SinoDefence Forum

Bltizo

Hmm the article says
"However, as Andrei Chang, a Chinese military analyst with the Kanwa Information Centre in Toronto emphasised, it still is puzzling for what reason “the plethora of UAV models on display at Zhuhai do not go into production.” China is having difficulty mastering the technical complexity of operating UAVs in real time, he recently told Defence News. Chang suggests that many of the companies and institutions do not have an actual prototype and are simply looking for a foreign investor for their concept."

Is that true? I haven't heard of foreign investors for concepts, because you would think the PLA would be interested enough to fork out for it. Or is this typical Pinkov BS?

maozedong

its hard to say, some model display in Zuhai air show will become true, but some are still concept.

Bltizo

Well Xianglong, CH-3, Yilong so far have all come to fruitation with pictures of prototypes at least, and with CH-3 apparently getting foreign orders.
I'm not too sure about Anjian, because I don't know if China would be able to make a high performance UCAV (looks to be air to air as well..). There's been more press about the Dark sword model than the comparably less radical Warrior Eagle ucav model...
At any rate it's not that puzzling why the various UAV designs at Zhuhai aren't in production yet, it's because they're obviously still concepts or in the development stage, same as the various US stealthy UCAV designs.

I can understand the companies wanting PLA investment but definitely not foreign...

twodollarss

Most of China's weapons came from Russia so how did China come up with the UAV designs and technology to build one?

mods note >> In the future twodollarss find the subject that you have a question about and post that question in that thread. Or use the FAQ thread. Do not start a thread with a question.

Military FAQ thread

bd popeye super moderator

Ambivalent

The basic technologies, engine and airframe design as well as the automated controls are universally available. Also, any good target drone is as sophisticated. China has had Firebee drones that crashed in China and makes copies of them called the WZ-5. The Firebee is actually a pretty sophisticated target drone. Don't let it's age and appearance fool you.
What is not universal are the sensors, data links and weapons or employment tactics, the quality of which can't be judged well from external appearances.

Bltizo

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This website has a slide show of a more recent model of the Anjian (Darksword - awesome name!) at some chinese expo.

I think the concept has been in enough air shows and expo's to show it's not some random dream yet. The model even has PLAAF roundels/markings.

This more recent model seems a bit different to previous ones in that it's a bit more bulkier, and it's air intake seems to be a DSI? The engine nozzle also looks more stealthy than before.

I for one am hoping this darksword is the real thing.

I don't know how to download the pictures so I can't post them up straight, you'll have to go on the site itself.

AssassinsMace

When the Anjian model was displayed for the first time, there were some speculation from the West that the Anjian was a ramjet UCAV. So does DSI negate it being a ramjet?

Bltizo

I'm not sure exactly if DSI negates putting a potential ramjet on a plane...

But the model's "DSI" could just be a photo lighting issue or something like that... Or just a random bump.

Or they might be wanting to just put a heavy thrust engine like the WS-15 when it comes out or something which can let the plane supercruise? (cause the planes configuration definitely hints at really high speed moving)
I personally would definitely like to see it being ramjet powered rather than turbofan.

Yeah it was this website that said it might be ramjet propelled and implied possible hypersonic-ness-ness.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...me-raises.html

Ambivalent

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Use of ramjet propulsion is not likely. It would need some way to accelerate to at leat Mach 2 before the ramjet will light off, implying a booster rocket or auxilary propulsion of some sort until the ramjet is self sustaining. From then until fuel burn out it would not be able to slow down below Mach 2 point something. Ramjets are not highly throttleable either, and have an extremely narrow speed range in which they operate. They are not flexible engines. Ramjets make sense for missiles compared to solid fuel rockets because they can achieve greater ranges at higher speeds than many solid fuel rockets. For a combat jet, or it's substitute a UCAV, they do not offer any flexibility. You also cannot slow down enough to land with a ramjet. This thing, if indeed ramjet powered, would have to glide on recovery, or use a parachute and be recovered from the water or land like a target drone, grealy limiting it's flexibility.
The most likely candidate for an engine would be a turbofan.

tphuang

A news that Guizhou (GAIC) has a new UAV that just had it's first flight. It's designed by GAIC and CAC. GAIG did most of the worth and final assembly. Doesn't really indicate what the UAV is though.

danielchin

The story did mention the "roaring" of the UAV, so sounds like a jet one.

escobar

russia neither don't have a reliable UAV designs and technology.I heard that thewy want to buy UAV from israel.

tphuang

I'm too lazy to post the magazine article pictures here, but there is a recent article regarding 2 UAVs under development by Shaanxi aircraft company.

They are LeiNiao (Thunderbird) and xiangyan.

LeiNiao is a high speed UAV and xiangyang is a long endurance UAV.

LeiNiao is 1.7 m long and 2.3 m in wingspan. It reaches a maximum speed of 500 km/h, maximum altitude of 5000 m and has 10 kg of payload. Current thrust of powerplant is 23 kg. Can swap for a more powerful engine for higher speed. 500 km/h and 5000 m are pretty fast and high for a piston propeller plane according to the interview. It says that it uses a turbojet engine and can only fly for half an hour and the range is 200 km. Can take off in 110 m at speed of 100 km/h. It says this plane can be remotely controlled by a ground station. Ground control is simple, includes a display, showing UAV's flight profile, speed and altitude. It has multi-functional display of a normal fighter and has 2 controller. Control station should be about 100 km away.

It can be used for reconnaissance, attack and high speed target drone. For reconnaissance, it can carry on a spherical shaped EO tracker. It also talks about finding a target through recon and launch suicidal attacks against the target (it will need to carry a warhead for this). It serves a role similar to Harpy in this case. Cost of this is around 500,000 yuan or 80,000 USD. It has very low profile, so hard to track. Can carry things to enhance radar signature to make it easier for the testing system. The development for this started in 2007. It says that wind tunnel testing is not needed.

As for Xiangyan, started aerodynamics design in August 2007 (borrowed funding from Y-8 project) and finished design by September. By end of December, they had completed already a prototype and it made first flight in May 2nd, 2008. It is 2.7 m long and 4 m in Wingspan and takeoff weight of 70 kg with 20 kg payload. Sounds like this is a low cost low altitude UAV used for surveying land, reconnaissance. aerial patrol. Xiangyan has a maximum weight of 70 kg and empty weight of 38 kg, so can only carry 10 L of gas. So even though it's so tiny, it still has a range of 15 hours using a piston propeller engine. It's cruising speed is only 110 km/h. talks about a bunch of other stuff, which is not that important.

pla101prc

russia didnt seem to employ any UAV during the georgian war.

Ambivalent

Not sure they have the C4I necessary to exploit them??? It's one thing to have a drone in the air, but do they have the C4I infrastructure to control them and exploit all the sensors?? What is the quality of their sensors anyway? Does the Russian Army train with them routinely? Are they an intergral part of their fighting doctrin, or still experimental for them?