SinoDefence Forum

crobato

The airframe "size" of the JF-17 is not as limited as you think. The plane is actually slightly longer than an F-16. Weight is no longer related to size. The F-35 is only a foot longer than the JF-17 and weighs six tons more.

Space is not the issue, as the engine power. A much more powerful plane can carry more weight and suffers less performance penalties. FC-1's relatively low power means just that. Look at the Gripen, the next version would make it weigh over 7,000kg empty, and so needed an upgrade of the engine to the GE F414 (used by the Super Hornet).

Fortunately Klimov/MiG does have an upgrade plan for the RD-33, which can extend all the way up to 10,000kg. Then of course, there is a Chinese alternative as well. Avionics are also getting lighter as time goes by due to electronics miniturization.

You already said correctly that the JF-17 is running counter to PLAAF future trends, which is very much like with the rest of the world---growing bigger and heavier. I think that's the greatest barrier for the JF-17's acceptance into the PLAAF. But this trend is going to run into a brickwall sooner or later. Technology and size cannot replace numbers and availability fully. 100 big fighters are not going to do the job of three hundred small fighters without pilots being exhausted and planes physically worn out to the ground. Fewer planes means less planes to occupy the battlespace and less planes to be available for missions of opportunity. When attrited, having smaller numbers mean a greater impact to your force. Numbers will always count no matter what.

In my view, a plane like the JF-17 can be served greatly with networking, like the Gripen. Numbers, especially when organized properly, can be very effective. This is not to say bigger planes don't have their place, they do. Large jets like Flankers can serve as eyes and sensors for smaller planes, and these smaller planes act as tactical backups to the bigger jets.

Its not necessary that you have to make a small jet do everything, and so have everything crammed into a little airframe. Small jets do better when it comes to specialization, while with bigger jets, you're looking more into generalization or jack of all trades. With specialization, you only put what is necessary for the design role into the aircraft. Having said that, the FC-1 is still clearly intended as multirole, but its not like a wide area defense interceptor and air superiority platform or major strike bomber. The fact its replacing A-5 units in the PAF, indicates a tactical support role. The fact that the PLAAF has other designs that can undertake other sordid tasks more suited for heavy fighters, puts less weight on its small fighter requirements.

Scratch

A general question about chinese aircraft. I put it here because we here had the argument how to escape missiles, where my question is related to.

How do chinese designed aircraft dispens their decoys?

I think US made ones just "drop" them. Not sure about european ones honestly. In contrast Fulcrums and Flankers shoot them somewhat forward.
Back in my conscription time I was told that modern AAMs are able to ID decoys as such if they suddenly get very slow after being released.
I was told that because of that russian fighters have an advantage here in fooling enemy missiles because for at least a very short time the decoys (at least the flares) move forward at a high speed.
That's of course only one factor among several, but in this particular area, the russian thought further ... ?

So, how do the chinese aircraft do that? And are there vids of them releasing flares.
And if someone knows vids of ECDs releasing flares, I'd be interested as well.

crobato

The problem when you release flares in front of your aircraft is that missiles will tend to lead target them, and the missile will still end up right in front of you. If you have to shoot the flare ahead, you would have to make a hard break regardless.

I have not seen a Chinese aircraft drop flares, other than fireworks in air shows, so I can't say much whether they would follow the Western or the Russian practice.

tphuang

I'm not sure exactly. Just remember reading an article on JF-17 avionics that mentionned that they use extremely accurate processing of information from RWR and MAWs to find out where the missiles are coming from and release flare at the right time (and maybe location?)