Chinese UAV & UCAV development

Is the UAV really as important as what it was shown to be? I sometime think that the UAV is overrated. It is useful in difficult terrain and against a troop that are technologically inferior to yourself and had no means or very limited means of shooting it down from sky. However against a force that is almost the same as yourself and/or have plenty of means of shooting the UAV down, then the UAV is only flying target boards.

I think that the main reason why the Russian are not using their UAV is not just because their troops are not really train much with the UAV but basically because it was useless against the Georgians who are trained and equipped by the US and I believe had enough Manpads and AAA to easily bring down the UAV easily.

Plus no matter how cheap a UAV is, it still cost quite a heafy sum and to waste them in operations so quickly is really not a very clever thing to do.

Originally Posted by rhino123

Is the UAV really as important as what it was shown to be? I sometime think that the UAV is overrated. It is useful in difficult terrain and against a troop that are technologically inferior to yourself and had no means or very limited means of shooting it down from sky. However against a force that is almost the same as yourself and/or have plenty of means of shooting the UAV down, then the UAV is only flying target boards.

I think that the main reason why the Russian are not using their UAV is not just because their troops are not really train much with the UAV but basically because it was useless against the Georgians who are trained and equipped by the US and I believe had enough Manpads and AAA to easily bring down the UAV easily.

Plus no matter how cheap a UAV is, it still cost quite a heafy sum and to waste them in operations so quickly is really not a very clever thing to do.

and that's precisely why they SHOULD use UAV's. that was the first impression when i was reading through the articles describing how the battle was commenced: what happened to all the EW and ISR stuff? yah know, if georgians did shoot down a lot of the UAV's, then at least Russia would have a good idea of their air-defence capability or even location, and they wouldnt be shooting down as many su-25's and that tu-22.
i guess its either because they werent prepared, or this stuff is simply not indoctrinated into units that's been fighting the chechens rather than real conventional armies.

Originally Posted by pla101prc

and that's precisely why they SHOULD use UAV's. that was the first impression when i was reading through the articles describing how the battle was commenced: what happened to all the EW and ISR stuff? yah know, if georgians did shoot down a lot of the UAV's, then at least Russia would have a good idea of their air-defence capability or even location, and they wouldnt be shooting down as many su-25's and that tu-22.
i guess its either because they werent prepared, or this stuff is simply not indoctrinated into units that's been fighting the chechens rather than real conventional armies.

If geogians are using mobile air defence systems (SAM and Manpad), after shooting down the UAV, they could move away and so the position of these assets are still safe from Russia's attacks. Thus the best bet is still to bomb that small little country using their tactical missiles and bombers.

Prior to that intelligence service and special operation forces should be inserted into the country and mark targets. Then the entire military should be closely coordinated, rather than rely on UAV.

Originally Posted by rhino123

If geogians are using mobile air defence systems (SAM and Manpad), after shooting down the UAV, they could move away and so the position of these assets are still safe from Russia's attacks. Thus the best bet is still to bomb that small little country using their tactical missiles and bombers.

Prior to that intelligence service and special operation forces should be inserted into the country and mark targets. Then the entire military should be closely coordinated, rather than rely on UAV.

well UAV provides a good up-to-date info on where the enemy is. its good to let the ground troops know where to go and where not to go. in reality, the Russian airforce was not very effective in this war and the georgian air-defence was the only thing that was effective. i felt that despite the outstanding performance of the Russian land elements, they could have used some additional help from gathering a lil more info

according to kanwa and miltech, Chinese attack UAV encounter difficulty trying to develop real time sensor-to-shoot capability similiar to Predator.

How difficult is it to detect a low flying Cessna? If they fly below 100 feet. Can their low IR signature fool current generations of Manpad missiles?

There have been cases of small piston planes penetrating a nation's air defence. I remember one flew from Western Europe (I think from Germany) right to Moscow undetected some years back.

Originally Posted by challenge

according to kanwa and miltech, Chinese attack UAV encounter difficulty trying to develop real time sensor-to-shoot capability similiar to Predator.

lol i am pretty sure when it comes to a real UCAV, China is gonna have alot more problems than just that. but obviously that's not much of a concern because China has a good 20 years to work on it before it really becomes a potent factor in modern air-combat.

Originally Posted by pla101prc

lol i am pretty sure when it comes to a real UCAV, China is gonna have alot more problems than just that. but obviously that's not much of a concern because China has a good 20 years to work on it before it really becomes a potent factor in modern air-combat.

They are not much of a factor in air combat, but are now critical in ground combat. They allow ground commanders to have a real time picture of the battle from above. The ability to take out an enemy position with something like a JDAM or Hellfire is gravy, but their real value, even in a peer on peer war is their ability to look over the edge of the battle and relay enemy movements to a ground commander during a fight. Depending on the UAV, losses can be accepted.
Study how the Israeli's used UAV's to defeat Syrian air defenses in Lebanon.

Originally Posted by Ambivalent

They are not much of a factor in air combat, but are now critical in ground combat. They allow ground commanders to have a real time picture of the battle from above. The ability to take out an enemy position with something like a JDAM or Hellfire is gravy, but their real value, even in a peer on peer war is their ability to look over the edge of the battle and relay enemy movements to a ground commander during a fight. Depending on the UAV, losses can be accepted.
Study how the Israeli's used UAV's to defeat Syrian air defenses in Lebanon.

that's just now, i am sure in a couple of decades there will be plenty of good use for UCAV in air combat

Originally Posted by pla101prc

that's just now, i am sure in a couple of decades there will be plenty of good use for UCAV in air combat

You will see them soon for certain dangerous ground attack missions such as DEAD, Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses. Four UCAV's working under the direction of a pilot in an F-35 is the talked about scenario.

Originally Posted by Ambivalent

You will see them soon for certain dangerous ground attack missions such as DEAD, Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses. Four UCAV's working under the direction of a pilot in an F-35 is the talked about scenario.

sounds like a pretty cool combination, fairly demanding on the C4ISR network infrastructures though, only a few country can pull off this kind of stuff.

pentagon confirmed that stealth UAV RQ-170 Sentinel being used in afghanistan.
the aircraft resemble B-2 fitted with recon sensor.
anym picture of RQ-170?

Originally Posted by challenge

pentagon confirmed that stealth UAV RQ-170 Sentinel being used in afghanistan.
the aircraft resemble B-2 fitted with recon sensor.
anym picture of RQ-170?

USAF reveals RQ-170 Sentinel is new stealth UAV

One would assume the subject of it's surveillance missions has radar to be evaded, not a capability one typically attributes to the forces of the Taliban or AQ. Hmmm???

Originally Posted by Ambivalent

USAF reveals RQ-170 Sentinel is new stealth UAV

One would assume the subject of it's surveillance missions has radar to be evaded, not a capability one typically attributes to the forces of the Taliban or AQ. Hmmm???

maybe iran should shoot it down, just to make obama look bad