SinoDefence Forum

Chinese Defense & Military Community

New Generation Fighter

This is a discussion on New Generation Fighter within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Note during the cold war, despite of the fact percentage-wise the US have spent alot of more money on Defence, ...

Go Back   China Defence Today Forum > China Defense & Military > Air Force

China Defence Today Forum


Air Force Forum for Chinese Air Force, military aviation news, PLAAF weapons technology and warfare. Discuss air force aircraft systems, organization and PLAAF equipment such as fighter aircraft, bombers, missiles, AWACS, transport aircraft and including future requirements.

DefenceTalk Military Pictures






Reply

 

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-22-2009   #376
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
70092 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Note during the cold war, despite of the fact percentage-wise the US have spent alot of more money on Defence, their economy is among the fastest-growing industrilized economy since 1970s and a main industrial relovation begun in the US (computer/information techs) were started by the funds from military sectors.

Actually after the cold war, the US's economy have not grow any faster despite of a considerabl lower percentage of military/space-related spending, and due to the reducation of military spending, now smart guys begin to spend their times in business school and waste their talents on how to lure someone else's wealth in the name of finanical "innovations" instead of create new techs to create wealth that could eventually benefit the mankinds.

Economy is complicate, arm/space race and economy are definitely not zero-sum. Only government funded projects like military project or space project can really plan ahead of time and can actually trade short-term small gains for long-term great gains, only these projects can give you tens of billions of money and allow you to not have to develop something that can actually bring any real benefit for maybe even the next 10-20 years whilist private company wont do that since first they dont get that much money, secondly they are not even sure if they will be still around 10 years from now.

Last edited by 70092; 12-22-2009 at 05:09 PM.
70092 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009   #377
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,169
pla101prc is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

its only arms race in the negative sense that we usually define it when there is excessive spending competition. the US isnt spending like 10% of their GDP on its armed forces and China is spending way below the international average. and modern military have developed in such a way that you cant rely on the performance of one outstanding weapons sytem to win, therefore China's success in a single program will not trigger an arms race.
pla101prc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009   #378
Pencil Pusher
 
rhino123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere out there.
Posts: 932
rhino123 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Yes all of what all of you said is valid, however isn't it better to keep things down, continue to develope whatever we want quietly. Just downplay the part where China is building her arms up. Although many would argue that the adversaries of China will still upgrade their own arms, deploy missile defence umbrella and stuff like that, but why give them the excuse of doing it now because of a potentially strong China next to them beefing up militarily.

Like what Deng Xiao Ping was saying in the eighties and I think is still valid now, 不要强出头. Therefore there really is no need to draw attention on ourselves. China is strong now, but still not the strongest.
rhino123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009   #379
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
70092 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
Yes all of what all of you said is valid, however isn't it better to keep things down, continue to develope whatever we want quietly. Just downplay the part where China is building her arms up. Although many would argue that the adversaries of China will still upgrade their own arms, deploy missile defence umbrella and stuff like that, but why give them the excuse of doing it now because of a potentially strong China next to them beefing up militarily.

Like what Deng Xiao Ping was saying in the eighties and I think is still valid now, 不要强出头. Therefore there really is no need to draw attention on ourselves. China is strong now, but still not the strongest.
Public demonstration of J-XX once it have conducted maiden flight successfully is hardly "强出头", most of the west countries show off their military projects even at concept stage, so China just try to be more open about their military projects anyway.
70092 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009   #380
Pencil Pusher
 
rhino123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere out there.
Posts: 932
rhino123 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70092 View Post
Public demonstration of J-XX once it have conducted maiden flight successfully is hardly "强出头", most of the west countries show off their military projects even at concept stage, so China just try to be more open about their military projects anyway.
Yes public demonstration is okay once J-XX made their maiden flight. But we do not need to speak of the existence of such program and its progress to the public now. It would only play on the china threat theory to the west or far east.
rhino123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009   #381
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 358
Skywatcher is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

The PAKFA itself could also provide a rationale for continued Raptor production.
Skywatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009   #382
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
70092 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
Yes public demonstration is okay once J-XX made their maiden flight. But we do not need to speak of the existence of such program and its progress to the public now. It would only play on the china threat theory to the west or far east.
It seems that you are very naive, the US show off their weapons projects since concept stage, does anyone in the world consider its a threat to the world?

When you are weak you are a joke, when you are stronger but not strong enough you are a threat, when you are strong enough you are the protector, welcome to real world.
70092 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009   #383
Pencil Pusher
 
rhino123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere out there.
Posts: 932
rhino123 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70092 View Post
It seems that you are very naive.

When you are weak you are a joke, when you are stronger but not strong enough you are a threat, when you are strong enough you are the protector, welcome to real world.
That is what I have emphasis in my first post. China is strong... not not the strongest. And so why do we want to keep telling people that we are modernising and play to their China Threat game. When everyone can just use China as a reason for upgrading their arms.

Until China is strong enough then we will play a new game all together, right now, it is good to downplay your military and the existence of your new program and emphasis more on economic and stuff like that. But I never say stop all military program, carry on with R&D, but there is no need to start shooting mouth off like that to the world on the progress.
rhino123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009   #384
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 37
maxx is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70092 View Post
It seems that you are very naive, the US show off their weapons projects since concept stage, does anyone in the world consider its a threat to the world?
To some countries, yes. Particular to those that have contrasting world views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70092 View Post
When you are weak you are a joke, when you are stronger but not strong enough you are a threat, when you are strong enough you are the protector, welcome to real world.
I'm sure it's more complicated than that. Difference in political ideology, values, beliefs etc are some factors.
maxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009   #385
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia/Singapore
Posts: 64
getready is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
Yes all of what all of you said is valid, however isn't it better to keep things down, continue to develope whatever we want quietly. Just downplay the part where China is building her arms up. Although many would argue that the adversaries of China will still upgrade their own arms, deploy missile defence umbrella and stuff like that, but why give them the excuse of doing it now because of a potentially strong China next to them beefing up militarily.

Like what Deng Xiao Ping was saying in the eighties and I think is still valid now, 不要强出头. Therefore there really is no need to draw attention on ourselves. China is strong now, but still not the strongest.
the ship has long sailed my friend.

a few yrs ago, i might have agreed with you but i'm not naive now. back then china was describing its progress as china rising. thats sounds pretty harmless but people still got spooked .... then china changed it to peaceful development but still they were suspicious.

i have come to realize no matter wut china does, her adversaries are still going to cling on to the china threat thinking. better for china to be open and transparent about it now rather than jp and us catching china red handed later on and saying aha, see they have been secretive on their military stuff.
getready is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009   #386
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 297
plawolf is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

There is an old saying in China, 'the weak flaunt their weakness while the strong show their strength'.

In the past, even if China was 100% transparent about its abilities and aims, it would still not have served any deterrence because China was that far behind. Instead, it was better to hide what capacities China had so that adversaries would underestimate China and get a nasty surprise in war.

But that only works during a war. What China is trying to do now is to prevent wars from happening at all, by showing its strength. Its like what the Americans have been doing all the time by saying, 'well I'm this powerful, you best try and solve disputes through negotiation since you haven't got a chance if it comes to a shooting war.'
plawolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009   #387
New Member
 
druid84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Taipei, Taiwan, Toronto, Canada
Posts: 47
druid84 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Just want to remind everyone this is the New generation fighter thread, not the anti-american/ western thread, please try to stay on track gents.
druid84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009   #388
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 176
kroko is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by druid84 View Post
Just want to remind everyone this is the New generation fighter thread, not the anti-american/ western thread, please try to stay on track gents.
Wow. Just mention USA in this forum, and it starts an USA vs China topic.
kroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009   #389
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brasil
Posts: 100
alopes is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
Yes all of what all of you said is valid, however isn't it better to keep things down, continue to develope whatever we want quietly. Just downplay the part where China is building her arms up. Although many would argue that the adversaries of China will still upgrade their own arms, deploy missile defence umbrella and stuff like that, but why give them the excuse of doing it now because of a potentially strong China next to them beefing up militarily.

Like what Deng Xiao Ping was saying in the eighties and I think is still valid now, 不要强出头. Therefore there really is no need to draw attention on ourselves. China is strong now, but still not the strongest.
I think there is a difference between being strong and being aggressive.
China has never pledge to use its new power to be aggressive against other countries.

China officials predicts they will have an operational 5th generation fighter in eight years at the best.
While the F-35 is already in initial test production.

All USAīs friend countries will have access to f-35 before China have their own stealth fighther in big numbers.

China has a strong economic and military development. This canīt be denied and it is a logic consequence of their development.

Last edited by alopes; 12-25-2009 at 09:45 AM.
alopes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2009   #390
Pencil Pusher
 
rhino123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere out there.
Posts: 932
rhino123 is on a distinguished road
Re: New Generation Fighter

I don't know how this thing has suddenly become an USA vs China kind of thing. It should not be done and not in this forum... and please don't quote my post, I am not the one starting this thing.

What I am saying is just that China should pipe thing down, I am not saying that I am right on this, but that was my initial intention, I might be wrong as was pointed out by other posters. So lets just leave it there.
rhino123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chinese AAM tphuang Air Force 76 05-01-2010 01:13 AM
The Richard Fisher Strikes Back! AssassinsMace Strategic Defense 20 08-03-2008 11:19 PM
U.S.built Iranian aircraft DPRKPTboat World Armed Forces 14 03-13-2006 05:28 PM
russia and india discuss the possipility of making 5th generation fighter together Gollevainen World Armed Forces 22 12-11-2005 12:55 AM
New Chinese "F-X" single-engine fighter? AssassinsMace Air Force 4 11-21-2005 05:37 PM


vBulletin Tweet Poster

  0 
   

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
SinoDefenceForum.com

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13