Chinese Aviation Industry

COMAC C919 Plane Program on Schedule, Engine Supplier CFM Says

Chaker A. Chahrour, executive vice president of CFM International, comments on Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China Ltd.'s C919, the nation's first large passenger aircraft program. He spoke in Beijing yesterday.

CFM International, a venture between General Electric Co. and Safran SA, supplies engines for the C919, set for test flights in 2014. COMAC, as the planemaker is known, is also developing the ARJ21, a 90-seat regional jet that has been delayed for about five years.

"ARJ is behind schedule for whatever reason, but I really don't see too many associations between ARJ and the C919 schedule directly. The teams that run ARJ and C919 are totally independent teams. We monitor the C919 program very closely; we haven't seen any indication that there will be delays that's similar to where the ARJ program is. So we have confidence in COMAC. We think they will be on schedule, we ask them about it just about every day."

A call to COMAC's press office in Shanghai seeking comment wasn't answered today.

Chinese Plane Maker to Sell 5 MA Family Aircraft to Djibouti

Xi'an Aircraft International Corporation (XAIC) Friday signed a sales contract with the government of the Republic of Djibouti for 5 Modern Ark (MA) family aircraft, including two MA60s, according to a statement posted on the plane maker's website on Tuesday.

This order marks a new breakthrough for XAIC's sales in Northeast Africa following plane orders signed with Eritrea and the Republic of Yemen.

Wing Cracks, Other Flaws Delay China Jet Manufacture

When China set a goal to leap from being a tiny aerospace-industry player to a direct threat to Airbus and Boeing, few scoffed at the idea, given Beijing's track record of using deep government pockets to push state-owned firms up the ladder.

But as leaders of the global aerospace industry gather in Beijing for an International Air Transport Association meeting that kicks off on Sunday, a closer examination by Reuters shows that the potential challenge from China might be greatly overblown, and that its aircraft sector is unlikely to pose any credible competition for at least a decade.

To start with, a host of design flaws have delayed approval by the Civil Aviation Administration of China for the country's first homegrown passenger jet - a 90-seat ARJ21 "regional" plane.

That in turn is likely to set back the country's bigger ambition, to dent Airbus and Boeing's global stronghold with a 737-sized airplane of its own.

In interviews with executives from three different technology suppliers working with Commercial Aircraft Corp of China (COMAC) to develop passenger jets, Reuters has learned that various tests over the past two years have identified flaws in the ARJ21's wings, wiring and computer systems.

During a stress test in mid-2010, the wings of the ARJ21 broke, or "cracked" in one executive's description, before the pressure applied reached regulatory norms.

In further examinations conducted last year, the avionics system -- the brain of the plane -- failed at times to work properly, highlighting what one of the three suppliers executives described as a "system integration problem." Faults in the wiring were also discovered in those tests, according to the supplier executives.

The results of the tests have been rumoured among industry insiders, but the Shanghai-based aircraft maker has never spoken publicly about them.

"You should have seen the faces (of COMAC engineers and executives)" said one of the three suppliers, who was at the 2010 test in a lab in the central Chinese city of Xi'an, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There was uncomfortable silence in the room."

COMAC declined to comment on the matters raised in this report. But it said one version of the plane -- the ARJ21-700 -- completed a nearly two-hour test flight in February this year.

China's civil aviation regulator could not be reached for comment.

More Tests

The ARJ21's troubles are more than a blow to Chinese pride. They highlight the country's struggle to become a producer of high-tech items from bullet trains to large commercial jetliners.

Indeed, recent experience shows that money does not guarantee success in high-tech industries. A rail accident in July 2011 killed 40 people, undermining China's portrayal of the rapid expansion of its high-speed railway network as a sign of its growing technological might.

COMAC's plane, which was designed to compete with models from Canada's Bombardier Inc. and Embraer SA of Brazil, is undergoing more tests.

A COMAC official said last month the ARJ21, which is central to Beijing's aerospace push, was unlikely to win regulatory approval before 2013, putting the project about five years behind its original schedule, without offering a reason.

The delays and difficulties are likely to set back COMAC's larger ambition - to start delivering the 160-seat C919 jetliner by 2016, a timetable that would have put it on track by the second half of the decade to challenge Airbus and Boeing's dominance of the global market for large passenger aircraft.

"There is the very serious risk that by the time the C919 enters service (we think three years late is a good estimate), Airbus and Boeing are offering products that make this jet look obsolete," wrote Richard Aboulafia of U.S.-based consulting firm Teal Group Corp. in a research report.

"It would be wrong to dismiss a threat from any competitor, but it may have been wildly overblown" in the case of COMAC, said a senior Boeing executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

COMAC has never publicly explained the project's delays.

The firm's chief financial officer Tian Min told Reuters last month the company was still on track to gain certification for the C919 by 2016, as originally scheduled. He did not elaborate.

Securing regulatory approval for the C919 by 2016 would, in theory, give COMAC a jump of about half a decade over Airbus and Boeing, which do not plan to launch completely redesigned A320 and B737 planes respectively until around 2020.

But the ARJ21's delay could squander that time advantage, since the effort to fix its problems would hinder the ability to design the C919 on schedule.

Also, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration says it would not consider accepting China's certification for the C919 until it completes a technical pilot assessment of the capability of its Chinese counterpart to certify the ARJ21 to FAA's airworthiness requirements.

FAA certification, which is recognised globally, is critical if the C919 is to succeed in the international market...

Airbus Tianjin Factory to Deliver 100th A320 in September

Airbus' final assembly line at its Tianjin, China, factory is scheduled to deliver its 100th A320 this fall but the manufacturer has yet to secure a partner for its continued operation past 2016.

"We [have] already delivered 89 aircraft since our first one on June 23, 2009," Airbus president-China Laurence Barron told journalists in Beijing this week. This year, 38 aircraft will be delivered - including the first one to a non-Chinese airline, AirAsia. "Our target is to deliver four aircraft per month and a total of 47 aircraft in 2013," Barron said.

However, the Tianjin factory -- a joint venture between Airbus and partners including China Aviation Industry Corps. (AVIC I and II) and Tianjin Free Trade Zone -- faces an uncertain future in 2016 when its contract expires after the delivery of its 284th aircraft. The factory opened in September 2008; as of March, Airbus had delivered 80 A320 family airliners assembled in Tianjin.

"This year, the company will breakeven, Barron said, adding the manufacturer has started talks with its partners about the factory's future. "We will wait and see what happens," he said.

As the Chinese market continues to grow, Barron said mainlandChina has become the world's second market for new aircraft deliveries after the U.S. "And it is getting close to number one. Mainland China will need 3,832 new passenger and freighter aircraft over the next 20 years, which is a market value of US$509 billion - a very significant market for us," he said.

Chinese carriers operate 805 Airbus aircraft in China. The European manufacturer has 15 Chinese customers and orders for 356 aircraft, mainly A320s. However, Barron said Airbus is seeing a demand for very large aircraft, such as the A380, but so far China Southern is the only Chinese carrier to order the type.

The A330 is becoming popular with Chinese carriers, which have around 100 of the type in service and 71 orders. Barron told ATW there are no plans to produce the A330 in China.

The Chinese government has blocked 45 A330 orders for Chinese carriers because of the escalating dispute over the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme carbon tax.

really good to see Chinese aviation industry making headway into the international market

Modern Arc series of aircraft has been very sucessful in the foreign markets

Originally Posted by i.e.

They are just not ready.

also the neo & max news

It will be couple of years of slip. but it is just as well because some the their technology has not matured to a point where it is useful.

The reason C919 is competitive is because it can come earlier than the re-engined neo and max. by about 5 years.

but if it is going to slip anyways it might as well be a full fledge competitor.

it will be competitive as long as it is demonstrated to be safe.

It sounds like CFM is having some delays on the Leap-X as well, since they have just announced that the design has been completed, test flight of the engine won't happen until 2014, so C919 will have to be delayed, but CFM is confident of a 2016 date for the engine to be ready for commercial service.

Originally Posted by escobar

Wing Cracks, Other Flaws Delay China Jet Manufacture

Indeed, recent experience shows that money does not guarantee success in high-tech industries.

Of course not. You need lots of know-how and good scientists with experience. Thats something that money cant buy. You need many years of hard effort to get them.

Originally Posted by kroko

Of course not. You need lots of know-how and good scientists with experience. Thats something that money cant buy. You need many years of hard effort to get them.

Probably they did not dump enough money in? They need to be more spendthrift and not stingy. LOL..

Originally Posted by kroko

Of course not. You need lots of know-how and good scientists with experience. Thats something that money cant buy. You need many years of hard effort to get them.

Money buys time. They can and will just go on until they get it right. All new aircraft have flaws. That's why testing takes such a lot of time. Think of the Boeing 787 as an extreme example. But if the money runs out you have to stop. Think of the airship program for the British Imperial service that was halted after the accident with R.101. If there had been enough money the UK might have had half a dozen airships carrying reconnaissance aircraft and radar at the beginning of WWII and hunting of the Graf Von Spee would have been a lot easier.

China-Made MA60 Aircraft Fly 200 Routes

Chinese-made MA60 aircraft are flying 200 routes globally and their total flight hours have exceeded 150,000 hours, the aircraft's manufacturer said Sunday.

Thus far, more than 20 global customers have bought over 70 MA60 turboprop aircraft made by the Xi'an Aircraft Industry Company (XAC), the manufacturer said.

The first overseas order for MA60 came in 2005 when Zimbabwe signed a deal with XAC to purchase two MA60 aircraft.

Southeast Asia has become the vital market for the turboprop airliners. The MA60 aircraft exported to Laos, Indonesia, the Philippines and Myanmar remain in good condition and safe to fly, the manufacturer said.

In May 2012, XAC and Ukrainian Mars RK signed a purchase contract for three MA60 aircraft, the first time for it to be sold to a European customer.

Originally Posted by Lion

Probably they did not dump enough money in? They need to be more spendthrift and not stingy. LOL..

China right now has an over-supply of funds. What it needs is better management of its personnel, workflow and use of funds. Right now Chinese companies and corporations waste too much money on useless grounds. Another problem is the engineers and experts don't rely on protocols, rather relying on personal preferences and workflow. This is indeed quicker, but lead to more mistakes and less integration with the team.

I was Germany for some time, being an Italian, it really shocked me how cold and unflexible the German engineers are. Italians, as we all know, don't like to follow rules. But in Germany, I was surprised how German engineers spend days on a simple problem. They literally tackled the problem like a child learning algebra, applying the full formula and treat the equation the way their teacher taught them. This indeed was slow, but the blueprint could be easily understood by everyone. The most important of all, there were no mistakes at all. When I tackled a problem, I didn't follow the protocol and just free-styled. I did the whole thing in less than 30 minutes, which tool them 3 days. They thought I was a mad genius..... However..... embarrassingly I have to admit, the result was no where near the German quality.

Since I grew up in China, I noticed the Chinese culture is even more "loose" than the Italians. This is partially a good thing, but at the same time, not so great for modern engineering world that requires substantial collaborations between countless people.

Originally Posted by Vini_Vidi_Vici

China right now has an over-supply of funds. What it needs is better management of its personnel, workflow and use of funds. Right now Chinese companies and corporations waste too much money on useless grounds. Another problem is the engineers and experts don't rely on protocols, rather relying on personal preferences and workflow. This is indeed quicker, but lead to more mistakes and less integration with the team.

I was Germany for some time, being an Italian, it really shocked me how cold and unflexible the German engineers are. Italians, as we all know, don't like to follow rules. But in Germany, I was surprised how German engineers spend days on a simple problem. They literally tackled the problem like a child learning algebra, applying the full formula and treat the equation the way their teacher taught them. This indeed was slow, but the blueprint could be easily understood by everyone. The most important of all, there were no mistakes at all. When I tackled a problem, I didn't follow the protocol and just free-styled. I did the whole thing in less than 30 minutes, which tool them 3 days. They thought I was a mad genius..... However..... embarrassingly I have to admit, the result was no where near the German quality.

Since I grew up in China, I noticed the Chinese culture is even more "loose" than the Italians. This is partially a good thing, but at the same time, not so great for modern engineering world that requires substantial collaborations between countless people.

I agree. China has right now a lot of money. But it is very inefficient.

Originally Posted by Vini_Vidi_Vici

China right now has an over-supply of funds.

Are you sure about that sentence? Don't talk rot. Oversupply of funds? CCP always has strict control of funds for all project and frugal about overspending. Frugal and cost saving are always the protocol drill in their workforce culture. Look at the space project and see how much their budget compare to NASA.

If your sentence is right, PLA by now has already dump all Type-59 tank and deploy thousands Typ99A2 and project like Type96G will never exist.

There is reason why China product is the best value for money which many countries can't match. Their way of cost saving sometime is very efficient compare to others. The 3 trillion foreign reserve will never exist if overspending is in CCP culture.

XAIC May Benefit from Regional Turboprop Boom

The next decade will be prime years for regional turboprop aircraft, which presents great opportunities for China Aviation Industry Corporation(AVIC)'s subsidiary Xi'an Aircraft International Corporation (XAIC) to explore broader markets. Currently, XAIC is accelerating its research and production on new regional turboprop aircraft, Chen Fusheng, vice-general manager of AVIC said on the 4th Annual China Commercial Aircraft Forum 2012 held on June 14.

Chen pointed out that high fuel prices and carbon emission have further stimulated demands for turboprop aircraft in aviation industry. Actually, the amount of delivered turboprop aircraft has accounted for 50% of regional jets in the past five years.

Chen predicted that, there will come the next new prime period for the development of regional turboprop aircraft around 2017, for airlines need new aircraft to meet increasing market demand. And in the next two decades, 3,000 turboprop aircraft or so are estimated to be delivered around the world, among which 70-seat turboprop will be the mainstream of the market with a delivery amount of 2,465.

XAIC mainly engages in production and sales of regional turboprop aircraft and MA60 series aircraft is its main product. XAIC targets for claiming 40% quotient in the global market of regional turboprop aircraft by 2018.

Chen also added that, MA60 series entered international market in 2005; and now, 72 MA60s have been operated on more than 200 international and domestic routes. Moreover, XAIC plans to sign a new purchase contract with Okay Airways Company Limited for MA60 aircraft.

It is learned that the list price is around 90 million yuan for a MA60 aircraft and about 110 million yuan for a MA600 aircraft.

Chen further disclosed that apart from MA60 and MA600, XAIV is exploiting new regional turboprop aircraft - MA700, which is expected to have its first flight in 2015 and to be delivered to customers in 2017.