SinoDefence Forum

Semi-Lobster

Hmm, thats a shame, it would make an interesting side-project. With the JL-9 having such a long time both in the lab and in the air now, not a great deal of time and energy would really be necessary to invest into LFC-16 which would more or less be the JL-9 with canards and a combat radar. Jane's All the World's Aircraft 2008-2009 quotes the price of the JL-9 (sans radar) to be a mere 2.4 million dollars per aircraft, conceivably a miltarised JL-9 would only be $5-6 million, thats an amazing price for a fighter aircraft.

tphuang

that's exactly why L-15 is getting nothing now. Even though it's on paper a superior aircraft in every way, PLAAF is more interested in getting an aircraft that is good enough and can fill the numbers rather than the best possible aircraft that is 3 times as expensive. US could take a cue from that. And it goes for the other high profile trainers like T-50 and Yak-130 too. Why spend that much money on a trainer when a two seater of a 4th generation plane is far better for training?

Semi-Lobster

Well the T-50 is taking a similar route with the F/A-50 being developed right now but I think I agree, with the advancements in training simulator software extremely capable and expensive training aircraft that are only slightly less expensive than the aircraft they are training for are not as useful as they once were. Is flight training software advanced enough to solely train a pilot though? I'm not quiet convinced though, in the case of the relatively small PLANAF requirements for say, a carrierborne trainer, the L-15 probably most closely meet their requirements but for the PLAAF with such a massive fleet of aircraft, costs cutting mus be vitally important.

As for the LFC-16, my Chinese reading skills are pretty horrible, do you know if there was more to it than just some canards? Was it to have FBW instead of mechanical controls for example?

FriedRiceNSpice

Since JL-9 is also based on the basic J-7 airframe, mainly with modifications to the intake and forward fuselage, would it really have been necessary for the Chinese to pursue the LFC-16 and J-7FM simultaneously? Perhaps if they had chose to just fund one over the other from the get-go, then one of the two projects would've reached fruition. I guess in the end, they figured that either of the aircrafts would be competing for the same market as the FC-1, which already is a low-cost alternative to nations that cannot afford the F-16 or Mig-29. However, I still think that either of the aircraft would offer advantages in lower-cost as well as having Chinese made engines.

Side note- the F-5/T-38 would be an American example of an advanced trainer evolving into a combat fighter.

Semi-Lobster

The J-7MF project has been 'dead' for a while as far as everybody can tell(also it was a Chengdu project, LFC-16 is/was a Guizhou project IIRC). I don't really think though that the LFC-16 would really interfere with the FC-1 sales though. You could potentially buy 2 LFC-16s for 1 FC-1, also look at the countries considering the FC-1, Azerbaijan, Sudan etc. these are growing 3rd and 2nd world economies that can afford the FC-1, my guess is that the LFC-16 would be more marketed to very poor countries with little to no standing airforce such as Namibia who only a few years ago bought new F-7s. Of course though, from the looks of it, the LFC-16 is dead.

tphuang

I'm not sure if this accurate since I couldn't find an original link to this. Anyhow, it seems that JL-8 will appear in the 60th anniversary parade.

Probably the most interesting part here is on WS-11. We know that WS-11 is not as good as the original AI-25 engine, but it claims here that they've developed as WS-11A which has higher thrust and better service life and reliability than WS-11, so that it fulfills the military requirements. I don't know if this is true, but one of the big problems with JL-8 was the engine issue, but if WS-11A does much AI-25, then it's a significant upgrade.

It also talks about improved avionics on JL-8, but that's pretty routine stuff.

Semi-Lobster

About time this engine situation was worked out for the JL-8. I wonder what they would do to make the WS-11 (which is just a Ivchenko-Progress AI-25 as far as I know) 'better' though. Perhaps, they took a que from Ivchenko-Progress' AI-25TLSh variant.

Also news on updated JL-8 avionics is also interesting. Just what sort of avionics were updated?

tphuang

The problem is that the original WS-11 was just not as good as AI-25. It's kind of a common theme with Chinese engines, the specs are okay, but because it's so new and immature, it always has reliability issues. And in the case of WS-11, it couldn't even achieve the thrust performance of AI-25.

As for avionics, it says that it added MFDs (1 in the front and 2 at back). It also improved the navigation system support like numerous GNSS + TACAN + LORAN.

Semi-Lobster

So does anybody know more about this WS-11A? Is it merely a properly copied AI-25TLK or does it seem that there are any indications of any improvements?

tphuang

I don't know, it's weird, they never really talked about it before. It just suddenly popped up here, so I'm not sure how legitimate the news is.

tphuang

a while ago, Sri Lanka canceled a $200 million contract for Chinese firearms after the end of its conflict with the Tamils. This claims that it will use some of that money to buy 8 K-8s, three of which will replace existing K-8s that were lost in the conflict.

Semi-Lobster

I can see a lot more contracts like this now that Sri Lanka has been 'pacified' and can now focus its defence funds on more 'long term' investments like air force and navy.

Baibar of Jalat

Pakistan newspaper said it was both Chinese and Pakistani firearms.

feifei

L-15 is to be commended for its strong support for training PLAAF pilots,but it just cannot bring itself to supersonic beause its engine is not engine afterburner system.
here are link
ÕæʵµÄ»ÑÑÔƪ L-15 ¡°ÁÔÓ¥¡±»¹ÄÜË㳬ÒôËÙ½ÌÁ·»úô ¨C ÌúѪÍø

tphuang

首见山鹰的正式编号--歼教九！而非教练九或者高教九。。。
中航工业试飞院上半年在试飞风险科目多、试飞技术新、组织体系复杂、保障难度大、安全压力大的形势下，科研 工作主动座位、创新超越、多项工作稳步推进，各项重点科研试飞任务纷纷按节电、高质量的完成。歼教九飞机等 重点型号基本完成了设计定型试飞科目；完成2008级空军试飞员专业化培训开班及教学飞行；歼十飞机三名试 飞员完成尾旋训练；院庆飞行训练取得圆满成功；
ARJ21飞机101架机正是转场中航工业试飞院开始全面进入适航审定验证试飞阶段，ARJ21-700飞机102架圆满实施了首飞任务。

JL-9 is now JJ-9. That's its official PLA name It says that in the first half of this year, JJ-9 completed its design certification flight test programs. Also completed class of 2008 PLAAF pilot training