SinoDefence Forum

tphuang · 03-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by optionsss

The guy really did not say too much about that 10 ton helo, does anybody know more about it? If it can be comparable to the CH-53 Sea Stallion, then it would be a huge lift to the PLAN's ASW capabilities. But it still can be quit useful if the helo can transport things in the rough Tibet terrans. Assuming that was what the person meant by better then Black Hawk

It seems to me that they are looking for something in the weight and performance class of SH-60 or NH-90, if they ever decide to develop a naval version of this helicopter. I think with the transport variant, they are trying to replace with S-70 and Mi-8/17 currently in service. Frankly, Z-8s are not going anywhere.

tphuang · 07-12-2007

more on civilian helicopter project, this is cooperation with Sikorsky

Quote:

BEIJING, July 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. today
announced the selection of Changhe Aircraft Industries Corp. to supply S-76(R)
helicopter airframes. The agreement is the second to result from a Memorandum
of Understanding (MOU) signed June 1, 2006, by Sikorsky and China Aviation
Industry Corp. II (AVIC II), parent company of Changhe. Sikorsky is a
subsidiary of United Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX).

(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/...3/SIKORSKYLOGO )

(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20070712/NETH065 )

Changhe will build and deliver S-76C++(TM) helicopter airframes for
Sikorsky together with AERO Vodochody in the Czech Republic. With the new
agreement, Changhe is now a supplier for Sikorsky's three largest commercial
helicopter programs. Changhe manufactures tail pylons for Sikorsky's S-92A(R)
helicopter, and in October 2006 signed the first MOU production agreement to
supply airframe components and assemblies for Sikorsky's Schweizer 300CBi
aircraft, which are used worldwide for pilot training, transportation, aerial
photography, airborne patrol and many other purposes.

The MOU signed by the two companies opened discussions about potential
arrangements for helicopter manufacturing, assembly, flight test, engineering
design and analysis, and new product development in the light, intermediate
and medium helicopter classes.

"Today marks another important step in Sikorsky's relationship with AVIC
II and in our global expansion," said Carey Bond, Sikorsky vice president for
corporate strategy. "This new agreement will strengthen our supplier base, add
value for our customers, and enable us to maintain smooth production flow as
we continue to see strong demand for the S-76 helicopter line, including the
next generation S-76D(TM) model now under development."

Bond also noted, "Sikorsky remains committed to the Asian aviation market,
and our growing presence and involvement in China provides the foundation for
local market expansion. We envision start-to-finish, 'fly-away' production of
Schweizer helicopters in China for the domestic market as the government takes
steps to encourage civil aviation by eliminating air space restrictions."

tphuang · 07-14-2007

well, this story again, not much more other than possible cooperation on the 1 tonne helo

Quote:

July 13 (Bloomberg) -- United Technologies Corp.'s
helicopter unit, Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., will buy airframes
from China Aviation Industry Corp. II, furthering a cooperation
agreement reached by the two companies last year.
Changhe Aircraft Industries Corp., a unit of state-owned
China Aviation, will build parts for Sikorsky's S-76C++
helicopter, Stratford, Connecticut-based Sikorsky said in a
statement released via PRNewswire today.
The expanded agreement is a step toward establishing full
production of helicopters under Sikorsky's Schweizer brand in
China for domestic sale, Carey Bond, Sikorsky's vice president
for corporate strategy, said in the statement.
The statement didn't give the financial terms of the
subcontracting agreement. Changhe already makes parts for the
Sikorsky S-92A(R) helicopter and the Schweizer 300CBi, which are
used for pilot training, transportation and aerial photography,
the statement said.
Sikorsky and Changhe also plan to co-develop a 1-ton
helicopter, the Beijing-based China Daily reported today, citing
Changhe Chairman Wang Bin.
China Aviation Industry Corp. II is also known as AVIC II.

tphuang · 09-20-2007

well, I think the CMH (Z-12) project might still be proceeding from the look of this or maybe this is talking about the 10 tonne helo project.

Quote:

Sep. 20, 2007 (China Knowledge) - State-owned China Aviation Industry
Corporation II (AVIC II), the sole helicopter R&D and manufacturing center in
China, announced to invest RMB 3 billion to develop and manufacture civilian
helicopters, said its general manager Zhang Hongbiao at the ongoing the 12th
International Aviation Expo in Beijing yesterday.

AVIC II has set its target to be the leading global helicopter maker and to
play an essential role in domestic and overseas market by 2020. Zhang said AVIC
II will strengthen international cooperation in research, manufacturing,
marketing and after-sale service to meet the needs of customers worldwide so as
to realize the target.

It is said that AVIC II has got the core technologies in aerofoil, transmission
and navigation electricity systems of medium helicopters. It has built
technical cooperation with the Eurocopter Group, Augusta Westland and HP
Canada, which will enable AVIC II to produce helicopters with its own design
and to join international cooperation with stronger technical strength.

The 12th Aviation Expo, held at the China Exhibition Center in Beijing from Sep
19 to Sep 22, attracted both leading Chinese aviation companies and top
international aircraft maker, such as Boeing and Airbus. The two aviation expos
held Beijing and Zhuhai, a city in East China, respectively are the most
important aviation exhibits in China.

tphuang · 01-21-2008

http://www.avic2.com.cn/ReadNews.asp...=1&SpecialID=0

Quote:

12月11日由中航二团主办的“07＇中国直升机与公用事业发展论坛”在北京国际会议中心隆重开幕。国防科工委秘书长黄强、中央电视台总工程师丁文华、中航二集团总经理张洪飚出席论坛并致辞。中航二集团副总经理梁振河主持开幕式。
张洪飚致开幕辞，他对出席论坛的领导、专家、学者和关心支持中国直升机事业的各方人士表示热烈的欢迎和诚挚的感谢。他说，我国直升机工业自1956年创建以来，走过了一条不平凡的发展道路，取得了历史性的成就，为经济建设和国防事业做出了重要贡献。中国直升机工业已步入了新的发展时期，产品形成了从1吨级S300、1 .5吨级HC120、2吨级直11、3吨级CA109、4吨级直9、6吨级直15、13吨级直8等多个系列军民两用、较为完整的体系，并与欧直、阿古斯特、西科斯基、贝尔等国际著名直升机制造商开展了多层次、多形式的国际合作，有效提升了我国直升机的研制水平。张洪飚表示，党的十七大为我们描绘了宏伟蓝图，公用事业的繁荣必将带动直升机产业的发展，同时直升机产业的发展也能够促进公用事业的进步。中航第二集团公司作为中国直升机产业的核心力量，将全面贯彻科学发展观，始终站在高科技的前沿，加速推进产业化进程，沿着建设直升机强国的道路不断迈进。
在全力支持直升机产业化发展的主题论坛上，中航二集团副总经理梁振河、国防科工委综合计划司副司长刘长根、中国民航总局政策法规司副司长史博利、公安部警用航空管理办公室王文义处长、国家海洋局海监总队副队长吴强分别作主题发言。香港政府飞行服务队、国际直升机协会、南京市公安局、纽约城警局航空部、中央电视播送中心、交通部北海第一救助飞行队、中信海洋直升机公司、首都通航、哈飞集团、昌河集团、中国直升机设计研究所、中航技总公司等单位，在直升机应用交流会上分别对直升机在公用事业领域的应用和发展阐述了各自的观点。
论坛期间，举办了直升机配套设备展，就不同领域的直升机专业配套设备进行展览展示。来自国内外40余家直升机配套企业进行了机载产品的展示。
此次论坛由中国航空科技工业股份有限公司、哈尔滨飞机工业集团有限责任公司、昌河飞机工业集团有限责任公司、中国航空技术进出口总公司、中国直升机设计研究所协办，中航文化股份有限公司承办。来自国家部委有关领导、国际直升机行业协会、公安系统、民用直升机的直接用户以及国内外机载配套企业200多名代表参加了论坛。

it just talks about helicopters being produced by AVIC2, the series of helicopters include.
S300 - 1 tonne class
HC-120 - 1.5 tonne class
Z-11 - 2 tonne class
CA-109 - 3 tonne class
Z-9 - 4 tonne class
Z-15 - 6 tonne class
Z-8 - 13 tonne class

I guess they failed to mention the 10 tonne helicopter that they are developing and hasn't seemed to receive a designation yet.

tphuang · 02-26-2008

more news on EC-175, looks like it's had quite a nice introduction

AVIONEWS at the "Heli-Expo 2008" (9): in two days the EC-175 totalized 98 orders
http://www.avionews.com/index.php?co...po%3Dindex.php

Houston, USA - The announcement has been given by Lutz Bertling
(WAPA) - The Eurocopter CEO, Lutz Bertling, has announced that in the first two days of the international exhibition the EC-175 helicopter has totalized 98 orders. The last order belonging to the Halvorson family with a contract for 10 helicopter (five firm + five options).

The EC-175 is born by a joint programme between Eurocopter and the Chinese aerospace industry AVIC II. It deals with an at least 6-ton civil aircraft belonging to the segment included between the Dauphin and the Super Puma. It is able to carry up to 16 persons besides its crew, according to forecasts, flying at a 280 km/h maximum speed and provided with a 200 miles range.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...8.xml&show=hai

Troika · 02-27-2008

China purchases Polish helicopters

150 choppers over 10 years? The Sokol isn't bad, and fills a nice gap, maybe, but the Kania is getting a bit dated, it IS a Mi-2 knock off, after all, and I think the Z-9 has pretty much the same role, and superior performance. SW-4 is fine, but I don't think it offers anything materially better than Z-11 or HC-120.

kickars · 02-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troika

150 choppers over 10 years? The Sokol isn't bad, and fills a nice gap, maybe, but the Kania is getting a bit dated, it IS a Mi-2 knock off, after all, and I think the Z-9 has pretty much the same role, and superior performance. SW-4 is fine, but I don't think it offers anything materially better than Z-11 or HC-120.

So what class is Sokol in? I always thought they are in the same class as Kania.

I mean it's always a good news to hear more choppers are coming into China. But I'm a bit confused with this purchase.

Troika · 02-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickars

So what class is Sokol in? I always thought they are in the same class as Kania.

I mean it's always a good news to hear more choppers are coming into China. But I'm a bit confused with this purchase.

Sokol and Kania is about the same size, but Kania has inferior load, Sokol is almost double. I mean, Kania is 2 tonne helicopter in the Z-9 class, Sokol is more closer to a Mi-4.

Ryz05 · 02-28-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickars

So what class is Sokol in? I always thought they are in the same class as Kania.

I mean it's always a good news to hear more choppers are coming into China. But I'm a bit confused with this purchase.

The Sokol should fit well as a stop gap before the Z-15 goes into service. It's in the same class as the latter. I'm not sure about the other two classes, as China already has comparable helicopters with Z-9 and Z-11.

adeptitus · 02-28-2008

The Sokol Kania was not a successful product, with only ~16 built. The Sokol fared better at ~150 built, and with pending license-contract for another 150 to China. It also uses licensed Russian engine, so less trouble than importing from P&W Canada.

I found a pic of the updated Sokol "Gluszec" military variant:
http://www.airfoto.pl/index.php?modu...h=52127&size=2

But I'm pretty sure China is getting the civil and not military version. hehehe.

Deino · 02-28-2008

Just found at FlightGlobal.com:

Quote:

Heli-Expo 2008: Eurocopter unveils EC175, names launch customers
By Graham Warwick

Bristol Group and VIH Aviation Group have become the first launch customers for Eurocopter's new 7t-class helicopter, the EC175. The 16-set turbine twin is being developed jointly with China's Harbin Aviation Industry.

Eurocopter announced the launch customers druing the unveiling of a full-scale mockup of the EC175 at the Heli-Expo show in Houston, Texas. More customers are to be announced during the show, it says.

Design of the EC175 was frozen at the end of 2007, and manufacture of the first prototype is under way, says Eurocopter. First flight is scheduled for 2009, with European certification expected in 2011.

While Eurocopter is leading the programme, development and production are being shared 50:50 with Harbin, which is part of China's AVIC II aviation industrial group.

The EC175 will be powered by digitally controlled Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E turboshafts, and will feature a five-blade Spheriflex rotor, four-axis duplex autopilot and four flat-panel cockpit displays

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...customers.html

tphuang · 05-12-2008

I don't think this is too much of a surprise, since we've been hearing about it for a while now, but the scope of this project seems to be large.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080512/107127123.html

Quote:

MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti) - A manufacturing plant in southwest China has started to assemble Russian-designed Mi-171 transport helicopters, one of Russia's key arms exports, the Russian business daily Vedomosti said on Monday.

China plans to build at least 20 helicopters in 2008 with assembly kits supplied by a Russian plant in Ulan-Ude and later increase production capacity to 80 aircraft per year.

"We consider this project as the beginning of a trend to assembly Russian helicopters in China," the newspaper quoted a source in Oboronprom, which controls Russian Helicopters, a helicopter manufacturing group.

Mi-171 is an export version of the Mi-8 Hip helicopter, which is currently in production at two factories in Kazan and Ulan-Ude, fitted with more powerful turboshaft engines.

According to Vedomosti, the Lantian Helicopter Company, based in Sichuan province, has already received orders worth $42.8 million.

"The Chinese are planning to export [Mi-171] helicopters to Pakistan and Africa, which may hurt Russian exports," the source said. "In addition, the successful implementation of the project could leave Russian manufacturers short of component parts."

In 2007, Russian companies only built 120 Mi-171 helicopters, although they had orders for 150 aircraft, due to a shortage of transmissions and rotors, and according to estimates, there are no plans in the future to increase production for these components.

At the same time, some Russian experts believe it is better to allow the Chinese to manufacture helicopters under license rather than sit and wait until China develops its own version, modeled on Russian designs, Vedomosti said.

Baibar of Jalat · 05-12-2008

^^^

I expect there would be an agreement not to export, unless they have Russian approval. And the Russians would be wise to keep the majority of components their own.

Infra_Man99 · 05-12-2008

Interesting articles. If the news is for true, then this shows that China's military industry is changing and China's military-related industry is changing. China in the past was mostly dependent on Russia for advanced military technology, but as time as passed by, China is becoming less dependent on Russia and more dependent on itself and on other nations.

I think this is why Russia is having military trade disputes with China. Russia really regrets losing China as a huge arms customer.

Based on these news, it seems Russia is learning it must build better military deals with China. Otherwise, China will just develop its own military technologies and work with other nations.

Russia should not be too concerned about this because Russia benefits from having a China with a good arms industry. Russia and China are watching each other's backs (and watching each other, haha), so the two nations benefit when both nations have good arms industries and good armies.

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