Chinese-European transport helo project

well, this is an article on the different Mi-17 types and what they are using. I will translate that later.

目前俄国在产的Mi-17系列和5701厂组装型号
这里只说俄国出口的Mi-17系列，他们自用的Mi-8M系列与我们无关，说起来也比较复杂，先不管它。

大家都知道，俄国出口的Mi-17系列直升机现在由两家企业生产，喀山和乌兰乌德。他们各生产各的型号，型号名称互不重复。目前，喀山生 产的型号有三个， Mi-17-1V（Ми-17-1В）、Mi-172（Ми-172）、Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）；乌兰乌德也有三个型号，Mi- 171（Ми-171）、Mi-171Sh（Ми-171Ш）、Mi-171A（Ми-171А）。要说这六个型号的区别，很简单。先从喀山的产品开始， Ми-17-1В（Mi-17-1V）是以武装突击运输为主的多用途直升机；Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）是无武装的多用途运输直升机； Mi-172（Ми-172）是纯粹的客运直升机。再说乌兰乌德的产品，Mi-171（Ми-171）是无武装的通用运输直升机；Mi-171Sh（Ми -171Ш）是专门的武装突击运输型；Mi-171A（Ми-171А）是最新在Mi-171（Ми-171）型VIP机的基础上开发的客运直升机。六个型号的区别，说起来简单，但要凭这些来识别不同型号的M i-17系列直升机，是根本不可能的，因为上述区别都只是功能而非机载设备或外形特征。而事实就是这样的，乌兰 乌德和喀山的这六个型号，与其说是型号，不如说是产品类别，因为同型号不同批次不同用户的产品区别太大了， 而有些不同型号的产品人们却很难从外观分辨。造成这种情况的原因主要是生产厂家往往根据用户需求对直升机进 行各种个性化的改装，另一方面，一些问世较早的型号在进行一系列改进后没有被重新命名也是一个原因。举几个 例子：我军的通用运输型Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）和VIP型Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В- 5/7），你从外形上看，绝对不会认为是同一个机型，以至早些时候大家把通用运输型认作5，把专机型认作7，实 际上不论5还是7，都有各自的通用运输型和专机型；再比如，救灾中失事的92734号Mi-171（Ми-171）是1993年进口的，跟我们07年从乌兰乌德买的那批直升机有天壤之别，但他们同样都叫Mi-171（Ми-171）；而把07年这批Mi-171（Ми-171）放在大家面前，恐怕大多数人要把它当成喀山的Mi-17V-5/7 （Ми-17В-5/7）。乌兰乌德和喀山这两家企业很有意思，从这六个型号可以看出，他们在Mi-17系列出口方面的竞争是相当激烈的，你有一个型号，我就面向相同市场推出一个与之相当的型号，他们各自的 三个型号可以说是针锋相对的，Mi-17-1V（Ми-17-1В）——Mi-171Sh（Ми- 171Ш），Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）——Mi-171（Ми-171），Mi-172（Ми-172）——Mi-171A（Ми- 171А）。

Mi-17-1V（Ми-17-1В）是个老机型，至今改动不大，有的有气象雷达，有的还没有，可以带武装出售，也可以不带，武器只能打火 箭弹，没有Mi-171Sh（Ми-171Ш）在这方面专业。我军装备少量90年代生产的，是带武器系统购买的。

Mi-171Sh（Ми-171Ш）一直在改，可供选择的改装也很多，发动机标配ТВ3-117ВМ，可选装ВК-2500，机头可以用透明的也可以选海豚的，或者在透明的基础上加GSH-23L航炮，可以加装甲，可以装发动机尾气红外抑制装置，可装红外干扰弹发射器，可以选圆机尾或液压跳板尾 门，可以加右侧门等等，翼下除了火箭弹还可以挂航炮吊舱和导弹。这个型号我军没有。

Mi-17V-5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）是国内比较熟悉的型号了，发动机用ТВ3-117ВМ的叫5，发动机用ВК-2500的叫7，不过从外面谁也看不出用的是什么，所以二者如何区分还有待进一步观察。这个型号比较新，生 产不多，主要就是我军的通用运输型、专机型和韩国的警用搜救。海豚机头是这个型号的典型特征，通用运输型右 侧开门，左侧宽开门，液压跳板尾门；专机型无右门，舷梯式左门向下开启，圆形机尾设舷梯式尾门上下开启，方 舷窗，豪华客舱布置；韩国警用搜救基本和我们的通用运输型差不多，只不过用了方舷窗。这个型号也可以选装发 动机尾气红外抑制装置和红外干扰弹发射器，我们没有购买。武器系统也是回国自己装的。

Mi-171（Ми-171）也是老机型，但由于不断改进，可选配置多，产量大，所以什么样的都有。发动机标配ТВ3-117ВМ，可选装ВК- 2500，机头、机尾、舱门布置等等像Mi-171Sh（Ми-171Ш）一样，一切都可选。我军07年购买这批选用了和之前从喀山购买的Mi-17V- 5/7（Ми-17В-5/7）基本一致的配置，除了把左侧宽开门改为标准宽度。除了天线、空速管、旋翼减振器等细节，专机型几乎一模 一样。今年起在 5701厂组装的就是这个状态的Mi-171（Ми-171）。另外，我军还有早期Mi-171（Ми-171）客运型改装的搜救直升机，透明机头，方舷窗，圆尾，加水上漂浮气囊。

Mi-172（Ми-172）和Mi-171A（Ми-171А）都是客运型直升机，特征和前述我军Mi-171搜救机差不多，但左侧们和尾门都和专机型一样采用舷梯式上下开启，有应急逃生出口，漂浮气囊等可选装 ，客运直升机也可以改装为专机、搜救机、医疗机等等。两型发动机都是ТВ3-117ВМ，无其他选择。国内民航有Mi-171A（Ми-171А）。

大概先说这么多，还有什么以后再补充。

VIDEO - Heli-Expo 2008: Eurocopter unveils EC175, names launch customers
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...customers.html

7 ton and 16 seats? That reads exactly like a UH-60. Seems just what PLA (and PLAN!) have been looking for, for all these years.

Found some days ago at CDF !! So it is already under construction ???

Deino

Originally Posted by Deino

Found some days ago at CDF !! So it is already under construction ???

Deino

yes, I actually saw the photo a couple of days ago, the first Z-15 under assembly in China.

Originally Posted by tphuang

yes, I actually saw the photo a couple of days ago, the first Z-15 under assembly in China.

Will it be manufactured completely in China ?? ... or will there be a seperate prod.-line in Europe too !??

Deino

Originally Posted by Deino

Will it be manufactured completely in China ?? ... or will there be a seperate prod.-line in Europe too !??

Deino

I'm guessing that they must have two main assembly lines then, I thought Harbin would not be getting an assembly line until a couple of years later. I guess I'm wrong on that.

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/372000.htm
very interesting news here

Russian arms maker Oboronprom and China's AVICopter signed a memorandum to jointly develop a civilian heavy helicopter. "We've had the blueprints, and they have the money," said Ilya Yakushev, a spokesman for Oboronprom, referring to China. China wants to develop and produce the helicopter, whose weight will be around 30 tons, on its own territory, said Russian Helicopters, Oboronprom's helicopter manufacturing subsidiary.

China is ready to finance the project, said the company, adding that any details were up for negotiation. The Mi-46 helicopter currently being developed in Russia could provide the basis for the new aircraft, the company said in a statement.

Russian Helicopters also signed a framework agreement to sell four older, Mi-26 heavy helicopters to China, the world's largest helicopter importer, the company said.

so, on top of their existing 6 ton and 10 ton helicopter projects, they are also looking at this 30 ton helicopter. I'm a little surprised that they don't have something in the 20 ton class like the CH-47 (maybe they will go for Mi-38, I don't know). Anyhow, it's good to see that they are working on this + getting some badly needed Mi-26s.

Is it just coincidence that all these deals are being made or is this a result of China and Russia resolving their border issues?

this is in an interesting piece, China exported 4 Z-9s to Kenya
http://www.avic1.com.cn/Chinese/xwzx...0081024_90.htm

本报讯（通讯员 黄丽娟）历经一年多的努力，日前，哈飞销售部正式对外发布消息：已经购买12架运十二飞机的用户——肯尼亚 ，又一次购买了4架该公司生产的直九直升机，成为哈飞的回头客。

肯尼亚购买直九直升机的项目启动于2006年年底，得到消息后，哈飞与中航技密切配合，快速反应，主动登门 与潜在用户沟通情况，推介哈飞直九直升机。2007年12月，肯尼亚就此项目启动国际招标。同时参加竞标的 公司有哈飞、法国欧洲直升机公司和意大利阿古斯塔直升机公司。

面对强大的竞争对手，哈飞积极应对，他们一方面在分析用户需求的基础上制作高水平标书，另一方面在肯尼亚派 出评估组深入工厂进行评估时，以“全员营销”的理念，集全厂之力为评估小组进行了出色的试验飞行。经过多方 努力终于赢得用户信赖，继上世纪90年代购买12架运十二飞机之后，肯尼亚用户再一次将橄榄枝抛向哈飞。今 年6月11日，中航技代表中方与肯尼亚正式签署4架直九直升机的购销合同。之后，哈飞又与中航技经过多次谈 判签署了这4架直九直升机的包销合同。

据悉，9月10日，肯尼亚已将预付款支付到哈飞账户，4架直升机已经投产，计划于2009年11月15日前 全部交付。

截至目前，哈飞直九机已出口马里、毛里塔尼亚、巴基斯坦、老挝、肯尼亚5个国家共18架。

It didn't say whether or not this is military, but it did say that Harbin AC beat out Eurocopter and Agusta for this order. Outside of this, Harbin has also exported Y-12 to kenya. All of them will be delivered by November of 2009.

Just found this at the Key-forum:

Russian arms maker Oboronprom and China's AVICopter signed a memorandum to jointly develop a civilian heavy helicopter. "We've had the blueprints, and they have the money," said Ilya Yakushev, a spokesman for Oboronprom, referring to China. China wants to develop and produce the helicopter, whose weight will be around 30 tons, on its own territory, said Russian Helicopters, Oboronprom's helicopter manufacturing subsidiary.

China is ready to finance the project, said the company, adding that any details were up for negotiation. The Mi-46 helicopter currently being developed in Russia could provide the basis for the new aircraft, the company said in a statement.

Russian Helicopters also signed a framework agreement to sell four older, Mi-26 heavy helicopters to China, the world's largest helicopter importer, the company said.

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/372000.htm

Deino

well i guess the earthquake really gave the people in office a wake up call on the lack of numbers of helicopters, and weight class. i wonder why their only ~400 helicopters in the entire China? they could've kept manufacturing the Z-9, but it seems that the rate of Z-9 being built is low. most likely waiting on the Z-15, and don't want anymore or much insufficient helicopters being put to service, and then soon after being replaced.

more on the mi-46 deal

Moscow. October 30. INTERFAX-AVN - A memorandum signed between Russia's
United Industrial Corporation Oboronprom and Chinese company AVICopter
in Moscow on Oct. 28 envisions the joint development and commercial
production of a heavy civilian helicopter with a designed takeoff weight
of about 30 tons, a source from the Russian military industrial sector
told Interfax.
"The Chinese have been buying the heavy Mi-26 helicopters from us, but
they want to develop their own more state-of-the-art model and arrange
its production with our assistance," the source said.
China is interested in the joint project to build a heavy helicopter, as
well as obtaining a license to launch commercial production at its own
enterprises, he said.
The envisaged helicopter could be based on the Mi-46 helicopter
currently being developed by the Moscow Helicopter Plant, the source
said
"The Chinese market for such helicopters is about 300. Taking into
account the size of the country and its population, they plan to use
these helicopters for transporting passengers and cargo, and also in the
construction sector and in rescue operations - the recent earthquake in
Sichuan showed the need for building up the [country's] fleet of heavy
helicopters," he said.
The implementation of the project would help Russian helicopter
producers advance their R&D on heavy helicopters, the source said.
Russia is the only country in the world producing helicopters capable of
carrying 20 tons. European companies have only recently started working
in the area.
"In regards to the [other] protocol signed between the company
Helicopters of Russia and China National Aero-Technology Import and
Export Corporation (CATIC), it envisions the sale of four Russian Mi-26
heavy helicopters to China," he said.

I guess not much except confirming the 4 Mi-26 deal

This is surprising, only 1 mi-26 is said to be signed here, even though 4 was stated in previous reports.

Nov. 04, 2008Print | E-mail | Home Helicopter Contract Signed with China
The Rostov Helicopter Production Complex (Rosvertol) signed a contract for the delivery of a Mi-26TS helicopter, the best-selling helicopter in the world, to China at Airshow China 2008 on Tuesday. A number of documents connected with helicopter deliveries were also signed.
“This is the second contract for the delivery of Russian Mi-36 helicopters to China,” Rosvetol general director Boris Slyusar told Interfax. “The first was signed in August 2006 for the leasing of a Mi-26 helicopter to a Chinese company for three years. Later, the Chinese company bought it outright. We signed the transfer for it today too.”

The cost of the contract was not revealed. Experts estimate that the cost of single Mi-26 helicopter is $20-25 million, depending on options.