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JL-15 and other trainers

This is a discussion on JL-15 and other trainers within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Greetings: What is the reputation of L-11/K-8 in the PLAAF? Here in Venezuela there is talk that K-8/L-11 who has ...

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Old 06-09-2009   #211
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Greetings:

What is the reputation of L-11/K-8 in the PLAAF?

Here in Venezuela there is talk that K-8/L-11 who has a better engine, it will be true.
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Old 06-09-2009   #212
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by zuhe View Post
Greetings:

What is the reputation of L-11/K-8 in the PLAAF?

Here in Venezuela there is talk that K-8/L-11 who has a better engine, it will be true.
are you referring to L-15? There really isn't such thing as L-11. K-8 is really popular with PLAAF and PLANAF, they've had over 400 orders. L-15 is still on the drawing board. JL-9 has most of the orders so far. L-15's engine situation is a major problem right now. If they get that worked out, have the cost lowered, it might get orders from PLA.

btw, it looks like there was a crash recently with JJ-7 trainer. They really need more JL-9 or L-15 soon.
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Old 06-10-2009   #213
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

[QUOTE=tphuang;100686]are you referring to L-15? There really isn't such thing as L-11. QUOTE]

Actually there is such a thing as L-11. It is the K-8 with a Chinese engine (WS-11 turbofan) fitted on
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Old 06-18-2009   #214
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight Global
PARIS AIR SHOW: China promotes L-15 trainer at show
By Siva Govindasamy

China is promoting the Hongdu Aviation Industry L-15 advanced jet trainer at the show, pushing both the base version and a light attack variant to foreign customers.

The company has an aircraft model and a simulator that potential customers can use at its stand, and company officials were talking to air force officers from several countries.

Officials from Hongdu and its parent company China Aviation Industry (AVIC) declined to comment, but African countries such as Namibia and the Democratic Republic of Congo are among those believed to be interested in the L-15.

Hongdu has three prototypes of the twin-seat aircraft and a final configuration with the Ivchenko-Progress AL-222K-25F engine could be ready in 2010. Another version with an afterburner is expected to be primed in 2011 and a light attack version is being studied as well.
PARIS AIR SHOW: China promotes L-15 trainer at show

Interesting! I wonder when we get a few more cockpit simulator photos from this!
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Old 06-18-2009   #215
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Greetings:

Quote:
Evaluate the possibility of acquiring aircraft for the Air Force Asian Bolivarian

Caracas, Jun. 18 ABN .- In order to evaluate the status of projects signed between the Chinese aviation sector for the acquisition of aircraft in Asia, the Minister of People's Power for the Office of the President, Luis Reyes Reyes, was met with executives of the Corporation of the China Aviation Industry (AVIC) and the China National Corporation of Aerotecnología, Import and Export (Catic).

In an interesting meeting the vice president of Catic, Yng Yang reported that the contract signed with the Venezuelan government for the purchase of training aircraft K8, "moving with great success" and said that they are devoting every effort to ensure delivery in January 2010.

He assured that the project includes a package of logistics support of 3 years, after delivery, adding that the planes have a 1 year warranty and provide technical services throughout their life.

Also, with respect to the different aircraft which offers the aviation industry in china, the vice president and manager of the AVIC Catic, Li Yuhai, extended a cordial invitation to the Minister to visit the Republic of china, because "we can offer almost all types of aircraft, "he said.

In this context, Reyes Reyes reported that it expects to acquire in the future, a fleet of aircraft for the Military Aviation School of the Bolivarian National Armed Forces, to train fighter pilots and announced that the K8 is one of the .

Also, through a newsletter, said that Reyes is looking for an interim fighter aircraft such as the L15. However, he will be evaluated if it is necessary to increase the fleet, after having K8 aircraft and operate them for about 2 months.

With regard to the technical training of staff Venezuelan Yuhai Li said that the Republic of China is fully prepared to provide training, and added, "The school also has a training center for pilots", and in this regard is requested to articulate a Reunion with the authorities of the AVB to discuss the issue further.
Source: ABN
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Old 06-18-2009   #216
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

thanks for that article.

about L-15, this plane is going to face some serious issues. First of all, PLAAF doesn't want it for training because it's 3 times as expensive as JL-9. It might turn out to have better specs than JL-9, but JL-9 fulfills all of the needs of PLAAF in terms of LIFT. Second of all, there is so much problem with the development process and the engine issue on this plane. It has taken already 3 years and they need another 2 years before the first flight with afterburners? Com'on now. Just get something that's good enough and get it out of there. And there are a lot of talks about attack version, but how is it going to win that if it takes this long to develop, has no domestic engine options and can't compete against its nearest competitor JF-17? I'd bank my money on CAC over Hongdu any day of the week. It's more expensive and probably end up having less payload and range than JF-17.
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Old 06-19-2009   #217
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
thanks for that article.

about L-15, this plane is going to face some serious issues. First of all, PLAAF doesn't want it for training because it's 3 times as expensive as JL-9. It might turn out to have better specs than JL-9, but JL-9 fulfills all of the needs of PLAAF in terms of LIFT. Second of all, there is so much problem with the development process and the engine issue on this plane. It has taken already 3 years and they need another 2 years before the first flight with afterburners? Com'on now. Just get something that's good enough and get it out of there. And there are a lot of talks about attack version, but how is it going to win that if it takes this long to develop, has no domestic engine options and can't compete against its nearest competitor JF-17? I'd bank my money on CAC over Hongdu any day of the week. It's more expensive and probably end up having less payload and range than JF-17.
I guess thats why its being so heavily marketed for export. The article never mentioned anything about their evaluations and testing for the PLAAF (which is something they usually do for aircraft that are in development at these sort of expos) and only talks about overseas sales. And by looking at the list of countries 'interested' in the L-15 you notice that none of them HAVE any advanced aircraft that they need training for. Obviously they are looking for a light attack aircraft rather than a LIFT trainer, which is something the JL-9 could once again do, for cheaper and could easily be modified into an actual light fighter unlike the L-15 who is stuck with its Ukrainian engines.

There is a demand for an advanced LIFT trainer, probably with the PLAN, but I think we can all agree with its large fleet of fighter pilots who must be retrained from older aircraft that make up the majority of the PLAAF to newer ones, that price is the major sticking point. The L-15 is certainly more advanced than the JL-9 but does that really matter anymore? Look at the Pilatus PC-21 that is marketed as a capable advanced LIFT trainer but its a turboprop aircraft that combines advanced software to simulate other aircraft.
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Old 06-19-2009   #218
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Hmm K-8 still doing strong, still pulling off some order now and again.
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Old 06-19-2009   #219
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

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Originally Posted by HKSDU View Post
Hmm K-8 still doing strong, still pulling off some order now and again.
Well now that I think about it, there aren't a whole lot of modern basic trainers around right now, theres the HAL HJT-36, Aermacchi MB-339, KAI KT-1 and T-6 Texan II and thats about it more or less for aircraft still being built. The market for basic/mid level trainers has really opened up since Hawk production ended.
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Old 06-19-2009   #220
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Hmm? I was under the impression that the JL-9 was aerodynamically unfit as a LIFT for 4G and beyond fighters. In fact, we all first thought that this was the reason that the L-15 has a shot before. You can't really turn a J-7 rooted design into a LIFT for 4G fighters by just adding a more powerful engine and FBW.

Marketing it as a LIFT for the FC-1 would be OK, but as a LIFT for 4G fighters would be ironic.

Basic trainers like the K-8 tend to sell for a long time because there is a very strict criteria for them and thus designs tend to live very long.
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Old 06-19-2009   #221
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I thought L-15 will eventually have a domestic engine? There was report of Chinese side license produce Ukrarine engines but progress was very slow. Final goal will be Chinese side able to produce 100% of L-15.
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Old 06-19-2009   #222
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

A group of photos showing American F-16 pilot test fly the L-15 flight simulator at Paris Airshow.

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/sl...0_295.html#p=1

Last edited by SteelBird; 06-19-2009 at 05:11 AM. Reason: Add link
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Old 06-19-2009   #223
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumdud View Post
Hmm? I was under the impression that the JL-9 was aerodynamically unfit as a LIFT for 4G and beyond fighters. In fact, we all first thought that this was the reason that the L-15 has a shot before. You can't really turn a J-7 rooted design into a LIFT for 4G fighters by just adding a more powerful engine and FBW.

Marketing it as a LIFT for the FC-1 would be OK, but as a LIFT for 4G fighters would be ironic.

Basic trainers like the K-8 tend to sell for a long time because there is a very strict criteria for them and thus designs tend to live very long.
This entire thread has a lot of good posts by tphuang dissecting all the information about the L-15 and so far, it seems that the L-15 isn't the silver bullet a lot of analyst thought it would be for the PLAAF. Its a good aircraft for sure but its future is still up in the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion
I thought L-15 will eventually have a domestic engine? There was report of Chinese side license produce Ukrarine engines but progress was very slow. Final goal will be Chinese side able to produce 100% of L-15.
Thats the long term goal but, like the J-10 or the J-11 have proven, may take a long, long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBird
A group of photos showing American F-16 pilot test fly the L-15 flight simulator at Paris Airshow.

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/sl...0_295.html#p=1

Its nice to see but the article seems to focus more on the American pilot than the actual simulator itself!
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Old 07-02-2009   #224
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

I've been reading up on the LFC-16/CY-1 light fighter recently (it seems to me like a miltarised JL-9) and noticed that it hasn't really been mentioned at all for years. Did this project go the same way as the J-7MF?
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Old 07-02-2009   #225
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Re: JL-15 and other trainers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
I've been reading up on the LFC-16/CY-1 light fighter recently (it seems to me like a miltarised JL-9) and noticed that it hasn't really been mentioned at all for years. Did this project go the same way as the J-7MF?
pretty much, anything that appears in airshow that early on is basically trying to get export orders. If they don't get it, it's pretty much end of the project.
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