SinoDefence Forum

F40Racer

The original purpose of J-8 no longer applies to today's situations. Today's PLAAF no longer faces threats of supersonic bombers from two superpowers. J-8II is superior to J-8 in every aspect, but it still retain it's predecessor's characteristics: big, fast, high-flying, but not very manuverable, especially compared with newer fighers like Su-27. Even the older J-7 is more agile. As far as I know, after extensive upgrades the J-8II is approaching early 3rd generation fighters like F-14 in term of overall capabilities. I have read a Chinese article that talks about the J-8 program. It says that the J-8II faces a uncertain future. In some ways the J-8II is a low cost alternative to more expensive fighter aircrafts like J-10 and J-11. It is being considered a multi-role fighter instead of a interceptor, and is being used by both PLANAF and PLAAF due to its ground strike and maritime strike capabilities. But the plane is showing its age. It may not stand a chance against 3rd generation fighers, especially in dog fights.

sumdud

5 hardpoints seems a bit low for ground strike missions. I am not sure if I would use it for such a mission either. It was designed for high altitude. Unless we see a major upgrade, I don't think it should stop playing HawkerHurricane with J-7s.

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challenge

the aircraft is hopelessly outdated.it need replacement.

Skywatcher

Might as well give the J-8II's mission to a specialized variant of the Super-10 (if such a project does exist) or the J-XX. Saves a lot of money by using a common airframe.

crobato

I'm trying to find the other J-8II threads and merge them into this one. In the meantime, these pics show a J-8F under construction. Looks like a labor intensive plane with all the riveting needed.

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crobato

And more.

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"Lets do a thermal sweep."

SteelBird

So far as I know, the J8II has 7 hard points, 6 under wings and 1 under fuselage. I think you missed the two hard points for small missiles (I think AAM) right in front of its main landing gears.

Semi-Lobster

Well the current role of the J-8II is to provide low cost support to more higher end aircraft (J-10 and J-11) and to lower end aircraft (J-7), essentially, during the 1990s, the goal was to give the J-8II true BVRAAM capabilities, something the J-7 can never completely achieve. You can sort of equip a MiG-21 with BVRAAM with the correct upgrades like India and the MiG-21bis Bison but the payload would be limited and the actually range of any BVRAAM, particularly targetting and tracking abilities would always be suspect, especially given the ceiling requirements to properly deploy a BVRAAM. In essence, the main strength of the J-8II and especially of the J-8F, is its size, wich allows it to carry the Type 1492 PD radar and can carry a substantial amount of anti air and ground ordinance. The purpose of the J-8II upgrades is to provide cost effective fire support to other aircraft, the J-7 in particular, which will probably be in service for a number of more years. While the J-7G is a marvellous little dog fighter (I've read Pakistani reports of its turning abilities rivaling that of the F-16) it is a light, low to the ground sort of fighter and would be at a serious disadvantage to any sort of heavier, BVRAAM equipped modern fighter before the J-7 could ever get close enough to unload its short range missiles which is why the J-8II is necessary. The other otherhand, the J-11B and J-10 still only make up a small portion of the PLAAF, the new J-8F fighters and the J-8H upgrades are there to fill the gap and while not the most agile aircraft in the PLAAF can fill the multi-role niche effectively enough and can be seen as having the capabilities of older, late 80's multi-role aircraft such as the early MiG-29 and Mirage 2000-5

Skywatcher

The J-8II can still toss around GPS directed glide bombs, which would make it a valuable strike platform to complement the JH-7As and various H-6 models. It also has the benefit of being faster than either one of the other aircraft.

When's the production line going to shut down?

Semi-Lobster

As far as I know, as of 2007, they've built about 120 J-8Fs starting in 2001, so thats about 20-30 and given Shenyang's slow but steady introduction of the J-11B and the rate of converting existing J-8Ds and J-8Bs I guess we can forseeably see a slow decline in production within the next several years with the lion share of Shenyangs production would logically fall to the J-11B but then again, its not like Shenyang has huge amounts of exports orders it needs to fill. I can see the J-8F serving for a while. It will certainly still be in production in some capacity after the J-7G/G2 retires

adeptitus

J-8 was originally designed to beat the pants off ROCAF's F-5E's, which did its job and spurred ROCAF to (attempt) acquire the F-20, then IDF.

I'm curious as to why the PRC never exported the J-8II? The A-5 and J-7's were both successful export products, but not hte J-8II.

tphuang

J-8F can definitely score hits against IDF, F-16 and M2K. Look, it has pretty good T/W ratio, a 4th generation radar and the ability to fire PL-12.

it was their top fighter for a long time and when they were ready to export it as F-8IIM, Iran wanted J-8F, which PLAAF wasn't willing to export.

PrOeLiTeZ

Personally the PLAAF wont waste an airframe such as the J-8 just cause its outdated, it is evident that all existing J-8 platforms are being converted to J-8F standard. Though with that said once J-8 has stopped and it reaches its operational lifespan it still has its purposes its got incredible speed and altitude. It will be great for a recon aircraft, extremely cheap and reliable platform that PLAAF has plenty of. J-7 production has stopped all together so we can see a dramistic decline in the inventory of PLAAF. I dont see the PLAAF is wanting to fill the J-7 with another light fighter anymore, it would be a waste of budget to then be replaced within a decade. Anything lighter then the J-10 isn't good. Though that said anything heavier then the J-11 isnt either.

SteelBird

I think J-8F is not top any more as they have J-10 and J-11. Any foreign customer?

I keep wondering why J-8s doesn't have the two features found on J-7s: one piece wind shield and double delta wings?

crobato

Let's face it, SAC/AVIC isn't making that much money on the J-8II, and I guess the plane's development has been gradually being squeezed on the military budget. The J-7 is still motivated by exports and its refining developments done in this decade are partially motivated by such. The J-8F is in a quandary, the desirable model, the J-8F isn't allowed for export, and no one is willing to take the F-8IIM or the J-8IIM, whose radar (Type 1471) is a generation behind that of the PLAAF (Type 1492).

The plane is a gas guzzler too. Its like selling a late sixties muscle car with modernized interior and amenities in an age when the barrel of oil is over 125 dollars. Compared to the J-7, its complicated, and its going to be beast in maintenance.

Why no double delta like the Su-15? Frankly despite what the Su-15 did, double delta is not good for an interceptor mission. It may improve maneuverability but at the expense of increase drag and reduced speed.

Note the J-7E/G added leading slats on the double delta wings, the only member in the Fishbed family to ever do so. Slats, a common fixture on many fighter aircraft, helps improve the lift efficiency of the wings, which improves handling, agility, lessens takeoff and landing speeds. But doing so, also increases drag and reduces speed. The "slatted" F-4E has better maneuverability over the non-slatted F-4B, but guess who was faster. One famous fighter aircraft in history was born with slats, but in later versions, went with "hard" wings as an upgrade. That was the F-86 Sabre. The J-8s all have "hard" wings. Fighters that emphasize speed, like the F-15 and MiG-25/31, all have hard wings, bucking the trend for slatted wings like the rest of the fighter crowd.

In fact its quite interesting to note that the JL-9/FTC-2000, which also featured double delta wings, abandoned the slats used by the J-7E/G.

Even with double delta, slatted wings, I don't believe the J-8II would impress anyone with its maneuverability skills. It faces other problems like the shape of the intakes that isn't optimized and angled for high angles of attack. The more you keep changing the J-8II, the more you end up with a new aircraft.

So a decision call has to be made not to morph its nature, keep its focus, and the plane must remain strictly a hit and run interceptor where its best at.

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"Lets do a thermal sweep."