SinoDefence Forum

planeman

Hi, hopefully these are common knowledge but can someone please enlighten me. What are they?

Player 0

They may be UAVs of some sort, or they might just be models.

planeman

Thanks Player. The lower one is definately a UAV. In fact someone on another forum has already pointed me to it; it's the "Shark" UAV: http://www.people.com.cn/GB/junshi/6...11/863289.html
Sadly I don't read chinese... Is it in production/service?

Come on guys, this is supposed to be where the Sino military experts hang out; what is the first one of?

bd popeye

I'm no expert but I think the first pic is of some models and some sort of basic avation training is taking place. You know some sort of familarization training...I.E. this is a wing. This is the nacell ETC...

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renmin

Well it says here, it weighs 100 pounds, can fly up to 4000 meters as max altitude. It was designed by Chengdu Air Corp. same company that designed J-10. The First picture looks like some sort of trainer. It must be a new trainer design, and the people are being briefed on the model.

Hsiung-Feng

yeah, the First picture looks like the Hongdu L-15 or the Russian Yak-130 trainer.

planeman

thanks. Are there any other performance stats? things like endurance, speeds, stalling speed, range etc etc.


Re the "model" aircraft. They certainly aren't L-15/Yaks as they have canards and delta wings - which are not really optimum for trainer aircraft either. I don't think the canards can move suggesting these are just models rather than flying air vehicles.

Any more info?

bTW, they look like they could represent the "J-xx" and appear to have the outline of a weapons bay under the fuselage.

adeptitus

If I were to guess, the first photo are scaled-down aircraft models assembled on-site for mock air base, used for training purposes.

It's much cheaper to use smaller-sized models than full-sized models, or the real thing. Less realistic but easier to take apart and move around. Need an extra mock airfield with 20 planes on the ground? No problem... setup in 3 hours.

planeman

But why use model aircraft which are unlike anything actually in service and which have the cockpit area camouflaged (in fact, why have camo at all?)?

Deino

I'm not completely sure, but I think these models were once again discussed at CDF and the last conclusion was that they are target drones !

Deino

planeman

a faor suggestion but to me they don't look like sensible target drones. Again, why that configuration? There are cheaper/easier alturnatives.

swimmerXC

It's a piece of wood painted... then probably lunch by catapult
How much cheaper do you want it

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planeman

It's got complex aerodynamics with canards etc. Cheaper would be something with conventional airfoil so that it wouldn't crash as quickly from a kinetic launch. Unpowered targets are of extremely limted use anyway and PLAAF et al has adequate target drones anyway.

BTW, looking closely at the top picture again, you can see a fuel cap behind the "cockpit" bubble which suggests these are powered. There appears to be a tail mounted piston engine visible on the third model back (look between the two guys heads).

My artist's impression of the drone:

isthvan

Well it’s certainly isn’t UAV… It has to complex aerodynamic configuration and I don’t see any kind of surveillance equipment on it…

And for target drone; it’s possible but why would target drone had such advanced aerodynamic configuration? I joust don’t see the point…

I remember seeing documentary whit similar model plane used by US troops in Iraq as improvised UAV… Soldiers bought model at local store and equip it whit standard web cam bought at local store… It provided them limited UAV capabilities at weary low price…
Maybe PLA does something similar for training of UAV operators?

planeman

Is it possible that they've brought "off the shelf" RC planes designed to look like the Rafale to uses as targets? not that Rafale particularly makes sense in itself, but there are RC planes designed to look like various aircraft, Rafale included:

This is another hobbiest RC Rafale, this time with a pusher prop:


?