JH-7/JH-7A Thread

[MIGleader]

we need a thread to discuss all things jh-7 related. like exactly what is the fate of the aircraft? will china build more jh-7as or upgrade the fighter even more before production? what new engine will an improved jh-7 fit?

[darth sidious]

What is the payload of JH-7a I heard is 9 tons but that seems a bit relastic but as the orignal is powered by speys riped out from Rafs phantoms could that be true

[jatt]

Originally Posted by darth sidious

What is the payload of JH-7a I heard is 9 tons but that seems a bit relastic but as the orignal is powered by speys riped out from Rafs phantoms could that be true

Probabily not. It looks heavier than the Jaquar and its a two seater.

[tphuang]

Let's just talk about JH-7A. Powered by 2 WS-9 engine right now. Which 9.8 kN of thrust using afterburners and a T/W ratio of 6.55.

It has 6500 KG of payload. Uses JL-10A as its radar, carries China's latest precision strike pods. It also launches YJ-83 as its ASM. I'm not sure if it supports PL-12.

As for upgrade, JH-7A actually underwent a huge upgrade from JH-7. It's entire cockpit is all modern now. Next upgrade could consist of redesigning the frame to allow for AL-31F/WS-10A engines.

[Gollevainen]

Well i have heard intresting rumour about that Jh-7 has something to do whit Yugoslavian-Romanina Orao attack plane. I heard that Romaninas, a good pals of china during that time (in the 70's) Were in hands of similar requirments and that orao was orginally mented to be a twin seat attacker whit twin SPEY engine arragments. Somehow, UK didnt want to sell military spey into Warsawpact nation and the co-operation prospect was cut of, Balkan nations were forced to stick whit tiny Viper, and China got their Speys elsewere. Also was mentioned that Unbuild Romanian IAR-95 jet fighter has some relations of similar Spey engined chinese unbuild projects.

Anyway, Orao an JH-7 has always got to my eye as very similar planes in concept (not in size) and if you take look of them, you find some similarityes...

And remember, this is just wild rumour, I dont believe it my slef 100%, but you never know...

[MIGleader]

Originally Posted by darth sidious

What is the payload of JH-7a I heard is 9 tons but that seems a bit relastic but as the orignal is powered by speys riped out from Rafs phantoms could that be true

9 tons should be a goal for the next jh-7 model to achieve. the jh-7a achived a 1.5 ton increase in weight carrying ability do to the more cpable engine and more use of polymers. but plane needs a whole engine altogether..would wsd-13 work? al-31 might be considered, but that would require a signifigant change to the entire airframe, and would hugely expensive.

anyways, is the next jh-7 going to be a su-34/jh-7 hybrid? china certainly has studied deeply into the su-34, and it would be a shame to see such a design wasted serving in small numbers in the russian af.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by MIGleader

9 tons should be a goal for the next jh-7 model to achieve. the jh-7a achived a 1.5 ton increase in weight carrying ability do to the more cpable engine and more use of polymers. but plane needs a whole engine altogether..would wsd-13 work? al-31 might be considered, but that would require a signifigant change to the entire airframe, and would hugely expensive.

If next generation of JH-7 is to assume the role of the primary attacker in PLAAF, then it will have to use AL-31F in the next variant. WS-13 is actually a superior engine, but it's much smaller in dimension than JH-7. Also, the next generation of JH-7 supposedly will be more stealthy.

Anyway, an article on China's next attacker:

搏杀中国新一代战轰机---揭三飞机集团的竞争

作者：风孤独
　　
　　重所周知，军用飞机特别是军用战斗飞机的利润比普通民用机要高很多，而且需求更稳定，因此，谁的飞机被 认可，谁就能获得巨大的利益和长期的兴旺，甚至能决定各厂商今后的命运。这点，从俄罗斯两家飞机巨头苏霍伊 和米高扬近年来的发展情况便知。 转自铁血 http://www.tiexue.net/
　　
　　因此，为了抢夺军用战机这快利润丰厚的蛋糕，早已觊觎西飞在战斗轰炸机市场上独占花魁局面的国内另两家 已经完成改制，要自负盈亏的飞机巨头成飞和沈飞，为了各自长久利益，利用自己研制军机历史经验的优势，必然 将在战斗轰炸机市场上与西飞飞豹一争雌雄。
　　
　　首先，沈飞自从引进SU-27生产线后，公司内部进行体制改革，打破大锅饭，逐步提高自主创新能力，其在SU-27基础上全新研制的歼11B型飞机，取代了俄罗斯提出的SU-27改进型方案，获得了极大的成功。而我国花大价购买的SU-30MKK战斗轰炸机即在SU-27基础上改进而来，并且在最近的央视曝光照中，我们清晰的看到了一架与SU-34及其类似的新型战斗轰炸机的身影，按照沈飞目前的实力和科研水平，沈飞基于歼11开发重型轰炸机参与竞 争几成定局，这款类似SU-34的机型将会对空军有巨大的诱惑，对飞豹A构成严重威胁。
　　
　　再看成飞，歼10的载弹量7吨，性能有目共睹。放眼全球，从以色列F-16 I到F-15E，从幻影2000-9到SU-30MKK，世界上目前使用的主力战斗轰炸机都由优秀的空优战机改型担当，而歼10双座已完成试飞，成飞搞 出歼10战斗轰炸型应该不是难事，其更好的机动性和更小的机身反射面， 将比现有的飞豹有更好的低空突防能力和空战生存能力。 转自铁血 http://www.tiexue.net/
　　
　　而目前西飞虽已取得空军订单，但其并未高枕无忧，而是玩命的改进，他们知道飞豹A并非完美，其机动性差 ，发动机推力不足，雷达对地探测能力有限等问题将会使其在未来竞争中处于不利地位，为了改变这种局面，只有 不断的改进，我们已可喜的看到了西飞新飞豹的模型，新的进气道和发动机，新的隐身设计等，足以说明他们的忧 患意识的。
　　
　　按以上分析来看，我国新型战斗轰炸机将可能在以上三种方案中产生
　　
　　类似SU-34的沈飞 新战轰，类似F-16I 的成飞歼10B和西飞的飞豹III
　　
　　是类似SU-34的新战轰好还是带隐身设计的飞豹III好，还是轻巧的歼十B好，或者高低搭配？限于篇幅，这个问题由网 友评述，但我国战机工业必将会在这场竞赛中，得到极大的发展。
　　
　　除了俄罗斯苏，米两家的例子，我想谁都不会忘了另一个竞争失败的例子，当年麦道最后不得不归附于波音， 除了其MD-90市场表现不佳外，在美国下一代战斗机计划中提前出局，也是重要的原因。

[crobato]

JH-7 is a much bigger aircraft than the Oreo. If you notice all the aircraft that used Rolls Royce engines, including the Jaguar, they seem to have certain similarities. But its most likely its all because all these aircraft are designed in the same generation when the Roll Royce engines were hot, and the design they have is sort of like the fashion trend then. Note aircraft design tends to follow trends like delta wings, variable geometry, canards, and now even stealth.

Yes, the JH-7A can use the PL-12. The company that made the PL-12 seeker is the same as the company that designed its radar. The PL-12, and PL-11 has been shown in the JH-7A mockup.

I'm not sure what the PLAAF's next attacker might look like. Some say an Su-32 look alike. I think CAC may be trying to offer its twin engined J-10 derivative instead. Unless XAC has their own proposals, but if they lose the business supplying attack jets, XAC might end up building purely commercial planes like its AJR-21 project.

[Gollevainen]

JH-7 is a much bigger aircraft than the Oreo. If you notice all the aircraft that used Rolls Royce engines, including the Jaguar, they seem to have certain similarities. But its most likely its all because all these aircraft are designed in the same generation when the Roll Royce engines were hot, and the design they have is sort of like the fashion trend then. Note aircraft design tends to follow trends like delta wings, variable geometry, canards, and now even stealth.

Ofcourse it is bigger, that's the hole point of those rumours...you see i said that Yugoslavia and romania were sticked to vipers wich requires the aircraft being quite small. in effect the Jh-7 is the plane (based on these rumours) that Orao orginally should have been...

[adeptitus]

IMO the JH-7 is not a fighter, and its ability to use the PL-12 AAM is of secondary importance. The primary reason to even field them is that the Russians don't like PLAAF using locally made AShM's on Sukhoi aircraft.

Like the newer F-15's that can carry 4 Harpoon's, the JH-7 can be equipped with 4 PRC-made AShM's, such as the YJ-82K for anti-shipping strike missions. A pair of JH-7's and unload 8x YJ-82K's against a ship from up to 120km away. OR, if the YJ-83 is avail, from as far as 250km away. Except for dedicated air defense ships, most warships today would not survive an attack from 8 anti-ship missiles.

If the Russians allowed the PLAAF to make source code modification to combat computer and use locally made munitions on Su-30's, then there would be less incentive to deploy the JH-7's.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by adeptitus

IMO the JH-7 is not a fighter, and its ability to use the PL-12 AAM is of secondary importance. The primary reason to even field them is that the Russians don't like PLAAF using locally made AShM's on Sukhoi aircraft.

Like the newer F-15's that can carry 4 Harpoon's, the JH-7 can be equipped with 4 PRC-made AShM's, such as the YJ-82K for anti-shipping strike missions. A pair of JH-7's and unload 8x YJ-82K's against a ship from up to 120km away. OR, if the YJ-83 is avail, from as far as 250km away. Except for dedicated air defense ships, most warships today would not survive an attack from 8 anti-ship missiles.

If the Russians allowed the PLAAF to make source code modification to combat computer and use locally made munitions on Su-30's, then there would be less incentive to deploy the JH-7's.

I think you are 100% correct here. Russia looses out big time, if China does not buy the missiles it produces like KH-31A and KH-59MK (which was pretty much developed for mkk2).

From this article, http://www.rense.com/general31/missle2.htm, I think it's clear that JH-7A can fire 250 KM YJ-83s. Although, I think the detection range of JL-10A vs destroyers is still not the greatest at the moment, so it would need to datalink with other fighters/AWACS/destroyers to make good use of the range of YJ-83s.

[MiG-29SMT]

Originally Posted by adeptitus

IMO the JH-7 is not a fighter, and its ability to use the PL-12 AAM is of secondary importance. The primary reason to even field them is that the Russians don't like PLAAF using locally made AShM's on Sukhoi aircraft.

Like the newer F-15's that can carry 4 Harpoon's, the JH-7 can be equipped with 4 PRC-made AShM's, such as the YJ-82K for anti-shipping strike missions. A pair of JH-7's and unload 8x YJ-82K's against a ship from up to 120km away. OR, if the YJ-83 is avail, from as far as 250km away. Except for dedicated air defense ships, most warships today would not survive an attack from 8 anti-ship missiles.

If the Russians allowed the PLAAF to make source code modification to combat computer and use locally made munitions on Su-30's, then there would be less incentive to deploy the JH-7's.

Interesting gossip well the orao and the JH-7 look quit similar but who knows

[tphuang]

Future of JH-7A?
中国飞豹战轰新计划大揭秘

　新飞豹分电战型、侦察型、伙伴加油型和常规战斗轰炸型 。
JH-7A, possibly different types for ECM, surveillence, tanker type and conventional fighter/bomber? That's weird.

　　电子战型新飞豹，能压制敌人雷达保护己方攻击轰炸编队，还能连续播撒红外干扰弹（燃烧镁球袋），当敌人 防空导弹锁定自己的时候，还可发射反辐射导弹攻击敌人雷达进行主动自卫；
The ECM version of JH-7A, I don't really take this seriously.
伙伴加油型新飞豹不但能超音速飞行还能为己方攻击编队提供油料。
　　常规战斗轰炸型新飞豹载油多，除了欢ǖ牡缱幼晕滥芰ΑＤ芰ト龊焱飧扇诺ㄈ忌彰厩虼揖弑缚 罩惺苡湍芰Γ患幼昂焱夤セ鞯醪蘸竽茉谝辜渫吨兰す庵频颊ǖ缘腥司反蚧骱驼妒祝荒芊⑸湫滦椭匦头唇⒌嫉 弑阜春侥改芰Γ荒芊⑸浞捶涞嫉セ鞯腥死状镎蟮兀荒芡吨谰分频嫉缡樱焱庵频颊ǖ偷嫉缘腥耸敌 芯反蚧骱驼妒祝荒芄煌吨拦叩迹牵校咏萘频颊ǖ凳┚反蚧骱驼妒祝

有些则是带精确制导的钻地炸弹。是唯一能投放巡航导弹精确打击或斩首的国产战斗机。飞行控制系统和火控系统 相交联，而且有角速度轰炸装置，根据各种传感器反馈，连续计算着弹点。飞行控制系统自动同步随动于火控系统 ，火控系统做了针对性改进：火控系统为原来的连续计算增加闭环和实时当前提前量算法。在投掷炸弹时为了提高 精度，准备投弹到投弹时的一段时间，有意增加降低了操纵系统灵敏度、钝化操纵系统和动态同步增 稳的手段.
precision bombing, this is the only domestic fighter capable of dropping cruise missile and precision bombs? radar control and flight control communicate. Shoot, this part seems to not make any sense to me.

即使投掷常规炸弹，精度也不低。数字四余度电传操纵系统机动更灵活，实现无顾虑驾驶。具备地形跟踪雷达，低 空飞行时，能够自动规避障碍物、测高雷达、红外导航掉舱（具备夜间超低空突袭能力）、和智能自动驾驶仪，两 套驾驶操纵系统，玻璃化座舱，语音提示，拥有惯导／ＧＰＳ／ＧＬＯＮＥＳＳ／北斗等综合导航装置，每个驾驶 员有3个以上多功能电脑显示屏，仪表显示更直观、傻瓜；驾驶员可轮换休息，大大减轻长距离、超低空飞行驾驶 员的疲劳和负荷。
Just talks about the accuracy in bombs is pretty high. It can autopilot at low altitude to avoid hitting things. It has two sets of pilotting control. voice display, glass cockpit. It can use GPS, GLONASS and BEIDOU navigation. Each pilot will have 3 or more MFD.

相关单位还专门设计了执行特殊任务的飞行服，方便飞行员可以在座舱内小便。具备多次空中加油，长途突袭的能 力。如果在中国新大预之间建立数据链，可以作到无线电静默导航，更是如虎添翼；可以说是全能攻击、压制机． 飞豹改进计划：飞机雷达系统改进，增加了与光电吊舱的接口和显示系统（未来飞豹将前视红外传感器镶入机头， 类似SU-27的设计）；使用新的机载计算机和内部数据传输系统，改进了电子对抗系统等；改进火控系统。使用头盔瞄准 具（雷达、红外和数字仪表的图、文符、号信息可传入头盔，不必经常盯着仪表。有利于降低空战和复杂条件驾驶 员的疲劳和负荷）
it uses new plane computer and processing system, improved ECM against jamming, improved fire control and HMs.

提高机动性能，使用中程空空导弹自卫。开发了“人性化驾驶系统â€�（因为个人差异和驾驶习惯不同，每 个人都是有差异的。以前飞行员同样是开飞豹，但是由于飞机个体差异，换了别人的飞机就非常不适应。新系统给 每个驾驶都有一个微型硬盘，里面针对这个驾驶员飞行习惯和特点记录了各种动作的传感器灵敏度等一系列驾驶参 数。以前要人适应飞机，现在可以让飞机适应人。即使是开别人的飞机只要用它，就像开自己的飞机 一样顺手。）
improved manuverability, uses MRAAM for self defense.

I'm not sure how much of this is true, seems a lot of rubbish, but I saw it, so I figure I will just post it anyhow.

[darth sidious]

Gollevainen

I did not find anything on the oreo? JH-7 but romania and Yugoslavia did help china with weapons in the 70s/80s example includ the T-72 tank and data on the Koni class frigate and some SA-3 missile later used to develop parts of the Hq-62

as for the JH-7 china consluted Yougslvia as they had some experince in operating western ground attack aircraft plus some info on the radar

[Sea Dog]

Originally Posted by tphuang

It can autopilot at low altitude to avoid hitting things. It has two sets of pilotting control. voice display, glass cockpit.

radar control and flight control communicate. Shoot, this part seems to not make any sense to me.

Very interesting to say the least. Sounds to me like a terrain following radar/auto-pilot. Very handy in low-level bombing missions. This is one of the things that gives the JH-7 the all-weather capability.

But what do they mean by voice display?