SinoDefence Forum

sumdud · 12-18-2005

F-7Ns? When were these bought?
It isn't from the deal Nigeria asked for in the last couple of months, was it?

What modifications did it have to have it cost 18 million?
A F-7 costing more than a FC-1, JL-8 at 20 million, and L-15 at 15 million?!

How in the world can JL-8 cost more than L-15.......
In what currency did all these numbers come from?

Sczepan · 12-23-2005

sorry, can't edit the headline,
should be wrote
"JL-9 to entering service?"

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_3960805.htm

New generation of trainer aircraft passes appraisal

www.chinaview.cn 2005-12-23 15:16:51

GUIYANG, Dec. 23 (Xinhuanet) -- China's new generation of trainer aircraft, the JL9, has passed appraisal by a state-level expert panel in Guiyang, southwest China's Guizhou Province.

The JL9 advanced trainer aircraft has proven very good performances at takeoffs, landings and during flight and can effectively perform pilot training mission, said Song Wencong, an academician with the Chinese Academy of Engineering and head of the appraisal team.

"The aircraft is equipped with an advanced avionic system and its cabin design is very similar to that of the third-generation fighter aircraft," he said.

JL9 has multifunctional displays that make it easier for the pilot to acquire, access and use data, said Song.

The aircraft, designed and manufactured independently by Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group, had the first successful trial flight at the end of 2003.

The 18-month state appraisal test started in June 2004, and by the end of November, the two JL9 aircraft under test had flown for 300 hours and had 412 takeoffs and landings.

....."

adeptitus · 12-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumdud

F-7Ns? When were these bought?
It isn't from the deal Nigeria asked for in the last couple of months, was it?
What modifications did it have to have it cost 18 million?
A F-7 costing more than a FC-1, JL-8 at 20 million, and L-15 at 15 million?!
How in the world can JL-8 cost more than L-15.......
In what currency did all these numbers come from?

Here's an old blurp on Nigeria's F-7NI purchase:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...eals/index.php

Reuters reports that Nigeria's government has approved a $251 million USD purchase of 15 fighter and trainer aircraft from China, further strengthening ties between the two countries after a series of significant oil deals.

I think they took that photo from Sinodefense site. -_-;;

The $251 million deal includes 12 single-seat F-7NI fighters and 3 FT-7NI trainers, plus associated equipment. The average price per aircraft is $16.7 million USD, but the package also includes support, munitions, training, etc.

The unit price of a combat aircraft varies widely depending on the number of aircraft sold and package included. Usually, if you buy fewer planes, the unit price will be high.

sumdud · 12-24-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahho

errr 15million RMB, china would have massproduced it

Well, you can't mass produce something that isn't out yet.
The thing isn't even flying yet.
That thing would be nice though.
The JL-9 is more of a cross between a JJ-7 and a FC-1.....
It'll be perfect for countries that are crash strapped and operates FC-1s and similar fighters primarily.

Quote:

I think they took that photo from Sinodefense site. -_-;;

That's good.
Plus, when you look at the article, click on "F-7/J-7" and you will go to sinodefence. Dude, sinodefence is being recognized.
But there is nothing about the F-7N and NI.

tphuang · 12-29-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sczepan

sorry, can't edit the headline,
should be wrote
"JL-9 to entering service?"

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_3960805.htm

New generation of trainer aircraft passes appraisal

www.chinaview.cn 2005-12-23 15:16:51

GUIYANG, Dec. 23 (Xinhuanet) -- China's new generation of trainer aircraft, the JL9, has passed appraisal by a state-level expert panel in Guiyang, southwest China's Guizhou Province.

The JL9 advanced trainer aircraft has proven very good performances at takeoffs, landings and during flight and can effectively perform pilot training mission, said Song Wencong, an academician with the Chinese Academy of Engineering and head of the appraisal team.

"The aircraft is equipped with an advanced avionic system and its cabin design is very similar to that of the third-generation fighter aircraft," he said.

JL9 has multifunctional displays that make it easier for the pilot to acquire, access and use data, said Song.

The aircraft, designed and manufactured independently by Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group, had the first successful trial flight at the end of 2003.

The 18-month state appraisal test started in June 2004, and by the end of November, the two JL9 aircraft under test had flown for 300 hours and had 412 takeoffs and landings.

....."

There is a serous logjam in China's trainer industry. Seriously, I can't imagine how China can be purchasing from 3 different trainer programs. JL-9 will be in a huge problem once JL-15 becomes available. Plaaf might get 30 JL-9s, but that would be it. Export will also be a huge problem, since K-8 has already taken over all of China's traditional markets and JL-15 will be more attractive.

Deino · 03-13-2006

The Hongdu L-15 had it's maiden flight today !!!!

tphuang · 03-13-2006

few more pics

more pictures of this. There have been so many false reports of L-15 lifting off. At least this one looks real.

KYli · 03-13-2006

Great pictures.

And look real to me, also all the rumors were saying the JL15 will fly this month.

MIGleader · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tphuang

There is a serous logjam in China's trainer industry. Seriously, I can't imagine how China can be purchasing from 3 different trainer programs. JL-9 will be in a huge problem once JL-15 becomes available. Plaaf might get 30 JL-9s, but that would be it. Export will also be a huge problem, since K-8 has already taken over all of China's traditional markets and JL-15 will be more attractive.

I was thinking that the PLAAf might choose to replace all of it's existing k-8s and jj-7's with jl-9's. Some of the more elite units might get the jl-15. As the next decade rolls in, more jl-9s would get replaced by jl-15s.

To sum things up, the jl-9 is mostly going to be a stopgap aircraft until the jl-15 can be produced in sufficient numbers. Maybe some jl-9s can be sold to Pakistan to train FC-1 pilots. Since it has passed appraisel tests, we might see a few jl-9s enter service as early as later this year.

BTW, does the jl-15 have a radar?

Vlad Plasmius · 03-13-2006

I think JL-8 is a basic trainer while Jl-9 and Jl-15 are advanced trainers. It likely means the training would follow:

JL-8 then JL-15/JL-9 and then a trainer depending on what squadron they're entering such as Su-27UBK for a Flanker squadron, J-10B for a J-10 squadron etc.

I think the idea of JL-15 being used for more advanced aircraft is right. Older flankers, the J-7, J-8, and FC-1 will probably have pilots trained with JL-9.

tphuang · 03-13-2006

well, the production rate for JL-9 was said to only be about 10 next year, so JL-15 has plenty of space to make up on and it has also been tauted as a possible attacker on a future carrier. I can't imagine it not having a PD radar.

Anyhow, it looks like this is official now, since even xinhua is posting it.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2006-0...nt_4299594.htm
我国自主研发新型高级教练机L-15首飞成功

新华网南昌３月１３日电（刘济美）我国自主研发的Ｌ１５“猎鹰”新型高级教练机，１３日在中航第二集团公司属下的江西洪都航空工业集团公司首飞成功。

据洪都集团公司董事长田民介绍，Ｌ１５“猎鹰”高级教练机是一种融合了多项最新航空技术的新一代超音速喷气式教练机，采用双发双座，具有先进的气动布局、高度综合的航空电子系统、国内先进的电传控制系统和高密度的结构布局，具有第三代战斗机的大迎角机动飞行能力和高敏捷性，可用于飞行学员的基础改装训练或作为“伴随” 教练机进行战术训练，有多项外挂能力。
Ｌ１５“猎鹰”高级教练机的首飞成功，对于完善我国初、中、高级教练机的研制生产体系，满足第三代和新型飞机飞行员的训练需要，竞争国际教练机市场都具有重要的意义。在此之前，洪都集团公司自主研制的Ｋ８（雄鹰）基础教练机，已运用于国内的飞行训练并批量出口。（完）

首架L15高教机总装完成提前交付试飞站(组图)

继L15高教机在第十一届北京国际航空展览会上凸显风采之后，洪都航空工业集团公司L15高教机总装现场再传捷报。

9月29日
下午4时整，洪都集团公司自行研制的L15高教机总装提前一天顺利交付试飞站。L15高教机总装交付标志着该机又迈上了一个新台阶，更重要的是年内实现首飞可以成为现实。

Andrew · 03-14-2006

I may be totally wrong with my observation but the front section of the fuselage (the way the "nose" is shaped, in particular) reminds me a little of the F-22. Could this be an attempt at trying to bring some stealthy aspects into the design and use the experience gained for later fighter projects?

F-22
L-15

Deino · 03-14-2006

....

swimmerXC · 03-14-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIGleader

I was thinking that the PLAAf might choose to replace all of it's existing k-8s and jj-7's with jl-9's. Some of the more elite units might get the jl-15. As the next decade rolls in, more jl-9s would get replaced by jl-15s.

To sum things up, the jl-9 is mostly going to be a stopgap aircraft until the jl-15 can be produced in sufficient numbers. Maybe some jl-9s can be sold to Pakistan to train FC-1 pilots. Since it has passed appraisel tests, we might see a few jl-9s enter service as early as later this year.

BTW, does the jl-15 have a radar?

Nobody makes just a trainer with probably zero-zero ejection seats and able to carry drop tanks
The thing is also two engined, I wouldn't be surprised if it eneded up on the Varyag (if it ever becomes a carrier, I'm still sticking to casino)

Deino · 03-16-2006

Video of the L-15's first flight in Mandarin (Windows media player required) :

http://tokyo.cool.ne.jp/aka666/pak/14423797.wmv

Cheers, Deino

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