New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread!!!

[asif iqbal]

FC-1 will never match J-10 in aero dogfight with equal capable pilots. J-10 is designed by Chinese in mind to beat F-16 operated by the ROCAF easily during its development year.

It is one of the major reason why PLAAF and PLANAF prefer J-10 over FC-1. F-16/FC-1 is a very agile and good plane. But fourth gen aerodynamic fighter like gripen, rafale ,typhoon and J-10 are a step up over it. Their high speed turning is one big points over F-16/FC-1.

really? have u seen the turn rate of the JF17? in close quaters JF17 can match F16 if not exceed it

F-16 Vs JF-17 Turn-Rate Comparison. - YouTube

there are videos of JF17 pulling vertical climbs, only reason it lags behind is because of engine power not to do with fighter capability

[Dizasta1]

really? have u seen the turn rate of the JF17? in close quaters JF17 can match F16 if not exceed it

F-16 Vs JF-17 Turn-Rate Comparison. - YouTube

Hey Asif, leave the guy be. There is no arguing that JF-17/FC-1 is an awesome fighter which would give Pakistan the best capabilities in Air Combat.

But, lemme ask you, what's the deal with PDF, its been off-line for the past three days now!! When is it due to be back on again?

And on a separate note, is there any news on the 2nd (50) batch deliveries? I haven't heard anything so far, or the fact that what changes would there be in the second batch.

[asif iqbal]

Hey Asif, leave the guy be. There is no arguing that JF-17/FC-1 is an awesome fighter which would give Pakistan the best capabilities in Air Combat.

But, lemme ask you, what's the deal with PDF, its been off-line for the past three days now!! When is it due to be back on again?

And on a separate note, is there any news on the 2nd (50) batch deliveries? I haven't heard anything so far, or the fact that what changes would there be in the second batch.

yeah PDF is down, u know what Webby is like, it says 24-36 hours could be more like 24-36 days!!

as far as i know 2nd batch of JF17 is now on the production line, there are 5 confirmed upgrades with the highlights being datalink, air-to-air refueling, IRST and improved ECM

other opitions like AESA, composites, WS13 and conformal fuel tanks are either rumours or planned for Block 3

[vesicles]

really? have u seen the turn rate of the JF17? in close quaters JF17 can match F16 if not exceed it

F-16 Vs JF-17 Turn-Rate Comparison. - YouTube

there are videos of JF17 pulling vertical climbs, only reason it lags behind is because of engine power not to do with fighter capability

but why did the Chinese pick J-10 over JF-17? they designed both of them and had all the opportunity to evaluate both... At least they could have both of them in the PLAAF. Instead, they only wanted J-10. Also, why is China not selling J-10 to PAF if J-10 and JF-17 are comparable?

[Dizasta1]

yeah PDF is down, u know what Webby is like, it says 24-36 hours could be more like 24-36 days!!

as far as i know 2nd batch of JF17 is now on the production line, there are 5 confirmed upgrades with the highlights being datalink, air-to-air refueling, IRST and improved ECM

other opitions like AESA, composites, WS13 and conformal fuel tanks are either rumours or planned for Block 3

Yeah brother, I know ........ but given the amount of time its taken, perhaps Webby is introducing some major upgrades to PDF.

Anyways, I am really interested in what type of IFR Probe is planned for the Thunders. I hope they're retractable, embedded within the air-frame's outline, like in the Gripen.

Also, you've mentioned that there are 5 confirmed upgrades. You've mentioned 4, what's the 5th?

Lastly, when does Pakistan Air Force expect to field SD-10 BVR missiles, aboard the JF-17s?

---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------

but why did the Chinese pick J-10 over JF-17? they designed both of them and had all the opportunity to evaluate both... At least they could have both of them in the PLAAF. Instead, they only wanted J-10. Also, why is China not selling J-10 to PAF if J-10 and JF-17 are comparable?

Vesicles, PLAAF chose J-10s because it has a heavier payload, more weapon's stations, greater endurance and longer range. That doesn't necessarily mean that the JF-17s don't have a good payload capacity, stations, endurance or range. It only means that China's requirement is greater, as China is area wise, a much larger country than Pakistan.

Same reason why PLAAF has invested a lot of its time and resources in the development of J-11s.

Also, China is selling Pakistan the J-10s. It's only that Pakistan Air Force has certain requirements which warrants certain changes on the J-10s. Pakistan and China are close allies, and China has been of tremendous help in support and supplies of military hardware, financial aid and economic cooperation. We Pakistanis have always appreciated and honored our great ally for this.

My greater concern is that Pakistan needs to focus on stabilizing itself internally. Stability in the social and political landscape of Pakistan would not only allow growth in Pakistan's economy, but also be beneficial to China. Every great Super Power requires strong allies and Pakistan ought to be a strong ally to China.

[victtodd]

well said

[Munir]

Put it simple... Pakistan has zero depth. Zero response time. It needs to be there quick and get the job done. It is defensive and has a fight over its own territory with decent AWACS cover and even SAM cover. Compare as the simple lightweight Lavi of Israel. China is huge. It needs huge fighters... Does it make plane a better then plane b? Surely J10 can be handy in PAF hands and FC1 can be handy in PLAAF hands. But tailor made is something little different. If the PLAAF had J6, J7, A5 then why would they have serious issues over Fc1? Because it still needs Chinese engine. Till that is not settles this discussion is waste of time.

[i.e.]

co-fund a single engine stealth fighter in the mold of a J-10 would not be a bad idea for Pakistan.

[delft]

co-fund a single engine stealth fighter in the mold of a J-10 would not be a bad idea for Pakistan.

Not "in the mold of". A stealth aircraft cannot be derived from a not-stealth aircraft. The requirements are too different.

[i.e.]

Not "in the mold of". A stealth aircraft cannot be derived from a not-stealth aircraft. The requirements are too different.

class of.

a bigger J-10 with stealth shaping and WS-15 engine.

[tphuang]

China will not get JF-17 until it has domestic engine option and CAC finds a way of lowering the cost even more (to let's say $10 to 12 million). That's that. For PLAAF, there is no need to make JF-17 that much more capable, because it already has J-10 that is efficiently mass produced. PLAAF is cheap and has limited budget. It cannot afford to purchase in really large numbers until the first point happens. There is no need to argue how good JF-17 is vs J-10.

[Munir]

China will not get JF-17 until it has domestic engine option and CAC finds a way of lowering the cost even more (to let's say $10 to 12 million). That's that. For PLAAF, there is no need to make JF-17 that much more capable, because it already has J-10 that is efficiently mass produced. PLAAF is cheap and has limited budget. It cannot afford to purchase in really large numbers until the first point happens. There is no need to argue how good JF-17 is vs J-10.

I fully agree with this. No engine domestic no chance to be bought by PLAAF. About making more capable... I agree that there is a better option but what is better capable? As long as it is between 4-4.5 western gen there is no that much difference either.

[Hendrik_2000]

I fully agree with this. No engine domestic no chance to be bought by PLAAF. About making more capable... I agree that there is a better option but what is better capable? As long as it is between 4-4.5 western gen there is no that much difference either.

well Munir you might like this latest article from R Fisher. He said we will hear more about WS 13 in 2012 based on his conversation with Chengdu
A Strategic Challenge In China’s New Tactical Fighter Exports
Richard D. Fisher, Jr., Senior Fellow, IASC
February 7, 2012
http://www.strategycenter.net/docLib...her_020712.pdf

There are suggestions that Guizhou may be developing an improved 10-ton thrust version of its engine for the FC-1. It is not clear that an axisymmetric thrust vectoring system would be consistent with the FC-1’s design priority to limit cost, but it remains an option that would improve maneuverability and take-off performance. The advent of India’s Tejas Mk 2 could prompt Pakistan to consider a better engine for future Blocks of the JF-17. A Pakistani briefer suggested that a twin-seat version of the FC-1/JF-17 could emerge by 2013-2014.
12 This would allow FC-1 to have a conversion trainer that could also be included in FC-1 units to reduce the usage of single seat fighters, extending their service lives. In 2004 a Pakistani official suggested that a twin-seat FC-1 could also be developed into a dedicated attack version.

[Munir]

Hendrik, we had many statements and rumors. As long as I do not see once flying outside China I guess we have nothing.

[challenge]

2月14日，第三届新加坡航展开幕。在今年的新加坡航展上，中国航空工业技术进出口总公司展出携 枭龙，L-15，翼龙无人机等军机模型参展。虽然今年枭龙战机真机没有赴新加坡航展现场，但枭龙还是引起了各国航空界 尤其是第三世界国家的注意。

　　短期内不会有大幅改进型枭龙战机出现

　　自枭龙战机去年在迪拜航展亮相后，枭龙战机何时推出改型一直是大家关注的焦点之一。但本次参加本次航展 的中航技工作人员对此表示，枭龙战机短期内不会有大幅改进型亮相。不过，工作人员还称，枭龙战机一直在改造 ，改造的项目主要是电子系统等细节部分。工作人员介绍称，自枭龙战机首次亮相以来，进行的细节改进已高达数 百项。枭龙战机定位于第三世界国家，以高性价比取胜，不会像西方战机那样追求最先进的概念和最先进的技术。 因为多数潜在购买用户受经济条件和维护水平所限，难以养护那种“追求时髦”的先进战机。

　　俄制战机不会影响枭龙战机销售

　　当在中航技展台提及俄制战机是否会影响枭龙战机的海外市场时，展方人员表示，枭龙战机的目标是替代第三 世界国家现役的米格-21，幻影-3等第二代单发轻型战机。目前俄罗斯军工出口的多为苏霍伊公司的双发重型战斗机，与枭龙战机的定位完全不同 。另外，枭龙战机在出口时，附带技术转让也是枭龙战机现在的重要卖点之一。

　　枭龙战斗机电子设备相当先进

　　目前，世界各国均对现役第三代战斗机进行电子升级。在今年的新加坡航展上美国波音，雷声等公司纷纷提出 第三代战机电子设备升级方案。对此，前方报道人员就枭龙战机未来的电子设备升级问题询问了中航技工作人员。 他表示，枭龙战斗机的电子设备相当先进，与解放军目前装备的战斗机相比，绝对是属于最先进的之一。对于第三 世界的中低端客户，完全可以说是“功能完善到只有他们想不到的，没有他们提出却满足不了的”。面对各国空军 换装有源相控阵雷达的趋势，展方表示，第三世界国家可能短期内不需要，但一旦有提出需求，以目前现有机体就 可以换装并且不需要进行大改进。另外，今后使用国产定位系统的雷石－6等精确制导武器也可以搭载在枭龙战机 上。（刘煊）
report from singapore air show.
Chinese company in short term has no plan for up grade FC-1 aircraft, afterall, they said, the FC-1 was design to be cheap.but in the long run,if the customer seeking for more capable version, they will consider it.the first area for up grade was her electronic, hint ,[possbility of upgrade it with AESA. radar.
right now, FC-1 already programmed to carry LS-6 glide bomb.