SinoDefence Forum

zuhe

Greetings:

What is the reputation of L-11/K-8 in the PLAAF?

Here in Venezuela there is talk that K-8/L-11 who has a better engine, it will be true.

tphuang

are you referring to L-15? There really isn't such thing as L-11. K-8 is really popular with PLAAF and PLANAF, they've had over 400 orders. L-15 is still on the drawing board. JL-9 has most of the orders so far. L-15's engine situation is a major problem right now. If they get that worked out, have the cost lowered, it might get orders from PLA.

btw, it looks like there was a crash recently with JJ-7 trainer. They really need more JL-9 or L-15 soon.

rhino123

[QUOTE=tphuang;100686]are you referring to L-15? There really isn't such thing as L-11. QUOTE]

Actually there is such a thing as L-11. It is the K-8 with a Chinese engine (WS-11 turbofan) fitted on

Semi-Lobster

PARIS AIR SHOW: China promotes L-15 trainer at show

Interesting! I wonder when we get a few more cockpit simulator photos from this!

zuhe

Greetings:

Source: ABN

tphuang

thanks for that article.

about L-15, this plane is going to face some serious issues. First of all, PLAAF doesn't want it for training because it's 3 times as expensive as JL-9. It might turn out to have better specs than JL-9, but JL-9 fulfills all of the needs of PLAAF in terms of LIFT. Second of all, there is so much problem with the development process and the engine issue on this plane. It has taken already 3 years and they need another 2 years before the first flight with afterburners? Com'on now. Just get something that's good enough and get it out of there. And there are a lot of talks about attack version, but how is it going to win that if it takes this long to develop, has no domestic engine options and can't compete against its nearest competitor JF-17? I'd bank my money on CAC over Hongdu any day of the week. It's more expensive and probably end up having less payload and range than JF-17.

Semi-Lobster

I guess thats why its being so heavily marketed for export. The article never mentioned anything about their evaluations and testing for the PLAAF (which is something they usually do for aircraft that are in development at these sort of expos) and only talks about overseas sales. And by looking at the list of countries 'interested' in the L-15 you notice that none of them HAVE any advanced aircraft that they need training for. Obviously they are looking for a light attack aircraft rather than a LIFT trainer, which is something the JL-9 could once again do, for cheaper and could easily be modified into an actual light fighter unlike the L-15 who is stuck with its Ukrainian engines.

There is a demand for an advanced LIFT trainer, probably with the PLAN, but I think we can all agree with its large fleet of fighter pilots who must be retrained from older aircraft that make up the majority of the PLAAF to newer ones, that price is the major sticking point. The L-15 is certainly more advanced than the JL-9 but does that really matter anymore? Look at the Pilatus PC-21 that is marketed as a capable advanced LIFT trainer but its a turboprop aircraft that combines advanced software to simulate other aircraft.

HKSDU

Hmm K-8 still doing strong, still pulling off some order now and again.

Semi-Lobster

Well now that I think about it, there aren't a whole lot of modern basic trainers around right now, theres the HAL HJT-36, Aermacchi MB-339, KAI KT-1 and T-6 Texan II and thats about it more or less for aircraft still being built. The market for basic/mid level trainers has really opened up since Hawk production ended.

sumdud

Hmm? I was under the impression that the JL-9 was aerodynamically unfit as a LIFT for 4G and beyond fighters. In fact, we all first thought that this was the reason that the L-15 has a shot before. You can't really turn a J-7 rooted design into a LIFT for 4G fighters by just adding a more powerful engine and FBW.

Marketing it as a LIFT for the FC-1 would be OK, but as a LIFT for 4G fighters would be ironic.

Basic trainers like the K-8 tend to sell for a long time because there is a very strict criteria for them and thus designs tend to live very long.

__________________

Give us a break. Don't try ranting at SDF.

Lion

I thought L-15 will eventually have a domestic engine? There was report of Chinese side license produce Ukrarine engines but progress was very slow. Final goal will be Chinese side able to produce 100% of L-15.

SteelBird

A group of photos showing American F-16 pilot test fly the L-15 flight simulator at Paris Airshow.

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/sl...0_295.html#p=1

Semi-Lobster

This entire thread has a lot of good posts by tphuang dissecting all the information about the L-15 and so far, it seems that the L-15 isn't the silver bullet a lot of analyst thought it would be for the PLAAF. Its a good aircraft for sure but its future is still up in the air.

Thats the long term goal but, like the J-10 or the J-11 have proven, may take a long, long time.


Its nice to see but the article seems to focus more on the American pilot than the actual simulator itself!

Semi-Lobster

I've been reading up on the LFC-16/CY-1 light fighter recently (it seems to me like a miltarised JL-9) and noticed that it hasn't really been mentioned at all for years. Did this project go the same way as the J-7MF?

tphuang

pretty much, anything that appears in airshow that early on is basically trying to get export orders. If they don't get it, it's pretty much end of the project.