SinoDefence Forum

70092

Note during the cold war, despite of the fact percentage-wise the US have spent alot of more money on Defence, their economy is among the fastest-growing industrilized economy since 1970s and a main industrial relovation begun in the US (computer/information techs) were started by the funds from military sectors.

Actually after the cold war, the US's economy have not grow any faster despite of a considerabl lower percentage of military/space-related spending, and due to the reducation of military spending, now smart guys begin to spend their times in business school and waste their talents on how to lure someone else's wealth in the name of finanical "innovations" instead of create new techs to create wealth that could eventually benefit the mankinds.

Economy is complicate, arm/space race and economy are definitely not zero-sum. Only government funded projects like military project or space project can really plan ahead of time and can actually trade short-term small gains for long-term great gains, only these projects can give you tens of billions of money and allow you to not have to develop something that can actually bring any real benefit for maybe even the next 10-20 years whilist private company wont do that since first they dont get that much money, secondly they are not even sure if they will be still around 10 years from now.

pla101prc

its only arms race in the negative sense that we usually define it when there is excessive spending competition. the US isnt spending like 10% of their GDP on its armed forces and China is spending way below the international average. and modern military have developed in such a way that you cant rely on the performance of one outstanding weapons sytem to win, therefore China's success in a single program will not trigger an arms race.

rhino123

Yes all of what all of you said is valid, however isn't it better to keep things down, continue to develope whatever we want quietly. Just downplay the part where China is building her arms up. Although many would argue that the adversaries of China will still upgrade their own arms, deploy missile defence umbrella and stuff like that, but why give them the excuse of doing it now because of a potentially strong China next to them beefing up militarily.

Like what Deng Xiao Ping was saying in the eighties and I think is still valid now, 不要强出头. Therefore there really is no need to draw attention on ourselves. China is strong now, but still not the strongest.

70092

Public demonstration of J-XX once it have conducted maiden flight successfully is hardly "强出头", most of the west countries show off their military projects even at concept stage, so China just try to be more open about their military projects anyway.

rhino123

Yes public demonstration is okay once J-XX made their maiden flight. But we do not need to speak of the existence of such program and its progress to the public now. It would only play on the china threat theory to the west or far east.

Skywatcher

The PAKFA itself could also provide a rationale for continued Raptor production.

70092

It seems that you are very naive, the US show off their weapons projects since concept stage, does anyone in the world consider its a threat to the world?

When you are weak you are a joke, when you are stronger but not strong enough you are a threat, when you are strong enough you are the protector, welcome to real world.

rhino123

That is what I have emphasis in my first post. China is strong... not not the strongest. And so why do we want to keep telling people that we are modernising and play to their China Threat game. When everyone can just use China as a reason for upgrading their arms.

Until China is strong enough then we will play a new game all together, right now, it is good to downplay your military and the existence of your new program and emphasis more on economic and stuff like that. But I never say stop all military program, carry on with R&D, but there is no need to start shooting mouth off like that to the world on the progress.

maxx

To some countries, yes. Particular to those that have contrasting world views.

I'm sure it's more complicated than that. Difference in political ideology, values, beliefs etc are some factors.

getready

the ship has long sailed my friend.

a few yrs ago, i might have agreed with you but i'm not naive now. back then china was describing its progress as china rising. thats sounds pretty harmless but people still got spooked .... then china changed it to peaceful development but still they were suspicious.

i have come to realize no matter wut china does, her adversaries are still going to cling on to the china threat thinking. better for china to be open and transparent about it now rather than jp and us catching china red handed later on and saying aha, see they have been secretive on their military stuff.

plawolf

There is an old saying in China, 'the weak flaunt their weakness while the strong show their strength'.

In the past, even if China was 100% transparent about its abilities and aims, it would still not have served any deterrence because China was that far behind. Instead, it was better to hide what capacities China had so that adversaries would underestimate China and get a nasty surprise in war.

But that only works during a war. What China is trying to do now is to prevent wars from happening at all, by showing its strength. Its like what the Americans have been doing all the time by saying, 'well I'm this powerful, you best try and solve disputes through negotiation since you haven't got a chance if it comes to a shooting war.'

druid84

Just want to remind everyone this is the New generation fighter thread, not the anti-american/ western thread, please try to stay on track gents.

kroko

Wow. Just mention USA in this forum, and it starts an USA vs China topic.

alopes

I think there is a difference between being strong and being aggressive.
China has never pledge to use its new power to be aggressive against other countries.

China officials predicts they will have an operational 5th generation fighter in eight years at the best.
While the F-35 is already in initial test production.

All USA´s friend countries will have access to f-35 before China have their own stealth fighther in big numbers.

China has a strong economic and military development. This can´t be denied and it is a logic consequence of their development.

rhino123

I don't know how this thing has suddenly become an USA vs China kind of thing. It should not be done and not in this forum... and please don't quote my post, I am not the one starting this thing.

What I am saying is just that China should pipe thing down, I am not saying that I am right on this, but that was my initial intention, I might be wrong as was pointed out by other posters. So lets just leave it there.