SinoDefence Forum

tphuang

since there hasn't been a thread on this, I thought I'd start one. I actually have an interesting article on JL-15

《世界兵器》观察员 鲁晓冬
　　“中国空军目前还是从优秀的二代战机飞行员中选拔三代战机的飞行员。这些飞行员从初级教练机一路飞 上来，飞完二代机再转飞三代机，岁数都很大了。空军需要一种性能与三代战斗机相衔接的高级教练机，直接训练 年轻的三代战机飞行员。”
　　-L-15高级军用教练机的总设计师张弘
　　随着第三代先进战斗机逐渐加入中国空军的战斗序列，中国空军迫切需要大量的先进教练机，以训练能够驾御 先进战机的飞行员。9月21日开幕的北京航展上，以生产军用教练机著名的中国洪都航空工业集团宣布，该集团 特为培训第三代战机飞行员而研制的L-15型高级教练机，将于今年11月首飞，于2007年加入中国空军战斗序列。
　　在航展上，一提到L-15这个机型，洪都集团的工作人员必然提到“三代战机”。
　　“空军目前还是从优秀的二代战机飞行员中选拔三代战机的飞行员。这些飞行员从初级教练机一路飞上来 ，飞完二代机再转飞三代机，岁数都很大了。空军需要一种性能与三代战斗机相衔接的高级教练机，直接训练年轻 的三代战机飞行员。”L-15高级教练机的总设计师张弘对本报记者说。
　　“L-15高级教练机的飞行机动性能和敏捷性，与第三代战机十分相似，飞行学员通过L-15的训练，可以很快掌握苏-27等第三代战机的驾驶技术。”张弘说。“另外，飞机上安装的电传操纵系统，可以模拟多种三代战机 的驾驶感觉，飞行员可以在L-15上学习这些第三代战机的飞行技术，而所花的训练成本却只有三代战机的八分之一。”
　　当被问到将于2007年交付使用的L-15多少钱可以买一架时，洪都集团的母公司——中国航空工业第二集团的副总经理徐占斌说：“大 约1500万美元”，而总设计师张弘则点点头笑而不语。

This is published by a magazine called "World Weapons" in China.

It basically states that L-15 will be out by 2007 and will cost approximately 15 million US each. As we probably have read, L-15 finished assembling the first prototype a day ahead of the schedule, it's scheduled to fly in November and join plaaf in 2007. It's going to be an interesting battle between JL-9 and JL-15 considering that plaaf is already purchasing 10 JL-9 next year.

MIGleader

15 mil? that may be a bit expensive to be real. thats how much an fc-1 costs.

the pla is probably using jl-9 to upgrade its inventory, ewhile using l-15 for elite units.

tphuang

I'm not sure how much China is selling K-8 and JL-9, but JL-15 is designed probably for more than just trainer. If you look at its specs, it might be used for attack missions and such.

tphuang

more on L-15, seems like the news keep on getting better
http://military.china.com/zh_cn/news.../12762968.html

　　据航空报报道：10月5日，L15高教机燃油系统地面模拟试验完成了首飞前的各项试验，比原定节点提前 10天。为L15高教机首飞奠定了有力的科学基础。这是L15高教机首飞前必做的重大型试验项目之一，燃油 系统地面模拟试验是全面考核L15高教机在飞行过程中燃油系统设计方案和原理的正确性、合理性，这一试验的 圆满完成，必将给L15高教机研制试验战线上的广大参研人员极大的激励和鞭策。
　　
　　目前首架L15高教机已进入试飞站，以全力推进L15高教机的研制生产进程，年内实现L15高教机首飞 。

basically, it's saying that the first L-15 made it to the flight center 10 days before the schedule.

adeptitus

There are no sales of JL-9 or JL-15 to date, but here's some info on K-8 prices:


http://www.paktribune.com/exclusive/...ails.php?id=70
"The $20 million K-8 advanced jet trainer has been jointly designed and produced by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra and China's Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Company (NAMC) and is manufactured at NAMC. Pakistan had earlier unilaterally developed a similar aircraft, but sought a partnership with China to further advance production and technology standards of that aircraft."


http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/22-ap...hter-jets.html
22 April 2005
Cash strapped Mugabe buys jets
BY VIOLET GONDA
"The cash strapped government of President Robert Mugabe has purchased six jet fighters - cheap Chinese versions of the British Aerospace BAE Hawk. The price tag for one jet is said to be between 10 and 20 million US dollars. Reasonable to some but expensive to our debt-ridden country."


http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep20...004/index.html
China is Pakistan’s main defence supplier. The two countries have cooperated on a number of projects, including joint production of the K-8 jet trainer aircraft.
The K-8 has already been inducted into the Pakistan air force and has also been sold to several other countries, including a $ 40 million deal for the sale of 10 planes to Saudi Arabia that is currently in the pipeline.
The K-8, a new generation jet trainer, has been co-developed by China National Aero Technology Import & Export Corporation (CATIC), China Nanching Aircraft Manufacturing Company and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), a facility set up by the Pakistan Air Force at Kamra, 50 miles north of Rawalpindi.
As a low-cost jet trainer with a price tag of $ 4 million per copy, the K-8 is considered the optimum cost-effective solution for the training role, and will eventually replace the entire fleet of T-37 jet trainers at the PAF Air Academy, Risalpur. The K-8 has also been inducted into the Chinese air force, as well as into the air forces of Myanmar and Zambia.
In October 2000, Egypt, too, decided to induct the K-8 into its air force. It plans to buy 80 K-8s, in a deal worth $ 347 million, including the cost of crew training and logistic support. Between 25 to 45 per cent of this $ 347 million will come to Pakistan, under the terms of its joint manufacturing agreement with China. Several other countries, including Zimbabwe and Namibia have also shown interest in buying the K-8.


http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/how...get=HTPROC.HTM
"September 8, 2005: China has sold 80 K-8E jet trainers to Egypt, for $4.4 million each. The price includes the transfer of manufacturing technology, so that the aircraft can be assembled in Egypt. The 4.2 ton K-8 is a joint Chinese-Pakistani design. Some of the parts are made in Pakistan, but the aircraft were assembled in China. It was expected that the Chinese air force would adopt the K-8, but the air force refused, citing the large number of aircraft parts manufactured in a foreign nation (Pakistan). First deliveries of the K-8 were made in 1996 (six each to the Chinese and Pakistani air forces.) Pakistan didn't buy the K-8 either, deciding it would be cheaper to refurb its existing T-37 trainers. China eventually bought 30, and Pakistan 8. Five other nations bought small quantities of the K-8 since then (Morocco 20, Burma 12, Namibia 4, Sri Lanka 9 and Zambia 8). The sale to Egypt is the first substantial one. "

==================================

I think there's a pretty big unit price flux between Pakistan, which prolly added PAC's R&D costs, to small number sales, and large orders with local assembly.

IMO $15 mil unit price for a L-15 is not an unreasonable number. China charges more than that for a new J-7/MiG-21 for Nigeria.

tphuang

according to war-sky, JL-15 successfully completed its first flight at 1:20 PM yesterday. Good news for sure.

swimmerXC

im sure there are countries out there who would by JL-9, i mean if they bought the K-8..
well poor countries might by the JL-15, b/c it's cheap and can be used as a small attack craft (kinda like a mini-J-7) and trainer... 2 for 1 deal...

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ahho

hey nice thinking, but would they be better off to buy fc-1 (if it is only 15 mil)

tphuang

there is not a chance that FC-1 will be sold for anything less than $20 million with those new modification. Even the F-7Ns sold to Nigeria were like $18 million each, but that probably included upgraded radar and missiles.

MIGleader

they included a traiinig and weapons package, along with spares. that will kick up the price. pakistan can manufacture its own parts and train its own pilots for fc-1.

Sczepan

some pix

Attached Images

L-15-01 small.jpg (70.9 KB, 102 views)

peace_lover

Actually , one JL-15 costs 15 million RMB, 15 million USD , i read it in a chinese magzine last evening . I am from china

MIGleader

how did 15 million rmb=15 million usd? 15 million usd(which is far more likely) is 120 rmb.
most of us know that 1 USD=8 RMb, DONT NEED TO REMIND US!

ahho

errr 15million RMB, china would have massproduced it

tphuang

http://mil.qianlong.com/4919/2005/11/17/228@2888716.htm
not sure if this is official, but qianlong is one of the well known Chinese sites, so this is most likely true.

千龙网北京11月17日讯 截止11月10日，
由洪都航空工业集团公司自行研制的L15高教机已完成了全机燃油、液压、静力、发动机启封开车等首飞前必做 的地面试验任务，其余重大地面试验正按“保质量、保节点”要求向前推进，确保L15高教机年内 首飞。

　　10月5日下午， L15高教机燃油系统地面模拟试验完成了首飞前的各项试验，数据显示试验符合设计要求。这是L15高教机首 飞前必做的重大试验项目之一，燃油系统地面模拟试验是全面考核L15高教机在飞行过程中燃油系统设计方案和 原理的正确性与合理性。

　　10月13日晚上9时许，L15高教机液压系统全机地面模拟试验顺利结束，整个地面试验状态良好，过到 了预期设计目的。L15高教机液压系统全机地面模拟试验是L15首飞前必做的重点大型试验项目之一，它用于 验证L15高教机液压系统功能是否满足设计要求，导管、成件、附件在各种工作状态下的安全可靠性，评估液压 系统抗故障能力。

　　10月14日下午4时许，L15高教机全机悬空静力14项试验顺利完成，各项数据符合试验大纲要求。这 是L15高教机首飞前必做的重大试验项目之一， L15高教机全机悬空静力试验是一项试验飞机在外界的作用下，机械运动状态保持不变（平衡）的条件。

　　10月27-30日，对L15高教机发动机进行“左、右”发冷试车、慢车等各种状态下试车，试车中发动机各项数据工作正 常。

　　11月6日上午9时许，又对L15高教机发动机进行地面试车。启动“双发”成功，随后“双发”进入慢车 、中速、大转速，中速、慢车等各种工作状态，地面各项测试数据显示和机上各项测试数据显示，“双发”在各状 态下工作一切正常，符合L15高教机设计要求，至此，L15高教机发动机阶段性地面试车工作圆 满完成。

　　另据消息，L15高教机机翼、座舱盖静力试验即将开始，各项前期准备工作都已就绪。 01架全机震动试验11月中旬结束。 近期内L15高教机将进行地面滑行试验。