判斷﹐48N6E2導彈迄今為止並未交運中國 的原因可能在於中方出現問題。



可能的情況如下﹕人員訓練是否全部完成? 迄今為止優秀的地對空導彈營都開始裝備S300PMU1並且少量開始裝備HQ9。中國官方的媒體曾經批判性 地報導過中國軍隊使用"某新型地對空導彈"的情況。它極有可能是第二批進口的TorM1地對空導彈。報導聲 稱"某新型導彈裝備部隊之後﹐因為人員訓練尚未完成﹐因此新裝備不得不擱置倉庫很久"。另外一種可能的原因 是當初就暫時沒有購買整套S300PMU2的計劃﹐只對S300PMU2的指揮﹑管制﹑雷達系統有興趣﹐用 它們來與已經得到的S300PMU1加以整合。如果對俄方聲稱只單獨需要S300PMU2的指揮管制系統﹐ 可能出現商業談判困難﹐因此才簽署了整套購買S300PMU2的協議。再有的可能性是中國空軍或者產軍複合 體利益集團之間出現新的問題。這一狀況經常出現。而且難以意料。尤其是HQ9出現之後。其改良型研製一旦取 得進展﹐S300PMU1/2在中國的地位就可能被削弱。來自中國空軍的消息近期對KDR聲稱中國空軍目前所擁有的新型防空導彈數量遠 遠不夠﹐就連樣板部隊地對空導彈第2營都依然裝備HQ2。

a short version, basically kanwa is now saying that China never obtained S-300 pmu2 launcher/missiles from the Russians. It just got a 64N6E2 acquisition radar and a 54K6E2 battle management center. I'm not sure what credit I can give to this new S-300 pmu2 purchase article now. Maybe this is the missiles for the previously obtained radar/battle management center or may it's a complete new order?

That was an old article. The said missiles were delivered and the new battery was stationed near Shanghai for its defense. It could be that the newer article might be a new order.