SinoDefence Forum

Chairman Hu

Okie like it said by the titles, what about the J-11B and such that will roll out of production

China WILL mass-produce instead of India relying on purchase, the J-11B will be of SAC's own piece of art

My point here is to state what will the J-11 be based with, not on.

The Su-27 is worth an unsatisfactory rank, The Su-30MKK is deployed just as attack planes also able to fire the R-77.

I know the original J-11A is just a copy of the Su-27SK, but since China is just going to produce itz own, will it be based with the Su-34, 35, 37? (34 for a twin seat modifed for attack role)

MadMax

this is exactly what ive been thinking for a while china has the basic airframe and production rights if they can build J 11 then they can uppgrade and modify it to there needs

AssassinsMace

J-11s aren't copies. They're Su-27 kits made in Russia and assembled in China. The components are China's decision.

MIGleader

well, j-11b may come out anywhere from 2015 or so. the chinese are already testing a new radar, and avionics suite, to support a more multirole mission. and they plan to use ws-10a. some j-11s are already modified to fire r-77, anjd there is no reason that these j-11bs cant fire r-77 or pl-12.

put on canards!!!!!

Gauntlet

I doubt that China has blueprints to build the advanced Fullbacks or even just Flanker-Es.

The Fullback have not even entered service in the VVS, and I belive China would not prioritize building an such advanced plane so "early" in their Flanker history.
My two cents goes to building more Su-30MKK and Su-30MK2s and 3s.

Oh, and throw out a couple of hundreds of the smaller J-10s for use as primary fighter.

MIGleader

uhhhh...
ok. the chinese have already stopped ordering mkks and mkk2s since the plane wansnt so great. the mkk3 was cancelled. China has been operating flankers since 1992, giving them 14 years of experience!. plus, theyt have been co producing su-27s since 96. there already are chinese posters claiming that china is building an aircraft based on the fullback.

the russians are getting 6 fullbacks next year.

Gauntlet

So you realy think the PLAAF should start producing advanced Fullbacks and Flanker-Es all by themself?

MIGleader

yeah. russian assistance might be needed, but the plaaf can manage it

Gauntlet

Have they even produced MKK and MK2s themself?
AFAIK, they have only produced relativly simple Flanker-Bs themself, and that was even with finished Russian blueprints.

My suggestion is to let the Russian do the job for them.

It would take up to much time and money to start a new developement of the Fullback and Flanker-E all by themself.

tphuang

the issue is not whether they have produced MKK and MK2 by themselves. In no certain terms, certain plaaf pilots have called these planes "a piece of crap". I won't go that far, but they are certainly not worth the money that paid for them.

As for J-11B, they've started production of J-11B with the successful launch of WS-10A. Check the photo on CDF. It better be out before 2015, we should already have J-12 and possibly J-14 in service by then.

As for J-11B, it's supposed to be developed to at least the su-27smk standard. That's why China is not interested in the su-27smk upgrades.

As for fullbacks, China is trying to develop something in the class of fullbacks, but who really knows when it will be finished? We just know from kanwa that it has started this project. Personally, I think plaaf needs to purchase su-34/35bm for the time being.

Gauntlet

Thank you for that informative reply, but I do wonder on one thing.

If some pilots call them "pieces of crap", what exactly are they whining about?

On paper, the MKK and MK2s seems good enough. Is there some kind of production error on the Chinese batch, or is it just something about the overall quality the Russian built them with?

tphuang

The problem with MKK stems mainly from the quality of these planes:
1. The A2A combat ability really didn't improve too much from su-27sk. There was a slight upgrade in radar in terms of detection range and target tracking, but the radar was still not even slotted array. The only major improvement is the ability to fire R-77.
2. The A2G ability is supposed to be the money maker of the mkk/mk2s. However, that did not get delivered as expected. If you know about the SAPSAN-E pod problem. The Russians took so long to develop it, that China developed its own pod. Another issue is that it cannot launch any of the Chinese AShM or LACMs.

Chairman Hu

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Okie this is the reason why I didnt put the MKKs here, the MKK was to replace or serve along with the Q-5 in attack missions and hold power to defend themselves in the air with the R-77, and the MKK2 is for martime patrol... SO PLZ NO MORE MKK/2 TALKS!

Look Gauntlet, if you don't have faith in Chinese weapons, I can't blame you, this is the period of time where China is still behind, in comparison to the Americans, Russians, or just the Europeans, of course China's indigious weapon production suck, I admit it, right now, China's weapons aren't that great since they use to follow too much of another country's design, in many cases, Russian. Can you at least give us the benefit of the doubt, I mean, we at least deserve that right? China is moving out of that "follower" era and already building weapons by her own tech, not with someone's help. Also, China has been frozen for over 20 years or so, you should be surprised on how well China is recovering.

Back on topic...
If China can get far enough to the fullback, most likely SAC will put it this way...
J-11A - 1st line air superiority
J-11B - Air dominance with CONSIDERABLE ground attack power, but mostly AIR TO AIR
J-11C - Su-33 based to take off Chinese carriers, China's own naval flanker
J-11D - Su-32/34 based, replace all of the Q-5 and MKK

Okie to tell you the truth, the credit goes to Dongfeng, I just added on to his idea, I put the J-11B as air dominance because there could be another version SAC and modify into (like Sukhoi) for true attack mode, this is a rather of opinion, to tell you the truth, I rather have the J-10 be built all "B" modes for ground attack so there isn't a "D" mode up in my chart, or we can just cross it out and leave the J-XX as the TRUE air-superiority plane. (Since every country must have a dedicated air to air fighter)

If I can choose the frame for the plane, Id choose the Su-35 (Su-27M), the plane is said to be able for ground attack already so China can save time on that, and already can carry 14? missiles, so change the radar, other systems, and the missile codes to Chinese, and the "basic" concept is done, SAC will have to work the hard parts out...

Heres the part of interchangable parts to come into play, if a J-11B is easy built and easy modified (hopefully), we should see the other versions roll out in production around the same length of time as the Russian counterpart, maybe faster b/c China has money

okie maybe I am starting to rant a bit TOO much...

sumdud

He's from Norway.

The J-11B will probably be more of a "radar plane" using primarily its radar for things. Air superiority will most likely be the #1 role with the PL-11, 12, and the SRAAMs.(PL-8 and definitely the the PL-5. They say a new SRAAM is being designed, eh?) It can commit ASM roles w/ C-801/2/Xs, and maybe ARM attacks with the YJ-91.

But its future will not be as fond as most expect. You have the the J-10 already doing the same thing(But at a shorter range most likely) while the J-XX is building built. I think it will remain with only 10 HP, but with MLU.

__________________

Give us a break. Don't try ranting at SDF.

vincelee

MKK/MK2 replacing and complementing the Q-5? Q-5's primary role was air interdiction with a secondary CAS function, not to mention the originally envisioned tactical nuclear payload delivery. MKK STILL does not have a full ground precision capability, I'm not sure about the MK2. Talking about replacing or complementing the Q-5, I think you should be looking in the direction of the WZ-10.