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Chinese UAV & UCAV development

This is a discussion on Chinese UAV & UCAV development within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Bltizo There we go then, there we have it. I want a better shot of the exhaust. ...

  1. #901
    delft is online now Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by Bltizo View Post
    There we go then, there we have it.

    I want a better shot of the exhaust. From this angle it almost looks like they stuck the engine like a conventional fighter rather than embedded like most flying wings
    I think you are comparing this single engine aircraft with other aircraft with more engines. If there are more engines the diameter of an engine and its exhaust is relatively smaller so they can more easily be buried in the wing. You might also think of changing the cross-section of the jet pipe as in F-22 but that increases weight and reduces thrust and it needs a large design effort to minimize these effects. This might be used in a later prototype of this aircraft. That obviously depends on the purpose of this aircraft.

  2. #902
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by delft View Post
    I think you are comparing this single engine aircraft with other aircraft with more engines. If there are more engines the diameter of an engine and its exhaust is relatively smaller so they can more easily be buried in the wing. You might also think of changing the cross-section of the jet pipe as in F-22 but that increases weight and reduces thrust and it needs a large design effort to minimize these effects. This might be used in a later prototype of this aircraft. That obviously depends on the purpose of this aircraft.
    Actually all other single engined UCAVs from X-47B, X-45A/C, Neuron etc all have their engines buried in the fuselage ala B-2.

    I think the engine may once again be the limiting factor. Possibly lack of a more powerful engine means it cannot be buried as deeply which may reduce thrust, so they compromise to this.
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  3. #903
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by Bltizo View Post
    Tech limitations, cost, fact taht this may just be a demonstrator so nozzle isn't as important, etc etc.
    It might be reasonable for supersonic fighters to have round nozzle and discard rear aspect LO

    But for a bomber with primarily SEAD and recon type mission, it does not make sense, i think we can agree this is some sort of early demonstrator

  4. #904
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    I would like to see more shots, especially from below when she flies, but from the pictures so far, I get the impression that the engine nozzle is sitting very high in the fuselage rather than centre aligned in the horizontal axis. This suggest to me that the round nozzle is totally obscured from anything below the plane and is only visible from above or at least the same level and from the sides as the pictures show. Thus, against ground based radars, the round nozzle should not make much difference to the RCS of this bird unless the ground based radar was directly behind the UCAV.

    Even the post child of all aspect stealth the F22 isn't all that stealthy when scanned from above or from behind when the radar can get a nice juicy return from inside the engine itself, so one really has to wonder just how cost effective it would be to try and bury the entire engine in the fuselage for the sake of marginally better RCS from scan angles the UCAV should not normally have to face.

    It is not just the cost and weight penalties of having a stealthy nozzle, but also the reduced internal volume from placing the entire engine much more forward in the fuselage. With such a small airframe, that extra metre or more of extra space in front of the engines could make a massive difference in terms of the bomb bay size as well as the available space for fuel and avionics etc.

    One of the reasons western weapons systems are so expensive is because their designers tend to want perfection when just good enough is usually good enough.

    If having a little bit of round engine nozzle sticking out the back that will only be visible to airborne radar scanning from above or the sides of the UAV significantly reduces unit cost and/or significant increases operational range and/or bomb bay size, well, that could well be a very good trade off to be honest.
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  5. #905
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Looks very much like a RD-93 ?!!

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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Looks very much like a RD-93 ?!!
    size looks about right, nozzle looks different though, might need clearer picture to tell

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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    yep, i don't know of any other engine accesible to china which would be anywhere near this class. rd93 or its chinese variant seems most likely. If it is that engine, it would mean the whole aircraft is between 9.5 and 10 meters long (without all these temporary pitots on the nose) That puts it more or less in the same category as all the other high profile ucav demonstrators.

    vertical center of gravity certainly seems higher than in US programmes, but is similar to nEuron in that regard. Biggest difference between other ucavs and this one would certianly be that here the afterburner seems to have been retained. Why do that on a demostrator plane - who knows? certainly supersonic performance has its advantages and drawbacks.

    Cant wait to get a pic showing the shape of the wings.

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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    I dont think this thing is supersonic, wing should probably be at moderate sweep
    and there is no point in going just above 1.2M or 1.4M

    control surfaces are not good enough for agile combat maneuvers

  9. #909
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Have these two pics been posted here?

    01.jpg02.jpg

    ... I see, they have.
    Last edited by Player99; 05-14-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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  10. #910
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Engine nozzle is probably for everyone to see because it's only prototype, etc. Aviation week reported few years ago that Chinese are currently in same level where US was in 2000-2003 with their UCAV projects.



    The X-47A provided a proof of concept for the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the US Navy UCAV-N programme, and is spiral 0 in the spiral development programme targeted towards US Navy requirements. A similar programme managed by DARPA and the US Air Force covered the development of the Boeing X-45 targeted towards US Air Force requirement.
    X-47 Pegasus UCAV - Airforce Technology
    X-47A Pegasus First Flight - YouTube


    In 1999 Boeing was awarded a demonstration phase contract by DARPA and the USAF. Under the contract, Boeing Phantom Works completed two X-45A demonstrator air vehicles. The roll out ceremony of the first vehicle was in September 2001. The first flight was completed in May 2002.
    Boeing Company in Seattle is the principle contractor responsible for the X-45 programme and is also responsible for the provision and implementation of the mission control aspects. Boeing in St Louis is responsible for the development of the air vehicle
    X-45 J-UCAV (Joint Unmanned Combat Air System) - Airforce Technology
    Boeing X-45A Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle Program (2002) - YouTube
    Last edited by Broccoli; 05-14-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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  11. #911
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    A Copy From American or CIA Taking This Spy Photo?

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  12. #912
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Here's what the PLAN some day hopes to do with their own UCAV development.




    Those aircraft are going to be game changers as they are further developed and as they are used for all sorts of missions on their own (Recon, surveillance, BDA, Maritime Patrol, Strike). Particularly when it gets to the point where say and F/A-18F is flying along, controlling 4 or so of them at a time from its own aircraft. Talk about force multipliers.

    I know the US has been waiting for and looking forward to this. Very historic
    Last edited by Jeff Head; 05-14-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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  13. #913
    hardware is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Man View Post
    A Copy From American or CIA Taking This Spy Photo?

    if a dirt poor farmer can enter what suppose to be highly restritive area, then it seen every one could.

  14. #914
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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by hardware View Post
    if a dirt poor farmer can enter what suppose to be highly restritive area, then it seen every one could.
    That "farmer" obviously has an armband. I think he was hired to do maintenance work (like cutting grass or something) on site.
    Please visit http://www.chinesedefence.com/forums/f17/thread-translated-articles-658/ for translated Chinese military articles, news, and forum posts.

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    Re: Chinese UAV & UCAV development

    Quote Originally Posted by siegecrossbow View Post
    That "farmer" obviously has an armband. I think he was hired to do maintenance work (like cutting grass or something) on site.
    I don't think that's an armband. It's the sleeve of a long-sleeve shirt he wears under his short-sleeved shirt. However, the long-sleeved shirt is orange in color, which matched the color of the shirts/jackets worn by the people working on the UAV in the background. So the guy is obviously a worker employed by the facility.
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