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Chinese Aviation Industry

This is a discussion on Chinese Aviation Industry within the Air Force forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; I think he meant 零件配套, Parts and Components....

  1. #61
    lcloo is offline Member
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    Aug 2009

    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    I think he meant 零件配套, Parts and Components.

  2. #62
    maozedong is offline Banned Idiot
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    Jul 2006

    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    I heard that WS-10a already stop to used.
    China In Guizhou Province has created - large engines industry base.

    here is another news: October 23, China's aviation industry Chang Fei company success delivered to U.S. Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation the first aircraft S-76C - medium-sized helicopter. Its successful delivery is Chang Fei with Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation to work together is another fruit of 15 years, indicating that the two sides all-round strategic cooperation has entered a new stage of development.

    中国航空在线 >> 航空新闻 >> 中航要闻

  3. #63
    tphuang's Avatar
    tphuang is offline Super Moderator
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    Aug 2005

    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    that S-76 news was already posted in the helo thread.

    anyhow, regarding C-919, posted by maya on CDF


    It basically said that they are producing a mockup for the head of C919. And this is done by CAC.

  4. #64
    Engineer's Avatar
    Engineer is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    Wow... that was quick.

    Let's hope the C-919 will be truly domestically designed and packed with domestically-built avionics, and will not be a repeat of that sorry excuse called ARJ-21.

  5. #65
    A.Man is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    C919 Detailed design for the first time Exposure: comfort beyond the Boeing 737


    Google Translation

    C919 designed to establish a "five" of requirements: to ensure the security, outstanding economy, improve reliability, improve comfort, emphasizing environmental protection.

    Striving "youngest"

    September 8, AsiaAirshow7 stand, a large blue and white aircraft models eye-catching. This is a big eye-aircraft company was founded 16 months since the surrender of the first papers.

    By a commitment to civil GreatAircraftDevelopment of heavy commercial aircraft in China limited liability company developed its own model plane named "C919", according to the Chinese deputy general manager of commercial flying large aircraft program chief architect WU Guang-hui of interpretation, C is the first letter of China is China Business flying abbreviation COMAC the first letter of the previous nine meaning everlasting taken, followed by 19 shows that theAirlinerMaximum passenger capacity of 190.

    From the 1:10 ratio produced a model of view, about 2 meters more than the fuselage precursors pass white, blue and white tail, tail to grass green and write on the eye-catching "C919".

    According to the Chinese business to Shanghai Aircraft Design Institute GUO Bo-chi introduction, C919 aircraft are in shortBusinessMachine, the actualTotal length of 38 meters, wingspan of 33 meters, height of 12 meters, the basic layout for the 168 model. Standard of a range of 4075 kilometers, increasing the range of 5555 kilometersAnd economic life of 90000 flight hours.

    The aircraft began last yearDevelopmentPlans by the end of 2014 its maiden flight in 2016 and delivered to the user to obtain a certificate of airworthiness. C919 aircraft's development objective is for the 8-10 years after the civil aviation market to provide a safe, comfortable, energy saving, environmental protection, competitive business in the short-range single-channel transport. Positioning in the market to China as a starting point, taking into account the foreign market, providing multi-level, multi-range products.

    The world only the United States, Europe, 4 countries, and Russia that the total take-off weight more than 100 tons of the transport aircraft, including military, civilian large transport aircraft, including more than 150 aircraft trunk. Which occupy the international market, only the United States, Boeing and Europe's Airbus. The past 20 years, China's large aircraft entirely dependent on foreign imports.

    Based on detailed design drawings, C919 aircraft length 38.575 meters, a wingspan of 36.077 meters, height of 12.564 meters, and the Boeing B-737, Airbus A-320 is roughly equal size.

    As Airbus and Boeing respectively, the first letter "A", "B", China-made large aircraft types to be known as "C919", also shows China's business fly with Airbus and Boeing aircraft manufacturing industry in the international large-scale formation of ABC " tripod, "a new pattern of ambition. The Asian air show, China's commercial flying booth located in Hall 7, the most among the passengers on the left is an empty booth, right next to Boeing.

    The majority of lay members have an intuitive sense of C919 and Airbus A320, Boeing 737 similar appearance, but had participated in regional jet ARJ supplier management, General Manager, Guangdong Changsheng Aircraft Design Co., Zhou Ji, he still could see them different.

    "The biggest difference in the nose, the traditional head, as well as two from the front side windshield composed of four, while the C919 less side two windshield." Zhou Ji of Health to the "Business Weekly" said that the Chinese-made large aircraft The nose is more streamlined, can reduce the resistance, while the vision of pilots in the cockpit is also more spacious than the traditional nose. From this we can see, China-made large aircraft fuel efficiency and economy will put more stress.

    According to Chen Jin, introduction, C919 does have many advantages. C919 from the nose, wings to the tail, engine, both in the design effort, and minimize resistance, effectively reduce fuel consumption.

    The use of materials, C919 will be used a lot of advanced composite materials such as aluminum-lithium alloys, titanium, etc., in which the use of composite materials will reach 20%, then through the details of the internal structure of the aircraft design, the weight of the aircraft down compression.

    C919 cabin comfort is the primary objective of the design, seating layout in the entire economy class cabin layout, the arrangement "3 +3" the layout of a total of 28 rows, a total of 168, in the mixed layout, arrange business class "2 +2" the layout of a total of 6 row, 24; economy class layout of 22 rows, 132, a total of 156.

    At the same time, due to extensive use of composite materials, compared with the same type of foreign aircraft and 80 dB of cabin noise, C919 will be reduced cabin noise below 60 decibels.

    Emissions reduction, C919 will be a green emissions and adapt to environmental requirements of advanced aircraft, through the environmental protection design concept is expected to aircraft carbon emissions reduced by 50% compared with the same aircraft.

    Speaking of the cabin passengers are most concerned about the environment, Chen Jin said, comfort is the primary objective of C919 cabin design. Cabin seating layout will use the single-channel, three on each side, in which the middle-seat space will widen, thus effectively easing the past, take the middle seat passenger crowded feeling.

    In addition, C919 aircraft will be compared with similar foreign aircraft cabin size increased, increasing the height of the luggage compartment location.

    Chen Chin-view, because of China's purchasing costs and manufacturing costs than Boeing and Airbus companies is low, Chinese-made large aircraft will be the first aircraft, "Boeing and Airbus would surely be much cheaper the same model."

    "China's domestic market is sufficient to meet China's demand for large aircraft sales, so we do not hurry the development of foreign markets, but sooner or later, China's large aircraft will enter the European and U.S. aviation market." He said.

    This means that in the fast-growing Chinese aviation market, Boeing and Airbus will face more intense competition. Boeing recently released 2009 market outlook, in order to cope with challenges and competition that may arise, in particular, proposed to increase the intensity of the 737 technology upgrades to further increase fuel efficiency.

    For the passengers, C919 aircraft and B737, A320 The biggest difference is the cabin sizes increase, the economy class passengers can enjoy business class passenger comfort.

    Engine go hand in hand

    Despite China's high-profile launch of commercial flying C919 prototype, but as chief designer of the WU Guang-hui continues to be extremely low-key. In an interview with "Business Week" interview, he has always refused to evaluate the prototype, but said the large aircraft development is progressing well.

    For WU Guang-hui, the more special significance are the C919 prototype model show a week before the first day.

    At 9:30 on September 1, C919 aircraft nose large prototype aircraft in the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Co., Ltd. started production. WU Guang-hui introduction, head length 7.9 meters wide and 3.96 meters, 4.16 meters high, including the radar cabin, cockpit, toilet, kitchen as well as the cockpit, is expected to deliver by year's end.

    Cheng Fei, according to the persons concerned, at present, C919 nose engineering sample of large passenger aircraft project is on schedule to carry out the work, components will be conducted in mid-October opening riveting, is expected to deliver by the end of December this year in Shanghai, in September next year, the prototype is expected in Shanghai, external public display. In addition, from 2014 onwards, a large aircraft flying into the nose of years of manufacturing capacity will reach 10.

    However, this does not mean that China's own big aircraft projects have made substantial progress.

    "In fact the production of the prototype into a flying head is just a shell." CNAC industry insider who asked not to be named, told the "Business Weekly", large aircraft, the current basic program, the concept has been out, but a lot of the design of specific Details are still more than the election, we need to build up structure after the final determination, made the production of prototype flying the main purpose of the nose is used to coordinate the layout.

    According to the person in charge, the current head are used in conventional materials, not composite materials, and no suppliers to participate. For the C919 model, he said, made such a model is mainly to provide public information, technical process is actually very easy.

    Their "business in China, the primary task of flying in front, or the choice of suppliers." The person in charge said.

    Now completed its first flight of the regional jet ARJ21-700, in the engine, electronic control systems and other key components, since the domestic product is temporarily not meet the technical requirements, the localization rate is very low. The Chinese once said Zhang Qingwei, general manager of commercial flying large aircraft program to maximize the localization rate.

    Indeed, many domestic companies from large aircraft, assigned to a piece of the project.

    In addition to the nose section manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft, Hongdu Aviation Industry Group's commitment to the first large aircraft fuselage, aft fuselage body structure in the manufacture, XAC has won in the fuselage (including the Central Wing), outer warily boxes (with a fixed pre - post-edge), flaps, trailing edge flaps, leading edge slats, spoilers and other six work packages, Shen Fei Mi will fly with the Chinese supplier to design and cooperation, and Hafei will provide a composite body , Chang received a share of the small flying wing spoiler and other parts of the development and production tasks.

    However, constrained by lack of domestic manufacturing capacity, largeAircraftA large number of manufacturing sectors still need to resort to a global package, especially the engine.

    This year in January,CNACCommercial Aircraft Engine Co., Ltd. formally established in Shanghai with registered capital of 60 billion yuan, the China Aviation Industry Corporation as the controlling shareholder, accounting for 40% stake in Shanghai Electric (Group) Corporation and Shanghai Guosheng (Group) Co., Ltd. as the equity shareholders of investor a 15% stake each. Company's business include civil aircraft, engines and related products design,Development, Production, sales, maintenance, service, technology development and technology consulting. This indicates that, following General Electric, Rolls - Royce, and the three major aircraft engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney, the Chinese enterprises have also begun to impact the large-scaleAirlinerEngine project.

    However, due to time constraints, China's large aircraft project at the initial stage will certainly use foreign engines. At present, the Pratt & Whitney, General Electric and France's Snecma joint venture CFM and CNACGroupTogether, become a major aircraft engine and related power plant supplier candidates. It is understood that this year will be finalized before the end of the final supplier.

    Flying in commercial aircraft engines, said Zhang Jian, general manager, domestic-made large aircraft engine when loading commenced commercial supply, depending on customer demand. Issued by the shipping companies goal is not only providing products for the China-made large aircraft, but also a variety of aircraft for domestic and foreign manufacturers of products. Variety on the plane, in addition to 150 aircraft, will also meet the executive jets, dual-channel 250 large aircraft, regional aircraft, civil helicopters, propeller aircraft needs. At present, shipping companies made the first developed with independent intellectual property rights 3200 kilograms thrust on the Richter scale bypass ratio turbofan engine prototype is expected to be completed by the end of this year, this can be used for a new boat engine turboprop regional aircraft and business jet family.

    Orders for the C919 issue, Chen Jin appeared to be very cautious, he was "Business Weekly" said, C919 progress and the development of new aircraft orders for the world's an unbreakable connection between the production volume will be in accordance with market demand, the model at the current Asian is only a preliminary prototype of an open air show, order the question premature.

  6. #66
    bd popeye's Avatar
    bd popeye is offline The Last Jedi
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    Aug 2005
    Cedar Rapids Iowa

    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    I feel this is the best place to post this story. Interesting read!

    Foreign pilots reach for the sky in China|Cover Story|

    Roy Weinberg, once a pilot with US Airways, is now a captain for Spring Airlines in China. [Photo by Gao Erqiang / China Daily]
    Job opportunities soar as airlines expand, Shi Yingying reports in Shanghai, Xin Dingding and Jiang Xueqing in Beijing.

    After spending much of his career with the same airline, Roy Weinberg was, not to put too fine a point on it, bored.

    So, about a year ago, the 48-year-old quit his job with US Airways and moved to Shanghai to work as a captain for Spring Airlines.

    "I had been doing the same job for 20 years and have another 15 years to go," said Weinberg, who moved to Shanghai before bringing his family of four along.

    "I said to myself, 'It's too boring. Let's do something else for a few years and then come back'."

    He is not alone. Many of his aviator friends are now flying for airlines in Chengdu and Beijing, he said.

    The companies, he said, have a strong demand for foreign pilots, especially younger ones. Spring Airlines, for example, employs a team of 30 foreign pilots, and Hainan Airlines has 46.

    By the beginning of 2011, China was home to at least 1,300 foreign flight captains, according to Li Jiaxiang, director of the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

    With the expansion of Chinese airlines, a serious shortage of talent has arisen. By 2015, China's aviation industry is expected to need 18,000 more pilots, according to China Business News.

    "One of the chief reasons why we are desperate for foreign pilots lies in the long amount of time it takes to prepare our own aviation workers," said Zhang Wu'an, spokesman for Spring Airlines. Training a flight captain in China takes about 10 years, he said.

    "Water that's far away doesn't do you much good if you are thirsty now," he said. "The quickest way to supply our needs turned out to be to hire foreign pilots."

    A senior manager of a mainland cargo airline, who did not want to give his name, said that when the company was faced with a shortage of flight captains, it quickly began to recruit foreigners.

    At a time when more and more air cargo is being transported in China, planes keep being added to the company's fleet and the demand for flight personnel continues to increase. In 2006, the company recruited eight foreign captains.

    Between 2009 and 2010, when a group of Chinese flight captains retired, the company found itself without enough personnel to fly its planes. Its demand for foreign workers increased accordingly.

    China's system for training pilots requires student to spend about 10 years preparing to become a captain permitted to fly a wide-body plane such as a Boeing 747 or 777, the manager said.

    "Even if we had begun to train pilots when the company was founded, we still would not have as many captains as we need," he said.

    So the airline went out looking for pilots from other countries. During the recent economic downturn, airlines in Japan, the US and other places cut jobs, giving Chinese airlines an opportunity to recruit large numbers of personnel.

    Without much trouble, the company signed contracts with airline captains from more than 10 countries and regions, including Japan, South Korea, Europe and South America. Now more than 50 foreign captains work for the airline, making up 50 percent of the captains and 25 percent of the pilots there. The company plans to keep expanding its fleet in the next four years and eventually hire as many as 120 foreign captains, he said.

    Because of the need for pilots, Chinese companies are willing to pay foreign airline captains "more than what they're worth", Weinberg said.

    According to Zhang Wu'an, spokesman for Spring Airlines, Spring Airlines offers foreign pilots from $150,000 to $160,000 a year after taxes. The salaries of Chinese pilots, in contrast, usually come to between $93,250 and $108,800 a year.

    The anonymous senior manager said Japanese and South Korean airline captains find their after-tax earnings in China are higher than they would be in their home countries.

    "Foreigners are willing to come (to China) in part because they believe there will continue to be a strong demand here for air transport, which will give them a stable job," he continued.

    What's more, the price of food and many other goods remains fairly low in China, which makes life easier for foreigners. And they often enjoy better terms of employment.

    Unlike their Chinese counterparts, who usually sign a 15-year contract with an airline, foreign pilots can sign agreements obliging them to work from one year to three years with a company.

    He said foreigners are valued because they can help Chinese pilots learn more about international flight routes and English.

    "Even if we will have enough Chinese captains one day, foreign captains are still likely to amount for 20 percent of the total (we employ)," he said. "Such a workforce composition will help to improve the whole team."

    In the US and most of the Western world, the oldest pilots and those with the most seniority at a particular airline are given the greatest amount of leeway to pick their own schedules, Weinberg said. That system used to be a cause of annoyance to many of his younger friends who now fly for Chinese airlines.

    "Back in the US, their schedules weren't so good," he said. "That's why they took a leave to fly in China until they get better pay."

    Chinese airlines prefer to hire young pilots in part because the country's retirement age in that profession is 60, five years in advance of what the age is in most other places in the world. The youngest foreign captains at Spring Airlines are in their 30s, said Xiao Fei, who works for the airlines' foreign pilot and student pilot management office.

    Despite the increasing number of foreign pilots in China, the public had not paid much attention to them until a recent incident involving a South Korean caught its notice.

    On Aug 13, the captain of a Juneyao Airlines flight ignored instructions coming from air traffic controllers at the Shanghai Hongqiao airport and refused to delay his own landing to give another aircraft time to make an emergency touchdown. The pilots of both planes said they were about to run out of fuel.

    But an investigation by the Civil Aviation Administration of China found that the Juneyao Airbus 320-200 contained enough fuel to stay in the air for another 42 minutes, while the Qatar Airways Boeing 777-300ER could only remain in flight for 18 minutes.

    Found to be in the wrong, the captain of the Juneyao flight was banned from continuing to work as a pilot in China. Among other punishments, the company is now prohibited from pursuing its expansion plans or hiring foreign workers.

    Weinberg said the incident should be taken as a sign that China should improve the system it uses to ensure the safety of passengers and flight crews, rather than simply as something the captain should be punished for.

    "This incident is a perfect example to show that more than one person needs to take responsibility," he said.

    "There were lots of things that happened that created the situation. It wasn't one person making one decision at one time. It was a large event. In China, a captain is always the one who gets in trouble, while in America, everybody takes responsibility."

    Why, Weinberg asked, isn't anyone looking at the part played in the incident by the air control officer who spoke to the pilot? He knew the person he was speaking to was a foreigner yet still spoke only in Chinese.

    "It happened to me before," he continued. "They always speak Chinese to me. My first officer has to interpret for me since I don't know Chinese."

    Zhang Qihuai, an aviation law expert with the Beijing-based Lan Peng Law Firm, later verified Weinberg's statement by saying "language turned out to be one of the chief causes of the incident".

    Even though English has been designated as the official language to be used in communications about international flights, as well flights to Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou in China, Xiao said air controllers still speak Chinese to foreign pilots during peak flight hours.

    "What happened to me many times is that everybody around me is getting commands in Chinese, and I'm the only English-speaking (pilot) in the air," Weinberg said. "They speak to me in English, but speak to everybody else in Chinese. I don't know what's happening since I don't know what other airplanes around me are doing."

    If even one pilot is speaking English on airline radios, air traffic controllers should speak English to everyone else who is flying nearby, he said.

    To prevent an incident like the one involving the South Korean from occurring, he said China should review the system it uses to ensure the safety of flights.

    "Punishing one pilot doesn't solve any problem," he said.

    Huang Yimin contributed to this report.
    Be sure to check out...

    Chinese Daily Photos 2014!

    "I am what I am.... Dat's all what I am"

  7. #67
    delft is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    The problem of French air traffic control speaking French to everyone except for the few foreigners who were spoken to in English and who consequently didn't know what everyone else knew caused problems as late as fifteen or twenty years ago.
    I don't really know that the problem has been solved yet. I suppose it is.

  8. #68
    Deino's Avatar
    Deino is offline Super Moderator
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    Just a maybe silly question, but in mind of the "October 1" today as China's national day ... what's the chance of any mayor unveiling today ??? ... like SAC's new fighter, the Y-20's roll out .... come on !


  9. #69
    escobar's Avatar
    escobar is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    the major unveiling was tiangong-1 space lab launch

  10. #70
    Schumacher is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Just a maybe silly question, but in mind of the "October 1" today as China's national day ... what's the chance of any mayor unveiling today ??? ... like SAC's new fighter, the Y-20's roll out .... come on !

    SAC's J-XX & the Y20 should be next year but there are talks of SAC's Strike (Silent ??) J11BS flying these few days.

  11. #71
    Deino's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Schumacher View Post
    SAC's J-XX & the Y20 should be next year but there are talks of SAC's Strike (Silent ??) J11BS flying these few days.
    Hmmm ... any guess of how reliable these rumours are ?? (like the ones before the J-20 had its maiden flight ?) ... and what are the chances of photos then ? Will SAC use this even to gain some good-promotion and PR or will it be secret until a friendly and courageous spotter shots & posts some photos !?


  12. #72
    Geographer's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    The problem of French air traffic control speaking French to everyone except for the few foreigners who were spoken to in English and who consequently didn't know what everyone else knew caused problems as late as fifteen or twenty years ago.
    I don't really know that the problem has been solved yet. I suppose it is.
    When there is a foreign captain at a Chinese airline, wouldn't the co-pilot most likely be Chinese? The co-pilot can help interpret Chinese. Although this further burdens the co-pilot when they are already busy during landing and take-off.

  13. #73
    CottageLV is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    This whole project is more about not losing money than making money, since China spends hundreds of billions on passenger acquisition each year.

  14. #74
    delft is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

    A joint venture between Russian Helicopters and Avic’s helicopter division is mentioned in this article:
    Russia and China Establish Joint Venture For Helicopters | Aviation International News
    "The joint venture, Sino-Russian Helicopter Services, will initially provide technical support to all Russian helicopter models operating in China. It will subsequently develop repair and overhaul, and final assembly capabilities."
    Equation likes this.

  15. #75
    A.Man is offline Senior Member
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    Re: Chinese Aviation Industry

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