SinoDefence Forum

Sczepan · 03-11-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by petty officer1

Intesting picture of a new chinese version black hawk

My 5 cent - its a cooperation design with Eurocopter or Agusta (Eurocopter, Agusta, Fokker ar part of the NH Industries (NHI)).

see this pix
Agusta AB 139 I-ANEW

NH-90

walter · 03-11-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeAsia2000

Is it just me or does that photo look a bit re-touched ?

Also it seems a strange design for a combat helicopter

As I stated, it is an artist's impression, not a photo.

And as tphuang already stated, the cooperation between AVICII and Eurocopter states the EC175 will be a civilian helo, but as most here seem to think, the Chinese would probably find various roles for it in the military: special forces/troop insertion, search and rescue, possible ASW variant. I personally don't see why this design looks strange for any of these roles. None of this means PLA will do any of this for sure.

tphuang · 03-14-2006

According to this, Z-15 (EC-175) is set to fly in 2009, actually it contains your ussual Chinese boasting about Harbin (HAIG)'s corporation with Eurocopter has really taken off, 8 HC-120 rolled out of HAIG in 2005. And that this EC-175 venture will make HAIG an equal partner and put HAIG at the world level in terms of manufacturing and designing. Interestingly enough, I read that China has ordered 150 EC-120 for the army http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ina/hc-120.htm
lol, it's going to take a while to produce that if the production rate continues at 8 a year.
[转载] 哈航与欧直联合制造直十五将于2009年首飞

哈航与欧直联合制造直十五将于2009年首飞

　　[国防科工委新闻宣传中心讯] 继引进直九生产专利、联合研制EC120直升机之后，哈航集团与欧洲直升机公司的第三次整机合作又全面展开 ——双方已决定各投入50%的研发费用，共同设计、研发技术先进的中型民用直十五直升机，并在哈尔滨市和法国各建一条总装生产线，在两地同时生产这种直升机，面向全球市场销售。这项合作协议已于 2005年12月5日在法国巴黎签署，双方工程技术人员目前已开始进行该型号直升机的联合设计工作，预计2 009年实现直十五首飞。
]
　　据介绍，直十五属于6吨级直升机，是目前世界上使用量较大的中型直升机，可广泛用于运输、安全、搜救等民用领域。中欧联合研制的直十五直升机将弥补我国此前在这个级别直升机生产上的空白。业内人士估计，未来1 0年内，全球6吨级直升机的市场需求会超过800架。

　　哈航集团与欧洲直升机公司的第一次合作是在上世纪80年代初，哈航从欧洲直升机公司引进了直九直升机生产专利，当时的直九机整个型号的开发设计均由法方完成。1992年开始的第二次合作，是双方联合研制EC1 20直升机，哈航在这次合作中占了24%的工作份额和项目份额，该机型的总装一直由法方独自完成，哈航集团直到2005年才建成总装生产线并于当年交付了8架机。这次合作，哈航从设计到研发再到生产，均与法方平分秋色，这标志着哈航的直升机研发和生产能力都已迈上了国际先进水平。（李志刚）

swimmerXC · 03-18-2006

新网3月
14日电据国防科工委消息，继引进直九生产专利、联合研制EC120直升机之后，哈航集团与欧洲直升机公司的第三次整机合作又全面展开——双方已决定各投入50%的研发费用，共同设计、研发技术先进的中型民用直十五直升机，并在哈尔滨市和法国各建一条总装生产线，在两地同时生产这种直升机，面向全球市场销售。

这项合作协议已于2005年12月5日在法国巴黎签署，双方工程技术人员目前已开始进行该型号直升机的联合设计工作，预计2009年实现直十五首飞。

据介绍，直十五属于6吨级直升机，是目前世界上使用量较大的中型直升机，可广泛用于运输、安全、搜救等民用领域。中欧联合研制的直十五直升机将弥补中国此前在这个级别直升机生产上的空白。业内人士估计，未来10年内，全球6吨级直升机的市场需求会超过800架。

哈航集团与欧洲直升机公司的第一次合作是在上世纪80年代初，哈航从欧洲直升机公司引进了直九直升机生产专利，当时的直九机整个型号的开发设计均由法方完成。1992年开始的第二次合作，是双方联合研制EC120 直升机，哈航在这次合作中占了24%的工作份额和项目份额，该机型的总装一直由法方独自完成，哈航集团直到 2005年才建成总装生产线并于当年交付了8架机。这次合作，哈航从设计到研发再到生产，均与法方平分秋色，这标志着哈航的直升机研发和生产能力都已迈上了国际先进水平。

Source

tphuang · 03-28-2006

On Z-9 this time, an order of two to be exported to Laos. With export orders to Pakistan, Mali and Mauritanus + Laos, Z-9 has to be the most successful Chinese helicopter program to date. On top of that, the domestic orders for Z-9G seems to be quite high.
http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2006-03-28/1504360269.html
[国防科工委新闻宣传中心讯] 2006年3月24日，哈尔滨航空工业(集团)有限公司与老挝签订了两架直九直升机出口销售合同，这是哈航集团直九直升机首次出口老挝，两架直升机将于2007年一季度交付。

　　据了解，直九直升机于1992年通过了国产化鉴定，在国内军民用领域已形成一定的使用规模，并多次配合我国南极和北极科学考察。2000年开始，直九直升机陆续出口马里、毛里塔尼亚、巴基斯坦等国。此次签订的这两架直九直升机一架为公务用机，一架为物资运输机。

sumdud · 03-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIGleader

Purchases of the mi-17 v7 will stop very soon. with the introduction of the z-8a into PLA service, the mi-17s days are numbered. Right now, the v-7 model still has superior performance to the z-8. But the z-8 has more carrying capacity(9000kg and 38 soldiers) and a new model z-8f is set to coem out, with new pratt and witney engines.

Btw,
We may be seeing a test flight of a CMH this year, and deliveries may begin in four years.

Don't be so sure, man. The Z-8A's testing has not been the best lately. It has been to my knowledge been reported failures.

Also, the Z-8A uses 3 engines, sort of too much for its specs. And 9000 kg is its normal take off weight, not payload, which is only 5000 kg external. Range is 500 km.

The V7 however uses only 2 engines, flying to I believe 890 km, holds 5 tonnes in and 6 tonnes out, 30-40 soldiers.

Practically speaking, the V7 is better still.

But of course I wouldn't mind China copying the Mi-17 and fitting them with PT6B-67A.

These copters are to me China's heavy class helicopters, while the Z-9 serves as a lightweight (and very successful) copter with excellent range.
(But fitting weapons on them is just purely impractical..... The copter doesn't do well as an AH.

Desperate.......)

BTW, who here thinks the pylons on Chinese copters should be given a wing?

tphuang · 09-14-2006

more on ec-175

Quote:

Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- European Union state aid regulators
approved 100 million euros ($127 million) of French financing to
European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. for the development of a
civilian helicopter in a joint venture with Chinese partners.
France will be permitted to finance 29 percent of the
research and development budget for the medium-sized helicopter to
be produced as soon as 2011 by EADS's Eurocopter unit, according
to the European Commission, the EU's executive arm in Brussels.
Eurocopter may have to pay back the French state, which owns
15 percent of EADS, depending on the commercial prospects of the
helicopter, according to the commission.
``Public-sector involvement would aim to reduce the
technological risk and encourage the firm to undertake more
extensive and more ambitious research,'' the commission said in a
statement today.
The EC175 will be able to fly in worse weather than current
helicopters with improved safety and less environmental impact,
the commission said. In an online newsletter, Eurocopter describes
the 16-passenger craft as designed for police, rescue and fire-
fighting duties as well as passenger transport.
``I am happy to be able to approve an aid project which
promotes research in a leading-edge technology sector,''
Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in today's statement.
Kroes has called it her top priority to overhaul business subsidy
practices, reducing such aid and steering it away from older
manufacturing industries toward faster-growing areas.

tphuang · 09-28-2006

previously, I had thought China abandonned on CMH (Chinese Medium Helicopter aka Z-12) in favour of Z-15 (EC-175), but it appears that both are ongoing and there is also another light helicopter project in development.

Quote:

China AVIC II to invest over 3 bln yuan in helicopter industry - report
BEIJING (XFN-ASIA) - China Aviation Industry Corp II (AVIC II) plans to invest
more than three bln yuan in the nation's fledgling civil helicopter industry
over the next five years, state media reported.
Citing AVIC II deputy chief engineer Ni Xianping, the China Daily said the
money will be spent on research and development, as well as cooperative projects
with foreign counterparts.
"In the next five years, we will stick to a market-oriented approach,
boosting the helicopter industry in terms of R&D and manufacturing capability,
marketing and servicing," the newspaper quoted Ni as saying.
"After figuring out our clients' specific market demands we will develop new
products and redesign existing ones to meet them," he added.
Specific projects include a new commercial helicopter, which will be
entirely self-developed, the newspaper said.
The helicopter will be certified and enter service during the 12th Five-Year
Plan period, which runs from 2011-2015. Ni did not disclose the cost of the
project, the newspaper said.
He added that AVIC II is also working on a light helicopter with a foreign
partner, without elaborating.
The company last year agreed to jointly develop a multi-purpose helicopter
with Eurocopter, an affiliate of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space
Company (EADS).
AVIC II will invest 300 mln eur in the Eurocopter program to 2015.

http://english.people.com.cn/200609/...28_307078.html

Quote:

Helicopter firm to pour US$380m into R&D
font size ZoomIn ZoomOut

China Aviation Industry Corp II (AVIC II) plans to pour more than 3 billion yuan (US$380 million) into the nation's fledgling civil helicopter industry.

The money will be spent on research and development (R&D) and co-operative projects with foreign counterparts during the 11th Five-Year Plan (2006-10).

"In the next five years, we will stick to a market-oriented approach, boosting the helicopter industry in terms of R&D and manufacturing capability, marketing and servicing," Ni Xianping, deputy chief engineer of AVIC II, the country's only State-owned helicopter maker, told China Daily.

"After figuring out our clients' specific market demands we will develop new products and redesign existing ones to meet them."

Specific projects in AVIC II's five-year plan include a brand new 5.5 to 6-ton commercial helicopter, which will be entirely self-developed, and several joint programmes with international counterparts, said Ni.

During the 10th Five-Year Plan period (2001-05), AVIC II made significant breakthroughs in mastering new key rotor, transmission and avionic systems technologies under the international China Medium Helicopter programme.

Those developments are now allowing the company to work on its new 5.5 to 6 ton multi-purpose commercial helicopter, which will fill a blank in the domestic market.

"Therefore, it will take less investment to roll out the new helicopter," said Ni, although he did not reveal how much the new project will cost.

The new helicopter will be powered by the latest version of the PT6C-67C engine, produced by Canada's Pratt & Whitney. It is intended to fulfil domestic needs for passenger and cargo transport, offshore services, and corporate use.

The major development work for this version of helicopter is scheduled to be completed during the 11th Five-Year Plan period, and the helicopter will be certified and enter service during the 12th Five-Year Plan period (2011-15).

Ni believes working on the helicopter's development themselves will enhance AVIC II's engineers' R&D capability, allowing them to grasp core technologies in helicopter design and production. Meanwhile international co-operation should provide an opportunity for China to roll out advanced products in the short-term.

The deputy chief engineer said AVIC II is currently working on a one-ton light helicopter with a foreign partner. He could not release more details due to commercial reasons.

"Negotiations are still ongoing. We expect to reach a final agreement soon," said Ni.

AVIC II last year hammered out a deal with Eurocopter, an affiliate of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, to jointly develop a multi-purpose helicopter.

The Chinese national helicopter maker will invest 300 million euros (US$360 million) in the joint programme, which it is an equal partner in, during the 11th and 12th Five-Year Plan period.

"It is, so far, the largest co-operative programme we have been involved in. The designing of the helicopter is running to schedule," said Ni.

Regarding co-operation with foreign partners, AVIC II is also working at sub-contracting manufacturing projects.

The Chinese helicopter and light aircraft maker is busy negotiating with a Western counterpart on a new outsourcing manufacturing contract. The contract will produce the airframe of a helicopter for the Western company.

"The value involved will not be significant. However, the sub-contracts will keep us well informed and updated on the latest developments in the global helicopter manufacturing industry," said Ni.

AVIC II already produces the airframe of the US Bell 430 helicopter under a sub-contract.

Besides the new helicopters AVIC II plans to make either by itself or in partnership with international counterparts, the company is also to redesign its existing products and produce more tailor-made new models catering for clients' specific demands.

The modifications and customization will involve AVIC II's flagship products, such as the Z-11, Z-11MB1, Z-9A and Z-9H425.

"We believe civil helicopters have a bright market perspective with the Beijing Olympics and Shanghai World Expo on the horizon," said Ni. "As market demand increases, the industry will provide more opportunities for further technical development."

According to AVIC II's market research, there will be a robust market demand for as many as 2,763 civil helicopters in China by 2026.

The State has made developing helicopters and other aircraft a clear priority during the 11th Five-Year Plan period. Yet despite the strong market potential, there is a big restriction on AVIC II's plans.

"The country's long-standing restriction on the use of airspace below 3,000 metres is a big concern," said Ni.

It was once reported that China is likely to open most or even all of its low-altitude airspace around 2010. But the Air Traffic Control Committee of the Central Military Commission has never confirmed the news.

AVIC II's ultimate target is to squeeze into the top level of world helicopter makers by 2020, in terms of both product portfolio and production value.

tphuang · 10-16-2006

a little more on the Chinese civilian helicopter industry

Quote:

China's aviation sector is expected to need 2,763 civil
helicopters of all types between 2006 and 2026, said Zhang
Hongbiao, general manger of the China No.2 Aviation
Industrial Corporation (CAIC).

Zhang said that his company would take about 15 years to
grapple the core technologies in helicopter design and
production, and try to make China one of the world's top
helicopter producers by 2020.

The country's helicopter industry began in 1956, and over the
past 50 years it has produced more than 800 helicopters
from 30 models. China has also participated in the design
and production of international models including the EC120,
S92 and CA109.

Note how the Chinese predicted number is far different from the Russian claim of a need for 10000 helicopters.

tphuang · 11-02-2006

China gets most of its engines from turbomeca, a little more on this. We know that Z-9 uses Arriel-2C for example
http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/D...D=b037374d-909
2-4b63-806a-1c15c3b4b001

Quote:

China: Turbomeca and Beijing Changkong Machinery form joint venture company

During Air Show China (Zhuhai, China), Turbomeca (SAFRAN Group) signed a "Joint
Venture Contract" with Beijing Changkong Machinery (AVIC II company), in view of
creating the first joint venture company between Turbomeca and an AVIC II
company: Beijing Turbomeca Changkong Aero-Engine Control Equipment Co. Ltd.

This joint venture will assemble and test hydro mechanical units of turboshaft
engines for both Turbomeca and Beijing Changkong, for their respective markets.
It will be located 50 km North of Beijing in the Chinese partner new plant,
located in a high-tech park.

Fuel Control Units (FCU) and Hydro Mechanical Units (HMU) will be assembled and
tested in this new joint venture. The joint venture entry into operation with
its relevant production agreement is targeted to be in October 2007.

Among the control system concerned, the WZ8C HMU (licensed Arriel 2C) powering
the H425 helicopter designed and produced by Harbin Aviation Industry, an AVIC
II company.

The joint venture intends to hold the JAR 21G Approval.

This agreement marks a major advance in the development of Turbomeca's
helicopter business in China and the role Turbomeca intends to play, as well as
for SAFRAN's expanding range of partnerships in the country.

In China, one helicopter out of two is equipped with Turbomeca engines or
licensed products. Today, about 500 Turbomeca engines are being operated in
China.

As a reminder, a cooperation framework agreement was signed in 2005 with AVIC II
(China Aviation Industry Corporation II), concerning the delivery of 200 Arriel
2C helicopter turboshaft engines to China, along with a partial production
license. Turbomeca and AVIC II started working together in the 1980s, with a
license for the Arriel 1 engine, initiated by China National South Aero Engine
Corporation (SAEC).

About Turbomeca

tphuang · 11-10-2006

a little bit on the 10 tonne transport helicopter I guess?

anyhow, maybe they are trying to develop something like Mi-17?

Quote:

Kyiv, November 10 (Interfax-Ukraine) - Ukraine is considering
taking part in a project to create a mid-range transport helicopter for
China, a defense establishment source told Interfax-Ukraine.
Among possible participants in the project, which is to start next
year, are the Motor-Sich (Zaporizhia), Konotop and Vinnytsia aircraft
repair plants. Russia's Mila Design Bureau is believed to be taking part
in the project as a consultant.
Currently, Motor-Sich is supplying China, under a contract
concluded in spring, its 19/64 3/643-117 3/64 13/64 engines for Mi-171(C)
helicopters
made by Russia's Ulan-Ude aircraft plant.

tphuang · 11-27-2006

this is quite an interesting article
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/Get/net/net/11280937907.htm
will translate it later
正在腾飞的中国直升机一访中航二集团直升机设计所副所长黄传跃博士

（兵工科技增刊珠展特辑）

　　本刊记者齐宇　芳妮

　　中航三集团直升机设计所（中国直升机设计研究所）是我国最大的直升机设计单位，我国许多直升机的设计都出自该所。本次航展上，引人注目的两款新型直升机一６吨级先进、中型、通用直升机和１０吨级通用运输直升机都与该所有关。这两款直升机的出现，使我国直升机技术达到了第三代甚至有些还超过了第三代的水平。为此，本刊记者采访了该所副所长黄传跃博士。

◆主要用于民用运输，但也可以军用

　　问：我们一直都很关注国内新型的６吨级通用直升机和１０吨级通用直升机，您能给我们介绍一下这两个项目的研制背景吗？
　　答：６吨级通用直升机是我们与欧直的一个合作项目。该国对此项目的型号命名为ＥＣ１７５，我们直接叫做直１５。６吨级别的通用直升机主要是面对国际市场上比较先进的民用６吨级直升机市场。

　　问：为什么要定位在６吨级这个级别上呢？
　　答：因为６吨级直升机在使用吨位方面最适合于民用运输，比如海上、油田运输等方面，我个人认为６吨级是最实用的吨位级别。太大的话，成本就要增加；太小的话，它又满足不了有效商载的要求。

　　问：那１０吨级别呢？
　　答：１０吨级别是一个比较大的通用民用运输直升机，它的背景主要是未来的运输事宜，比如油田上的运输等。

　　问：这种民用直升机有没有军用的潜力呢？
　　答：一般情况下，直升机完全可以军民两用。

　　问：这两型６吨、１０吨级直升机，相比以前的运输直升机，比如直８，在技术上有哪些进步之处？为什么要开发一种新的直升机呢？
　　答：这两型直升机技术实际上使我国达到了第三代或超过了第三代的直升机。６吨级直升机的最大特点在于它的旋翼结构，还有采用了复合材料、桨毂式升力结构形式等，都很有特色。

　　问：你能举例讲讲国产第一代、第二代、第三代直升机的相关情况吗？
　　答：前面的二代就不用讲了，现在的先进直升机都是三代机，或三代机的升级型。＂黑鹰＂直升机是二代到三代间的机型。我们现在搞的１０吨级直升机，性能肯定会超过＂黑鹰＂直升机。尤其是在使用材料方面、航电系统方面、飞控方面，肯定都会比＂黑鹰＂直升机强。６吨级民用直升机就更不用说了，在２０１２年投产的时候，它应该是世界上最先进的民用直升机。目前民用直升机上的技术，６吨级直升机都有采用，它应该能适用最新的各式航管。

　　问：按您的意思，世界上直升机目前先进的技术都能用在我们的６吨级直升机上？是否可以这样认为，在这一点上，我国的直升机设计水平已经很高了呢？
　　答：现在我国的民用直升机设计水平在世界上还不能说是最高的，因为直升机是军民通用的。只能说，我国在第三代直升机的设计上，已经掌握了相关的设计技术。现在的通用直升机项目的关键部分，比如航电、传动系统等，都是由欧直来完成的。

　　问：那动力系统呢？
　　答：动力系统是一样的，要么是法国透博梅卡发动机，要么是加拿大普惠发动机。加普惠发动机就是ＰＴ６系列的发动机。

　　问：对于军民两用技术来说，６吨级是一个很敏感的级别，如果要大量采购的话，能否用于军用？
　　答：６吨级别直升机的定位就只是民用机型。

　　问：１０吨级别的直升机呢？
　　答：也是一样的，都主要是用作运输用。除非是有什么特殊用途要求。

　　问：那它在未来能否实现搜索、救援等改装？
　　答：完全可以。

　　问：舰艇起降，也可以吗？
　　答：可以的，现在国内已有的机型还没有这种能力，但国外已大量应用了。我们正在联合研制的６吨级直升机有这种能力。

　　问：舰艇起降对直升机的降落有什么特殊要求？
　　答：对直升机的降落要求并不是太复杂。但如果是小飞机要停在小舰艇上，由于小舰艇的运动参数比较大，稍微一动，直升机的变化就特别大。因此直９就专门设计有一个＂鱼叉＂系统，降落时就可以使用，＂啪＂地插进去就可以了。

◆与欧直的合作坚持平等的原则

　　问：在跟欧直的合作中，你们主要承担哪些具体工作？
　　答：我们主要是承担旋翼和结构设计。其他方面，还承担了燃油系统等。此外，将来的许多试验工作，比如清理试验工作等都是中方的工作范围。

　　问：合作中，你们主要承担多少工作量呢？
　　答：虽然合同中说是各有５０％的合作量，但欧直的工作量应该是超过了５０％。毕竟他们的技术比我们要先进一些。

　　问：那欧直给你们都提供了什么样的技术支持？
　　答：欧直没有给我们提供什么技术支持。具体来讲，就是一架直升机劈成两半，一家一半。欧直不可能输送给我们什么技术，我们也不可能输送什么技术给欧直。

◆机体只是个平台，有需求就能改进

　　问：６吨级直升机除过搜索、救援外，能否实现反潜等工作？
　　答：实际上，直升机只是给你提供了一个平台。我们主要是设计直升机，它的运载能力是固定的，它的空间也是固定的，至于你要装什么具体的设备，那是用户的需求。比如是海岸警卫队或海上搜索队，那他们就要来和我们进行协调，我们根据他们要求的尺寸、搜索装备及其他方面的要求进行更改，这在设计时就直接留好了空间；如果他们要用于反潜，情况是一样的。总的说就是用户提要求，我们再细化和改装。

　　问：这就是说对直升机本身的大小有些要求了，只有这个平台适合才能做相适应的事情。我看有些报道说直９的４吨有些偏小了，如果是６吨级的话就应该能好些。请问国内说的６吨级别在国际上相当于其他直升机的那类级别呢？
　　答：就是６吨级别的，没有什么差别。

tphuang · 11-28-2006

translation
问：我们一直都很关注国内新型的６吨级通用直升机和１０吨级通用直升机，您能给我们介绍一下这两个项目的研制背景吗？
we are all very interested in the new 6 tonne multipurpose helicopter and 10 tonne multipurpose helicopter
　　答：６吨级通用直升机是我们与欧直的一个合作项目。该国对此项目的型号命名为ＥＣ１７５，我们直接叫做直１５。６吨级别的通用直升机主要是面对国际市场上比较先进的民用６吨级直升机市场。
6 tonne is joint venture with Eurocopter. It's called EC-175 and we call it Z-15. 6 tonne helicopter mainly is for the international market.
　　问：为什么要定位在６吨级这个级别上呢？
why choose the 6 tonne level
　　答：因为６吨级直升机在使用吨位方面最适合于民用运输，比如海上、油田运输等方面，我个人认为６吨级是最实用的吨位级别。太大的话，成本就要增加；太小的话，它又满足不了有效商载的要求。
6 tonne helicopter is most useful for civlian transportation, eg sea and oil transportation. It's the most useful tonnage class. If larger, cost of operation increases. Smaller, doesn't fulfill payload requirement
　　问：那１０吨级别呢？
what about the 10 tonne class
　　答：１０吨级别是一个比较大的通用民用运输直升机，它的背景主要是未来的运输事宜，比如油田上的运输等。
it's a large civlian multipurpose helicopter. it makes future trnasportation
　　问：这种民用直升机有没有军用的潜力呢？
any military use for this
　　答：一般情况下，直升机完全可以军民两用。
in normal situation, helicopter are dual use.
　　问：这两型６吨、１０吨级直升机，相比以前的运输直升机，比如直８，在技术上有哪些进步之处？为什么要开发一种新的直升机呢？
how do they compare with previous transportation helicopter like Z-8, what kind of improvements, why the need for new helicopter?
　　答：这两型直升机技术实际上使我国达到了第三代或超过了第三代的直升机。６吨级直升机的最大特点在于它的旋翼结构，还有采用了复合材料、桨毂式升力结构形式等，都很有特色。
these two helicopter's technology allow our nation to reach 3rd or pass 3rd generation helicopter. 6 tonne helo's specialty is its rotor struction, also uses composite materail, lift rotor and such, all are unique.
　　问：你能举例讲讲国产第一代、第二代、第三代直升机的相关情况吗？
can you talk about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation helo?
　　答：前面的二代就不用讲了，现在的先进直升机都是三代机，或三代机的升级型。＂黑鹰＂直升机是二代到三代间的机型。我们现在搞的１０吨级直升机，性能肯定会超过＂黑鹰＂直升机。尤其是在使用材料方面、航电系统方面、飞控方面，肯定都会比＂黑鹰＂直升机强。６吨级民用直升机就更不用说了，在２０１２年投产的时候，它应该是世界上最先进的民用直升机。目前民用直升机上的技术，６吨级直升机都有采用，它应该能适用最新的各式航管。
no need to talk about first 2 generations. Most advanced helo are 3rd generation. Blackhawk is a 2nd to 3rd generation helo. Our 10 tonne helo's performance will definitely exceed blackhawk, specially in material, avionics, flight control, definitely superior to blackhawk, 6 tonne helo is even better, when it is produced in 2012, it will be the world's most advanced civilian helo. the 6 tonne helo uses pretty much the world's most advanced components in every area.
　　问：按您的意思，世界上直升机目前先进的技术都能用在我们的６吨级直升机上？是否可以这样认为，在这一点上，我国的直升机设计水平已经很高了呢？
you are saying, the world's most advanced helicopter technology are going to be on our 6 onne helicopter, does that mean our helicopter design capability is very advanced?
　　答：现在我国的民用直升机设计水平在世界上还不能说是最高的，因为直升机是军民通用的。只能说，我国在第三代直升机的设计上，已经掌握了相关的设计技术。现在的通用直升机项目的关键部分，比如航电、传动系统等，都是由欧直来完成的。
our helicopter design cannot say is the best, because helicopter is for dual use. I can only say in 3rd generation helo design, we have control of enough design technology. The more important parts like rotor and avionics are all developed by Eurocopter.
　　问：那动力系统呢？
what rotor system?
　　答：动力系统是一样的，要么是法国透博梅卡发动机，要么是加拿大普惠发动机。加普惠发动机就是ＰＴ６系列的发动机。
rotor system is the same, uses France's turbomeneca engine, or Canada P&w engine. P&W engne are the PT6 series engine
　　问：对于军民两用技术来说，６吨级是一个很敏感的级别，如果要大量采购的话，能否用于军用？
6 tonne is a sensitive class. For large purchase, is it possible for military usage
　　答：６吨级别直升机的定位就只是民用机型。
6 tonne helo's use is for civilian model
　　问：１０吨级别的直升机呢？
what about 10 tonne?
　　答：也是一样的，都主要是用作运输用。除非是有什么特殊用途要求。
mostly transportation unless there is special requirements?
　　问：那它在未来能否实现搜索、救援等改装？
what about search and rescue and such modification?
　　答：完全可以。
can definitely do so.
　　问：舰艇起降，也可以吗？
can takeoff from ships?
　　答：可以的，现在国内已有的机型还没有这种能力，但国外已大量应用了。我们正在联合研制的６吨级直升机有这种能力。
definitely, currently, our helicopters don't have this capability, but for international use, the 6 tonne helo will have this.
　　问：舰艇起降对直升机的降落有什么特殊要求？
what kind of added requirements are there?
　　答：对直升机的降落要求并不是太复杂。但如果是小飞机要停在小舰艇上，由于小舰艇的运动参数比较大，稍微一动，直升机的变化就特别大。因此直９就专门设计有一个＂鱼叉＂系统，降落时就可以使用，＂啪＂地插进去就可以了。
liftoff/landing aren't too complex. But if a small helicopter stays on a small ship, since small ship mobility is huge, a little shake and helicopter changes? That's why Z-9 uses a harpooning system, that lifoff/landing can use.
◆与欧直的合作坚持平等的原则

　　问：在跟欧直的合作中，你们主要承担哪些具体工作？
with Eurocopter, what do we do?
　　答：我们主要是承担旋翼和结构设计。其他方面，还承担了燃油系统等。此外，将来的许多试验工作，比如清理试验工作等都是中方的工作范围。
we mainly do the tail, structure design, also fuel usage system, also, in the future, a lot of testing. We do the easier work.
　　问：合作中，你们主要承担多少工作量呢？
how much design work do we do?
　　答：虽然合同中说是各有５０％的合作量，但欧直的工作量应该是超过了５０％。毕竟他们的技术比我们要先进一些。
it says 50/50, but Eurocopter's work is over 50%, their technology is superior to ours.
　　问：那欧直给你们都提供了什么样的技术支持？
what technology has eurocopter provided you
　　答：欧直没有给我们提供什么技术支持。具体来讲，就是一架直升机劈成两半，一家一半。欧直不可能输送给我们什么技术，我们也不可能输送什么技术给欧直。
they didn't provide us with any special technology, each party has their own share of the work, we don't provide technology to each other.
◆机体只是个平台，有需求就能改进

　　问：６吨级直升机除过搜索、救援外，能否实现反潜等工作？
can 6 tonne helo do search, rescue and even ASW?
　　答：实际上，直升机只是给你提供了一个平台。我们主要是设计直升机，它的运载能力是固定的，它的空间也是固定的，至于你要装什么具体的设备，那是用户的需求。比如是海岸警卫队或海上搜索队，那他们就要来和我们进行协调，我们根据他们要求的尺寸、搜索装备及其他方面的要求进行更改，这在设计时就直接留好了空间；如果他们要用于反潜，情况是一样的。总的说就是用户提要求，我们再细化和改装。
helicopter is just a platform, we design helicopter, its transportation capability is set and space is set, as for fitting what kind of equipment, that's for customers. for coast guard and sea search team, we will make adjustment. We use the customer's requirments to do the necessary changes. as for ASW, the situation is the same, we change depending on customer requirements.
　　问：这就是说对直升机本身的大小有些要求了，只有这个平台适合才能做相适应的事情。我看有些报道说直９的４吨有些偏小了，如果是６吨级的话就应该能好些。请问国内说的６吨级别在国际上相当于其他直升机的那类级别呢？
I read somewhere that says Z-9's 4 tonne is a little small, if 6 tonne is more fitting, how does our 6 tonne class compare to helicopter class in the international scene.
　　答：就是６吨级别的，没有什么差别。
it's 6 tonne class, there is no difference.

tphuang · 02-28-2007

Quote:

Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E Engine to Power EC175/Z15 Helicopter

HELI-EXPO 2007, ORLANDO, FLORIDA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 02/28/07 --
Pratt & Whitney Canada Corp.'s (P&WC) new generation PT6C-67E engine
was confirmed today to power the EC175/Z15 medium-sized helicopter,
being developed by Eurocopter and Harbin Aviation Industry Group, a
subsidiary of China's AVIC II corporation. P&WC is a United
Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX) company.

"This is a great program for our PT6C-67E engine," says Keyvan Fard,
Vice President, Regional Airlines & Helicopter Engines, P&WC. "This
engine is now equipped with a dual-channel full-authority digital
electronic control (FADEC) system, which offers reduced pilot
workload along with increased dispatch reliability."

The PT6C-67E is the latest derivative of the world-renowned PT6
turboprop/turboshaft family, recognized for its outstanding
reliability and durability. Already installed on the Agusta Westland
AW139 helicopter and Bell/Agusta Aerospace BA609 Tiltrotor, the
PT6C-67 family of engines is helping to redefine the medium
helicopter category.
"The PT6C series, rated from 1,600 to 2,000 shp, is designed with the
operator in mind," says Fard. "It also offers among the lowest
maintenance costs and emission levels in the industry. As is the case
with all our engines, it is backed by P&WC's extensive global
customer support network, ranked No. 1 for helicopter engine support
by the industry for the last seven years."

P&WC's customer support includes over 30 P&WC-owned and designated
overhaul facilities, field support representatives strategically
located on all major continents, mobile repair teams available around
the clock, the largest pool of P&WC rental and exchange engines in
the industry, a global network for accelerated distribution of parts
and a 24-hour customer help desk offering fast and expert support.

Pratt & Whitney Canada, based in Longueuil, Quebec, is a world leader
in the design, manufacture and service of aircraft engines powering
business, general aviation and regional aircraft, and helicopters.
The company also offers auxiliary power units and industrial gas
turbines. United Technologies, based in Hartford, Conn., is a
diversified company providing high technology products and services
to the global aerospace and building industries.

Great news, Z-15 is hooked up with PT6C-67E. Z-10 is using PT6C-67C as we said from before. The 1600 to 2000 shp should give Z-15 plenty of power for whatever applications it needs to do.

optionsss · 03-02-2007

Quote:

　答：６吨级通用直升机是我们与欧直的一个合作项目。该国对此项目的型号命名为ＥＣ１７５，我们直接叫做直１５。６吨级别的通用直升机主要是面对国际市场上比较先进的民用６吨级直升机市场。
6 tonne is joint venture with Eurocopter. It's called EC-175 and we call it Z-15. 6 tonne helicopter mainly is for the international market.

The guy really did not say too much about that 10 ton helo, does anybody know more about it? If it can be comparable to the CH-53 Sea Stallion, then it would be a huge lift to the PLAN's ASW capabilities. But it still can be quit useful if the helo can transport things in the rough Tibet terrans. Assuming that was what the person meant by better then Black Hawk

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