J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Of course, the J-20 has to fight with other PLAAF priorities, like missile defense (if 2nd Artillery doesn't get it), UAVs, transport aircraft, hypersonic research, bombers, next generation SAMs and so forth.

Originally Posted by jackliu

I highly doubt that China is cannibalizing one project to fund another, they are not lacking money due to the global economy, if anything global economy slowing down will mean more domestic spending to pick up the slack, and when you invest in military R&D it benefits more than just military, countless civilian laboratories, University, research facilities will receive contracts. As I have said before China's military spending on GDP is less than 2% vs 4% for US, so more spending for China on military will actually help the economy rather than hurts it.

Also, there is one concept that you still hold which is false, you still think that money is a finite resources, that there is only limited amount, that would be true if the money is based on natural resources such as silver or gold, however as of right now, all money in all of world's government are Fiat money, which means the value of one type of money is only depending on the value of another, and all government in theory can print infinite amount of money to do whatever they want, such as stimulate the economy, induce inflation etc... Which is actually exactly what China and US are doing right now, while all nation trying to play games that benefit themselves, but in the end it is the normal people like you and me suffers, but that is another story. All I want you to know is money today is not the money in the old days anymore, so don't use the same standard to judge the past to the present.

As we are seeing less activity for J-20, I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with lack of money, or rather, they are in the stage of testing that is more have to do with system integration rather than aerodynamic testing like we have seem for the past year.

You are making a valid point and seem to grasp most of the equation, so although the amount of money is limited by the federal reserve, and they can print more money, when they do so it devalues the currency already in circulation, because in reality, that money represents assets or holdings of wealth. So the value of assets is finite unless you go dig up some gold, or melt down your iron and make a hammer. When a country begins to print moneys in excess of its holdings it destabilizes not only its economy, but all other economies whose currencies are tied to the dollar for instance. So in the US today, Obama bucks are worth less than your old nasty Bush bucks because gasoline is twice as high as it was four years ago, and foodstuffs in general are at least twice as high and sometimes more, so in just these two areas most Americans are spending twice as much for fuel and food as they were, which is inflation, even though our govt doensn't count food or energy costs when it figures inflation. The govt doesn't "create wealth", business and citizens create wealth and the govt taxes that wealth in order to pay for the services it provides, so you are right, things have changed, and we are all spending more of our wealth on fuel, food , and healthcare, but that is far more preferable than having the govt "Manage" healthcare, because they will simply take more of my wealth and yours to pay for somebody elses healthcare, and pay our Drs. less to do more.

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

You are making a valid point and seem to grasp most of the equation, so although the amount of money is limited by the federal reserve, and they can print more money, when they do so it devalues the currency already in circulation, because in reality, that money represents assets or holdings of wealth. So the value of assets is finite unless you go dig up some gold, or melt down your iron and make a hammer. When a country begins to print moneys in excess of its holdings it destabilizes not only its economy, but all other economies whose currencies are tied to the dollar for instance. So in the US today, Obama bucks are worth less than your old nasty Bush bucks because gasoline is twice as high as it was four years ago, and foodstuffs in general are at least twice as high and sometimes more, so in just these two areas most Americans are spending twice as much for fuel and food as they were, which is inflation, even though our govt doensn't count food or energy costs when it figures inflation. The govt doesn't "create wealth", business and citizens create wealth and the govt taxes that wealth in order to pay for the services it provides, so you are right, things have changed, and we are all spending more of our wealth on fuel, food , and healthcare, but that is far more preferable than having the govt "Manage" healthcare, because they will simply take more of my wealth and yours to pay for somebody elses healthcare, and pay our Drs. less to do more.

Well hate to break the news to you, the printing started long before Obama, or Bush. I am not a fan of Obama or Republican party, to me all of them are controlled by the same corporate interest, no matter who get elected it will really have no effect on the people. So you got to open your mind and go beyond the party politics, and see who is really in charge, because the way you think, is actually exactly how they want you to think, hate 1 party/person, vote the other one, he messed it up again, and the other one gets in power again, repeat and repeat.... main while nothing really changes, however each cycle of disappointments only votes in the opposite party. The real question you got to ask is, under the destructive economic policy for the past 12 years, who is receiving the most benefit from it? Answer this, and you will understand everything.

Oh and, I won't blame US presidents for printing money, the truth is the Federal reserve is the one doing it, and the guy in charge now was appointed under Bush, also the guy before him who started the bubble worked under both the older Bush and Clinton.

You guys are getting very off topic. Stop now while you still can.

Originally Posted by T-U-P

You guys are getting very off topic. Stop now while you still can.

Right, sorry, my point is that the current economic downturn has likely taken some of the urgency off of getting the J-20 into production, as the perceived threat has been diminished, which is why the Raptor was cancelled here in the US, as there appeared to be no imminent fifth gen threat. I think it must be some conspiracy to promote world peace.

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

Right, sorry, my point is that the current economic downturn has likely taken some of the urgency off of getting the J-20 into production, as the perceived threat has been diminished, which is why the Raptor was cancelled here in the US, as there appeared to be no imminent fifth gen threat. I think it must be some conspiracy to promote world peace.

I think there's always a need for 5th gen fighters even during peace time. They could do stealth air reconnaissance mission plus evaluating a possible future enemy radar strength and effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Equation

I think there's always a need for 5th gen fighters even during peace time. They could do stealth air reconnaissance mission plus evaluating a possible future enemy radar strength and effectiveness.

I agree sir, I am the #1 Raptor fan and love the little ATF, and I am a big J-20, T-50 fan as well. I love seeing how differently they look in spite of their common purpose, and while they do have similarities, they are each one quite unique and reflect each countries unique concerns and strengths. I actually believe that military strength is the only guarantee of peace in our nation, and believe some measure of parity is the simplest means to keep somebody from doing something stupid, and does contribute immensly to a stable climate world over. Now, they are all gorgeous and represent each countries very best. I do believe that the world wide economic situation will continue to get progressively worse, unless a policy shift is implemented quickly.

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

Nah, I doubt many politicians look like Mother Teresa, she was cute and loved babies, quite unlike those who favor abortion for population control. So lets just stay on topic, my point is that approx 80 million Americans are unemployed due to many of our present regimes policies, that has placed the US in a financially precarious condition that we will not be able to "borrow" our way out of, and yes it is affecting the Chinese economy since we are most likely the largest consumer of their export products. That will affect the J-20 and its developement, which seems to have lost some of the ardor it previously held, I believe in large part, the cancelation of the Raptor has taken some of the "rush" off of getting the J-20 in the air and into LRIP. Much of those resources are likely now being channeled into the ex Varyag, and her sea trials, which is seen as a much higher priority IMHO at present. As a result the J-20 while still a priority seems to be on a "back burner", while the Varyag for obvious reasons is a much higher priority. What "peace time" are you referencing, it seems we are quite up to our keesters in "fun"?

Brat, were is the advantage in stretching out the development of J-20? It means firing people who are now working on the project to do what? Also I don't see any evidence of it and I think there wouldn't be any evidence if it were true. As for ex Varyag the work seems to go with all deliberate speed. And the next flattop, it seems, will be ordered after the first experience with landing on and launching a J-15, also with all due deliberation.
OT
From this side of the Atlantic there is very little to distinguish the policies of Obama and his predecessor. The US left Iraq at the time chosen by the younger Bush. They both spent 50% more money than comes into the Treasury and in the next four years we'll see the same, whoever wins the next election. The policy now is to keep interest rates ridiculously low, thus subsidizing the banks and robbing the pensioners and future pensioners.
It seems only Japan has decided, after twenty years of spending as if there were no tomorrow, that perhaps it might be worthwhile to try another policy.

Found this from another online article reference, thought it may interest some:


"Double Windows Searching Algorithm for Fast Moving Point Target Detection Under Moving Background"
动背景中高速掠过点目标的双窗口捕捉算法
http://d.wanfangdata.com.cn/Periodic...200902009.aspx

Don't have access for the actual article though.

Paper was published in 2009, so might have something to do with optical detection systems for next gen. aircrafts.
My guess is that double windows simply implies comparing two snapshots in rapid succession, rumours has it that the new 360 coverage optical systems can do auto target detection.

Originally Posted by delft

Brat, were is the advantage in stretching out the development of J-20? It means firing people who are now working on the project to do what? Also I don't see any evidence of it and I think there wouldn't be any evidence if it were true. As for ex Varyag the work seems to go with all deliberate speed. And the next flattop, it seems, will be ordered after the first experience with landing on and launching a J-15, also with all due deliberation.
OT
From this side of the Atlantic there is very little to distinguish the policies of Obama and his predecessor. The US left Iraq at the time chosen by the younger Bush. They both spent 50% more money than comes into the Treasury and in the next four years we'll see the same, whoever wins the next election. The policy now is to keep interest rates ridiculously low, thus subsidizing the banks and robbing the pensioners and future pensioners.
It seems only Japan has decided, after twenty years of spending as if there were no tomorrow, that perhaps it might be worthwhile to try another policy.

Sure looks like things have slowed down to me, and I never said they were firing people, I said it is a good thing not to be in an insane rush, or you might end up with a mess like we had with the F-35, and have to bring them back and rebuild them in a few years. And if you haven't noticed the global slowdown in all our economies, why would you expect to notice any difference between George W. and BHO. If you want an unbiased opinion, why don't you pm Jeff Head or bd popeye, I know these two gentlemen would explain it with far more eloquence and patience than I? Actually you might want to avoid criticising those whom you obviously don't understand? I don't think I have ever criticised your little country, your constant US bashing makes you look, sophisticated? worldly? wise? smart? or none of the above?

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

Sure looks like things have slowed down to me, and I never said they were firing people, I said it is a good thing not to be in an insane rush, or you might end up with a mess like we had with the F-35, and have to bring them back and rebuild them in a few years. And if you haven't noticed the global slowdown in all our economies, why would you expect to notice any difference between George W. and BHO. If you want an unbiased opinion, why don't you pm Jeff Head or bd popeye, I know these two gentlemen would explain it with far more eloquence and patience than I? Actually you might want to avoid criticising those whom you obviously don't understand? I don't think I have ever criticised your little country, your constant US bashing makes you look, sophisticated? worldly? wise? smart? or none of the above?

I have noticed the economic developments. I was warned, by a Dutch economic commentator, of the trouble with the US sub-prime mortgages from about 2003. And I saw that the measures taken by the BHO administration were very similar to those of the GWB administration: in favor of the financial "industry" and pretty useless for people living outside. I see the same policies practised in the UK and in Europe and there too they don't solve the problems. Look at what is happening with Greece, Spain, Italy and Ireland. And your free to criticise my country. I'm afraid today's elections will not lead to a better government.

They say it flew extensively these few days.

wow, that is one of best pics for weapons bay length analysis to date. even if we assume only 2,9 meter long small bay - which is basically as short as the WVR missile itself, the main weapon bay is 4,25 meters long. But since it is probable longer, as the bay should be a bit longer than the missile itself, the main bay may be over 4,3 or even 4,4 meters long.

BTW, using 3 meter long wvr weapons bay, entire fuselage length is 19,1 meters. That is with the engine nozzles but without any overhang of those side structures around the engines and without tail overhang. And of course without test pitot tube.

Originally Posted by Schumacher

They say it flew extensively these few days.

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