just see this and .............
This is a discussion on Fc-20 = J-10? within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by khanasifm AFM June/July 07 ACM Interview and I quote "Some people call it J-10 and we FC-20" ...
By 2015 I think the JF-17 will be quite close to the Block-52+ in terms of ECM/EW and radar performance - perhaps found in an AESA system? Of course PAF can have J-10 equipped with better avionics, ECM/EW, radar, etc, by then - but what about range, payload...what about things like super-cruise or a stealthier airframe?
Right now FC-20 is not included in the 2012 fleet, so it is probably included in the 2015 or at the latest 2019. By then we should expect IAF to have their MRCA and Su-30MKIs further enhanced. Another factor Pakistani planners should be taking note of is possible future confrontation with the U.S.. I think the projection of FC-20 is more or less a 4.5 generation fighter that equals the air-to-air performance or Rafale and Typhoon.
IMO PAF wants FC-20 to be equipped with as many Chinese systems as possible. Besides the relative cost factor compared to European counterparts, it also provides Pakistan with a solid wild card that neither IAF or USAF would entirely know about.
I think we need to realize that had it not been for the military and economic sanctions in the 1990s, the PAF would have inducted a good number of 4th generation fighters, BVRAAM, AEW&C and IFR by now. The PAF has been studying these concepts since the late 1970s...no doubt it'll be doing the same now IMO. Had today's China been there in 1992, these things would certainly be in Pakistan's arsenal. Pakistan kept with the times in the 1970s with the induction of Mirage III/Vs and in the 1980s with F-16s.
If the opportunity is there in China, I personally think PAF will do what it can to be in the same playing league as major air forces. I don't think China is a last resort option anymore, IMO it appears that any requirement comes up in the Pakistani Forces - first one to get the details abroad will be China. Even the PAF Commander said Europe would have to offer as a very good and very cost effective avionics package to compete against the Chinese one currently on it.
When the Plus One requirement was being settled, I remember Mirage 2000-5Mk2, Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen and J-10 being the main contenders. The Mirage 2000-9 was dropped straight off the bat. The Gripen was probably a very liked option, but I bet the cost and political issues killed that option. It was really down to Typhoon, Rafale and J-10 - and I believe PAF must have found a potential equal to the European Fighters in J-10. The Pakistani Cabinet approved a "Joint Working Group" for the "FC-20". Given the later induction date, the potential scenarios PAF would need to deal with in the future - it'd be an excellent investment to focus on Super-10. If we believed China could not do it, then we would've gone and spent the extra amount on Rafale...we spent A LOT on the 24 Mirage IIIs in 1967 - we'd do the same today.
That's my reasoning about FC-20 being Super-10/at least a genuine 4.5 generation fighter.
Last edited by Diving Falcon; 08-12-2007 at 11:20 PM.
just see this and .............
it says that after the success of the JF-17 Thunder Pakistan is planning for new JF-10 Multi role fighter.According to PAF sources , new JF-10 multirole jet will act as replacement? of US F-16.initally it will be produce in china with some help from pakistan, later on PAC will start its production. sources told the expres that according to agreement first 250 jf-17 will be produced?the soon after that agreement will be signed for JF-10 Multirole jet.PAF polits will go to china next week for 6 jf-17 thunders.JF-10 will have all the capabilities of f-16.
On the 6th September 2007 on Dawn News TV Air Chief Marshall Tanvir Mehmood said that JF-17 is performing very well and it was the best decision made in the history of the PAF.PAF is going to induct 250 of them. 25-30 aircraft per year will be produced. 60-70% of the airframe will be amde in Pakistan as well as 80-90% of the avionics. Procurement will be complete in 8-9 years.China will retain the ability to mass produce them if a need arises.
J-10 can carry more fuel and weapons. PAF will have specially customed avionics on thiers.1-2 squadrons will be purchased (36 planes in total) anddeputy Air chief marshall will be visiting China for a brief discussion.
Here is proper translation:
So it basically talks of ToT of J-10.PLAN TO BUILD JF-10 MULTIROLE FIGHTER AIRCRAFT IN COOPERATION/VENTURE WITH CHINA
Lahore: After the success of JF-17 fighter aircraft, Pakistan has prepared a plan to build new JF-10 fighter aircraft in cooperation/venture with China. According to PAF source the new JF-10 would be alternative to F-16. Initially the aircraft would be produced inside China but would later be produced at PAC Kamra (Pakistan). According to the source the plan to built 250 JF-17s is being completed & the deal for JF-10 would be officially signed after that. The sourcr also said that PAF Pilots would be flying to China to take the delivery of 6 more JF-17s next week. According to the source the JF-10, like US F-16, would be equipped with state-of-the-art technology/features.
I think neither the site nor the source in PAF is credible - "JF-10" kind of proves it. I doubt that the source inside the PAF even exists - the guy is probably making it up.
I recommend to keep the fuss low till something credible comes up.
Don't pay too much attention to this urdu news. I am 100% sure the person who wrote it even did not know what he/she was talking about. I would be pleased to know if the reporter even ever saw a picture of J-10.
"wildcard" = unproven, it is frown upon in our airforce. the reliability of the system is important, a system failure may result in a dead pilot and plane hence adopting a "wildcard" seen as an increase in risk management needs.IMO PAF wants FC-20 to be equipped with as many Chinese systems as possible. Besides the relative cost factor compared to European counterparts, it also provides Pakistan with a solid wild card that neither IAF or USAF would entirely know about.
the more training the pilot receives, the less likely the airforce will use untested system since the investment in the pilot is higher. for this reason i ask how is PAF rated for it's level of training?
Is he talking about J-11B here by any chance??Q. What are the options available for PAF to enhance its fleet, and what new fighter types are expected to join PAF in the next five years?
Ans. As I have mentioned earlier, we are keeping all available options open and wants a well balanced multirole jet fighter aircraft. We will be inducting 18 new F-16C/Ds and most probably will use our option of 18 more after the first squadron will be operational. We will also be inducting 26 MLU F-16A/B as well as our existing fleet of 34 aircraft will also undergo the MLU upgrades. 150 JF-17 Thunders and 36 F-10A aircraft will also be joining PAF, and more F-10s can be expected. Most probably we will also purchase FC-20 fighter aircraft from China.
For me it is clear....
Can we just concentrate what the above statement of PAF is implying, rather that what pak is allowed or Russian sensibilities??
What exactly is FC-20??
To me, FC-20 may imply J-10 or a next joint developing fighter after FC-1/JF-17. That's all!