JL-15 and other trainers

You may remember that in 1967 the Israelis even used their Fouga Magisters in their great air offensive against Egypt.

This rumor says: PLAAF ordered 300 L-15's & PLANAF ordered another 100 L-15's. It also said, Hongdu has 187 L-15 foreign orders.

Originally Posted by A.Man

This rumor says: PLAAF ordered 300 L-15's & PLANAF ordered another 100 L-15's. It also said, Hongdu has 187 L-15 foreign orders.

From which source??? By the way, L-15 indeed has the potential for domestic and foreign export order. But let just wait and see how.

L-15 Serial production coming soon?

Kyiv Post. Independence. Community. Trust - Business - General - Ukraine conveys first engines for L-15 trainer airplane to China

Ukraine is delivering the first batch of AI-222-25F engines for new Chinese L-15 trainer airplanes.

Originally Posted by Dolcevita

L-15 Serial production coming soon?

Kyiv Post. Independence. Community. Trust - Business - General - Ukraine conveys first engines for L-15 trainer airplane to China

Ukraine is delivering the first batch of AI-222-25F engines for new Chinese L-15 trainer airplanes.

This is good news, L-15 trainer has been delay for so long. FInally, it kickstart the service. I think the financial hardship on Ukrarine has some benefit on CHina military.. The domestic QC-280 gas turbine engine can happen is also becos Ukarine is willing to co-produce and tech transfer to China which now Type052C destroyer is able to produce in large number.

AI-222-25F engine will no doubt be also co-produce in China under different destination. I heard Ukarine Air Force may also order certain amount of L-15.

As for the price of USD 10 million, looks abit surprise given all the while its was under the impression it is a expensive trainer of USD15- 20 million price tag.

Hongdu May Export 12 L-15's This Year. The Listed Price of L-15 is in between 70-80 million yuan of RMB.

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Originally Posted by A.Man

Hongdu May Export 12 L-15's This Year. The Listed Price of L-15 is in between 70-80 million yuan of RMB.

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Here is a translation of the link

Hongdu Aviation Industry Group chief economist of First Financial on April 25, Yang Liping said that listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) Falcon L15 advanced trainer aircraft involved in the investment and development planned for this year delivered in 12 Latin American and African market, which is the first time that the models exported to foreign markets.

Are Aviation Industry Group chief economist of First Financial on April 25, Yang Liping, said that the currently listed companies Hongdu Aviation (600316.SH) Falcon L15 advanced trainer aircraft involved in the investment and development planned for this year delivered in 12 Latin American and African markets This is the model exported to foreign markets for the first time.
Yang Liping is made during the Fourth China's aviation industry to create international summit ". Hongdu Aviation is an enterprise specialized in producing domestic coach aircraft and general aviation aircraft; Previously, the company's main product is the intermediate trainer K8 aircraft now account for more than 75% of similar aircraft market share.
Understanding, according to First Financial, L15 aircraft both in unit price or profit margin, compared to the K8 aircraft to be much higher. Catalog price of about a L15 aircraft in 7000-8000 million can be achieved this year 12 L15 aircraft, first delivery orders totaling nearly 960 million yuan, which is equivalent Hongdu Aviation in 2011, 1.825 billion yuan of revenue 54.79 %.
Hongdu Aviation 2011 Annual Report, the year the net profit of 83.37 million yuan. According to the company in 2012, a quarterly, the first three months of this year cumulative net loss of 29.4775 million yuan loss per share of $ 0.0411.
In this regard, Yang Liping, said that the performance loss was mainly due to product deliveries due to a decrease in the first quarter. He also pointed out that the aviation manufacturing enterprises in the first quarter deliveries will be less to the third quarter will be the fast delivery channel; demand prospects of the company related products this year is acceptable, expected full-year performance should Hongdu Aviation stronger than last year.
Yang Liping further revealed that the trainer related products accounted for about three-quarters of the company's total revenue income; continue to expand the trainer field, the company also increased the expansion of agriculture, forestry and aircraft general aviation manufacturing, agriculture, forestry and aircraft to improve the development, in order to expand domestic and foreign markets.
, Hongdu Aviation and 7 of the Xi'an Aircraft Industry Group, China National Aviation Aircraft Company, the Jiangxi Provincial Investment Group jointly set up a the Hongdu commercial aircraft, the main domestic and international commercial aircraft parts, components design, development, production, sales, maintenance and services, and aviation products subcontract production.
In this connection, Yang Liping said, the Hongdu fly has received the product for large aircraft C919 aircraft fuselage contract to supply Boeing 747-8 aircraft parts is expected to the relevant body parts can be achieved in March 2013 the first deliveries.

If this is true, JF-17 export prospect will be very low...

Originally Posted by Lion

Here is a translation of the link


If this is true, JF-17 export prospect will be very low...

Yes, I have to wonder how many of these L-15s will actually be used as advanced trainers...

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

Yes, I have to wonder how many of these L-15s will actually be used as advanced trainers...

It will be an all in one trainer plus fighter/ attacker aircraft. I am shocked the latest spec of L-15 is quite comparable to JF-17. It's max speed has increased to Mach 1.6 with the new afterburner engine. Has a weapon payload of 3 tons and ferry range of 3100km..

I believe AVIC will never develop a twin seat JF-17 for PAF.

I think even if braodly comparable in terms of performaces (speed, weapons load, range maybe), they are both playing in cmpletely differents field. The FC-1/JF-17 is a small affordable light-weight figther aimed at the export market and I'm sure for some cerian roles as well as to keep a common fleet a trainer version will be quite useful and IMO it will come.

On the other side there's the L-15, a high-performance modern supersonic LIFT, which even if it reaches some of the FC-1's perfomances just only reaches that. I doubt if there's room for futher growth and also if the L-15 could carry an as sophisticated avionics suite (radar, targeting pos, EW, ...).

BUT ... I think something like the rumoured Q-6 version could be usefull to replace the Q-5-

Deino

Originally Posted by Deino

I think even if braodly comparable in terms of performaces (speed, weapons load, range maybe), they are both playing in cmpletely differents field. The FC-1/JF-17 is a small affordable light-weight figther aimed at the export market and I'm sure for some cerian roles as well as to keep a common fleet a trainer version will be quite useful and IMO it will come.

On the other side there's the L-15, a high-performance modern supersonic LIFT, which even if it reaches some of the FC-1's perfomances just only reaches that. I doubt if there's room for futher growth and also if the L-15 could carry an as sophisticated avionics suite (radar, targeting pos, EW, ...).

BUT ... I think something like the rumoured Q-6 version could be usefull to replace the Q-5-

Deino

Wow, that's a.... messy photoshop.

Anyway, as for the capabilities of the L-15, remember this article

PICTURE: Zhuhai10 - AVIC launches L-15 version with afterburner

Originally Posted by Flight Global

The L-15's fuselage has also been enlarged to accommodate a phased array radar. As for the cockpit, the L-15 Lift has a head-up display and three multifunction displays in the forward seat, and three displays in the rear.

The L-15's future as possibly as an offensive weapon rather than a training tool seems to be designed around the philosophy of an advanced, modern aircraft, crammed into a small package while the FC-1 philosophy is for a medium capable aircraft of medium size and low price. Both aircraft roughly come to around $10-12 million per aircraft with the L-15 being similar to the Korean FA-50 light fighter project, an advanced point defence fighter while the FC-1 is designed to be a general multi-role medium range fighter.

China will be pushing L-15 for export while trying to restrict JF-17 export potential.

It maybe the reason why after JF-17 inducted for 2 years of service, it can't secure an export order. JF-17 as a 50/50 venture put it disadvantage compare to L-15 which is 100% AVIC property. L-15 being twin seat will have a massive advantage over JF-17 becos it will save the money on the trainer version.

Chengdu will definitely not making a twin seated version for JF-17 to curb its export abilities. It will always just remained a PakistAn project.

I can see the JL-15 becoming a successful light weight fighter/point defense fighter, due to its advanced flight characteristics and that (as mentioned above) it is 100% Chinese.
The room for growth concerns me though.