SinoDefence Forum

icy_CMU · 11-28-2006

why does china has 2types of ad.-trainer in the same time? I think they're hard to maintainance. It's about gov. wants every company win ?

crobato · 11-28-2006

Mainly because China's aviation industry is by itself, highly capitalistic and competitive, contrary to what most people want to believe. You got small regional aircraft companies competing with each other for the same market space. Betweem the FTC-2000 and the L-15, I see two very different approaches trying to fill the same market niche. The PLAAF is likely only to adopt one of them.

challenge · 11-28-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by crobato

Mainly because China's aviation industry is by itself, highly capitalistic and competitive, contrary to what most people want to believe. You got small regional aircraft companies competing with each other for the same market space. Betweem the FTC-2000 and the L-15, I see two very different approaches trying to fill the same market niche. The PLAAF is likely only to adopt one of them.

fTC-2000 or JL-9 was private venture.withlittle ,if not support from top.

pilok2006 · 02-13-2007

Good day everyone. I am a newbie here.
Just like to ask you guys some info.
does anyone here knows about the new L-15 trainer jets from china?
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/trainer/l15.asp

how much does each unit cost?
have it been use in combat? how is the performance?
does china export it?

thanks

tphuang · 03-07-2007

this is a nice article on L-15, about the 3rd prototype apparently set to fly this year.

Quote:

核心提示：洪都集团日前全面启动“猎鹰”03架飞机研制工作，确保2007年底首飞。洪都集团公司近日召开了“猎鹰”高教机03架飞机研制工作动员大会，对该机一级网络图研制工作进行了全面部署，并向各参研单位下达任务，要求各参研单位按节点要求保质保量完成研制生产任务。

洪都集团日前全面启动“猎鹰”03架飞机研制工作，确保2007年年底首飞。洪都集团公司近日召开了“猎鹰 ”高教机03架飞机研制工作动员大会，对该机一级网络图研制工作进行了全面部署，并向各参研单位下达任务，要求各参研单位按节点要求保质保量完成研制生产任务。

洪都集团日前全面启动“猎鹰”03架飞机研制工作，确保2007年年底首飞。洪都集团公司近日召开了“猎鹰 ”高教机03架飞机研制工作动员大会，对该机一级网络图研制工作进行了全面部署，并向各参研单位下达任务，要求各参研单位按节点要求保质保量完成研制生产任务。

L-15高教机能模拟苏-27座舱性能先进

随着苏-27为代表的第三代高性能战机大量列装许多国家的空军，国际军机市场对军用教练机提出了更高的要求。目前世界各国现役的第二代军用教练机已经不能满足空军的训练需求。中国、欧盟、俄罗斯、韩国等国家和国际组织纷纷开始研制第三代军用高级教练机。

为了能与性能优良的第三代战机接轨，各国空军对新一代军用教练机提出了超音速、大推重比、高敏捷性、高性能航电系统等几项硬性指标。这些指标也成了我国打造下一代高教机的标准。

根据洪都集团介绍，“猎鹰”采用了翼身融合技术、前机身边条翼等目前国际上比较先进的气动力设计；4余度数字式电传操纵系统以及开放式的综合航电系统。“猎鹰”具备大迎角飞行性能、较高的能量机动飞行性能等第三代战机才具备的飞行特性。

据洪都集团总工程师姚志介绍，“猎鹰”采用了具备“变稳”操控功能的电传飞控系统。该机可以通过改变飞控系统的参数，模拟诸如苏-27、苏-30等多种型号的第三代战机的驾驶感觉。飞行学员不必登上那些昂贵的三代战机，在“猎鹰”上就可以获得与三代战机一样的训练效果。

“猎鹰”具有与三代战机接轨的开放式综合航电系统，可以为飞行学员提供与三代战机相类似的人机界面，使其尽快掌握三代战机的驾驶技术。同时，开放式的综合航电系统也更方便了机载航空电子设备的升级。这在电子设备决定飞机性能的今天，具有很大意义。

一方面可以配属飞行学院和训练基地，成为飞行学员进入部队驾驶三代战机前的战斗入门教练机。改变以往老式高教机不能适应三代战机飞行员训练的现状。另一方面，该机可以列装到作战部队，成为三代战机的伴随式教练机。由于该机的飞行费用大大低于第三代战机，部队平时可以利用L-15来维持飞行员的日常训练，控制训练成本。

在首飞仪式的前一天，我前往洪都航空工业集团试飞站，对机库中的“猎鹰”进行了静态的拍摄。与3月13日首飞时不同，“猎鹰”通体被涂装成与作战飞机相类似的铅灰色，机翼和机腹下方饰以黑色条纹。另外，机翼上还被喷上了中国空军的八一军徽。

在参观中，我看到该机座舱中各种综合航电系统完全齐备，给人的感觉俨然像一架即将交付的生产型飞机，而不像是做试验用的原型机。该机的总设计师张弘说，不仅首飞时飞机采用综合航电系统进行首飞，连电传操纵系统也采用了“主模态”进行首飞。这和以往的飞机研制中，01架原型机只安装最基本的飞行仪表，满足能上天要求相比，有了很大进步。

我在现场看到，该机的座舱设备的先进程度，与在外国航展上见到过的一些外国先进作战飞机，已经不相上下。洪都集团的董事总经理吴方辉介绍说，该机的航电设备均为中国制造，而发动机虽然目前为进口型号，但不久后也将实现国产化

电传飞控系统由618所负责,640所参加。

中航二集团已计划引进乌克兰的AI-222-25F发动机作为L-15的动力，并将实现国产化。看来WS-11基本到头了。

L-15机体结构寿命达到30年/10000飞行小时。

首席试飞员张景亭飞过近30种机型，在这些飞机当中，他认为飞国产某新型战斗机最过瘾，其次是苏-27。

L-15高教机预计卖出500架单价1500万美元.
由于与我军现在开始大批换装的第三代战斗机配套，所以销售前景被看好。
有分析人士认为，由于L15的市场容量至少能有500架，保守估计股份公司至少能从每架L15 享有1/3的收入，届时洪都航空的业绩将会取得较大的增长。
整体上市概念公司将注入一部分资产。

don't have time to translate everything, so I will just do a short summary.
- hope to sell 500 L-15 at price of 15 million each
- because plaaf is mass equipping 4th gen planes, the sales outlook is good
- Prototype 03 will fly before the end of 2007 for sure
- it says the cockpit is very advanced, indigenously developed
- engine is imported, but should eventually use indigenous
- FBW developed by lab 618 with lab 640's help
- L-15 has airframe life span of 10000 hours and 30 years
- test pilot has flown 30 different types of planes, enjoys flying J-10 the most and then su-27.

Deino · 03-22-2007

Just found !!!

... nice CG's !

bd popeye · 03-22-2007

What i like on the pic of the JL-15 landing is that the "PS artist" has really beefed up the aircrafts landing gear. Which in reality would be necessary to make arrested landings. But they need to add another whell to the front gear. All that weight on that single wheel and tire assembly would take a real beating.

scorpioking · 03-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye

What i like on the pic of the JL-15 landing is that the "PS artist" has really beefed up the aircrafts landing gear. Which in reality would be necessary to make arrested landings. But they need to add another wheel to the front gear. All that weight on that single wheel and tire assembly would take a real beating.

You are the man. As a fan of AC, I hope I have same knowledges,

)

Sczepan · 03-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deino

Just found !!!

... nice CG's !

http://x.bbs.sina.com.cn/forum/pic/47471c530103f622

http://x.bbs.sina.com.cn/forum/pic/47471c530103f621

they are some people which mean the same thing as I do - this plane seems to be perfect for carrier-training and in light weight carrier based attack role

bd popeye · 03-22-2007

Quote:

You are the man. As a fan of AC, I hope I have same knowledges, )

Thank you

Siince you are new I will tell you this as most others already know.>>> I gained most of my knowledge by actually serving in the USN on board 5 CV's over a period of 20 years. Plus I have kept up with Naval avation since I retired in '91. Thanks again for your kind comments.

Feel free to read and post in our aircraft carrier thread. One of the very best on the internet if I do say so myself!

Aircraft Carriers

Quote:

they are some people which mean the same thing as I do - this plane seems to be perfect for carrier-training and in light weight carrier based attack role

I agree 100%. The Varyag could be loaded with about 40-50 of these little beauties no problem. They could pack quite a punch if properly modified for CV use.

The USN uses the T-45 Goshawk for training new Naval Avaitors. The appearance, size is similar to the JL-15. Note the structure of the front landing gear.

Deino · 03-22-2007

... the only thing that makes me wonder is the PL-12 ... without any radar !

crobato · 03-22-2007

I am thinking that the KLJ-6F would fit on the L-15. I believe, from studying the brochures, that the KLJ-6F is the BVR capable version of the KLJ-6E proposed for the J-7G/F-7xG, probably intended to make the J-7G PL-12 capable. However, a small BVR capable radar can potentially be used on trainers, like the JL-9 and the L-15.

tphuang · 05-06-2007

this is interesting

Quote:

HKB报道：中航二集团将加强与巴基斯坦全面合作 xM{AIA,n|
截至今年3月份，中航二集团已累计向巴基斯坦出口交付各类飞鸡，直升鸡111架，以及所需备份发动鸡和零备件。中巴两国合作研制的K8飞鸡以其良好的市场定位，优秀的飞行品质，赢得了许多国家的赞誉。今年2月又完成了在巴基斯坦境内的K8飞鸡大修线的建设项目。
K8P项目正在积极实施，其中首批飞鸡已于2006年交付巴基斯坦，第二批，第三批将分别于2008年和2 010年交付。直9项目进展顺利，将分期分批交付巴基斯坦。。。

basically says that AVIC2 has delivered 111 aircraft/helicopters to pakistan. In February of this year, they finished the K-8 maintenance line in Pakistan. The first batch is delivered in 2006 and the 2nd and 3rd batch will be delivered in 2008 and 2010. Z-9 program is progressing well, will deliver in batch to Pakistan.

cooker · 06-24-2007

recently there are rumors saying J-10 will become china's first carrierbone aircraft.( http://military.china.com/zh_cn/dljl.../14178528.html )

nevertheless, i figure would it be better for china to choose L-15 instead? because L-15 seems to have a more carrier suitable design than J-10. For it is two seated and twin engine powered aircraft a design thats praised by most of the carrier operation users. Or else, could L-15 carrieborne aircraft has already entered development phrase and the J-10 just being developed for back up in case L-15 encounter problems?

yehe · 06-25-2007

L15 is a trainer, not exactly same as J10, which is a multirole fighter with air superiority in mind. Anyway, I dont think J10 will ever become carrier bone, maybe the twinengined version, but then it really cant be called for J10 anymore.

And Varyag is refitted for training purpose mainly, like a Sea based flight academy.

SinoDefence Forum

JL-15 and other trainers

JL-15 and other trainers

DefenceTalk Military Pictures

vBulletin Tweet Poster