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JL-15 and other trainers

This is a discussion on JL-15 and other trainers within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; The L-15 just isnt design to be an air supiority aircraft and wont stand up well to the modern 21st ...

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Old 06-27-2007   #76
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

The L-15 just isnt design to be an air supiority aircraft and wont stand up well to the modern 21st century aircrafts. Its payload isnt that great so it cannot carry much weapons so it cannot as effectively protect a carrier. And so too is its range. J-10 also has a twin seater but meh. To be honest if I was responsible to choose a candiate for PLA first carrier I would choose neither J-10 nor L-15. I would go with the J-11 as it is a proven aircraft (Su-33) and as China is new to carrier arena they should take it safe first before taking major strides.

Carrier cost HEAPS of money so you would want the best possible ideal carrier aircraft candiate possible. Not one that seems fitting but one that is fitting.
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Old 06-27-2007   #77
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
this is interesting

HKB报道:中航二集团将加强与巴基斯坦全面合作 xM{AIA,n|
截至今年3月份,中航二集团已累计向巴基斯坦出口交付各类飞鸡,直升鸡111架,以及所需备份 发动鸡和零备 件。中巴两国合作研制的K8飞鸡以其良好的市场定位,优秀的飞行品质,赢得了许多国家的赞誉。 今年2月又完 成了在巴基斯坦境内的K8飞鸡大修线的建设项目。
K8P项目正在积极实施,其中首批飞鸡已于2006年交付巴基斯坦,第二批,第三批将分别于2008 年和2 010年交付。直9项目进展顺利,将分期分批交付巴基斯坦。。。

basically says that AVIC2 has delivered 111 aircraft/helicopters to pakistan. In February of this year, they finished the K-8 maintenance line in Pakistan. The first batch is delivered in 2006 and the 2nd and 3rd batch will be delivered in 2008 and 2010. Z-9 program is progressing well, will deliver in batch to Pakistan.
HI tphuang,

where did you get this article from? “飞鸡“ means flying chicken rather than airplane. This sort of simple grammatical mistakes, really put the validaty of the artile in doubt.
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Old 06-27-2007   #78
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by jwangyue View Post
HI tphuang,

where did you get this article from? “飞鸡“ means flying chicken rather than airplane. This sort of simple grammatical mistakes, really put the validaty of the artile in doubt.
not really, it's a typical practice to do this. Same with "Fa Dong Ji", where chicken is used instead of machinery.
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Old 06-28-2007   #79
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by crobato View Post
I am thinking that the KLJ-6F would fit on the L-15. I believe, from studying the brochures, that the KLJ-6F is the BVR capable version of the KLJ-6E proposed for the J-7G/F-7xG, probably intended to make the J-7G PL-12 capable. However, a small BVR capable radar can potentially be used on trainers, like the JL-9 and the L-15.
The L-15's nose cone areas is supposed to be expanded by the time the final production versions appears, with the specific purpose of housing a more powerful radar. Since radar size isn't typically an issue with trainers, that signifies that this plane is intended to do more than teach farmboys how to fly.
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Old 07-04-2007   #80
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
this is a nice article on L-15, about the 3rd prototype apparently set to fly this year.

don't have time to translate everything, so I will just do a short summary.
- hope to sell 500 L-15 at price of 15 million each
- because plaaf is mass equipping 4th gen planes, the sales outlook is good
- Prototype 03 will fly before the end of 2007 for sure
- it says the cockpit is very advanced, indigenously developed
- engine is imported, but should eventually use indigenous
- FBW developed by lab 618 with lab 640's help
- L-15 has airframe life span of 10000 hours and 30 years
- test pilot has flown 30 different types of planes, enjoys flying J-10 the most and then su-27.
So, When will L-15 be certified? Looks like PLAAF will not buy these, but keep
on using K-8.
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Old 07-04-2007   #81
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by kca90 View Post
So, When will L-15 be certified? Looks like PLAAF will not buy these, but keep
on using K-8.
K8 is in no shape to train J10/J11 pilots, simply not in the same generation. PLAAF will probably order some JL9 as transition then move on to L15 once the older generation fighters are phased out.
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Old 07-05-2007   #82
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by umggc View Post
K8 is in no shape to train J10/J11 pilots, simply not in the same generation. PLAAF will probably order some JL9 as transition then move on to L15 once the older generation fighters are phased out.
So, what do they use for training pilots flying J-10/J-11?
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Old 07-05-2007   #83
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

you guys speak no putonghua?

the word "chicken" and "machine" in putonghua have the same pronunciation "ji".

So the word "fei ji" ?? means flying machine or more properly airplane, not flying chicken . The article mistranslates the word airplane into flying chicken.
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Old 07-06-2007   #84
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kca90 View Post
So, what do they use for training pilots flying J-10/J-11?
It is a bit complicated. Right now most J10/J11 pilots have been seasoned J7 pilots. For them it is more of transition/adaptation to fly J10/J11. Before they flew J7, they were probably trained on CJ6 -> K8 -> JJ7.
It will become a problem later when J10/J11 will be operated by new pilots. The gap from JJ7 to these jets will be so big that PLA will need a better trainer, something like L15.
Currently PLA is still producing new J7 and J8II variants. They also need a trainer better than JJ7. JL9 fits this role well, as it is mostly an updated JJ7.
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Old 07-07-2007   #85
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

to your information - il prefer L-15 for future PLAN (carrier) pilots ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Piloten Ausbildungsplan a.jpg (186.8 KB, 77 views)
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Old 07-07-2007   #86
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kca90 View Post
So, When will L-15 be certified? Looks like PLAAF will not buy these, but keep
on using K-8.
K-8s r the best yaar!!

just ask the pakistani-air-force

Since the L-15 is supersonic, it is more suitable for air-defence role than that of a trainer

the JL-9 which is powered by WP-13 F(C) turbojet engine
max thrust of 4,400 kg or
6,450 kg with afterburning is more suitable for the job of a trainer !!!



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Old 07-07-2007   #87
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

K8 is a basic jet trainer. It is a good one for this purpose. But it is not an advanced trainer. New pilots will need a transition from K8 to those fighters like J10/J11, thus a trainer that resembles those jets is needed. Just look at sczepan's graph. The roles of each type of trainer are very clear.
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Old 07-08-2007   #88
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kca90 View Post
So, When will L-15 be certified? Looks like PLAAF will not buy these, but keep
on using K-8.
The L-15 Falcon, powered by two DV-2F or AI-222K-25F turbofan engines with afterburner, should be the trainer aircraft for future PLAN-pilots. I prefere the L-15, because two engines ar better than one engine in carrier-operations.

How to train future PLAN carrier pilots?

First step will be land based L-15;

secound step should be Varyag based L-15;
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post

....i figure would it be better for china to choose L-15 (as china's first carrierbone aircraft) ... ? Because L-15 seems to have a more carrier suitable design than J-10. For it is two seated and twin engine powered aircraft a design thats praised by most of the carrier operation users....

third step could be L-15 with the 20.000 ts Type 081 LHD / LPH (if the ship includes catapulte) for lightweight ground attack and air to air fight in amphibious operations (the aircraft also has six (four under-wing and two wingtip) pylons to carry various air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. If necessary, it can serve for lightweight attack role with minor modifications);

next step could be Varyag (50.000 ts) again to train the SU-27 / J-11 (derivate) or twin engine powered J-10x ...

and last step could be chinese Flankers and J-10x in operational regiments with new build carriers (> 80.000 ts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yehe View Post
.....

And Varyag is refitted for training purpose mainly, like a Sea based flight academy.
In this view the Varyag as part of Dalian naval academy would n' be in military use; thats what the contract with Ukraijna expect.

Last edited by Sczepan; 07-08-2007 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 11-18-2007   #89
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I have been looking for a photo displaying K-8 weapons for a while and was happy to come across this one today. Can you please help identify all those weapons?

Thanks.

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Old 11-20-2007   #90
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

PL-7 Up front in red, Chinese rocket pod (57mm?), don't know about the bomb. Centerline pylon fitted with gunpod. As for the AAM on right end of the picture, I am guessing a PL-5.
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