New J-10 thread II

[challenge]

according to kanwa and sukhoi sales agent, MIG-35 offer superior avionic,center pieces are AESA,new EW,advance data link.(J-10 still using mechanical radar)
like F-35, MiG-35 has 6 IRST to provide 360 deg. detection.
to date, there's no information coming out about the Chinese AESA program.

[crobato]

Originally Posted by challenge

according to kanwa and sukhoi sales agent, MIG-35 offer superior avionic,center pieces are AESA,new EW,advance data link.(J-10 still using mechanical radar)
like F-35, MiG-35 has 6 IRST to provide 360 deg. detection.
to date, there's no information coming out about the Chinese AESA program.

It actually has one IRST, one on top and another on the bottom and about four MAWS.

The J-10 appears to have two to four MAWS, two are quite visible in the port holes near the parachute brake.

[challenge]

Originally Posted by crobato

It actually has one IRST, one on top and another on the bottom and about four MAWS.

The J-10 appears to have two to four MAWS, two are quite visible in the port holes near the parachute brake.

according to back issue of DIIC,it stated that MIG-35 has 6 IRST,rather than MAW.
the J-10 that appear in flight demonstration may belong to early production.I assume improve version may already exist.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by challenge

according to back issue of DIIC,it stated that MIG-35 has 6 IRST,rather than MAW.
the J-10 that appear in flight demonstration may belong to early production.I assume improve version may already exist.

there is no way mig-35 has 6 IRST, it has no need for that and can't afford it either. And generally, you only need 3 or 4 to achieve the 360 degree coverage.

[Hendrik_2000]

Look at this incredible WOW straight up from the ground like rocket what a power. According to the test pilot The J10 in production is now equipped with Taihang and Naval version will come soon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeuON...rd/forum.shtml

[Londo Molari]

wow... thrust-to-weight ratio anyone? We already know how much that engine outputs... which means the J-10's own weight is lighter than expected.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by Londo Molari

wow... thrust-to-weight ratio anyone? We already know how much that engine outputs... which means the J-10's own weight is lighter than expected.

that's what I've been telling people all along, a lot of people didn't listen, but you know, the real numbers are not going to be known until when it gets exported.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by Hendrik_2000

Look at this incredible WOW straight up from the ground like rocket what a power. According to the test pilot The J10 in production is now equipped with Taihang and Naval version will come soon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeuON...rd/forum.shtml

I think you are talking about this article
试飞员称歼10已装上国产发动机进行试飞
中国人民解放军空军全面参展成为本届航展的一大亮点，首次亮相航展的歼-10、新飞豹等先进战机更是耀眼明星。昨天中午，刚刚进行完飞行表演的部分空军飞行员在航展现场和观众零距 离会面。在回答观众的问题时，歼-10首飞试飞员雷强大校表示，歼-10也能表演苏27的招牌动作“眼镜蛇”，而且表演得更漂亮！歼-10已经用上了国产的发动机。

　　多名特级飞行员亮相

　　参加见面会有歼-10首飞试飞员、特级飞行员雷强大校，昨日刚刚驾驶歼-10飞行返回地面的特级飞行员严峰大校。另外，还有轰油六特级飞行员卢拥军、歼8D飞行员贾斌、歼轰七特级 飞行员丁敏、直九三级飞行员韩晋豫。

　　能与这些空军飞行员面对面，众多观众抓住机会轮翻抛出自己关心的问题，当雷强等人回答每一个问题时都引 起现场观众阵阵欢呼。第一个观众问的是大家都非常关心的歼-10发动机问题。雷强告诉大家，昨日观众们看到的航展歼-10飞机装配的是俄罗斯RS31F发动机，而我们自己的发动机现在正在试飞，已经装在歼-10飞机上了。从总的数据讲，我们太行发动机比俄罗斯的还好，推力比它的大了700公斤。

　　歼-10充分展示我国的自主产权

　　有观众问道，驾驶歼-10的感觉是什么样的，严峰表示：“作为歼-10飞行员，不仅是我们飞行员队伍的骄傲，更是我们民族航空工业的骄傲，是我们中国人的骄傲。”

　　随后，一位观众大声问道：歼-10有没有舰载机？严峰说：“相信不远的将来，大家很快就会看到我们的舰载机。”

　　“在刚才做的动作中，技术难度最大、最能表现歼-10先进性能的是哪个呢？”

　　“我们在编这套动作的时候已经考虑到要在国人面前充分展示歼-10战斗机的各项机动性能。刚才大家看到了，几个动作表现了歼-10短距离起降能力、大角度上升能力、水平机动能力、不对称机动能力、垂直机动能力以及宽广的飞行速度包线 。”

　　许多观众都把歼-10与苏27对比。苏27的招牌表演动作是“眼镜蛇”，歼-10也能表演，而且比它有更好的操控性。雷强介绍说：“它(指苏27)做 “眼镜蛇”动作完全是靠速度来控制它的角度，速度小了，角度就小，但歼-10飞机可以由飞行员控制角度，我想让它多大，就可以飞到多大。”
Basically, he said that they will develop naval version of it, which I don't think will happen. He says that it is capable of doing the cobra. And that it is already using WS-10A

[kickars]

I don't think it says there'll be a naval version of J-10.

随后，一位观众大声问道：歼-10有没有舰载机？严峰说：“相信不远的将来，大家很快就会看到我们的舰载机。” This sentence means when an audience asked whether there'll be a naval version of J-10, the test pilot answered that people will soon see our own (which mean Chinese made) naval jet in the very near future.

So we still don't really know if it's the J-11 or the J-10 they will use on their first ever CV.

What's more the test pilot also said J-10 can do 'cobra' much easier than Su-27/J-11. It can be controlled according to pilot's need during the whole maneuver. Unlike Su-27 has to use its power and speed to finish a perfect 'cobra'.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by kickars

I don't think it says there'll be a naval version of J-10.

随后，一位观众大声问道：歼-10有没有舰载机？严峰说：“相信不远的将来，大家很快就会看到我们的舰载机。” This sentence means when an audience asked whether there'll be a naval version of J-10, the test pilot answered that people will soon see our own (which mean Chinese made) naval jet in the very near future.

So we still don't really know if it's the J-11 or the J-10 they will use on their first ever CV.

What's more the test pilot also said J-10 can do 'cobra' much easier than Su-27/J-11. It can be controlled according to pilot's need during the whole maneuver. Unlike Su-27 has to use its power and speed to finish a perfect 'cobra'.

you are right, I totally misread that part. but yeah, a lot of good stuff coming out on J-10 and I don't think they've shown all the moves it can do either. That's the scary part.

[Infra_Man99]

I previously posted data on the J-10's alleged features, but after watching that video of the J-10 taking off and IMMEDIATELY going for a climb, I think my data is wrong, but then I am no aerospace engineer, just a fan of military stuff. That fast climbing J-10 may show that the J-10 has a weight-to-thrust ratio that is greater than previously expected, or the J-10 in that video carried minimal internal fuel to perform that routine, or the J-10 in the video was an early J-10 with minimal weight, or the J-10 in the video was a modified version with decreased weight and increased engine power.

This is my best guess of the J-10's features (don't slam me if I seem way off):

Empty Weight: 14,000-lb to 18,000-lb
(The J-10 may be using lots of advanced materials from advanced metal alloys and nonmetallic composites to decrease its radar signature, heat signature, and weight plus increase its durability.)

Wing Area: 350 sq-ft to 500 sq-ft

Maximum Military Thrust (Russian Engine vs Chinese Engine): 17,860-lb vs 16,500-lb
Maximum Afterburner Thrust (RE vs CE): 27,557-lb vs 24,000 lb
Engine's Highest Thrust-to-Weight Ratio (RE vs CE): 7.5:1 vs 9:1


TPHuang, you seem to be the most knowledgeable here about the J-10. Can you give us what you think are the J-10's features? How would you compare the J-10's WS10A engine to the Super Hornet's General Electric F414?


If I can't use blue font, then I offer precocious apologies to the moderators.

[kursed]

This one gives a much better look at the routine performed in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-54unEKAZM

[Infra_Man99]

On Kursed's supplied video, I didn't even see J-10 use its afterburner throughout the impressive takeoff and climb (Am I right about this?)! The J-10 literally went from accelerating on the tarmac to a very brief 45-degree climb and then very quickly into a 75-degree to 90-degree climb. This looks like the climb was mostly the engine power and only small amounts of wing lift.

If the J-10 has a max mil thrust of 16,500 lb to no more than 25,000 lb, then the J-10 plus small amounts of fuel (just enough internal fuel for the air show) must weight below 16,500 lb to 25,000 lb. I know this range is huge, but no one seems to be able to give a good estimate here. I wonder if the J-10 in the video is the standard J-10 or some J-10 with decreased weight.

[crobato]

Its the production J-10. Adding that IFR adds to the weight a little but as the production model this is exactly the way the plane as they are with operational units. In fact, this plane is from an operational unit, the 44th Division, no. 55 and no. 65 respectively.

The plane should have minimal fuel, but enough fuel to do 10 minutes of serious aerobatics, so that's not exactly what you would running near empty either.

As far as it looks it does not appear to be using an afterburner as we have seen the afterburners go off on Su-27s taking off and they produce a purple plume from the back.

Once the angle goes high, the wings don't produce the lift and the plane has to climb by engine power alone.

Like with Feng, I have been arguing far too long that the J-10 is lighter than what it should and better power to weight ratio than the ridiculous 9750kg empty weight Hui Tong placed on his otherwise excellent web site.

[Infra_Man99]

Vertical Take Offs

J-10 (seems to use only military thrust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeuON3eGA0o

Eurofighter Typhoon (uses afterburner thrust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryo7s...eature=related

F-16 (uses afterburner thrust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAsJ...eature=related

F-15 (uses afterburner thrust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez9YWQ1Zg3U

F-22 (I can't tell if it used military thrust or afterburner thrust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6dz...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvF8sf5i7j0