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J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

This is a discussion on J-20... The New Generation Fighter II within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Two is what we see, but could be more. Although it is entirely possible that they disassembled the plane and ...

  1. #1636
    no_name is offline Senior Member
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Two is what we see, but could be more.
    Although it is entirely possible that they disassembled the plane and fly it out. But CAC by now should be amongst the hottest surveyed site in the world.

  2. #1637
    Centrist is offline Member
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by no_name View Post
    Two is what we see, but could be more.
    Although it is entirely possible that they disassembled the plane and fly it out. But CAC by now should be amongst the hottest surveyed site in the world.
    If the plane was tested a few times out west, they would be confident enough to fly it at night at this point. It might have been flown in to Chengdu for Gate's visit, put on show, then flown back out in the cover of night to resume testing.

  3. #1638
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by MwRYum View Post
    It'd be risky to fly a radar-less prototype at night, but it ain't impossible to have it disassemble into blocks and ship out in container trucks or flew it out on an Il-76, all done during night time, no?
    Why would it be more risky to fly a stealth jet at night compared to day time?

    Night testing of a stealth fighter is hardly unprecedented, just look at the F117.

    If stealth was an issue, radar reflectors could be added with almost no effort.

  4. #1639
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    Thumbs down Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by plawolf View Post
    Why would it be more risky to fly a stealth jet at night compared to day time?

    Night testing of a stealth fighter is hardly unprecedented, just look at the F117.

    If stealth was an issue, radar reflectors could be added with almost no effort.
    Why would it NOT more risky to fly at night? Even for a tested airplane, flying at night is more risky due to limited visibility and need to rely on instrumentation. In a unexpected situation such as a sudden burst of wind, that will be critical.

    Testing aircraft is even worse, because if everything is expected, then you won't need testing. Take off and landing due to unexpected events or damage will be much harder due to limited visibility. In air, it will be much harder for the chase aircraft to inspect damage, unexpected vibration/flutter due to limited visibility.

    In another word, don't try it unless you have a even more compelling reason to do so.

  5. #1640
    pugachev_diver is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    I'm still wondering if J-20 is still in the Chengdu facility where it took its flight. I think it's probably there, but no new photos emerge becuase the fans are simply no longer as interested. The heat kind of cooled down.

  6. #1641
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by pugachev_diver View Post
    I'm still wondering if J-20 is still in the Chengdu facility where it took its flight. I think it's probably there, but no new photos emerge becuase the fans are simply no longer as interested. The heat kind of cooled down.
    So new photos aren't coming out because watchers aren't as interested?? Aye? You'd think it was the other way round...
    I dont see why the prototype would still be on the hangar--this is a very important project and Chengdu are not famous for being so incompetent--unless there's another prototype somewhere else flying or If the current one has massive issues, the latter of which I find doubtful.

  7. #1642
    pugachev_diver is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Anyone thinks that there will be vectoring plates added later on? Would this change the flight characteristics of the plane?

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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    My point of view is that, after the 'official' first flight + many others N times of flights, now the J-20 is being modified for the data collected and perhaps just to perfect it further. It might just be waiting for another good chance to show up again, only that this time is a more perfect prototype.

    Possible next date of significant:

    - this coming July 1st; the 90th anniversary of formation of CPC.
    - this coming August 1st; the 84th year PLA is formed.
    - this coming October 1st; the 62th national day.

    But the national day hypothesis is unlikely since PLA paraded its finest weaponary on the 60th national day parade, thus we might not see another grand military parade until 2019 since the trend of grand military parades of PLA only occurs once every 10 years... Please correct me if I am wrong on the parade thing.

  9. #1644
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by pugachev_diver View Post
    Anyone thinks that there will be vectoring plates added later on? Would this change the flight characteristics of the plane?
    Plates? Do you mean thrust vector control nozzles? They'll add extra weight to the plane, but I imagine they shouldn't be too significant overall and should be more than compensated for by the extra maneuverability it offers.
    Most people expect J-20 to have some form of tvc with the WS-15 engines but its not certain if it will be 2d f22 type or the more conventional 3d type... Opinion seems to lean to the latter as of now

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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bltizo View Post
    Plates? Do you mean thrust vector control nozzles? They'll add extra weight to the plane, but I imagine they shouldn't be too significant overall and should be more than compensated for by the extra maneuverability it offers.
    Most people expect J-20 to have some form of tvc with the WS-15 engines but its not certain if it will be 2d f22 type or the more conventional 3d type... Opinion seems to lean to the latter as of now
    I thought 2D was conventional and 3D was 'exotic'?

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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    times change. with more Russian gen 4.5's getting them they become more available. the problem with the 3D nozzles is they are not very stealthy. cylinders and spheres reflect radar very well.
    There is no great genius without a mixture of madness.
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  12. #1647
    defaultuser1 is offline New Member
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Is there any significant to the date or number 1/11 in China? I notice they test many things on that date. They had the antisatellite test, midcourse missile interception and J-20 test all on that date in the past years.

  13. #1648
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    The advantage of a 3D nozzle is that you can finally get rid of those annoying Vertical rudders and make a pure flying wing.

    however it would still be pretty limited in how much yawing moment that can generate.

    F-22's fin sizing was really conservative.

  14. #1649
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    no,
    but since I guess the space people did it on 1/11.
    avic just couldn't take it and has to respond

    there was always this comparison/rivalry between space and aero programs in the chinese system...

    I guess it is just the "middle finger" date.

  15. #1650
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    Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Why would it NOT more risky to fly at night? Even for a tested airplane, flying at night is more risky due to limited visibility and need to rely on instrumentation. In a unexpected situation such as a sudden burst of wind, that will be critical.
    The best you can come up with is wind?

    And what you are describing is only applicable to inexperienced novice pilots. Test pilots are anything but novices and would be able to fly instruments only at night as easily as they can in daytime.

    Testing aircraft is even worse, because if everything is expected, then you won't need testing. Take off and landing due to unexpected events or damage will be much harder due to limited visibility. In air, it will be much harder for the chase aircraft to inspect damage, unexpected vibration/flutter due to limited visibility.
    Know many kinds of birds that fly at night instead if sleeping? That is the most likely cause of damage that can be sustained in the air, the only other remotely likely scenario would be a collision with a chase plane.

    Unexpected vibrations/flutter does not develop suddenly and without reason. If the plane flew fine during daytime, it will fly the same at night provided you don't do anything you haven't tried out before.

    All of your examples are far fetched to say the least, and already debunked by the fact that the F117 did most of its test program in the dark. It is a fact, not theory. What more, no-one is saying the J20 is going to such lengths. However, if the plane really has already had at the very least developed a basic flight envelop elsewhere before being showcased at CAC as I have been suggesting all along, it would not be much of a risk to fly the plane in at night for the 'first flight' display, and then fly it out again under the cover of darkness to a proper fly test facility where the real work could continue.

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